The "Sissifying" of America...

raydot

I have to speak on behalf of the babied generation. YES the grand majority of us are whiny brats with smug senses of self entitlement that they totally do not deserve. They have been babied and are almost intolerable wusses for it. They need to learn how to lose and accept criticism. I agree with you wholeheartedly in that respect.

BUT REGARDING COLLEGE: the college process is not the same. To the university professors, I am sorry, this really is going to sound offensive for which I will admit forthright, but I have to assume you are not teaching at an upper tier school. There will inevitably be good students and bad students at every level but in order to get into prestigious universities (provided you don't have enough money to donate a hall) you have to work *hard*. I mean *hard*. This is the hardest thing my peers (middle class American high school students) will work for. I'm not kidding when I say they develop stomach ulcers, scratch themselves until they bleed, and contemplate suicide over college. The high school system is not like it used to be. It is a butt busting, brain numbing, grueling test of endurance for kids that want to get into good colleges. They *do* work hard in that respect and if they take a college level courseload, they are more than prepared for college. *Every* IB diploma student at my school has come back saying college was significantly easier than high school.

Sorry, I just wanted to say my piece. It's a little off topic but please don't equate my generation's sissy attitude with their school ethic, because I'd say half of the middle class kids go to hell and back, and end up more than prepared for the difficulty of college. They're not intellectuals, school has more or less stifled their curiosity and creativity, but they can take a college class and pass with flying colors.

DFWTT

NANNY STATE. We'll all be losers soon enough. The world owes us something and entitlements will be given to all. bbaaaaaa!

rockerbabyy

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

theres a big difference between telling your kid he sucks because hes not the best and telling him "im sorry you didnt win, maybe we can practice more" or "maybe next time" - say good job, but follow that with how they can improve if they want.
its not emotional abuse to help your kids learn that life isnt fair and not everyone will tell you "good job" when you lose. no need to get a participation ribbon/trophy - to me that just makes the winners trophy seem pointless. help your kid realize that to get what you want, you have to strive for first place and that you wont get a "ribbon" until you get there

Meaganandcheese

I don't necessarily disagree with you OP, but what is the value of losing?

Teaches the value of hard work and self-independence.

Losing can foster healthy competition and a drive to succeed. It also teaches that it's okay for someone else to get 1st place - it's okay to not always win, we all don't get all the glory all the time. This is also raising a generation of perfectionists that don't know how to handle getting anything less than an A or not getting a job, etc.

But here's the thing, kids still find a way to be competative and "win." If not at sports, the social hierarchies they create are much stricter - take bullying, for example.

Marll

This is the typical liberalism that is rotting it's way through America. Everyone in the same you see, isn't that right Comrade? God forbid that you fail at something and have to use your f**cking brain to figure out a different approach. By having all "winners" you are not only degrading what the actual winner was able to accomplish and setting up the ones that didn't do as well with an ego complex that they are great.

It later turns into bad attitudes, and over confidence. I recently ran into someone in a professional manner that provided the worst quality of work, barely even passable for what he was paid to do, and all he could say was "I worked really hard, this is my best work, I don't know what your problem is!" When I pointed out the flaws he had 100 excuses as to why it couldn't be done better. I spent a mere 10 minutes showing him how it COULD be done better and his response was "My way was good enough, your way is too much work..."

EpiGaiaRepens

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

I think you might be missing the point a little. Being told you're a failure is much different than being allowed to fail.

Maybe I am.

It's the part where the principle gave everyone a ribbon and told them they all were winners that I'm focusing on. Whatever it was, i'm sure every kid knows who "won" and who "lost" but there is benefits to being positive about plugging ahead even when you aren't on top. Even with things like marathons- hell, I consider myself a winner for finishing the goddamned thing!

I'm also focusing on all the talk about t-ball. The point of t-ball isn't to be competitive, it's to learn how to work as a team and how to play the game. I LOVED that they didn't keep score and no kid got beat up becuase his dad was absent and his mom worked all the time and so he wasn't at the same level as coaches three boys or whatever.

I'm not saying hand them a silver platter and free keys to the car and let them do whatever. But i'm not into the "LET KIDS FAIL" and calling them losers.

NicoleElen

Here's a good one, my high school student wasn't handing the work on time. Well, we go to conferences and the teacher says "He has plenty of time to make it up, I'll let him hand it in late". Hubs is like, "Fail him". Bottom line is, it affects their "numbers" if you have a bunch of kids who fail. They let him slide.

Oh, here's the new thing now you don't get zeros for not handing in work, you get 50% because it brings down the grade too much.

My Dad just tried to explain this too me a month ago and quite honestly I think the principal brain washed him because he doesn't think this way. UGHH that makes me sick

My mom is a high school teacher by day, personal trainer by night, and you bet your *kitten* she has no problem failing a kid for not doing their work. HOWEVER...the way the public education system in Texas is, teachers have almost stopped giving a *kitten* because they force the standardized testing issue down their throats and the whole "no child left behind" crap. Leave some children behind, dammit! Let teachers actually teach, make kids actually work, and if kids don't do the work, they fail. Period.

Omg, and the helicopter parents thing, my mom was a private school principal for a while and those are the WORST. She could go on for hours about those damn helicopter parents!

^^^ This. Texas has a poor excuse for an educational system.

thefuzz1290

I think it starts at the toddler age. For example, I see too many parents on the playground rushing over to help their kid who tripped and fell. I tell my daughter, to get up and deal with it, and you know what....she does. Its pitiful seeing a kid twice my daughter's age go crying to mommy or daddy when they trip and fall. You have to let kids experience falling, skinning their knees, dealing with conflict, etc. from an early age so they are prepared for the real world. Mommy and daddy aren't going to save you when your boss gets onto you about not doing your job.

Also, I bet a lot of these parents talk a good game, but I'd really be interested to see how many follow through. I've seen too many "Not My Kid" parents these days.

Meaganandcheese

Then over the PA system, the principal says "We have 2000 winners tonight, not a single loser in the bunch.".

I like this only in the sense that this was a literacy drive and that really is good for everyone.

khagador

Agreed OP. If the kid is upset about losing, it's up to the parents to talk to their child about sportsmanship and hard work. It's not only giving the kids a free pass through life, but it's giving the parents a free pass too. They never have to disappoint their child or tell him/her that he/she isn't good enough in something. I'm sure there are some things your daughter isn't as good at that some of the other kids are better at. Your daughter earned her ribbon and 3rd place because she was better-- plain and simple. The other kids need to find things that they are better at and stick with those or work harder.

EpiGaiaRepens

What's the point of winning if everybody gets one of these.

I'm seriously starting to think that you people don't understand the psychology of developing brains.

loseweightjames

no no, you're right, it's hurting the country.

they're calling it the "entitlement" generation, cuz these kids graduate and join the work force and immediately want six figures, a company car, a corner top-floor office, secretary, full benefits, a company gym, 401k, frequent bonuses, constant praise.... with only a high school diploma or bachelors degree and no work experience

and why not? they were told their whole life they're the best, each and everyone of them are the best and they're rewarded, so they think real life is like that

it's making it hard on employers, because they can't keep up the constant praise these kids require

Marll

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

Nobody is talking about belittling your kids or calling them names, or physically beating them for not winning...

The approach that should be taken is taking them aside, explaining way in which they might be able to get better, and HELP them achieve that. If they STILL suck at the task, you find ways to foster their strengths.

Growing up I was an uncoordinated mess, couldn't play sports well that involved a ball, couldn't catch, etc. But I could run FAST. I was directed by teachers towards track. By the 6th grade I was running 100m dash at about 12 seconds, I was good at it, I was by far the fastest on the team, it was something that I excelled at. An injury later in the season (tore the ligaments in my shins/calves) knocked me out of track pretty much forever. I found something else I was great at...computers. I learned all I could and enjoyed it, it's what I do for a living now. I grew out of my other uncoordinated issues and became quite athletic in high school, but still to this day fail at other things that I've never been great at, like basketball...I just do something else that I am good at.

You learn your own strengths and limitations through winning and loosing, nothing wrong with it and, like others have said, suffering builds character, don't we all want our children to grow up with good character?

bfitnbfab

In Response to getting 50% on work not turned in:
Wish my step son was in that district. In our district you get zeros and the grading system is adjusted like this:
A 92-100% Excellent Work
B+ 89-91% Above Average Work
B 83-88% Above Average Work
C+ 80-82% Average Work
C 74-79% Average Work
D+ 71-73% Below Average Work
D 65-70% Below Average Work
F Below 65% Unsatisfactory Work or Withdrew after 3rd week
WP Above 65% Withdrew during weeks 1 to 3 and Passing the course
WF Below 65% Withdrew during weeks 1 to 3 and Failing the course
NC No Credit or Excessive Absence

PlanetVelma

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

I think you might be missing the point a little. Being told you're a failure is much different than being allowed to fail.

Maybe I am.

It's the part where the principle gave everyone a ribbon and told them they all were winners that I'm focusing on. Whatever it was, i'm sure every kid knows who "won" and who "lost" but there is benefits to being positive about plugging ahead even when you aren't on top. Even with things like marathons- hell, I consider myself a winner for finishing the goddamned thing!

I'm also focusing on all the talk about t-ball. The point of t-ball isn't to be competitive, it's to learn how to work as a team and how to play the game. I LOVED that they didn't keep score and no kid got beat up becuase his dad was absent and his mom worked all the time and so he wasn't at the same level as coaches three boys or whatever.

I'm not saying hand them a silver platter and free keys to the car and let them do whatever. But i'm not into the "LET KIDS FAIL" and calling them losers.

I don't think anyone in this thread said they would call their kid "losers".

Nobody is saying you should go home and yell/berate your child. They're saying it's important that children experience what it's like to fail or even do something poorly.

It's so they can learn how to cope with failure/disappointment/ya know the negative stuff that comes with events throughout our lives.

Silver_Star

I totally agree. In Asia, kids are treated with uber discipline. If you dont win. YOU DONT WIN.
Try harder next time!!!

I think being challenged is severely downplayed in this country.

HotBodUnderConstruction

I completely understand your point of view. In fact, when I first read this I whole-heartedly agreed with all of your claims. However, I started thinking about my own childhood experiences in school and I started to understand the other side. I was bullied...profusely by my peers, and I think that if my teachers spent a little more time encouraging me, perhaps I'd have a little more self-esteem? I don't know? Maybe. Of course, I'm an adult now and I'm in charge of building/owning myself but when I was young I didn't understand all of the negativity towards me. It was really hard to get through.

delilah47

I agree. Parents and schools should make children feel special, but not to the point of making them think no matter what they do the world revolves around them and it's all a "me, me, me" world. They also need to learn the rewards of doing a genuinely good job and having empathy for others.

wbgolden

Not sure if it's been said already but the same applies to giving every kid a #1 bib at a kids' dash.

Only the winner wins. The others lose (or "defer success" lol).

Of course, without losers, there really are no winners.

sjkcarter

Omg, and the helicopter parents thing, my mom was a private school principal for a while and those are the WORST. She could go on for hours about those damn helicopter parents!
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OMG helicopter parents suck. Especially if the student is in college. We can't speak to the parents since the student is in college unless the student give us permission. This students don't know anything that is going on with their student files. They usually don't even fill out any of the paperwork themselves. I get yelled by parent becaues their child is an idiot and they don't want them to grow. Guess what student your mommy can't take the class for nor is she going to be the one interviewing for jobs when that time comes.