The "Sissifying" of America...
Replies
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What's the point of winning if everybody gets one of these.
I'm seriously starting to think that you people don't understand the psychology of developing brains.0 -
no no, you're right, it's hurting the country.
they're calling it the "entitlement" generation, cuz these kids graduate and join the work force and immediately want six figures, a company car, a corner top-floor office, secretary, full benefits, a company gym, 401k, frequent bonuses, constant praise.... with only a high school diploma or bachelors degree and no work experience
and why not? they were told their whole life they're the best, each and everyone of them are the best and they're rewarded, so they think real life is like that
it's making it hard on employers, because they can't keep up the constant praise these kids require0 -
i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
Nobody is talking about belittling your kids or calling them names, or physically beating them for not winning...
The approach that should be taken is taking them aside, explaining way in which they might be able to get better, and HELP them achieve that. If they STILL suck at the task, you find ways to foster their strengths.
Growing up I was an uncoordinated mess, couldn't play sports well that involved a ball, couldn't catch, etc. But I could run FAST. I was directed by teachers towards track. By the 6th grade I was running 100m dash at about 12 seconds, I was good at it, I was by far the fastest on the team, it was something that I excelled at. An injury later in the season (tore the ligaments in my shins/calves) knocked me out of track pretty much forever. I found something else I was great at...computers. I learned all I could and enjoyed it, it's what I do for a living now. I grew out of my other uncoordinated issues and became quite athletic in high school, but still to this day fail at other things that I've never been great at, like basketball...I just do something else that I am good at.
You learn your own strengths and limitations through winning and loosing, nothing wrong with it and, like others have said, suffering builds character, don't we all want our children to grow up with good character?0 -
In Response to getting 50% on work not turned in:
Wish my step son was in that district. In our district you get zeros and the grading system is adjusted like this:
A 92-100% Excellent Work
B+ 89-91% Above Average Work
B 83-88% Above Average Work
C+ 80-82% Average Work
C 74-79% Average Work
D+ 71-73% Below Average Work
D 65-70% Below Average Work
F Below 65% Unsatisfactory Work or Withdrew after 3rd week
WP Above 65% Withdrew during weeks 1 to 3 and Passing the course
WF Below 65% Withdrew during weeks 1 to 3 and Failing the course
NC No Credit or Excessive Absence0 -
i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
I think you might be missing the point a little. Being told you're a failure is much different than being allowed to fail.
Maybe I am.
It's the part where the principle gave everyone a ribbon and told them they all were winners that I'm focusing on. Whatever it was, i'm sure every kid knows who "won" and who "lost" but there is benefits to being positive about plugging ahead even when you aren't on top. Even with things like marathons- hell, I consider myself a winner for finishing the goddamned thing!
I'm also focusing on all the talk about t-ball. The point of t-ball isn't to be competitive, it's to learn how to work as a team and how to play the game. I LOVED that they didn't keep score and no kid got beat up becuase his dad was absent and his mom worked all the time and so he wasn't at the same level as coaches three boys or whatever.
I'm not saying hand them a silver platter and free keys to the car and let them do whatever. But i'm not into the "LET KIDS FAIL" and calling them losers.
I don't think anyone in this thread said they would call their kid "losers".
Nobody is saying you should go home and yell/berate your child. They're saying it's important that children experience what it's like to fail or even do something poorly.
It's so they can learn how to cope with failure/disappointment/ya know the negative stuff that comes with events throughout our lives.0 -
I totally agree. In Asia, kids are treated with uber discipline. If you dont win. YOU DONT WIN.
Try harder next time!!!
I think being challenged is severely downplayed in this country.0 -
I completely understand your point of view. In fact, when I first read this I whole-heartedly agreed with all of your claims. However, I started thinking about my own childhood experiences in school and I started to understand the other side. I was bullied...profusely by my peers, and I think that if my teachers spent a little more time encouraging me, perhaps I'd have a little more self-esteem? I don't know? Maybe. Of course, I'm an adult now and I'm in charge of building/owning myself but when I was young I didn't understand all of the negativity towards me. It was really hard to get through.0
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I agree. Parents and schools should make children feel special, but not to the point of making them think no matter what they do the world revolves around them and it's all a "me, me, me" world. They also need to learn the rewards of doing a genuinely good job and having empathy for others.0
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Not sure if it's been said already but the same applies to giving every kid a #1 bib at a kids' dash.
Only the winner wins. The others lose (or "defer success" lol).
Of course, without losers, there really are no winners.0 -
Omg, and the helicopter parents thing, my mom was a private school principal for a while and those are the WORST. She could go on for hours about those damn helicopter parents!
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OMG helicopter parents suck. Especially if the student is in college. We can't speak to the parents since the student is in college unless the student give us permission. This students don't know anything that is going on with their student files. They usually don't even fill out any of the paperwork themselves. I get yelled by parent becaues their child is an idiot and they don't want them to grow. Guess what student your mommy can't take the class for nor is she going to be the one interviewing for jobs when that time comes.0 -
HALLELUJAH!!! And, thank you for being a MAN! I couldn't agree more!0
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By babying people, flattering when you don't mean it, etc... you set people up to fail. When someone or something comes along that doesn't flatter, but rather insults or when you don't win (which happens often, you can't always win after all) you don't know how to deal with it.
Being overly positive, overly flattering, etc... is just as damaging as being overly negative.0 -
OP, I honestly agree. I'm only 22 but back when I was in school we had a lot of competitions and you actually had to work to earn yourself points or whatever. Each year we had something to encourage kids to read more and your grade would display the top 10 scores and how many books they read. I got my insane reading speed from that because each year I was neck and neck with a Middle Eastern boy, same with most academics and most times he won. I didn't get things for second place but I didn't cry, I was just more determined for next year. (and this is mean but I had an anxiety attack one year during state testing and didn't want to puke on the test so I turned my head and happened to puke on him, small victory)
My high schools were the same. I know my second high school I worked my butt off and earned not only a 4.0 GPA the two years I was there, but for being one of the hardest working and intelligent students I was first pick for any field trips which, when your school's sponsored by Exxon Mobile, there are a lot of. Even in my first high school when our band played competitions, if we lost that was it. We didn't get trophies or pizza parties anyway, our band director rode our *kitten* until we improved.
From my understanding of the whole thing, it's the generation of coddling parents that have come in and said "you can't tell my child they aren't special, that they're losers because it makes them sad and sad produces drug addicts/prostitutes/whatever." So schools pull out the win/lose and kids, depending on the school, don't really get a dose of what it's like to not always get to the other end of the rainbow until adulthood.0 -
What's the point of winning if everybody gets one of these.
I'm seriously starting to think that you people don't understand the psychology of developing brains.
What is sad is you actually believe what you just said.
I see everyday folks that have no clue how to deal with even the slightest challenge in life and to piss one off even more have no desire to because it is their expectation that someone needs to fix it for them.
Where is the brain in that.
Good Lord,we put person on the moon before most here can even remember now,they did it with clunky old computers and slide rules.
Being coddled and not allowed to think they can fail will stunt the learning process not enhance it.
Hell,most people today couldn`t count change back if the register didn`t give you the figure.0 -
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!
We've raised a generation of sissies and we're going to have to pay for it.
When I have to wake up at 4 am to go on a call for someone with a sore knee that just HAD to be checked out even though it's been a month since it started hurting I just want to slap that person.
When I have to leave my lunch to go on a call to attend to someone who has a mild fever I just want to cry for our society.
When I have to interrupt my workout or leave my meal to get cold because someone has a sore back and thinks that by calling 911 they'll be seen faster at the ER I just want to yell at them "MAN THE $&#*& UP!!!!"
I'm not a swearing man but some people......!!!!!!
And what are these kids going to do when they hit the real world and realize that someone is going to hold them accountable for their failures and short comings? I've had to straighten out more than one rookie already. You're Mom doesn't #*$UO#OU ing work here. It's your job to scrub that friggin toilet. We all had our turn, now it's your turn you big sissy.0 -
I feel the same way about bullying. SUDDENLY bullying is a huge problem in America. Well, I was bullied for being fat and what happened to me? I became a sassy, hilarious, fat chick who is friends to many a gay (just like most of the fat chicks I know). I didn't go kill myself or any of that crap. Kids are friggin terrible. They will always be vicious but the difference between today's children and older generations is that they don't have the coping skills to get over someone calling them "gay" or "fat *kitten*".
When I was younger, we lost every single soccer game in our league. We were losers, but it didn't stop us from playing, we just tried harder. When I got third place in the science fair I came up with a more bad-*kitten* project for next year and got first place. There were winners and losers and the losers wanted to be winners so they tried harder, got better, ran faster or whatever.
Now I'm losing weight and I have two degrees, one being a bachelors in nursing from the hardest program in the southeast United States because I was bullied and I was a loser and I had something to prove. Now those bullies are the beer-bellied frat boys with nothing better to do than go work at their dad's landscaping company because they have no skills. :drinker:0 -
"It's not a graduation. He's moving from the 4th grade to the 5th grade. It's psychotic! They keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity..."0 -
I'm pretty sure "crime against humanity" didn't come up at all.i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And handing out "posivibes" is no big deal.
But this attitude cheapens both the accomplishment of the victor, and the endeavors of the losers (I mean the not-winner-participants).
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
Hmm. Not sure where you read "crimes against Humanity" in my post.
Pretty sure I never mentioned giving out "posivibes" or not.
But rewarding everyone in a competition equally cheapens not only the success of the victors, but also the endeavors aspirations of the losers. Sorry, i meant the not-victors.0 -
I agree with you!!!0
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A-freakin'-men.
I have 2 boys, 10 and 3. I am also a substitute teacher, working toward an education masters. We've managed to dumb down public education so that a kid can graduate from high school if he/she manages to just SHOW UP 50% of the time. Don't blame the teachers for this--they WANT to enforce higher standards. Blame parents who flip out when you fail Little Precious or won't let Mr. Fantastic get up and go get a drink of water on his own whim. Blame programs that cut school funding if that school's standardized test scores don't reach a certain percentage. Apparently no one gives 2 $hits whether or not the kids actually LEARN anything.
My oldest son has a psychiatric illness. Life for him is a challenge. And I make sure he knows it always will be, but he can learn to adapt and overcome any obstacle if he WANTS TO. I always tell him "the world will never change for you; get used to it." And if you ask him, "does your mom love you?" he will look at you like you're crazy for asking and say "yes."
Your kid isn't special. S/he will not break if he is forced to realize disappointment. As much as I hate to see my kids disappointed, that's life--and they DO get over it.0 -
I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"
2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....0 -
I always hear these anecdotal stories that sound ridiculous but have never experienced them. Sure, they didn't keep score when my son was in t-ball, but that was for good reasons. First, if you keep score then the game can drag forever as kids at that level have trouble with simple things like throwing and catching the ball thus outs would be hard to come by. Secondly, kids need to be eased into the whole "everything is a cut-throat competition" vibe that permeates our culture. A few years of t-ball without keeping score let to coach pitch, which led to Little League where they definitely keeps score, which in turn led to a "select" team where you are benched for performance and they play 60 games a season and the pressure is immense, which led to high school where only the highest-level players are even allowed to play. In other words, competition, scoring and losing come soon enough. It should be age appropriate.
I personally feel that people raise these stories because they like to point at the other parents and say, "Look at what they are doing wrong, but not me! I'm raising my child right!" In other words, it's only other parents who are making mistakes with their kids.0 -
And I also think that this should not be focused primarily on the younger generation. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand my peers, most of them are incredibly obnoxious, but it's the entire American atmosphere. There are a bunch of you that have moved beyond "people need to learn how to lose" to just berating and condemning kids, as though other generations are incapable of not being hypersensitive or self-righteous.
So while I agree, remember that, before you judge, most of you are fat for this exact same reason. I reiterate my statement *again* that most of the younger generation has a seriously enlarged sense of self-worth and shows that in many, many facets of their lives, but if you are a fat adult you are a fat adult because - at least before you started to get serious - you were a wuss about really accepting what you saw in the mirror, and your (and my, all of ours, lying to protect feelings is an American norm now) friends and family said "you looked fine", which turned you into a psychological sissy.
Not saying I'm not an adult myself, just relatively new to the term - in a lot of ways I feel like I'm still subjected to childish stereotypes because of my age.0 -
I call it pussification but its coomonly known as liberal thinking, oh we must make sure everyone is treated fairly - Bull****, go get whats yours - which requires getting off your *kitten*, working hard, taking responsibility, and Oh my god, paying your own way!0
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loser gets a blue ribbon pinned directly to their chest?I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"
2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....0 -
Um....you're 22. Do you really think things have changed all that much? You are part of the generation he is dissing. If anything, your experience shows that what he's describing is not universal.OP, I honestly agree. I'm only 22 but back when I was in school we had a lot of competitions and you actually had to work to earn yourself points or whatever. Each year we had something to encourage kids to read more and your grade would display the top 10 scores and how many books they read. I got my insane reading speed from that because each year I was neck and neck with a Middle Eastern boy, same with most academics and most times he won. I didn't get things for second place but I didn't cry, I was just more determined for next year. (and this is mean but I had an anxiety attack one year during state testing and didn't want to puke on the test so I turned my head and happened to puke on him, small victory)
My high schools were the same. I know my second high school I worked my butt off and earned not only a 4.0 GPA the two years I was there, but for being one of the hardest working and intelligent students I was first pick for any field trips which, when your school's sponsored by Exxon Mobile, there are a lot of. Even in my first high school when our band played competitions, if we lost that was it. We didn't get trophies or pizza parties anyway, our band director rode our *kitten* until we improved.
From my understanding of the whole thing, it's the generation of coddling parents that have come in and said "you can't tell my child they aren't special, that they're losers because it makes them sad and sad produces drug addicts/prostitutes/whatever." So schools pull out the win/lose and kids, depending on the school, don't really get a dose of what it's like to not always get to the other end of the rainbow until adulthood.0 -
And I also think that this should not be focused primarily on the younger generation. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand my peers, most of them are incredibly obnoxious, but it's the entire American atmosphere. There are a bunch of you that have moved beyond "people need to learn how to lose" to just berating and condemning kids, as though other generations are incapable of not being hypersensitive or self-righteous.
So while I agree, remember that, before you judge, most of you are fat for this exact same reason. I reiterate my statement *again* that most of the younger generation has a seriously enlarged sense of self-worth and shows that in many, many facets of their lives, but if you are a fat adult you are a fat adult because - at least before you started to get serious - you were a wuss about really accepting what you saw in the mirror, and your (and my, all of ours, lying to protect feelings is an American norm now) friends and family said "you looked fine", which turned you into a psychological sissy.
Not saying I'm not an adult myself, just relatively new to the term - in a lot of ways I feel like I'm still subjected to childish stereotypes because of my age.
Heh. There you go. I never looked in the mirror and said: I look fine, although many people tried to tell me I did. I knew I was overweight and getting fatter.
It's possible to KNOW you're disgustingly unhealthy and yet continue in bad habits you know?
But thankfully because I was taught the value of losing and the drive of wanting to win I am now capable of working my *kitten* off to lose this weight. Unlike others who are looking for pills and quick easy fixes so they continue to not have to own up to their failure.0 -
In my kids schools they don't give students "F's" anymore they get "U" for unsatisfactory. I guess because the word fail is too harsh for the kids. Bull crap...you FAILED. Do better.0
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The crazy thing is that this is supposed to 'help' them, but it leaves them totally unprepared for real life.
They spend their school years constantly being told that they're great, amazing, unique etc and then they enter the world of work with a massively overdeveloped ego and often a correspondingly massive overestimation of their own worth.
I'm sure anyone who has ever interviewed young people as part of a recruitment process knows exactly what that's like. :grumble:
I work in college recruiting for a fortune 500. I talk to college students and recent grads for 90% of my day. Hiring and managing the Millennial attitude (I like to call them the Self Esteem Generation) is a huge HR initiative for us. The "real world" is changing to meet them, for better or worse.
"why, whatever do you mean, i don't get a corner office with a view and a 6-figure salary my first year out of college?"
un. friggin. real.0 -
How old are your kids?In my kids schools they don't give students "F's" anymore they get "U" for unsatisfactory. I guess because the word fail is too harsh for the kids. Bull crap...you FAILED. Do better.0
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