Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet

ElPumaMex

Well, found this with some Googling.

**University of California San Francisco School of Medicine**
Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185?dopt=Abstract


Published Research
http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research

If you're interested, the full study is here

www.yaboga.com/paleo-metabolic.pdf

and while it is an interesting study

Nutrient comparisons between paleolithic and usual diets

The usual diet was obtained from one or two 24-h food
recalls by an experienced research dietician. Comparison
between the usual and Paleo diet intakes and 24-h urine
excretion is shown in Table 1, whereas Table 2 lists the
menus for the actual foods consumed during the metabolic
diet phases of the study. The usual diet had a calculated K/Na
intake ratio of 0.6±0.3 and averaged 18% of calories from
protein, 44% from carbohydrates and 38% from fats. An
analyzed paleolithic diet composite had a K/Na intake ratio
of 4.3 (Po0.0001) and contained 30% of calories from
proteins, 32% from fat (mainly unsaturated) and 38% from
carbohydrates.

I have started to read that study.
Really, really interesting !

Thanks for sharing.

"Meat, fish, poultry, eggs, fruits, vegetables, tree nuts, canola oil, mayonnaise and honey were included in the Ramp and Paleo phases of the diet.
We excluded dairy products, legumes, cereals, grains, potatoes and products containing potassium chloride..."

Not sure I would exclude legumes from my diet (I love beans, etc), but I have no problem to keep my current diet (modern Okinawa / DASH targets for ratios on carbs, protein, fat ) and follow some of what the above plan shows.
I already eat a small qty of cereals and grains, so I would not change that.
I could exclude potatoes, most of dairy I already exclude.

And certainly I could do without food with Potassium Chloride: (from http://www.ehow.com/way_5380427_foods-high-potassium-chloride.html)
"Potassium Chloride in Foods
Potassium chloride is an additive as well. Foods which are high in potassium chloride include artificially sweetened jellies and foods containing carrageenan. Potassium chloride is also used to replace sodium in low sodium foods. As a stabilizer, potassium chloride is found in chocolate milk and other dairy products to keep ingredients suspended."

Although it also seems to be in fruits?? (same source)
"Potassium chloride is readily available in fruits and vegetables. It is also the main ingredient in salt substitutes. Potassium, chloride and sodium are the three electrolyte elements. They are called electrolytes because when they are dissolved in water, they become ions and conduct electricity. Potassium chloride is also a food additive classified in the CODEX Alimentarius that acts as a stabilizer and thickener."

Definitively that would contradict the Paleo (or my diet).

Again thanks, this is "food for thought" :smokin:

tigersword

Why would you eliminate potassium? Required mineral, and people in the US are notoriously deficient in it.

ElPumaMex

Why would you eliminate potassium? Required mineral, and people in the US are notoriously deficient in it.

I think that is a TYPO in the study.
Clearly they introduce large quantities of potassium during their tests, since they feed their subjects a LOT of carrot juice.

So Potassium is ok for them.

The limitations on this study are clearly shown in it.
Nevertheless, it is an interesting one.

Here is an extract:
"Owing to the small sample size of this study one cannot confidently predict that paleolithic diets induce the same metabolic effects in different populations or different subjects.
On the other hand, if our basic hypothesis holds, namely, that humans should be better adapted physiologically to this kind of diet, then we might expect many subjects to improve on this diet, and that is exactly the consistency we saw.
Only large clinical trials among diverse groups can settle the issue.
With this and two other promising studies (Lindeberg et al., 2007; Osterdahl et al., 2007), perhaps we can justify such trials.
A third limitation could be that we did not have a separate group of participants as a control group"

sweet_lotus

Well, found this with some Googling.

**University of California San Francisco School of Medicine**
Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185?dopt=Abstract

Meh. It's nice that they controlled for weight loss, but, it would be more convincing if they put the paleo dieters head to head with vegans (who are known to have low CVD risk factors like those measured in the study) or even people eating a balanced, non processed diet.

Does not answer the Q: is paleo > all other kinds of eating?

fteale

Well, found this with some Googling.

**University of California San Francisco School of Medicine**
Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185?dopt=Abstract

Meh. It's nice that they controlled for weight loss, but, it would be more convincing if they put the paleo dieters head to head with vegans (who are known to have low CVD risk factors like those measured in the study) or even people eating a balanced, non processed diet.

Does not answer the Q: is paleo > all other kinds of eating?

Exactly what I was thinking! I would like to see a paleo vs vegan or strict vegetarian diet. That would get my attention. I am not interested in any study that compares it to the average American diet, as I never have had, and never will have any kind of American diet!

Isolt

Does not answer the Q: is paleo > all other kinds of eating?

I'd simply say that it's better than a diet that's based purely on restricting calories, without any care about what those calories are made up,of. When I look at these boards I seem to see a fair old number of people whose food diaries are made up entirely of pre-packaged food.....and very low in raw ingredients that you could actually cook a meal from scratch with. One diary yesterday, from some woman who was cutting back to what I'd deem starvation rations, had a diary that had heaps of protein grams left over a day, but had sodium waaaaaay in the red. Every single thing was manufactured, processed 'crap'. So I look at a menu like that and think that organic/pasture-fed raw ingredients that you cook from scratch HAS to be better than eating pure junk....but less of it.

Actually, quite a few diaries I've seen make me really depressed because I come away with the impression that some people are simply too bloody lazy to cook *shrug*

Adrenaline_Queen

Love this xxxxxxxxxxxxx I eat paleo........... Only as it works for me........... I have not lost any weight, I put on 1lb, but am happy with how I feel.............

Thank you so much for all this reading xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

almc170

Does not answer the Q: is paleo > all other kinds of eating?

I'd simply say that it's better than a diet that's based purely on restricting calories, without any care about what those calories are made up,of. When I look at these boards I seem to see a fair old number of people whose food diaries are made up entirely of pre-packaged food.....and very low in raw ingredients that you could actually cook a meal from scratch with. One diary yesterday, from some woman who was cutting back to what I'd deem starvation rations, had a diary that had heaps of protein grams left over a day, but had sodium waaaaaay in the red. Every single thing was manufactured, processed 'crap'. So I look at a menu like that and think that organic/pasture-fed raw ingredients that you cook from scratch HAS to be better than eating pure junk....but less of it.

Actually, quite a few diaries I've seen make me really depressed because I come away with the impression that some people are simply too bloody lazy to cook *shrug*

Or perhaps they work full time, juggle childcare responsibilities, travel extensively, care for an elderly parent, etc. Or maybe they are on a strict budget and can't afford "organic/pasture-fed raw ingredients." Quite simply, you can't infer anything about an individual's character from a freakin' food diary posted to a public website.

PJilly

Does not answer the Q: is paleo > all other kinds of eating?

I'd simply say that it's better than a diet that's based purely on restricting calories, without any care about what those calories are made up,of. When I look at these boards I seem to see a fair old number of people whose food diaries are made up entirely of pre-packaged food.....and very low in raw ingredients that you could actually cook a meal from scratch with. One diary yesterday, from some woman who was cutting back to what I'd deem starvation rations, had a diary that had heaps of protein grams left over a day, but had sodium waaaaaay in the red. Every single thing was manufactured, processed 'crap'. So I look at a menu like that and think that organic/pasture-fed raw ingredients that you cook from scratch HAS to be better than eating pure junk....but less of it.

Actually, quite a few diaries I've seen make me really depressed because I come away with the impression that some people are simply too bloody lazy to cook *shrug*

Any thoughtful diet is likely to be better than one based on not caring what your calories are made up of.

freerange

And if you did the research, about 50% of ad lib studies do show greater fat loss on low carb diets, but 50% do not. Then take a look at calories being tightly controlled and the vast majority show no difference in fat loss. So in your opinion what does the current body of evidence point towards that there is a metabolic advantage or there is not?

In my opinion it's a fools errand to argue with someone that has their mind made up. It's also a fool that believes anything put out by the latest "study", I find much comfort in listening to people who have actually done what it is I want to do, I find even more comfort in testing what others have done with my own diet. If you don't want to listen to the THOUSANDS of people who have changed their diet to more closely relate to the "paleo" diet, that is on you, if you are so marrow minded that you have to have a study done for years, by FDA approved method, have fun. We will enjoy optimal health, of both mind and body, while you search out the latest "study"

Night kids it's time for for bed.

tigersword

Thousands of people that live paleo, compared to the BILLIONS that don't and are healthy. Yeah, you might want to rethink that argument.

Acg67

And if you did the research, about 50% of ad lib studies do show greater fat loss on low carb diets, but 50% do not. Then take a look at calories being tightly controlled and the vast majority show no difference in fat loss. So in your opinion what does the current body of evidence point towards that there is a metabolic advantage or there is not?

In my opinion it's a fools errand to argue with someone that has their mind made up. It's also a fool that believes anything put out by the latest "study", I find much comfort in listening to people who have actually done what it is I want to do, I find even more comfort in testing what others have done with my own diet. If you don't want to listen to the THOUSANDS of people who have changed their diet to more closely relate to the "paleo" diet, that is on you, if you are so marrow minded that you have to have a study done for years, by FDA approved method, have fun. We will enjoy optimal health, of both mind and body, while you search out the latest "study"

Night kids it's time for for bed.

And that was what this post was about, what backing does the claim that the Paleo diet is the diet for optimal health actually have? Obviously when you say mind and body, the Paleo diet does nothing for reading comprehension.

Who is the one that had their mind already made up? You want to believe that fat loss is greater on low carb diets so you just ignored my rebuttal to your assertion that there are "some" studies that do in fact show that.

AntWrig

And if you did the research, about 50% of ad lib studies do show greater fat loss on low carb diets, but 50% do not. Then take a look at calories being tightly controlled and the vast majority show no difference in fat loss. So in your opinion what does the current body of evidence point towards that there is a metabolic advantage or there is not?

In my opinion it's a fools errand to argue with someone that has their mind made up. It's also a fool that believes anything put out by the latest "study", I find much comfort in listening to people who have actually done what it is I want to do, I find even more comfort in testing what others have done with my own diet. If you don't want to listen to the THOUSANDS of people who have changed their diet to more closely relate to the "paleo" diet, that is on you, if you are so marrow minded that you have to have a study done for years, by FDA approved method, have fun. We will enjoy optimal health, of both mind and body, while you search out the latest "study"

Night kids it's time for for bed.

You're the one who is very narrow minded.

I direct you to your own very comments...

It's also a fool that believes anything put out by the latest "study", I find much comfort in listening to people who have actually done what it is I want to do, I find even more comfort in testing what others have done with my own diet.

And this...

If you don't want to listen to the THOUSANDS of people who have changed their diet to more closely relate to the "paleo" diet, that is on you, if you are so marrow minded that you have to have a study done for years, by FDA approved method, have fun. We will enjoy optimal health, of both mind and body, while you search out the latest "study"

Once again, how is eating Paleo any better than a traditional diet?

And I don't care about how others "changed" their diets. I changed my diet too, but I am not touting that a high carb and a high protein intake will save the world.

suziecue66

What's better - a paleo diet or vegan?

tigersword

I find it humorous that the narrow minded Paleo people (not all of them, just the narrow minded ones) love to talk about how the Paleo diet is superior, and go on and on about this ONE diet, like there was only one type of diet eaten by humans during the Paleolithic Era. There were probably hundreds of thousands of different "paleo diets," based on geographic location, time of year, specific period of the Era, etc. How do you decide which one was the best? It's not like the Paleolithic spans over 2.5 million years or anything...

The dirty secret is that the Paleo diet is just a diet made up by some guy, and it's all marketing.

It's not a bad diet, but it's Got nothing to do with Paleo anything.

albinogorilla

I'm still perplexed why people want to follow a "diet" whose practitioners barely ever survived into their 30's. . . . . .

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Well, found this with some Googling.

**University of California San Francisco School of Medicine**
Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185?dopt=Abstract


Published Research
http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research

If you're interested, the full study is here

www.yaboga.com/paleo-metabolic.pdf

and while it is an interesting study

Nutrient comparisons between paleolithic and usual diets

The usual diet was obtained from one or two 24-h food
recalls by an experienced research dietician. Comparison
between the usual and Paleo diet intakes and 24-h urine
excretion is shown in Table 1, whereas Table 2 lists the
menus for the actual foods consumed during the metabolic
diet phases of the study. The usual diet had a calculated K/Na
intake ratio of 0.6±0.3 and averaged 18% of calories from
protein, 44% from carbohydrates and 38% from fats. An
analyzed paleolithic diet composite had a K/Na intake ratio
of 4.3 (Po0.0001) and contained 30% of calories from
proteins, 32% from fat (mainly unsaturated) and 38% from
carbohydrates.

I have started to read that study.
Really, really interesting !

Thanks for sharing.

"Meat, fish, poultry, eggs, fruits, vegetables, tree nuts, canola oil, mayonnaise and honey were included in the Ramp and Paleo phases of the diet.
We excluded dairy products, legumes, cereals, grains, potatoes and products containing potassium chloride..."

Not sure I would exclude legumes from my diet (I love beans, etc), but I have no problem to keep my current diet (modern Okinawa / DASH targets for ratios on carbs, protein, fat ) and follow some of what the above plan shows.
I already eat a small qty of cereals and grains, so I would not change that.
I could exclude potatoes, most of dairy I already exclude.

And certainly I could do without food with Potassium Chloride: (from http://www.ehow.com/way_5380427_foods-high-potassium-chloride.html)
"Potassium Chloride in Foods
Potassium chloride is an additive as well. Foods which are high in potassium chloride include artificially sweetened jellies and foods containing carrageenan. Potassium chloride is also used to replace sodium in low sodium foods. As a stabilizer, potassium chloride is found in chocolate milk and other dairy products to keep ingredients suspended."

Although it also seems to be in fruits?? (same source)
"Potassium chloride is readily available in fruits and vegetables. It is also the main ingredient in salt substitutes. Potassium, chloride and sodium are the three electrolyte elements. They are called electrolytes because when they are dissolved in water, they become ions and conduct electricity. Potassium chloride is also a food additive classified in the CODEX Alimentarius that acts as a stabilizer and thickener."

Definitively that would contradict the Paleo (or my diet).

Again thanks, this is "food for thought" :smokin:

There study is flawed in the fact that Canola Oil is used and with Paleo philosophy that I have read says to ditch the liquid vegetable oils due to the O3:O6 ratio being skewed.

If they are going to do the studies, they will have to include the foods that are natural and Canola oil is a very highly processed oil.

This is why I don't trust these "so-called" studies and such. Most times they are setting out to seek a result they want to see or want to dismiss.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I'm still perplexed why people want to follow a "diet" whose practitioners barely ever survived into their 30's. . . . . .

This is actually not true. There is a lot of evidence that says that many Paleolithic people lived to old ages, up to 80 and 90 years old.

The reason the "average" age is such is due to high infant mortality, females dying during child birth, young men that died in battle (war) and other injuries.

There is a huge research article written by a Paleontologist that I thought I saved from a while back where he went into great detail on some of his findings. I have not been able to find the article again and I guess I didn't save it because it is not in the folder in my favorites.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I find it humorous that the narrow minded Paleo people (not all of them, just the narrow minded ones) love to talk about how the Paleo diet is superior, and go on and on about this ONE diet, like there was only one type of diet eaten by humans during the Paleolithic Era. There were probably hundreds of thousands of different "paleo diets," based on geographic location, time of year, specific period of the Era, etc. How do you decide which one was the best? It's not like the Paleolithic spans over 2.5 million years or anything...

The dirty secret is that the Paleo diet is just a diet made up by some guy, and it's all marketing.

It's not a bad diet, but it's Got nothing to do with Paleo anything.

The Paleo lifestyle is a fancy way of saying Eat clean, natural foods - that is all. There are probably not 2 people that eat exactly alike.........

In my Paleo Facebook group there is a woman that only eats raw ruminant meats, eggs and starches such as sweet potatoes. She is pretty anal about her eating. This is what works for her. Even though pictures of her meals with raw hamburger and a baked sweet potato do not look apetitizing to me.

There are others that do a lot of baking and re-creating traditional muffins, cookies, cakes, etc in a so-called Paleo manner.

There are some in my group that eat NO grains whatsoever. There are others that eat white rice as it has been deemed a "safe" starch..

Some people include a lot of dairy, some just a bit and then there are others that eat no dairy at all.

I eat pretty boring and simple, but it works for me. I stick to eating fats (mostly coconut oil and grass fed butter), eggs, grass fed beef, pastured pork, very little chicken and I do eat a lot of green vegetables. I eat minimal fruit and nuts. I also have some raw, local honey - which many say is not Paleo, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't find honey from time to time.


Paleo isn't a set plan...............it is more of a template for people to experiment and find what works for their bodies. The meal plans vary greatly from person to person.

Acg67