Meat and early mortality

_VoV

This short video explains the results of the meat and early mortality Harvard study that was released yesterday:

http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/harvards-meat-and-mortality-studies/

Please note that even meat-eaters who eat their veggies are at greater risk of cancer, heart disease and strokes than herbivores are. And, to me, it's not so much about how you die, but rather how you live. I want to reduce my risk of debilitating illness, and if that means I live to a ripe old age, so much the better. PLANTS RULE!

dinosnopro

wow.... I love propaganda. I took a stroll around the whole site, it seems just a tiny bit biased. do you have a link to the whole study in print, not just a video taking the parts that further a certain agenda.

UponThisRock

The problem with studies like this are
1. Dietary intake is self-reported. This method is notoriously inaccurate
2. Despite the methods of statistical analysis it's impossible to definitively show causation

While I don't think studies of this nature should be completely dismissed, I think they're best used as hypothesis generating, rather than a basis on which to make sweeping conclusions.

Since vegetarians are more likely to be "health conscious" than the average person, I would be interested to see studies comparing vegetarian diets to "health conscious" meat eaters.

sundancer1966

This is very informative, thanks for posting it. :happy:

rebecca_d35

wow.... I love propaganda. I took a stroll around the whole site, it seems just a tiny bit biased. do you have a link to the whole study in print, not just a video taking the parts that further a certain agenda.

Here's the study:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/archinternmed.2011.2287

I'm just passing it on; I'm not a vegetarian, though I think it's probably a good thing to be.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

bigdawg025

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

ncahill77

The study also notes that most red meat eaters tend to be people who indulge in copious amounts of fast food, soda's, alcohol and lack of exercising, but I'm sure none of that plays into the findings.

dma1988

Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.

_VoV

This is a huge study, and I agree that dietary recall for the purposes of study is notoriously unreliable, but it's all we've got.

I worked as a medical librarian for 20 years, but don't have ready access to the full-text of that study online. But, I may go to the medical library at our state university to track it down in hard copy.

Addendum: I noticed someone further down found the full-text online. Thank you!

PaleoPath4Lyfe

The study also notes that most red meat eaters tend to be people who indulge in copious amounts of fast food, soda's, alcohol and lack of exercising, but I'm sure none of that plays into the findings.

Exactly. I am sure the study did not include those individuals that eat grass fed red meat, but rather the CAFO grain fed stuff.

JPod279

I always look at the stats from studies with some skepticism and look at who is behind the study. The global warming/climate change/whatever they want to call it this week to fit their agenda people will never publish a study saying anything other than what they want it to say. Same for the other side.

Besides, stats can be made to say anything. 40% of all people know that.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.

The physical evidence and findings does not point to that though.

SilentRenegade

Plenty of people in my family lived until their late 90s eating meat everyday. Each person will react to foods differently. Personally I cannot have a lot of carbs or my liver gets messed up. I also can't have gluten. Therefore, I refuse to also take meat out of my diet. Meat and veggies are delicious together.

I have no issues with a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle (a very good friend of mine is vegan), I just don't like feeling pushed into other ways of eating through fear tactics.

delilah47

I believe... when studies like this are performed, they are looking for a specific outcome. Only the data pertinent to the specific outcome is collected. Someone could do a study on how beef benefits the body and make the results look like beef is essential to take your next breath.

I didn't read the entire study, but a 12 year study with people filling out a questionnaire every 4 years doesn't sound very controlled/accurate to me.

Bentley2718

Someone needs to learn the difference between "multiple regression" and "multivariate regression."

Bentley2718

wow.... I love propaganda. I took a stroll around the whole site, it seems just a tiny bit biased. do you have a link to the whole study in print, not just a video taking the parts that further a certain agenda.

I found the whole study in print rather easily using google. And I just read it. The authors were quite thorough.

Bikini27

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

At least you'll be pretty in your casket :flowerforyou:

marywanoKC

The study also notes that most red meat eaters tend to be people who indulge in copious amounts of fast food, soda's, alcohol and lack of exercising, but I'm sure none of that plays into the findings.

*chuckle* I've never been much of a soda or alcohol drinker, but there's little I like more than a well-prepared steak.

Yolanda_85

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

Agreed!! Mmmm...steak! Make mine medium rare please!! Just wanted to add, I don't drink soda at all, very rarely drink alcohol, and Subway is the only fast food place I'd gladly frequent!

_VoV

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

Bentley2718

I believe... when studies like this are performed, they are looking for a specific outcome. Only the data pertinent to the specific outcome is collected. Someone could do a study on how beef benefits the body and make the results look like beef is essential to take your next breath.

Believe it or not, most scientists actually want to get the most accurate results possible. I hate this "they were just looking for x" argument.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I always look at the stats from studies with some skepticism and look at who is behind the study. The global warming/climate change/whatever they want to call it this week to fit their agenda people will never publish a study saying anything other than what they want it to say. Same for the other side.

Besides, stats can be made to say anything. 40% of all people know that.

Yes, very true.

Look at what Ancel Keys did back in the 1950's to sway the public that saturated fat is bad. He cherry picked data and largely ignored data that went against his own thinking.

So the outcome was what he wanted it to be when in turn we have found out that saturated fat in deed is not only healthy, but it is completely necessary for the brain, organs and cells to function properly.

The same goes with cholesterol.

ironanimal

Yes, Red Meat can kill. And a few years ago, peanut butter could give you cancer, as can plastic and microwaves. I do wish the vegetarian would come down off it's high horse, slaughter it, cook it and see that life isn't so bad as an omnivore. You never see that being pushed on anyone, and the OMG DONT EAT MEAT scares are a little rediculous.

Bentley2718

The study also notes that most red meat eaters tend to be people who indulge in copious amounts of fast food, soda's, alcohol and lack of exercising, but I'm sure none of that plays into the findings.

They controlled for this using a multiple (not multivariate, grrr!) regression. They could have used matching techniques to make sure they had an area of common support, as a reviewer I might have asked for this analysis, but quite frankly I doubt it would have made a huge difference, since there are fairly wide variations in health habits.

dma1988

Unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.

The physical evidence and findings does not point to that though.

Not in my opinion, but this is ot the place for that debate. I'm just pointing out that we are from all walks of life and backgrounds and opinions. The one thing I notice on this site is a lack of tolerance for other opinions.

At the end of the day, there's a multi-billion dollar industry because A LOT of approaches actually work. You just need to pick one and stick to it.

SilentRenegade

I always look at the stats from studies with some skepticism and look at who is behind the study. The global warming/climate change/whatever they want to call it this week to fit their agenda people will never publish a study saying anything other than what they want it to say. Same for the other side.

Besides, stats can be made to say anything. 40% of all people know that.

Yes, very true.

Look at what Ancel Keys did back in the 1950's to sway the public that saturated fat is bad. He cherry picked data and largely ignored data that went against his own thinking.

So the outcome was what he wanted it to be when in turn we have found out that saturated fat in deed is not only healthy, but it is completely necessary for the brain, organs and cells to function properly.

The same goes with cholesterol.

I tried the low fat, barely any meats deal a few years ago... and was extremely depressed a few days in. I had meat again and felt better... I admit, I eat a much higher protein/fats diet and not many carbs, but I feel really great on that type of diet.

ncahill77

Don't take my comment wrong on the soda's and alcohol, I love red meat. My point was the mortality rate can't be explained by red meat alone as they didn't factor in that many in the study lead unhealthy lifestyles in various ways. full disclosure, i enjoy an occassional soda and any type of acohol.

AvsFreak

http://www.livestrong.com/blog/are-burgers-healthy-why-red-meat-is-not-bad-for-you/

JPod279

Don't get me wrong...I am all for other people being vegan. Leaves more delicious meat for me.

ekz13

in my mind, god, evolution, whatever... look at the facts..

humans have both flat grinding teeth and sharper pointy ones, this suggests omnivore, we need a good BALANCE of both of these..


and beer...lots and lots of beer (which qualifies as both meat and grain... Hops and "pork chop in a can")