Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet

Lozze

This thread didn't seem to be started to attack Paleo. It was to find out why its the 'best' diet (which is often claimed by Paleo eaters on here. it asked for scientific studies. Instead the Paleo eaters have come in and cried that no-one takes them seriously, that Paleo is the best diet for the majority of humanity and once again used sntecdotal evidence to 'prove' this.

If you try Paleo and find it works FANTASTIC! I hope you keep it up. But if you're going to claim that carbs make us fat and that grains are the devil then simply put BACK IT UP. Scientific studies proving this. Not 'I felt better' If you're going to tell others it's the best diet you need to back it up. Because it is restrictive and hard to follow. I'd rather a person do basic calorie counting and keep it up then attempt Paleo, because it's the best, fail and give up all together.

Acg67

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfbkUT0Qx2Q

PaleoPath4Lyfe

My problem with Paleo..Are the people who claim it is their "lifestyle"..Well its not if you have a cheat day..Did the Paleo people say Ahh hell with deer tonight lets order a pizza..hello cheat day!

And Paleo has turned into this whole evolution of what is happening to gluten free. People are taking their **** food and making it "paleo". There are blogs, recipes, and foods now turned Paleo. Just google donuts Paleo and you'll be amassed in recipes and ideas to make donuts Paleo..A donut is still a donut. Then we have Primal..and I only eat Paleo 70% or 85%..Again thats CRAP.

I am gluten and dairy free. Not by my choice!!! I cant have "cheat day". This is my way of life. Is it "healthy"..Well yes and no depending on what you do with it. The Paleo and gF craze are actually killing me. Resturants use to take me seriously..Now I get eye rolling and questions on how my cross fit is going..Umm..I dont do cross fit and gluten actually KILLS me. I can eat the hell out legumes and bring on rice..and corn..And in fact I probably ate "healthier" GF years ago before I could find GF cookies and GF bread on every grocery shelf. Just bc its GF and DF does not mean its not still filled with CRAP. So I was probably fat but ate better years ago. I now just eat less but more "crap" since its so readily avaialble. My bread maker collects dust and instead of choosing salads or rolling chicken in lettuce I now have buns, waffles and bread...**** **** ****..

I loved the beginning post. However what needs to actually be clarified is "what is healthy"? Just bc your skinny does not mean your healthy. Just bc you have a 6 pack abs does not mean your healthy. Most adults havent had physicals in years yet deem themselves healthy just bc they lost some pounds or gained some muscle. And what about mental health?
And again just bc someone is eating paleo doesnt meant its "healthy". There are recipes for apples wrapped in bacon..Really..thats healthy.

And who the hell said Paelo cant/shouldnt count calories? Have you logged some of those recipes? I made a Paleo carrot souffle. Holy **** 1 serving (which was nothing ) had 300 cals alone..as a side item....You still have to count calories. If your cooking with coconut oil and coconut flour the calories are HUGE. Now if your eating a predominatley raw paleo diet then no you probably dont..but again the "type" of Paelo eating would need to be clarified. But its not.

And why Paleo times? Why are they the healthiest time? They were the time before smog, steriods, antibiotics, super foods and mass production of food. But unforunatley we dont live like that. We are surrounded by all the above and some of us more then others. There are few of us that have availability to farms or time for pick ups. Farmers Markets are so big now that we actually had a stand here get busted for buying their food at Costco and selling it at their stands. Everywhere we turn something else is polluted, bad for us etc etc..

So no I dont believe Paleo is all that great. If it makes someone stop eating twinkies all day and makes them eat more vegetables then of course thats GREAT. But there is no difference in that approach then Richard Simmons Deal a Meal

Not everyone has cheat days and such when they transition over to the Paleo Lifestyle. I had 1 bagel last week to be nice and considerate to the instructor that brought them in (people that live around me seem to think it is rude to turn down food) and I am still achy in my joints this week.

I need to learn a lesson and just tell people NO even if it hurts their feelings and such.

Most people that I know that are living the Paleo lifestyle live simply and cook simply also, including myself. It is easiest to stick to mainly fat, protein and vegetables and if I want something sweet I will eat a piece of fruit.

I am like you (and I know many others that feel the same way) in that the gluten free products are taking it to a level it should have never went.

I choose NOT to partake in any of these products. I even make my own pemmican and jerky because there is so much crap in the store bought stuff.

I live the lifestyle outside of my way of eating too. I no longer use commercial cleaning products (except for dish washing liquid), make my own cleaning supplies, use soap nuts for washing clothes and cleaning too, make my own toothpaste, deodorant and I no longer use shampoo either.

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

I believe the Paleo lifestyle can be very positive, especially if it makes people eat more natural foods and ditch the processed stuff. I don't agree with the whole making of products conducive to the lifestyle though.

It is supposed to be simple and that is what I liked about it when I started transitioning over from the Atkins lifestyle.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

The reality is most people are told they are overweight/obese because they are gluttonous and eat too much, so they never find out that they might have intolerance to gluten or to carbs in general. I suspect that as things progress, we will find more and more people are negatively affected by eating grains. Much more than some tiny insignificant percentage of the population.

I love how you make things up.

I don't believe he is making anything up. I believe that more people are affected by grains and dairy especially more than is known.

There are people that have symptoms of grain and dairy intolerances that gets passed off as other ailments so the exact numbers are not known.

ArroganceInStep

Not everyone has cheat days and such when they transition over to the Paleo Lifestyle. I had 1 bagel last week to be nice and considerate to the instructor that brought them in (people that live around me seem to think it is rude to turn down food) and I am still achy in my joints this week.

I need to learn a lesson and just tell people NO even if it hurts their feelings and such.

Most people that I know that are living the Paleo lifestyle live simply and cook simply also, including myself. It is easiest to stick to mainly fat, protein and vegetables and if I want something sweet I will eat a piece of fruit.

I am like you (and I know many others that feel the same way) in that the gluten free products are taking it to a level it should have never went.

I choose NOT to partake in any of these products. I even make my own pemmican and jerky because there is so much crap in the store bought stuff.

I live the lifestyle outside of my way of eating too. I no longer use commercial cleaning products (except for dish washing liquid), make my own cleaning supplies, use soap nuts for washing clothes and cleaning too, make my own toothpaste, deodorant and I no longer use shampoo either.

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

I believe the Paleo lifestyle can be very positive, especially if it makes people eat more natural foods and ditch the processed stuff. I don't agree with the whole making of products conducive to the lifestyle though.

It is supposed to be simple and that is what I liked about it when I started transitioning over from the Atkins lifestyle.

You have every right to live the lifestyle that suits you, and if it works for you that's great. The question that was asked was for studies regarding your chosen lifestyle. In my particular case, I would need to see such research before even considering changing my current eating habits to align with the Paleo paradigm. The question isn't if your lifestyle is 'bad', it's if there is proof that my lifestyle is 'bad'.

Furthermore, I find your stance on foods that I eat on a regular basis to be extremely condescending. I can eat those things and do just fine. I am currently losing weight very steadily, and my last checkup showed substantial improvement over this time last year. If you don't want to eat pizza or bacon, that's fine; more for me. But if you're going to get up in arms about perceived slights to your diet (when I really don't think anyone was speaking that negatively about it in the first place), I really think you should reconsider how you talk about the diets of other folks.

Finally, speculation on statistics really isn't an argument. Even if you happen to think it's true, you really do need to prove your assumption. Otherwise it is, fundamentally, made up. I believe that more people are affected by [insecurity of my awesomeness] especially more than is known. There are people that have symptoms of [insecurity of my awesomeness] that gets passed off as other ailments so the exact numbers are not known.

grinch031

The reality is most people are told they are overweight/obese because they are gluttonous and eat too much, so they never find out that they might have intolerance to gluten or to carbs in general. I suspect that as things progress, we will find more and more people are negatively affected by eating grains. Much more than some tiny insignificant percentage of the population.

So how about those of us that were never obese or overweight, and/or became a healthier weight while all the while eating those gluten or carbs? The largest I ever was, was about 10 pounds over a healthy weight for my height, and that was due to nothing more than eating more than I was burning.

I fully agree that those whose bodies don't process carbs or gluten properly should avoid them. But I see no reason to avoid them when my body does process them just fine.

Or in other words... everyone should eat what they do best eating. I'm a total snob when it comes to pet foods, and buy my gang high-end stuff. One might argue that they eat better than I do. But my Mom's cat would turn her little pink nose up at anything that was supposed to be "good for her, and lived 18 long, healthy, happy years eating the cheapest, no-name, grocery-store-brand "garbage" food there was.

If someone can eat as much gluten or carbs in general as they desire and not gain weight or have adverse health problems, then they have no reason to change their diet. But there are countless people, especially on this forum who struggle with weight and coincidentally eat alot of gluten / carbs. I think its odd that those people become fat so easily, but people who go paleo or low-carb eat as much as they want without restricting calories and lose weight. Seems like maybe the type of food you eat matters alot more than we think. Weight loss isn't really just about controlling calories, its ultimately about controlling appetite, because appetite controls eating habits.

I do think some people have more issues gaining weight, need to be extra vigilant. But its wrong to say that paleo or low carb folks can eat as much as they want without restricting calories and lose weight. They must have a calorie deficit via their calories in or via calories out - exercise. Eating paleo and low carb probably makes it easier for them to not over-eat and lose weight. They feel more satisfied and not constantly hungry.

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

LorinaLynn

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

Funny, then, how I know so many low-carbers who are STILL having a hard time losing weight.

Acg67

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

What about adherence? Did you gloss over that whole thing?

fteale

*Request for scientific evidence verifying the claims that eating like a caveman is necessarily healthier than someone with a comparable diet in terms of macro and micro nutrient intake but using items disallowed on the Paleo diet. It's a reasonable request, asking for evidence of the usefulness of a diet before passing judgement one way or another.

"How dare you state that my diet isn't a good one, I have a wheat intolerance so back the **** off. You should be more sensitive and not so quick to judge the food other people eat as it may be what's best for them...also, the food you eat is garbage"

"I was asking for a study proving the merits of the diet..."

"Well I everyone I know who eats that way is better off, also you should just eat more vegetables as that's the only part of the diet that matters, also you're an idiot"

"But...science...just want to know what research has been done on the subject..."

"Quit JUDGING my diet you *kitten*, also the food you eat is $hite and I'm better than you since I don't consume that crap."

"Fine...**** you too then"








That about right?

That about sums it up.

I had the EXACT same response when I asked for scientific proof drinking 8 glasses of water (as opposed to other liquids) was essential.

ArroganceInStep

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

Because the question wasn't about which diet was easier for people to follow, the question was which diet was nutritionally superior. It's not that it's unimportant, it's just that your claim is impossible to generalize to any meaningful population. You can say it's really easy, but I can point out a population for which the paleo diet is NOT intuitive and isn't 'easy'. The question here is if there is proof that a non-paleo diet is nutritionally inferior.

PJilly

I find myself fascinated by this thread. I don't have much to add to the discussion that hasn't already been said, but I decided to post something to it besides "bump" to get it into my queue.

I take no issue with someone who chooses to follow a Paleo diet, but there is no way on earth I'd ever want to do it.

mjn18

bump

tigersword

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

Why not? Fat, protein, and vegetables all eaten to excess still get stored as fat.

tigersword

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

I very easily overeat on reduced carbs. I usually overeat meat and vegetables more than any grain based carbs. I don't think people can "instinctively eat just the right enough food" on low carb, or paleo. You still need awareness of how much you are eating.

ArroganceInStep

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.

freerange

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

I very easily overeat on reduced carbs. I usually overeat meat and vegetables more than any grain based carbs. I don't think people can "instinctively eat just the right enough food" on low carb, or paleo. You still need awareness of how much you are eating.

You are in the minority then. MOST people find it hard to over eat when on a carb restricted diet, and MOST people find it hard to not over eat on a highly refined carb diet. You can look up the studies yourself, there are plenty of them. That is not to say there are people that are just gluttons and just over eat everything, but MOST are not like you,,,,, when it comes to overeating on a carb restricted diet.

freerange

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.

10000? Really? I would like to see that,,,,,, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are "bending" the truth here.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

Funny, then, how I know so many low-carbers who are STILL having a hard time losing weight.

I am willing to bet that the majority of those "low carbers" are eating shakes, protein bars and such with artifiical ingredients and hidden sugars and are consuming far more carbs than they "perceive" they are.

People that are sticking to the basics of fat, protein and vegetables (in that order) do not have any issues with losing weight and cutting fat at all.

If they are TRULY sticking to the basics and having an issue with losing weight, then they need to make an appointment with a Dr and get a full blood panel done to see what is going on with their adrenal glands, thyroid, etc.

ArroganceInStep

I am willing to bet that the majority of those "low carbers" are eating shakes, protein bars and such with artifiical ingredients and hidden sugars and are consuming far more carbs than they "perceive" they are.

People that are sticking to the basics of fat, protein and vegetables (in that order) do not have any issues with losing weight and cutting fat at all.

If they are TRULY sticking to the basics and having an issue with losing weight, then they need to make an appointment with a Dr and get a full blood panel done to see what is going on with their adrenal glands, thyroid, etc.

I've had my blood work done, all normal, and I can still overeat on this diet. As I said, Brazilian rodizios. All you can eat meat buffet. I ate there regularly when I was in Sao Paulo on business, and gained 30 lbs in 3 months (by the way...it was TOTALLY worth it). There are plenty of scenarios like that. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everybody. Unless it's strictly foods I don't like, I can overeat on just about any diet out there. I have to control my calorie intake no matter what. I'm certain I'm not the only person who thinks the only think better than one steak is ten steaks.

freerange

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.

There are 790 calories in 1 pound of 90/10 ground beef, sooooooo 10000cal would be what over 12lb of beef. but you would only need a little less than 7 pounds of french fries to = 10000cals, so it's pretty clear it's much easier to over eat on a high carb diet than a low carb diet. Thus endeth the lesson for the day, carry on children.

ArroganceInStep

10000? Really? I would like to see that,,,,,, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are "bending" the truth here.

It's a 2 - 4 hour meal.

http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/generic/picanha/

And that's on the lean side compared to some of the other meats (it's my favorite cut though, so it's what I order the most of). I can put down 3 kilos of meat if it's that delicious. I eat a LOT.

Acg67

That is exactly what makes paleo/low carb superior...the idea that they can instinctively eat just the right enough food to create a caloric deficit without even thinking about their calorie intake. I don't know why this is un-important to so many people.

Funny, then, how I know so many low-carbers who are STILL having a hard time losing weight.

I am willing to bet that the majority of those "low carbers" are eating shakes, protein bars and such with artifiical ingredients and hidden sugars and are consuming far more carbs than they "perceive" they are.

People that are sticking to the basics of fat, protein and vegetables (in that order) do not have any issues with losing weight and cutting fat at all.

If they are TRULY sticking to the basics and having an issue with losing weight, then they need to make an appointment with a Dr and get a full blood panel done to see what is going on with their adrenal glands, thyroid, etc.

Hold protein and cals constant and it doesn't matter if you high fat or low fat, fat loss will be the same

ArroganceInStep

There are 790 calories in 1 pound of 90/10 ground beef, sooooooo 10000cal would be what over 12lb of beef. but you would only need a little less than 7 pounds of french fries to = 10000cals, so it's pretty clear it's much easier to over eat on a high carb diet than a low carb diet. Thus endeth the lesson for the day, carry on children.

Meat at rodizio's isn't 90/10 and it certainly isn't hamburger chuck. Not even close.

Acg67

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.

There are 790 calories in 1 pound of 90/10 ground beef, sooooooo 10000cal would be what over 12lb of beef. but you would only need a little less than 7 pounds of french fries to = 10000cals, so it's pretty clear it's much easier to over eat on a high carb diet than a low carb diet. Thus endeth the lesson for the day, carry on children.

Annnnnnnd the low carb idiocy begins

iqnas

LOL.

ArroganceInStep

I don't believe in counting calories though. If your eating plan is fat, protein and vegetables, there is really no need to count calories.

You need to go to a Brazilian rodizio, I can hit 10,000 calories in one sitting on just fat and protein.

There are 790 calories in 1 pound of 90/10 ground beef, sooooooo 10000cal would be what over 12lb of beef. but you would only need a little less than 7 pounds of french fries to = 10000cals, so it's pretty clear it's much easier to over eat on a high carb diet than a low carb diet. Thus endeth the lesson for the day, carry on children.

Annnnnnnd the low carb idiocy begins

You can eat olive oil and nuts on Paleo, you're allowed to have vitamin zero water on non-Paleo. It's a lot easier to hit 10,000 cals on nuts covered in oil than it is on with the vitamin water.

QED

Cause that works right?

hope516

Let's talk like cavemen!

Oooga booga ugh!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I am sure that is the civilized discussion he was looking for

PJilly

But how many pounds of boiled potatoes would you have to eat to reach 10,000 calories? :bigsmile:

treetop57

I'd object to the word "idiocy" if the condescending person in question hadn't called us all "children."

freerange

10000? Really? I would like to see that,,,,,, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are "bending" the truth here.

It's a 2 - 4 hour meal.

http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/generic/picanha/

And that's on the lean side compared to some of the other meats (it's my favorite cut though, so it's what I order the most of). I can put down 3 kilos of meat if it's that delicious. I eat a LOT.

Ok so that's about 1000 per pound, still that's ten pounds, I would go out on a limb again and be willing to bet a sizable sum you cannot eat 10 pounds of meat in one 2 hour meal.