Meat and early mortality

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  • RoanneRed
    RoanneRed Posts: 429 Member
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    Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-27840
  • Kelekat
    Kelekat Posts: 174 Member
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    Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
    This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
    Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........
    Read your quote. It says thousands.

    "And maybe even millions"

    suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.

    Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.

    Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.

    And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....

    "Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.

    However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.

    Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......

    Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."
  • Ericacea
    Ericacea Posts: 45
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    Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

    This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

    Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.
  • Isolt
    Isolt Posts: 70
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    Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.


    To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.

    Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.


    That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)
  • sarahgilmore
    sarahgilmore Posts: 572 Member
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    Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.


    To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.

    Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.


    That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)

    I think I love you
  • thankyou4thevenom
    thankyou4thevenom Posts: 1,581 Member
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    You can have my bacon when you take it out of my cold dead hands.

    Which according to this study is sooner than I'd like. :laugh:
  • thankyou4thevenom
    thankyou4thevenom Posts: 1,581 Member
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    Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.


    To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.

    Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.


    That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)

    *like*
  • Kelekat
    Kelekat Posts: 174 Member
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    Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

    This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

    Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.

    What do you think of the "Expensive Tissue Hypothesis"? Oh wait...maybe that's a topic for another forum :bigsmile:
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
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    Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-27840

    EXCELLENT article.

    That study that was posted yesterday is a huge statistical mess, the conclusions of which were loose at best.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
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    Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-27840

    EXCELLENT article.

    That study that was posted yesterday is a huge statistical mess, the conclusions of which were loose at best.

    Why do you think that, Elizabeth? It looked like some pretty tight research to me, albeit not prospective and randomized from the outset.
  • Kenzietea2
    Kenzietea2 Posts: 1,132 Member
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    Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
    This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
    Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........
    Read your quote. It says thousands.

    "And maybe even millions"

    suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.

    Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.

    Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.

    And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....

    "Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.

    However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.

    Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......

    Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."

    No, not technically speaking.
    the human species, or homo sapien, has not been around for millions of years. A scavenger human LIKE species (according to the article you posted) has been around longer.

    I wasn't arguing for or against eating meat, so can you stop jumping down my throat. Humans have not been around for millions of years, and it was clearly said out of ignorance- not referring to a scavenger human-like creature.
  • Kenzietea2
    Kenzietea2 Posts: 1,132 Member
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    Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

    This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

    Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.

    Thank you!
  • sunkisses
    sunkisses Posts: 2,365 Member
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    If loving you is wrong...
    img_entrees_filet_wine.jpg
  • jessie1480
    jessie1480 Posts: 132 Member
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    And I would like to remind the " better than thou vegetarians" that if you are not meticulous about the fruits and veggies that you buy the chemicals and genetic mutation in your veggies can be just as harmful.

    Wouldn't this be an issue for anyone who eats fruits and veggies, vegetarian or omnivore?

    This is a point for any one who consumes anything bought at the grocrie store. I think the bigger point was not to use how horrible lying in a hospitol bed to scare people away from meat. There are alot of factors that can lead to cancer heart attack and stroke, and if some one is going to use a dooms day tactic then they need to realize all of the factors that can get you there.
  • 1WorkoutAtATime
    1WorkoutAtATime Posts: 719
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    The problem with studies like this are
    1. Dietary intake is self-reported. This method is notoriously inaccurate
    2. Despite the methods of statistical analysis it's impossible to definitively show causation

    While I don't think studies of this nature should be completely dismissed, I think they're best used as hypothesis generating, rather than a basis on which to make sweeping conclusions.

    Since vegetarians are more likely to be "health conscious" than the average person, I would be interested to see studies comparing vegetarian diets to "health conscious" meat eaters.


    good point
  • FRGHTRAIN
    FRGHTRAIN Posts: 12
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    Might check your facts on Pandas. I have never seen a cow eat a chicken or a giraffe eat a kangaroo ....... Just sayin'
  • FRGHTRAIN
    FRGHTRAIN Posts: 12
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    You need to find a sense of humor. Wow.. Not eating meat isn't going to save your life if you continue to live it so uptight ...Relax, enjoy a good joke, maybe, just maybe try to smile... However my neighbor got arrested for smiling....
  • FRGHTRAIN
    FRGHTRAIN Posts: 12
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    i wouldn't eat my cat or my boyfriend's dogs, so why would i eat a cow or a pig or a fish?

    I'd eat your cat and your boyfriend's dogs.




    Just sayin'.
    one of my neighbors chopped up his grandmother's dog with a hatchet. come near our animals and you're going to jail.




    just sayin'.
  • FRGHTRAIN
    FRGHTRAIN Posts: 12
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    i wouldn't eat my cat or my boyfriend's dogs, so why would i eat a cow or a pig or a fish?

    I'd eat your cat and your boyfriend's dogs.




    Just sayin'.
    one of my neighbors chopped up his grandmother's dog with a hatchet. come near our animals and you're going to jail.




    just sayin'.
    [/quote


    ]You need to find a sense of humor. Wow.. Not eating meat isn't going to save your life if you continue to live it so uptight ...Relax, enjoy a good joke, maybe, just maybe try to smile... However my neighbor got arrested for smiling....
  • FRGHTRAIN
    FRGHTRAIN Posts: 12
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    I like meat.
    And I like vegetarians. Specially those who don't keep trying to convert you.

    But in my opinion: The only mammal I know that switched to almost strict vegetarian diet.... It's the panda.

    Cute.

    And there's scientists trying HARD to make then reproduce.

    When the species gave up on f... procriate, that means something.

    Ahhh I'm just messin with ya! :)
    Might check your facts on Pandas. I have never seen a cow eat a chicken or a giraffe eat a kangaroo ....... Just sayin'

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