Meat and early mortality
Replies
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Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-278400 -
Read your quote. It says thousands.
Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
"And maybe even millions"
suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.
Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.
Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.
And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....
"Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.
However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.
Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......
Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."0 -
Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.0 -
Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.
To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.
Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.
That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)0 -
Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.
To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.
Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.
That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)
I think I love you0 -
You can have my bacon when you take it out of my cold dead hands.
Which according to this study is sooner than I'd like. :laugh:0 -
Millions of years? ...unless you're of the opinion that humans originally lived in an amazing garden and ate lots of wonderful plant foods.
To be fair though, only nutcases believe that.
Well, that certainly is an opinion. Just to be clear: this is a discussion about meat and mortality, not religion.
That's very true, but I never pass up the opportunity to take the piss out of any religion ;-)
*like*0 -
Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.
What do you think of the "Expensive Tissue Hypothesis"? Oh wait...maybe that's a topic for another forum :bigsmile:0 -
Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-27840
EXCELLENT article.
That study that was posted yesterday is a huge statistical mess, the conclusions of which were loose at best.0 -
Apologies if someone else has already posted it but here's a nice lengthy read on all the problems with yesterday's reports:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#more-27840
EXCELLENT article.
That study that was posted yesterday is a huge statistical mess, the conclusions of which were loose at best.
Why do you think that, Elizabeth? It looked like some pretty tight research to me, albeit not prospective and randomized from the outset.0 -
Read your quote. It says thousands.
Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
"And maybe even millions"
suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.
Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.
Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.
And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....
"Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.
However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.
Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......
Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."
No, not technically speaking.
the human species, or homo sapien, has not been around for millions of years. A scavenger human LIKE species (according to the article you posted) has been around longer.
I wasn't arguing for or against eating meat, so can you stop jumping down my throat. Humans have not been around for millions of years, and it was clearly said out of ignorance- not referring to a scavenger human-like creature.0 -
Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
Modern Homo sapiens have been around less than 200,000 years (I teach human evolution at the college level). Also, they weren't eating the highly processed and unhealthily raised meats we do, and did not get meat nearly as often as we do.
Thank you!0 -
If loving you is wrong...
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And I would like to remind the " better than thou vegetarians" that if you are not meticulous about the fruits and veggies that you buy the chemicals and genetic mutation in your veggies can be just as harmful.
Wouldn't this be an issue for anyone who eats fruits and veggies, vegetarian or omnivore?
This is a point for any one who consumes anything bought at the grocrie store. I think the bigger point was not to use how horrible lying in a hospitol bed to scare people away from meat. There are alot of factors that can lead to cancer heart attack and stroke, and if some one is going to use a dooms day tactic then they need to realize all of the factors that can get you there.0 -
The problem with studies like this are
1. Dietary intake is self-reported. This method is notoriously inaccurate
2. Despite the methods of statistical analysis it's impossible to definitively show causation
While I don't think studies of this nature should be completely dismissed, I think they're best used as hypothesis generating, rather than a basis on which to make sweeping conclusions.
Since vegetarians are more likely to be "health conscious" than the average person, I would be interested to see studies comparing vegetarian diets to "health conscious" meat eaters.
good point0 -
Might check your facts on Pandas. I have never seen a cow eat a chicken or a giraffe eat a kangaroo ....... Just sayin'0
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You need to find a sense of humor. Wow.. Not eating meat isn't going to save your life if you continue to live it so uptight ...Relax, enjoy a good joke, maybe, just maybe try to smile... However my neighbor got arrested for smiling....0
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one of my neighbors chopped up his grandmother's dog with a hatchet. come near our animals and you're going to jail.i wouldn't eat my cat or my boyfriend's dogs, so why would i eat a cow or a pig or a fish?
I'd eat your cat and your boyfriend's dogs.
Just sayin'.
just sayin'.0 -
[/quote
one of my neighbors chopped up his grandmother's dog with a hatchet. come near our animals and you're going to jail.i wouldn't eat my cat or my boyfriend's dogs, so why would i eat a cow or a pig or a fish?
I'd eat your cat and your boyfriend's dogs.
Just sayin'.
just sayin'.
]You need to find a sense of humor. Wow.. Not eating meat isn't going to save your life if you continue to live it so uptight ...Relax, enjoy a good joke, maybe, just maybe try to smile... However my neighbor got arrested for smiling....0 -
I like meat.
And I like vegetarians. Specially those who don't keep trying to convert you.
But in my opinion: The only mammal I know that switched to almost strict vegetarian diet.... It's the panda.
Cute.
And there's scientists trying HARD to make then reproduce.
When the species gave up on f... procriate, that means something.
Ahhh I'm just messin with ya!
Might check your facts on Pandas. I have never seen a cow eat a chicken or a giraffe eat a kangaroo ....... Just sayin'0 -
Might check your facts on Pandas. I have never seen a cow eat a chicken or a giraffe eat a kangaroo ....... Just sayin'
Pandas are bears, converted to veganism.0 -
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And before the haters: Pandas don't want fo reproduce in captivity.
It was a little joke, ok?
I love vegans. Well done, with chianti.
Ok ok I will stop.
But, for all the cannibals out there, do they prefer a meat eating person or a vegan person?
Just wonderin...0 -
And before the haters: Pandas don't want fo reproduce in captivity.
It was a little joke, ok?
I love vegans. Well done, with chianti.
Ok ok I will stop.
But, for all the cannibals out there, do they prefer a meat eating person or a vegan person?
Just wonderin...
Vegans taste better
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Vegans taste better
[/quote]
Touché 0 -
Read your quote. It says thousands.
Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
"And maybe even millions"
suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.
Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.
Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.
And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....
"Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.
However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.
Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......
Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."
No, not technically speaking.
the human species, or homo sapien, has not been around for millions of years. A scavenger human LIKE species (according to the article you posted) has been around longer.
I wasn't arguing for or against eating meat, so can you stop jumping down my throat. Humans have not been around for millions of years, and it was clearly said out of ignorance- not referring to a scavenger human-like creature.
Sorry, but the poster you are quoting is correct.
Homo hab·i·lis (hb-ls)
n.
An extinct species of humans considered to be an ancestor of modern humans and the earliest hominid to make tools. This species existed between 1.5 and 2.0 million years ago.0 -
Of course, why do you think we feed all our meat animals vegan feed?And before the haters: Pandas don't want fo reproduce in captivity.
It was a little joke, ok?
I love vegans. Well done, with chianti.
Ok ok I will stop.
But, for all the cannibals out there, do they prefer a meat eating person or a vegan person?
Just wonderin...
Vegans taste better
0 -
Yes, "human" is the term for every member of the genus "homo." From homo habilis and homo gautengensis all the way up to modern homo sapiens sapiens.
Read your quote. It says thousands.
Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
"And maybe even millions"
suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.
Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.
Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.
And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....
"Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.
However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.
Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......
Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."
No, not technically speaking.
the human species, or homo sapien, has not been around for millions of years. A scavenger human LIKE species (according to the article you posted) has been around longer.
I wasn't arguing for or against eating meat, so can you stop jumping down my throat. Humans have not been around for millions of years, and it was clearly said out of ignorance- not referring to a scavenger human-like creature.
Sorry, but the poster you are quoting is correct.
Homo hab·i·lis (hb-ls)
n.
An extinct species of humans considered to be an ancestor of modern humans and the earliest hominid to make tools. This species existed between 1.5 and 2.0 million years ago.0 -
Read your quote. It says thousands.
Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.
"And maybe even millions"
suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.
Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.
Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.
And you obviously missed this little lesson from the resident Archaeologist....
"Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.
However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.
Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......
Technically speaking, the human SPECIES has been eating meat for millions of years."
No, not technically speaking.
the human species, or homo sapien, has not been around for millions of years. A scavenger human LIKE species (according to the article you posted) has been around longer.
I wasn't arguing for or against eating meat, so can you stop jumping down my throat. Humans have not been around for millions of years, and it was clearly said out of ignorance- not referring to a scavenger human-like creature.
That was not an article--that was me, paraphrasing the information that was crammed into my cranium for four solid years at the University of Wyoming, but thanks.
And our hominid ancestors can be called many things, but not a 'human like species." Homo as a species HAS been around for millions of years. More than two most certainly--and those in the early Homo line were tool manufacturing, critter killing, meat eating, plant gathering humans.0 -
"Men and women with higher intake of red meat were less likely to be physically active and were more likely to be current smokers, to drink alcohol, and to have a higher body mass index (Table 1). In addition, a higher red meat intake was associated with a higher intake of total energy but lower intakes of whole grains, fruits, and vegetables"
Right from the study.....these people died from their lifestyle choices - not the red meat.0
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