The "Sissifying" of America...

IronmanPanda

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

loser gets a blue ribbon pinned directly to their chest?

Yep.. as they are feeding his remains to the dogs.

anubis609

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

loser gets a blue ribbon branded directly to their chest?

Fixed.

RicSnyder

I can’t imagine where I would be without the fear and hatred of losing?

ElleOQuent

This is exactly why so many kids have snowflake syndrome.

I can't wait to see what our future generations look like; it's going to be one big cluster fu@k of puss!es and whiny little b!tches sitting around wondering why success doesn't come knocking on their door.

Beautiful.

kmozymoz

It is known as "The duming down of America"

Ummm....

MrsM1ggins

This topic has reminded me of an article I read which talks about how best to motivate children:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

The essence of the article is that "Praising children's intelligence harms motivation and it harms performance." It's better to praise the child for effort than to tell them they're smart, talented etc This encourages them to keep working and trying to improve.

rayleansout

this is not just about kids - ITS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF AMERICA - there are those who want to make everyone weak so they maintian power over all., - wake up people!

amac1072

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

"i can't believe you didn't win the spelling bee! (which, btw, they don't have anymore.) you're a GD IDIOT! i can't believe i raised a moron like you! you can't do anything right!" = emotional abuse

"i know you're disappointed, but hey--you did your best, and now you know what you need to work on, so next time, you can do better." = positive enforcement without coddling

i hope you understand the difference now.

thefuzz1290

I completely understand your point of view. In fact, when I first read this I whole-heartedly agreed with all of your claims. However, I started thinking about my own childhood experiences in school and I started to understand the other side. I was bullied...profusely by my peers, and I think that if my teachers spent a little more time encouraging me, perhaps I'd have a little more self-esteem? I don't know? Maybe. Of course, I'm an adult now and I'm in charge of building/owning myself but when I was young I didn't understand all of the negativity towards me. It was really hard to get through.

Its not your teacher's responsibility to teach you self esteem, its your parents. When my daughter is old enough to understand, she will be told she will not be punished at home if she stands up to being bullied, or someone else being bullied. Basically she better not start the fight, but she's allowed to finish it. My daughter, at 3 years old, learned that not everyone can win. She was involved in a cake walk at our church and her number wasn't picked, she whined that she didn't win, and all I told her was, "Sometimes people win, sometimes people don't." She said, "Okay," and was fine the rest of the night.

By coddling kids and not being honest, you're doing more harm than not "uplifting their self-esteem." When your child fails, its your job as a parent to tell them to try harder. The word "can't" is a swear word in my house for that reason. If my daughter says, "I can't," I make her try anyways.

Great video about famous failures:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hz_s2XIAU

raydot

I feel the same way about bullying. SUDDENLY bullying is a huge problem in America. Well, I was bullied for being fat and what happened to me? I became a sassy, hilarious, fat chick who is friends to many a gay (just like most of the fat chicks I know). I didn't go kill myself or any of that crap. Kids are friggin terrible. They will always be vicious but the difference between today's children and older generations is that they don't have the coping skills to get over someone calling them "gay" or "fat *kitten*".

When I was younger, we lost every single soccer game in our league. We were losers, but it didn't stop us from playing, we just tried harder. When I got third place in the science fair I came up with a more bad-*kitten* project for next year and got first place. There were winners and losers and the losers wanted to be winners so they tried harder, got better, ran faster or whatever.

Now I'm losing weight and I have two degrees, one being a bachelors in nursing from the hardest program in the southeast United States because I was bullied and I was a loser and I had something to prove. Now those bullies are the beer-bellied frat boys with nothing better to do than go work at their dad's landscaping company because they have no skills. :drinker:

Again, it's not the same as it was before. The internet has turned kids *nasty*. Downright disgusting. With the introduction of facebook and ****, kids are confused about what is appropriate and what is too far. There has always been bullying. But today, with the anonymity one can obtain when sitting at a computer, it turns into "please just kill yourself you pathetic f*ggot" over and over and over again. And it carries on into real life.

I agree with a lot of things said here. But there's a difference between being the unpopular/fat/ugly kid in high school that learned to be interesting because people called them out or didn't get invited to parties, and attracting this bizarrely disgusting group of kids who systematically decimates certain individuals for no reasons, provoking them to take their own lives. It's not the same. I was rarely bullied in school but if I could be brought to tears seeing a total stranger get chewed out unprovoked then it's not the same as being called "a fat *kitten*".

Nucky719

In my kids schools they don't give students "F's" anymore they get "U" for unsatisfactory. I guess because the word fail is too harsh for the kids. Bull crap...you FAILED. Do better.

How old are your kids?

They are 11 and 13.

IronmanPanda

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

loser gets a blue ribbon branded directly to their corpse?

Fixed.

Double Fixed.

amac1072

I don't necessarily disagree with you OP, but what is the value of losing?

haven't checked to see if OP responded to this, but here's my take: the value of losing is learning to accept and recover from disappointment. learning that getting what one wants--to win a game, get a good grade, whatever--requires effort.

lexlowe

What are people doing to De-Sissifying America?

anubis609

What's the point of winning if everybody gets one of these.

I'm seriously starting to think that you people don't understand the psychology of developing brains.

From which psychological theory of development are you stating this?

Even psychoanalytic, psychosocial, humanistic, and cognitive theories assess development based on overall experiences and the ability to cope with failure.

Sp1nGoddess

bump......

HotBodUnderConstruction

I completely understand your point of view. In fact, when I first read this I whole-heartedly agreed with all of your claims. However, I started thinking about my own childhood experiences in school and I started to understand the other side. I was bullied...profusely by my peers, and I think that if my teachers spent a little more time encouraging me, perhaps I'd have a little more self-esteem? I don't know? Maybe. Of course, I'm an adult now and I'm in charge of building/owning myself but when I was young I didn't understand all of the negativity towards me. It was really hard to get through.

Its not your teacher's responsibility to teach you self esteem, its your parents. When my daughter is old enough to understand, she will be told she will not be punished at home if she stands up to being bullied, or someone else being bullied. Basically she better not start the fight, but she's allowed to finish it. My daughter, at 3 years old, learned that not everyone can win. She was involved in a cake walk at our church and her number wasn't picked, she whined that she didn't win, and all I told her was, "Sometimes people win, sometimes people don't." She said, "Okay," and was fine the rest of the night.

By coddling kids and not being honest, you're doing more harm than not "uplifting their self-esteem." When your child fails, its your job as a parent to tell them to try harder. The word "can't" is a swear word in my house for that reason. If my daughter says, "I can't," I make her try anyways.

Great video about famous failures:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hz_s2XIAU

Thank you, very much for clarifying for me that my parents failed. Obviously, I am very well aware the role parents are supposed to play in the development of a child's self-esteem. I was simply reflecting on an unhappy childhood and wishing someone had been there for me to at least talk to. I was not making some grand statement about what the overarching role teachers should play based on my own personal experience. I was only sharing. I'm in school currently working toward my PhD so clearly I got over it.

Meaganandcheese

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

Sooooo ... you read Hunger Games as nonfiction, then?

anubis609

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

loser gets a blue ribbon branded directly to their corpse, and a gold medal awarded to the owner of the dog that devoured the corpse?

Fixed.

Double Fixed.

Triple fixed.

iHEARTcardiacnurses

Again, it's not the same as it was before. The internet has turned kids *nasty*. Downright disgusting.

Like I said. Kids are vicious. Now instead of getting the **** beaten out of you and your glasses snapped in half, you get slammed on the internet. Either way, you're getting a beat down whether it be physical or emotional.

This is a prime example of parents not being parents and instead being friends. Be strict. HELL, my mom used to whoop me with a wooden spoon when I didn't do what she asked. I didn't even know the damn things were used for cooking until I was 10! My mom was never my best friend when I was growing up. She was a disciplinarian and that part of her still comes out even though I've grown up.

Now my friends are having kids and saying "You go do what your little heart desires" and their kids are total pansies.

TK266

What are people doing to De-Sissifying America?

Being a Scout leader. and not believing the hype.

raydot

What's the point of winning if everybody gets one of these.

I'm seriously starting to think that you people don't understand the psychology of developing brains.

From which psychological theory of development are you stating this?

Even psychoanalytic, psychosocial, humanistic, and cognitive theories assess development based on overall experiences and the ability to cope with failure.

...it's a bit of a stretch to say that for cognitive psychology.

fracturedgirl

Winning isn't everything, having fun is. My parents were like you, and they did me NO favors. The constant pressure to WIN WIN WIN, to "stand out", to "be amazing". Let kids be kids. They are already competitive in their own ways. First let them learn empathy, compassion, fairness, and when they are older they can learn the WIN WIN WIN thing. Right now, some kids are being taught the importance of empathy, compassion, fairness; but they become victims of bullies who are being taught pure competitiveness. Some of those who are being taught pure competitiveness will snap under the pressure.

It's not about a "sissifying" of the USA, but about simply letting kids enjoy their childhood. It's too short. Let them enjoy that innocent time fully, without any adult screw-ups being pushed onto them.

**in before anyone tries to snark me with that, "I hope you don't have any kids!" --- I don't. I can't have kids. Add to it, disabled people aren't allowed to adopt where I live, and voilà, none for me. I do, however, help take care of my nieces and nephews. They aren't "sissies", to use a misogynistic term, but polite, compassionate, intelligent little humans. They are competitive when they game/play, but not at the cost of harming others. They obviously are in for a challenge in an Idiocracy style world, but they'll have it made if they manage to avoid those types of people.

BigDaddyBRC

If you have kids as I do, buck the trend.

Teach your kids about life earlier, like when I was raised. It's mean, it sucks, the world is out to get you. Apply yourself to achieve excellence. You may not hit Excellence, but anything less than 100% is bull$hit. And it is not acceptable to stop there. Always search to improve yourself.

I have done rather well with this...My 15 year old daughter wants to grow up with the knowledge of a doctor, with the abilities of an assassin. God I love her for that.

Chipmaniac

In my kids schools they don't give students "F's" anymore they get "U" for unsatisfactory. I guess because the word fail is too harsh for the kids. Bull crap...you FAILED. Do better.

How old are your kids?

They are 11 and 13.

The 13 year old is in Junior High/Middle School correct? And you're saying they don't give out F's in JH/MS?

In grade school around here you get a grade of 1-4, with 3 meeting the standard, 4 above standard, and 2 below standard etc. Only when they get to JH/MS do they get "real" grades. It's been like this for a long time. It's nothing new. When I was in grade school 30 years ago we got S or U, for satisfactory or unsatisfactory and real grades didn's start until 7th grade.

IronmanPanda

I think the only real solution is... "Thunderdome!"

2 kids enter.. 1 kid leaves....

Sooooo ... you read Hunger Games as nonfiction, then?

There was a Thunderdome in Hunger Games?

raydot

Again, it's not the same as it was before. The internet has turned kids *nasty*. Downright disgusting.

Like I said. Kids are vicious. Now instead of getting the **** beaten out of you and your glasses snapped in half, you get slammed on the internet. Either way, you're getting a beat down whether it be physical or emotional.

This is a prime example of parents not being parents and instead being friends. Be strict. HELL, my mom used to whoop me with a wooden spoon when I didn't do what she asked. I didn't even know the damn things were used for cooking until I was 10! My mom was never my best friend when I was growing up. She was a disciplinarian and that part of her still comes out even though I've grown up.

Now my friends are having kids and saying "You go do what your little heart desires" and their kids are total pansies.

... and you have grown up with stunted empathetic development, this point made obvious by the fact you equate one experience with another before imaging what it feels like. When you lack empathy, you are genuinely not a nice person because you don't know how to feel for other people's pain. You cannot rationalize a kid getting his glasses broken with a shy kid being inundated with messages encouraging him to kill himself, that he is a worthless piece of crap and nobody will ever love him, especially during the period in American adolescent development where one psychologically starts to distance themselves from their parents and seek a collective identity with their peers.

It is not the same.

When a kid got their *kitten* kicked it was a generalized attack, hurtful and detrimental in itself, but still not the individual, nit-picky, unbelievably descriptive and disgustingly creative thing bullying is today. If you got beat up our teased in class at least you could commiserate with someone in person sometimes, because you could be readily aware of what was going on, and someone might occasionally stand up for you. If you're getting anonymous mortifying messages online it's not something you share with anyone, or others witness, or that you can rationalize. Some kids are more sensitive in this generation but you are more or less a heartless monster for assuming the kids that kill themselves for being bullied should be faulted, or that their parents should be faulted for not "toughening them up".

You clearly have not developed into the individual you thought you were, because from my perspective, if you *really* believe what you are saying in this regard, you immediately come off as a nasty person.

Chipmaniac

What are people doing to De-Sissifying America?

Complaining about it and claiming it's only other people that are doing it. It's the American way.

Chipmaniac

Again, it's not the same as it was before. The internet has turned kids *nasty*. Downright disgusting.

Like I said. Kids are vicious. Now instead of getting the **** beaten out of you and your glasses snapped in half, you get slammed on the internet. Either way, you're getting a beat down whether it be physical or emotional.

This is a prime example of parents not being parents and instead being friends. Be strict. HELL, my mom used to whoop me with a wooden spoon when I didn't do what she asked. I didn't even know the damn things were used for cooking until I was 10! My mom was never my best friend when I was growing up. She was a disciplinarian and that part of her still comes out even though I've grown up.

Now my friends are having kids and saying "You go do what your little heart desires" and their kids are total pansies.

... and you have grown up with stunted empathetic development because you equate one experience with another before imaging what it feels like. You cannot rationalize a kid getting his glasses broken with a shy kid being inundated with messages encouraging them to kill themselves. It is not the same. Some kids are more sensitive in this generation but you are more or less a heartless monster for assuming the kids that kill themselves for being bullied should be faulted, or that their parents should be faulted for not "toughening them up".

You clearly have not developed into the individual you thought you were, because from my perspective, if you *really* believe what you are saying in this regard, you immediately come off as a nasty person.

As a kid that was bullied and survived, you are correct and wise beyond your years. I congratulate you and your parents.

I didn't kill myself over being bullied. However that doesn't mean I'm somehow better than those that have or that we should use bullying as a form of weeding out the herd. What you said needed to be said.

thefuzz1290

Winning isn't everything, having fun is. My parents were like you, and they did me NO favors. The constant pressure to WIN WIN WIN, to "stand out", to "be amazing". Let kids be kids. They are already competitive in their own ways. First let them learn empathy, compassion, fairness, and when they are older they can learn the WIN WIN WIN thing. Right now, some kids are being taught the importance of empathy, compassion, fairness; but they become victims of bullies who are being taught pure competitiveness. Some of those who are being taught pure competitiveness will snap under the pressure.

It's not about a "sissifying" of the USA, but about simply letting kids enjoy their childhood. It's too short. Let them enjoy that innocent time fully, without any adult screw-ups being pushed onto them.

**in before anyone tries to snark me with that, "I hope you don't have any kids!" --- I don't. I can't have kids. Add to it, disabled people aren't allowed to adopt where I live, and voilà, none for me. I do, however, help take care of my nieces and nephews. They aren't "sissies", to use a misogynistic term, but polite, compassionate, intelligent little humans. They are competitive when they game/play, but not at the cost of harming others. They obviously are in for a challenge in an Idiocracy style world, but they'll have it made if they manage to avoid those types of people.

Winning at all costs is just as bad as not allowing anyone to fail, and I don't think anyone is advocating that. There has to be a healthy balance.

The book "Free Range Kids" is an excellent book on anti-helicopter parenting. The lady was the one who let her kid ride the subway in NYC by himself and has great insight on the "free range" parenting philosophy. Kids left alone to make their own choices tend to be better adjusted when they reach adult-hood. They don't freak out if they get a flat (there is nothing more embarrassing than having to change a flat tire for another capable male) and they don't shut down during confrontation.

If you study victimology (which I do as a police officer), you tend to notice most victims tend not to be "street smart" because they've never been allowed to roam the streets. I say let your kids get into fights when they're young, so if they're attacked on the they don't shut down. I say let your kid fall down and get hurt, that way they experience pain and don't shut down in a crisis situation. Let your kid fail and go to summer school, so they realize there are negative consequences to negative actions (or inactions). Let your kid take the game winning shot, and miss, so they can learn to recover from heartbreak. Don't let your kid receive an award just for showing up, because they'll start believing they're entitled to one when they grow up. If you do these things, and help guide them through these situations, you will raise a self-sufficient and independent adult.