"Spike Day" Nonsense

killagb

Plus, look at his pics - he clearly knows what works.

Come on now...this is how broscience is backed up...tsk tsk!

Rae6503

Hehehe; I just use cheat days because I happen to really "need" to go out for all-you-can-eat sushi now and then!

This is pretty much how I use them. Some days I must eat ALL the food.

Acg67

The concept of the benefits of a “Spike Day” centers around the notion that leptin is a key hormone in bodyweight regulation, and that leptin decreases in response to dieting, which causes our weight loss to slow down. Thus, by having a day of overfeeding, the thinking goes, we can bring leptin back up to baseline, thereby “side stepping” the decrease in leptin that hinders our fat loss efforts.

The problem with this logic is that it misses a key part of the puzzle. First, a little background.
Without getting too technical here, Leptin is the hormone that is in charge of bodyweight regulation. When calories go up, stored bodyfat goes up, Leptin goes up. The result is you feel less hungry, metabolism goes up, etc. Essentially leptin tells the body that it is “well fed.” (So why do people get obese? Chronically elevated leptin = leptin resistance = leptin can’t do it’s job. Sucks, huh?) When calories go down, leptin drops, and you feel more hungry, and you want to eat more, metabolic slow down, etc. Basically, what’s going on here is that your body “fights against” weight loss, and one of the tools that’s used is leptin. (we all wish it fought just as hard against weight gain).

^^^Again, keep in mind, this is terribly oversimplified for the purposes of background info^^^

So then, along comes the Spike Day. By overfeeding once per week, they claim, you raise leptin, so you’re not dealing with the metabolic slowdown and other things that come along with a drop in leptin. Not so fast.

As I mentioned earlier, this is missing a key part of the puzzle. *Drum roll* Leptin basically rises and falls as soon as calories go up and down. The research has shown that it only takes about 24 hours for leptin to response to a calorie deficit or surplus:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/8/2685.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8866554

What I’m saying here is that the Spike Diet has it only half right. Leptin does increase and decrease in response to calorie intake, but it responds rapidly. So raising it for 24 hours won’t do squat. As soon as your reefed is over, it goes right back down to where it was.

I do believe that a “cheat day” has other benefits, however, for most folks, the benefits are purely psychological. I’m not diminishing the importance of psychological tolerance of a diet, I’m simply saying that physiological arguments for the Spike Day don’t hold water; if you want to do a Spike Day because you enjoy it and it “works for you,” by all means, have at it.

One final note on Leptin. What I wrote above may beg the question “so how does anybody lose weight?” Or, you might say “see, I told you starvation mode was real!” When I talk about your body fighting against weight loss, you body can only fight so hard. You can always overcome it by eating a little less/moving a little more when weight loss slows.

Finally, like a Baptist Preacher, I’m going to conclude for a third time. There is something to the notion of taking break from your diet to regulate metabolism, etc. This is best accomplished by a week (or two) long “diet break” where calories are raised to maintenance level.

http://broscience.com/broscience-com-approved-articles/1305-s-all-about-leptin-bro-amirite.html

jenniebean1680

Hehehe; I just use cheat days because I happen to really "need" to go out for all-you-can-eat sushi now and then!

This is pretty much how I use them. Some days I must eat ALL the food.

^^THIS. And other days I'm hardly hungry, ever.

Love me some sound science and some well-worded posts up in here. Preach it!

Sidesteal

Excellent post.

Here is Lyle's series on Leptin that you mentioned briefly, in case anyone wants to read it:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-2.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-3.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-4.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-5.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-6.html

MrsR0SE

Very interesting, thanks - bump!

tania1782

Great information, thank you!

EbbySoo

Yep, I really only use spike days for furthering my endurance training, I don't call it a cheat day but a refeed usually because my activity level will be so high for the days before/after it. But cheat days for the mental aspect are kinda pointless, we should just have treats that fit our macros regularly unless carb cycling in which case then we just wait for that magical day...

Ambrogio1

Sooooo

I was stuck at a 184 for some time. I then added a surplus of cals every sunday to my weekly regimens.
I then began to lose at a steady pace of 1 lb per week.

Are you saying that when I did this it was like taking a 2 week break of maintanence?

Ambrogio1

Excellent post.

Here is Lyle's series on Leptin that you mentioned briefly, in case anyone wants to read it:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-2.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-3.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-4.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-5.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-6.html

These are good. I read these

4theking

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

UponThisRock

Sooooo

I was stuck at a 184 for some time. I then added a surplus of cals every sunday to my weekly regimens.
I then began to lose at a steady pace of 1 lb per week.

Are you saying that when I did this it was like taking a 2 week break of maintanence?

I wouldn't attempt to conclude anything of value from the experiences of one person.

EbbySoo

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

Right on.

Phrak

Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit.

For the average population using MFP, they do not have to worry about glycogen depletion. They simply do not train hard enough to encounter this. Id also hazard a guess its the dropping of cortisol during the overfeed period the releases water weight from the system.

Ambrogio1

Sooooo

I was stuck at a 184 for some time. I then added a surplus of cals every sunday to my weekly regimens.
I then began to lose at a steady pace of 1 lb per week.

Are you saying that when I did this it was like taking a 2 week break of maintanence?

I wouldn't attempt to conclude anything of value from the experiences of one person.

So.. What I get from this is I am the exception
I like that.

I tend to not over thinkg things Or maybe I'm just a big ole dummy jock!

Anyway I had great sucess with spiking and it also mentally helped me understand that if I did binge and I did fall off it was ok.
Personally, I been in this game a long time. I am 34. I built a great phyqiue over the yrs. I built it, ruined it and built it again.

Its a great tool to have in the aresnal. You should try it and give first person feedback

Acg67

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

Is it at all possible that the psychological benefit of having a weekly "spike day" lead to greater adherence vs any of the physiological responses to overfeeding you mentioned and that is why they were successful?

Phrak

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

Is it at all possible that the psychological benefit of having a weekly "spike day" lead to greater adherence vs any of the physiological responses to overfeeding you mentioned and that is why they were successful?

Diet adherence will always trump miniscule hormonal changes caused by a day of over eating.

4theking

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

Is it at all possible that the psychological benefit of having a weekly "spike day" lead to greater adherence vs any of the physiological responses to overfeeding you mentioned and that is why they were successful?

Diet adherence will always trump miniscule hormonal changes caused by a day of over eating.

Certainly, it is much easier to adhere to a diet if we have one day a week to let go a bit but to dismiss the power of hormones is looking at it a bit blindly.

UponThisRock

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

If you're going to claim that a 24 hour refeed is going to raise test, you have to back it up with a little more than what you "imagine."

Even if it did, a drop in testosterone isn't a concern to most people on this website. Going from overweight or obese to normal weight, along with a healthier diet and exercise, is going to increase test. Bodybuilders dieting to a very low bodyfat are the ones that need to worry about those issues (and I doubt 24 hours of more food is going to do anything for them either).

As far as glycogen supercompensation, that's moot if you're not training to glycogen depletion in the first place. It is a method that can be beneficial if employed correctly (a la Lyle's Ultimate Diet 2.0), but that doesn't mean you can apply the same principles a a run-of-the-mill caloric deficit. Even then, whether or not it's superior to a straight calorie deficit is more theory than proven fact.

On a similar note, "going from highly anabolic to highly catabolic" might give you an acute affect of "increased fat burning," but even if it does, it has not been proven that it would give you better results than a moderate deficit over time, and I doubt that it would.

Phrak

While I don't refute said studies, I do believe there are benfits even in a short term rise in leptin. Eating at a surplus of carbohydrates when glycogen stores are nearly empty does not result in fat gain. Once glycogen stores are full and even supercompensated if done correctly, you can get a workout far superior to a normal workout on a deficit. You also cannot discount other hormonal respones such as increases in DHEA, the building block to testosterone and estrogen and thyroid hormone in the active fat burning form T3. I imagine you would also see a rise in IGF-1 as a result of the increase in carbohydrate consumption. I know IGF-1 rises after overeating , just not sure on the exact timetable. You also can't discount the negative feedback loop that controls our hormonal systems. Going from a state of highly catabolic (high caloric deficit) to highly anabolic (caloric intake over maint.), will cause fat burning to increase until homestasis is reached.

I have taken people who had tried to lose weight for six months and were unsuccessful and got them losing, some as much as 50lbs. I personally have helped many, many people using this method. While I do believe the science is there to back it up, whether or not it can be proven in a lab makes no difference to me. It works, plain and simple and thats my main concern.

Is it at all possible that the psychological benefit of having a weekly "spike day" lead to greater adherence vs any of the physiological responses to overfeeding you mentioned and that is why they were successful?

Diet adherence will always trump miniscule hormonal changes caused by a day of over eating.

Certainly, it is much easier to adhere to a diet if we have one day a week to let go a bit but to dismiss the power of hormones is looking at it a bit blindly.

I do not dismiss the power of hormones. Only the power of hormones released in a oneday overfeed.