Meat and early mortality

freeasharold

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

oh lord. I lasted without commenting until I saw this post. Sickly? really? Sounds like you weren't following a well balanced vegetarian diet.

lukeout007

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

oh lord. I lasted without commenting until I saw this post. Sickly? really? Sounds like you weren't following a well balanced vegetarian diet.

I'm not even a vegetarian and I thought the same thing. I have seen sickly looking vegetarians but I have also seen plenty of very healthy and beautiful vegetarians.

_VoV

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

oh lord. I lasted without commenting until I saw this post. Sickly? really? Sounds like you weren't following a well balanced vegetarian diet.

I'm not even a vegetarian and I thought the same thing. I have seen sickly looking vegetarians but I have also seen plenty of very healthy and beautiful vegetarians.

Thank you. Many of my friends here are healthy and beautiful vegetarians who inspire me with tantalizing food on their diaries.

kbeckley11

The problem with studies like this are
1. Dietary intake is self-reported. This method is notoriously inaccurate
2. Despite the methods of statistical analysis it's impossible to definitively show causation

While I don't think studies of this nature should be completely dismissed, I think they're best used as hypothesis generating, rather than a basis on which to make sweeping conclusions.

Since vegetarians are more likely to be "health conscious" than the average person, I would be interested to see studies comparing vegetarian diets to "health conscious" meat eaters.

I agree.

maybethistime70

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

daffodilsoup

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

What did your diet look like? Were you getting proper nutrition? Did you incorporate strength training and reach your macronutrient and calorie goals? Maybe it wasn't so much a vegetarian diet as much as poor planning.

I'm a vegan and I can bench press a pony.

...not sure if that would be vegan though.

Kenzietea2

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........

VeganPanda

I'm stunned by some of these responses.

Such a need for defensiveness. Crazy.

mes1119

O dear God. Save me...

Goal_Seeker_1988

I'd rather eat meat then to eat chips, cookies, cakes.... foods with ingredients I can't pronouce or have to look up just to see what the hell they are. Sorry, I will eat my meat!

ironanimal

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........

Read your quote. It says thousands.

lukeout007

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........

Read your quote. It says thousands.

Technically you're both right. It says "thousands (and maybe even millions) of years."

Goal_Seeker_1988

BTW being on this website is currently giving you cancer
Just sayin....

Breathing the air can cause cancer as well! Guess we will have to give up meat and give up breathing the air as well!

albinogorilla

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

What did your diet look like? Were you getting proper nutrition? Did you incorporate strength training and reach your macronutrient and calorie goals? Maybe it wasn't so much a vegetarian diet as much as poor planning.

I'm a vegan and I can bench press a pony.

...not sure if that would be vegan though.

if the pony accidentally dies during your athletic feat i will eat it for you

amysj303

The author of the Primal Blueprint just wrote about this:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#axzz1p77bHt4h
Interesting stuff, and links to the actual study. I don't think the researchers were trying to get at a certain result, but it is an OBSERVATIONAL study, not an experiment that might get at cause and effect.

robot_potato

Ok...i'll show my 94 year old meat eating great grandmother this.

jbuntu

"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing."
- Redd Foxx

Everything in moderation...

lukeout007

I tried being vegetarian, but FAILED. I felt healthier at first, only because I had to eat extra fruits and veggies to compensate for the meat. That CLEANED me out good! Then I started losing too much muscle. Not worth it. I need more than shakes and beans. GIMMEEE that MEAT!!!! Sometimes, vegetarians look sickly to me. Like they're missing something.

What did your diet look like? Were you getting proper nutrition? Did you incorporate strength training and reach your macronutrient and calorie goals? Maybe it wasn't so much a vegetarian diet as much as poor planning.

I'm a vegan and I can bench press a pony.

...not sure if that would be vegan though.

if the pony accidentally dies during your athletic feat i will eat it for you

Save some for me

VeganPanda

As the OP pointed out, it is more about the life you live than the age at which you will die or how you will die.

And besides this study, there have been plenty which link meat consumption with a litany of diseases. That isn't to say it cannot be consumed in moderation... yet the long length and winding of the human intestine suggests a herbivorous diet.

But with the Standard American Diet (SAD), disease and early death is imminent for many.

Kelekat

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.

This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........

Actually, if you're talking about anatomically modern humans, then you're correct. Fossil evidence and subsequent dating indicates that homo sapien has been around for 100,000 to 200,000 years.

However, the oldest known hominid, or humanlike species, has been dated at 4.4 million years old. Another species, which is yet to be confirmed as a hominid, has been dated at 6 million years old. Scientists estimate that the hominid lineage diverged from the great ape lineage 5 to 8 million years ago.

Early hominids were likely scavengers rather than hunters. But we know for a fact that Homo habilis (1.76 million years ago) was a hunter (google Acheulean Hand Axe). Even earlier, is the Oldowan tool technology (2.6 to 1.7 mya)--associated with Australopithecus garhi as well as Homo ergaster and early Homo habilis----SO......

Technically speaking, human SPECIES have been eating meat for millions of years.

jessie1480

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

Death in general isn't pretty. I like that someone points out the study, but converting the greneral population isn't going to happen. And I would like to remind the " better than thou vegetarians" that if you are not meticulous about the fruits and veggies that you buy the chemicals and genetic mutation in your veggies can be just as harmful. Try not to cram it down everyone else's throut expesahally by punting out how ugly the end could be. The info is good and people can do with it what we would like.

daffodilsoup

And I would like to remind the " better than thou vegetarians" that if you are not meticulous about the fruits and veggies that you buy the chemicals and genetic mutation in your veggies can be just as harmful.

Wouldn't this be an issue for anyone who eats fruits and veggies, vegetarian or omnivore?

Kenzietea2

Humans have been living long, healthy lives eating meat for thousands (and maybe even millions) of years.
This study is biased and makes my head spin like the exorcist.

Human beings haven't been around for millions of years...........

Read your quote. It says thousands.

"And maybe even millions"

suggesting that humans might have been eating meat for "millions" of years.

Which made me laugh a little, considering we have not been around for that long.

Not really sure why it required a response, I just thought it was funny.

_VoV

I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then...

I hope you never get to the point where it needs to be cut up for you in a nursing home. THAT is my big fear. The end-stage of cancer, heart disease, and strokes isn't pretty.

Death in general isn't pretty. I like that someone points out the study, but converting the greneral population isn't going to happen. And I would like to remind the " better than thou vegetarians" that if you are not meticulous about the fruits and veggies that you buy the chemicals and genetic mutation in your veggies can be just as harmful. Try not to cram it down everyone else's throut expesahally by punting out how ugly the end could be. The info is good and people can do with it what we would like.

This thread has seen it all:

1. People who think they will drop dead suddenly and painlessly at a relatively young age due to a heart attack, while eating a steak and they seem okay about that.

2. People who have very sick relatives who have lived too long, so they presumably want to die young to avoid that.

3. People who think 'we all die.' (Can't disagree with that one). So they don't think it's worth worrying about adopting an optimally healthful lifestyle.

4. People who think I am somehow being 'judgmental' by posting a link about a huge study that made major news yesterday.

This is a fitness site. Why is this study not relevant here? I would also like to point out that the study dealt with 'mortality', so if you are sensitive to discussions about death and dying, this is probably not a good thread for you to read.

sarahgilmore

I'll keep eating meat, and do my bit to help solve world overpopulation.

Jeff92se

No one here thinks they will die at a young age because they eat meat and are okay with it.

You are the queen of incorrect conclusions.

_VoV

No one here thinks they will die at a young age because they eat meat and are okay with it.

You are the queen of incorrect conclusions.

Many people seem glib in their responses, and that's simply how they sound to me. Here is an example:

"I guess I'll just die young and happy with a nice big steak in front of me then..."

Jeff92se

No one here thinks they will die at a young age because they eat meat and are okay with it.

You are the queen of incorrect conclusions.

Many people seem glib in their responses, and that's simply how they sound to me.

Adjust your sarcasm meter before stating someone's comments as their true feelings on the matter. But I do believe you WANT desperately to have them actually feel that way.

Isolt

Also, if red meat is banned, then all cattle ranchers would stop raising cattle. If we have less cattle, then that will help global warming. Cattle produce 70 and 120 kg of Methane per year (cow farts) and this Methane contributes to green house.

Soooo...I usually believe that things are researched for certain reasons. Saying red meat will kill us helps the government to ban red meat (obviously not right away, but maybe over time) and then the Government can kill two birds with one stone (close some corporations (fast food restaurants) and help global warming) !

I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans, but I have to say that ive seen this 'if only there were no cattle....' argument a 100 times on political boards. The fact is, cow gas is but a teenie drop in the global warming ocean because the real problem is US. We breed like bloody rabbits with no thought of sustainability. The FACT is that we cannot afford (as in, there are not enough global resources) for everyone to live as we live in the West. Our societies WHOLLY depend on keeping other parts of the world at subsistence level....and they are defying us; they're getting richer (India and China are good examples.). The current global population growth is unsustainable and killing off cows won't change a damn thing in that respect.

We (humans) have two choices; either Keep the third world starving and undeveloped in order to sustain our current standard of living in the West OR curb our population worldwide by heavily deincentivising having children. There is a third option, but that involves a lot of luck and a damn good retro-virus to wipe a few billion of us out.

cannonsky

I watched the documentary Forks over Knives and decided I was going to be a vegan... It didn't last long because I learned very fast that I can't learn to like beans and veggie stock... I tried. It just doesn't work for me... so I eat mostly poultry for protein... but then Food Inc. makes me feel bad about that too. There's no winning.