Meat and early mortality

ironanimal

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

This study was talking about red meat in particular. Humans probably didn't have access to much red meat prior to domestication of livestock.

Very untrue. Wild game, excluding poultry and fish to my knowledge is all red meat.

_VoV

The topic of the thread is "Meat and early mortality", yet it appears that the study is speaking of red meat (unless I missed something). Kind of misleading...

I'm sorry you found this misleading. I hate when thread titles are cut off, so I kept it short.

yankeedownsouth

I've already had cancer (although I doubt it was from red meat), and it was pretty awful. However, I'm going to continue to eat red meat because I love it. Simple as that.

kateroot

Meh. Everything causes cancer, heart disease, and early mortality these days. Living in fear of every little thing that might hurt you down the road is not really living, IMO.

_VoV

I've already had cancer (although I doubt it was from red meat), and it was pretty awful. However, I'm going to continue to eat red meat because I love it. Simple as that.

You look young to have suffered cancer. I am so sorry you went through that and hope you are cancer-free forever. I am the OP, and I posted this thread for informational purposes. What people choose to do with this information is none of my business. Wishing you the best of health!

_VoV

Meh. Everything causes cancer, heart disease, and early mortality these days. Living in fear of every little thing that might hurt you down the road is not really living, IMO.

When you are young, perhaps these diseases look to be far off in the distance. But when you are my age (57), and many of your friends start showing up in the obits, these killers become harder to ignore. I know older people like me say something like this far too often, but it's true: the years fly by and before you know it, things that seemed impossible--like seeing an old face in the mirror--are daily occurrences.

y353

Yeah yeah, society exists because it forces its opinion on each individual.

Anything out of the rules WILL be persecuted one way or another (if somebody's neigbor killed the dog [cause he is crazy]) or if you paint your hair bright green).

The society is right? Not always. Some cut woman's *kitten*, other make the drinking age 21...

BUT doing something different and HOPE to everything be dandi and everybody accept you as the best there is... sandcastles in the sand.

Be what you want, society will always judge you. (But don't do something illegal like eat somebody's dog... Ok, maybe in Vietnan you can eat a friend's dog. Just ask him first)

I believe that the bigger person is that one who think "Ok, they were raised that way, his/her rules never changed. They think that the truth is absolute, let them be happy."

If your momma or grandpa try to sneak meat in your food respect them for raising you, or their father (and their lifestyle) to raise them to bring you to this day. Do not think they're "evil just to be". They were raised that way.

Teenage rebellion is cute until some point.

Ugh. My english skill sucks. Sorry, second/third linguage.

y353

Meh. Everything causes cancer, heart disease, and early mortality these days. Living in fear of every little thing that might hurt you down the road is not really living, IMO.

What she said!!!

But I add. Everything in excess kills. Water can drown you, just try drink a lake hohoh.

SilentRenegade

My grandmother is 89 years young, She has had eggs and bacon almost everyday of her life for breakfast and has smoked since she was 16. She has the energy and enthusiasm of a 40 year old.

For every study I read I can always find one that contradicts its theory.

I think we are predisposed to some cancers and illness regardless of how healthy of a life style we live.

My family is very similar. Long lived, meat eating smokers. I'm not saying that's the healthiest way to live, I'm just going by what my family has experienced. The only instance of an early death was my grandfather, who smoked 3.5 packs a day, drank a bottle of Wild Turkey Whiskey a day, and was morbidly obese and did not take care of his diabetes. Other than that, they all lived anywhere from their late 80s to late 90s. My one great uncle lived until he was 99 and smoked so much his fingers were yellow. The man also ate foods that many people would think are horrendous. I think a lot of it has to do with genes. Obviously there are risks involved... but I guess they had the attitude to live their lives the way they wanted to and they'd die of something eventually.

neanderthin

Here you go......a different look at the numbers, or should I say, a look that doesn't jump to conclusions so readily.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/03/red-meat-mortality-the-usual-bad-science/

PaleoPath4Lyfe

From what I understand of the study, the reserachers recommend less than 1 pound of red meat per person, per week.

If someone told you (general you, not anyone specific) that it was recommended to eat less than 1 pound of *cake* per person, per week. Everyone would say, "Well of course! Cake is bad for you. Eat in moderation. A little goes a long way!"

But as soon as someone says you should limit your meat intake, people get super defensive about it. "You can take my meat over my cold dead body!"

I wonder why that is... possibly because people understand that red meat isn't *really* good for you in the long run?

My blood work is better now than it has been in years and I feel loads better too and I enjoy chuck, sirloin and ribeyes at least 3 times per week.

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Steak & BJ day

What day is this? Someone tell my wife...I'm taking the day off.

^^:laugh: Must not let husband find out about this day... LOL.

Its TODAY, March 14.

tsh0ck

From what I understand of the study, the reserachers recommend less than 1 pound of red meat per person, per week.

If someone told you (general you, not anyone specific) that it was recommended to eat less than 1 pound of *cake* per person, per week. Everyone would say, "Well of course! Cake is bad for you. Eat in moderation. A little goes a long way!"

But as soon as someone says you should limit your meat intake, people get super defensive about it. "You can take my meat over my cold dead body!"

I wonder why that is... possibly because people understand that red meat isn't *really* good for you in the long run?

My blood work is better now than it has been in years and I feel loads better too and I enjoy chuck, sirloin and ribeyes at least 3 times per week.

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

and there's even been a study!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/525845-meat-and-lower-cholesterol

Lyndi4

Steak & BJ day

What day is this? Someone tell my wife...I'm taking the day off.

^^:laugh: Must not let husband find out about this day... LOL.

Its TODAY, March 14.

As far as he's concerned, it's Pi day & he will get pie.

Don't mean that to come across as rude. I'm totally kidding about the whole thing. Pie, steak (or vegetable substitute), & bj for all. LOL.

darkling_glory

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

I will fully agree with you that there can be some nutritional value from meat.

However? Who is eating grass fed cows?

Not the people who buy their meat at Walmart. Not the people who stop at the McDonald's drive thru. Maybe not even the people who *think* they are eating grass fed beef.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the majority of people are eating sub-par meat and that is a big part how it affects your health and wellness.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

if i were to go around telling people to stop eating meat, people would be upset and say i'm pushing vegetarianism on them. if people go around telling me to eat meat, that's okay. perfectly normal. what is wrong with me for making the decision to not eat meat, anyway?!?!
there is a double standard that exists, and i don't think it should.<snip>

That's because Vegetarianism is a very new concept in the history of man. At your age, it's often seen as a misguided attempt to be healthier, when other people who don't share your view want to 'help' you. People don't trust it. Eating meat is normal, abstaining is strange. I'm personally of the belief that vegetarianism is ridiculous (as I could never manage to get the iron, protein, BCAAs etc I need from plant matter), but I keep my view on the topic restricted to discussions such as these. Some people don't.

Exactly.

And to add to that.......

There has never been a vegan society in the history of the earth. People that eat a non-processed paleo diet have no CVD, Stroke, Diabetes, or cancer in any detectable amounts (masi, kitavans)

PaleoPath4Lyfe

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

I will fully agree with you that there can be some nutritional value from meat.

However? Who is eating grass fed cows?

Not the people who buy their meat at Walmart. Not the people who stop at the McDonald's drive thru. Maybe not even the people who *think* they are eating grass fed beef.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the majority of people are eating sub-par meat and that is a big part how it affects your health and wellness.

Well, I know I am eating grass fed cows. I buy from a local farmer that grass feeds his cows and pigs and chickens are just running around hunting and pecking.

I live in the Midwest in a somewhat rural area outside of St Louis, so we have Amish people and traditional farmers still in my area.

I very rarely eat Fast Food at all. It is on rare occasion and we usually seek out Culvers because they have the best burgers in the world for a restaurant burger. Bunless double deluxe and a side salad is a very filling meal for me.

SilentRenegade

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

I will fully agree with you that there can be some nutritional value from meat.

However? Who is eating grass fed cows?

Not the people who buy their meat at Walmart. Not the people who stop at the McDonald's drive thru. Maybe not even the people who *think* they are eating grass fed beef.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the majority of people are eating sub-par meat and that is a big part how it affects your health and wellness.

Well, I know I am eating grass fed cows. I buy from a local farmer that grass feeds his cows and pigs and chickens are just running around hunting and pecking.

I live in the Midwest in a somewhat rural area outside of St Louis, so we have Amish people and traditional farmers still in my area.

I very rarely eat Fast Food at all. It is on rare occasion and we usually seek out Culvers because they have the best burgers in the world for a restaurant burger. Bunless double deluxe and a side salad is a very filling meal for me.

I've never heard of Culvers, but I live on the east coast... that meal sounds great for me, especially when talking about fast food!

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Steak & BJ day

What day is this? Someone tell my wife...I'm taking the day off.

^^:laugh: Must not let husband find out about this day... LOL.

Its TODAY, March 14.

As far as he's concerned, it's Pi day & he will get pie.

Don't mean that to come across as rude. I'm totally kidding about the whole thing. Pie, steaks, & bj for all. LOL.

Hey, its not my husband......

Mine gets steaks slathered with butter and BJ's on a regular basis.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

I will fully agree with you that there can be some nutritional value from meat.

However? Who is eating grass fed cows?

Not the people who buy their meat at Walmart. Not the people who stop at the McDonald's drive thru. Maybe not even the people who *think* they are eating grass fed beef.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the majority of people are eating sub-par meat and that is a big part how it affects your health and wellness.

Well, I know I am eating grass fed cows. I buy from a local farmer that grass feeds his cows and pigs and chickens are just running around hunting and pecking.

I live in the Midwest in a somewhat rural area outside of St Louis, so we have Amish people and traditional farmers still in my area.

I very rarely eat Fast Food at all. It is on rare occasion and we usually seek out Culvers because they have the best burgers in the world for a restaurant burger. Bunless double deluxe and a side salad is a very filling meal for me.

I've never heard of Culvers, but I live on the east coast... that meal sounds great for me, especially when talking about fast food!

We are former Atkins lifestylers turned Paleo.

zeeeb

quite frankly, i'd prefer not to live to a "ripe old age". i'm currently watching my 95 year old grandmother in law survive, outwit and out last with alzheimers. she has barely any teeth and won't sit still long enough to go to the dentist or hair dresser, she doesn't know who her family are, she begs to not be taken back in "there" (the nursing home), she doesn't leave the nursing home, she doesn't go outside, and she's surrounded by people in a similar position. No thanks.

i'd like to live long enough to spend some precious time with my (potential) grandchildren, but certainly not to that end thank you very much.

HenryCT

This study considered "hamburgers" as non-processed meat. This was a study of unhealthy meat against vegetables, reported from people's memory.

I think you'll find that if you eat real red meat (meat from healthy free-range animals that eat grass) and plants (no pesticides, organic produced, etc) that you will love longer than people who eat processed and chemically treated vegetables.

FitLink

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

And since not eating meat guarantees you won't get those things and eating meat guarantees you will, it's worth being miserable without them. It's not like some things are worth the risk or anything, but since I an guaranteed a long healthy life as long as I don't eat meat, it's worth it.

What? Jim FIxx? Yeah, he wrote a lot of books and did lots of interviews about exercise and healthy eating. He ran 10 miles a day back in the 1970s. Bet he's super-healthy now in his 70s! What? He's dead!?! SINCE 1984!?! He was 52?!? WTF? You mean health and long life aren't guaranteed? Surely, it's guaranteed if I give up meat, though, right? No? Really? Gimme that steak!!

cabaray

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Red meat has a lot of nutrients so I find it hard to believe that a steak is bad for anyone, especially if it comes from grass fed cows.

I will fully agree with you that there can be some nutritional value from meat.

However? Who is eating grass fed cows?

Not the people who buy their meat at Walmart. Not the people who stop at the McDonald's drive thru. Maybe not even the people who *think* they are eating grass fed beef.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the majority of people are eating sub-par meat and that is a big part how it affects your health and wellness.

We eat fresh grass-fed beef grown on my aunt's farm.

FitLink

Everyone is going to die of something. No offense to vegetarians, if that's what you want to do, go for it.

Steve Jobs was a vegetarian. He died due to cancer... just saying.

Yeah, but in fairness, if you look at what we've learned about Steve since he died, his diet was far from healthy. Steve wasn't a "vegetarian" so much as a "fruitarian." For a several year period, it was even more limited than that, and he ate nothing but apples... While I agree it's possible to be healthy eating nothing animal-derived, it's just as possible to be wildly unhealthy on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Just as it's possible to be very healthy on an omnivorous diet.

lukeout007

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

And since not eating meat guarantees you won't get those things and eating meat guarantees you will, it's worth being miserable without them. It's not like some things are worth the risk or anything, but since I an guaranteed a long healthy life as long as I don't eat meat, it's worth it.

Wait...was this sarcastic? Did you just say being a vegetarian guarantees you won't get sick and eating meat guarantees you will? If you want to believe it has something to do with it then fine but I think saying it "guarantees" either way is ridiculous.

My apologies if it was a sarcastic comment.

Isolt

Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.

To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.

Isolt

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I start the downhill slide I'll have my trip to Dignitas planned. There's no reason why any of us need to hang around suffering when we can pop off at a time and place of our own choosing.

_VoV

quite frankly, i'd prefer not to live to a "ripe old age". i'm currently watching my 95 year old grandmother in law survive, outwit and out last with alzheimers. she has barely any teeth and won't sit still long enough to go to the dentist or hair dresser, she doesn't know who her family are, she begs to not be taken back in "there" (the nursing home), she doesn't leave the nursing home, she doesn't go outside, and she's surrounded by people in a similar position. No thanks.

i'd like to live long enough to spend some precious time with my (potential) grandchildren, but certainly not to that end thank you very much.

There are no guarantees on how each individual's life will play out. We all hedge our bets, and hope for the best. I'm sorry your grandmother is suffering from Alzheimers. It's a cruel disease. But, dying younger isn't necessarily pretty either. My father was in his late 50's when he was dying from the multiple-organ effects of clogged arteries. This effected his renal function, cognition, heart, and he was passing out every day due to carotid artery blockages. He also suffered tremendous anxiety, mainly due to the financial consequences of not being able to work, and he worried daily about leaving my mother, brother and me alone to fend for ourselves. Dying with your responsibilities unfulfilled really stinks.

_VoV

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I start the downhill slide I'll have my trip to Dignitas planned. There's no reason why any of us need to hang around suffering when we can pop off at a time and place of our own choosing.

Your comments remind me of the doctor who professionally helped people die a good death. But, when she had metastatic cancer, she chose to fight it to the bitter end. Unless you are actively at the end of life, you don't know how you would feel. Here's the story about the doctor I am mentioning, in case you are interested:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/health/04doctor.html