Views on America

boomboom011

I think viewing 'Sicko' should be required viewing before anyone comments on the state of US healthcare.

Oh, that and 'Capitalism: A Love Story" before anyone comments on the global economy. If you don't know what a Dead Pheasants Insurance Policy is you really need to learn.

Indeed. A despicable practice.

Here is a very neutral description of the Dead Peasants Life Insurance Policy:

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

i knew something was bad about him. Thanks for reminding me!

Onesnap

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.

Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.

This will shock the pants off you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/

cannonsky

Talk about preconceptions and unfounded opinions - good grief.

Anytime someone says "good grief" I hear Charlie Brown

stevenc78

.....Constitution before you decide to put it under your foot (like terrorist Bill Ayers, Obama's friend, is pictured on Time magazine in a dirty alley standing on our flag), It's call good judgement, another thing that is lacking around here too.

Stretched truths and guilt by association don't help. We as Americans do this too much to try to make our points more valid. It only enflames the other side and then its a matter of trying to top one another. Then nothing continues to get done except drive the wedge further between us. I suggest using fact checking websites to weed through the partisan BS to make a more well informed decision. Its fine to disagree with someone but to demonize and believe things that are sketchy because we want to so we can further our own ideas and beliefs is wrong.

boomboom011

question- isnt michael moore a capitalist? isnt he extremely wealthy? not sure thats why im asking

Take him out of the equation and watch the films. Then send me a PM once you've learned what goes on.

Dead Pheasants policies are real.
[/quotd

does he have anything to do with the production or making of this?

He did not invent the Dead Pheasant policy, no. I'm pretty sure it was invented by...Walmart.

it was a legit question. thanks for being so condescending. bless your heart

MaraDiaz

You and I see America in a very different way. What you do for a living does not define who you are as a person.

What you do for a living defines how much society values you, including your life. Statistically, the working poor die younger and have poorer health than the wealthy for a number of reasons. Many of those reasons are tied directly to income.

In agreement with you on all most all of your posts. Class affects every aspect of your life. Completely.

The good news is you can pull yourself out of a particular class. Ask anyone who was the first in their family to go to College (my Mom). Or someone that worked 50 years, 6 days a week for a family business (my grandparents). The American dream exists in some families. I'm lucky to be part of a family that it's real for.

I agree, that is good news. However, that does not mean we have the right to ignore the plight of those who were unlucky in that aspect.

I don't actually believe you want people to be treated as disposable just because they are unlucky or simply don't have the mental capacity or personality to succeed on the level that you do. I do however wonder if you've ever thought your educational opportunity defense through to its logical conclusion, where every American has educational opportunity and takes advantage of it. Even if there were enough high paying, skilled jobs for them to fill, someone still has to do the unskilled work.

America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.

Onesnap

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Onesnap

America tends to ignore the needs of unskilled workers. This is partly out of a culture of snobbishness (they are regularly portrayed as less able and intelligent, or as lazy, substance abusing criminals) and it is also because many don't realize how desperate their situations are.

Yep, and just as I continue to pay for 500 children of illegal immigrants to be educated in my town I also know that the US would grind to a halt without workers of all skill levels, income levels, and yes...illegals.

doorki

Exactly religion and edution should stay FAR FAR a part.

WHAT???? How, exactly, will people learn about world religions if they're not educated on them? I'm not sure I understand this statement. Unless, what you're meaning to say is that religion should not be taught in public schools.

there is a difference between teaching religion, and teaching ABOUT religion... they were referring to the former

What is the difference? Not being snarky. Trying to understand what you're saying.

I believe that the difference is that one religion should not be taught as the "proper" religion. Honestly, I think anyone's spiritual questions/quests should be their own to explore.

I've never been to any public school in the US that taught any one religion is the "proper" religion. Quite the opposite, actually. It's easy to cast rocks from across the pond but do understand this.

I came from extremely humble beginnings. I'm the first in my family to attain a degree.

I worked in a good-paying field prior to earning that degree - for 30 years. Because I put my mind to it, I advanced.

I worked in so-called unskilled fields. I learned a lot about how to make myself a more valuable employee there. I have never been mistreated in a job in the US by a corporation or company, though some men in some of the construction jobs were more raucous than I was comfortable with. I learned to deal with them effectively - without sacrificing my comfort or principles.

I prefer paying for my education because it allows me to choose which school's dogma I listen to. When your education is "free" that isn't the case. I especially like the for-profit colleges because they're focused on customer service. They know I can take my business elsewhere, and I get more respect.

I went forward and got a graduate degree - to please myself. I'm not in a job that uses that degree... yet. But I'm paying for it because (a) I wanted to, (b) I could, and (c) I know how to work hard enough to get into a job that uses that degree.

This isn't a caste system here. I don't know what you experience, but we can rise above any hardship or station in life if we choose. It's called opportunity. That's what America is about. Nobody guarantees outcomes, but you are guaranteed the opportunity to excel and advance, if you're willing to work for it.

At the end of the day, what does any of this post have to do with losing weight or becoming fit? Are you just stirring the pot to see what rises to the top? If you don't care for the things you know about America's educational system, don't apply to any of our schools. It's pretty basic and no advanced training is necessary to understand that much.

Talk about preconceptions and unfounded opinions - good grief.

uh.....I'm from the US. Went to multiple US schools. I believe the quote that you quoted was discussing education of religion and how while it is okay to teach about the world's religions that the actual teaching of what your family's belief of what is true should not be in the public schools.

I commend you on your hard work and success. While the US does not have a caste system, there is a class system. The difference being that there is little to no mobility in a caste system while there is mobility (all be it difficult) in a class system.

LizKurz

I get a little annoyed with how polarized we are over here.

Example I just got back from lunch and saw two bumper stickers:

"Don't blame me, I voted for the American"

and

"In 2012 vote American, not Socialist"

Indicating that if you aren't voting republican or have republican viewpoints, you aren't really an american.

And this is why I would love to leave. I'm embarrassed to call myself an American to anyone else in the world. And for those that offered assistance to those of us that wish to leave, I'll seriously take you up on it. Feel free to send me a pm with what you're willing to help out with. We have four kids and a mortgage. Though our house inst underwater, so buying out our mortgage wouldn't be a bad investment.

Seriously, you know what m bumper sticker says? "Obama/Biden 2012" that's it. I don't feel the need to tear anyone else down, just so i can support the moderate democrat up for reelection. As a socialist, I can tell you, he is not a socialist, and is too right winged on many issues for me. But, I know there is no other choice out there. For those that cant seem to get over the "me me me" mentality, I feel sorry for them, they're missing out on such joy in life. To me, the hive having health care is more important than my being able to own guns. The hive having equal rights regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation is more important to me than shoving my religion down everyone's throat.

When people stopped caring about the hive, in favor of more and more and more for them, and people are suffering with no food, no place to live and no access to affordable health care, this country turned south for the sh!tter.

When there are 18 million vacant foreclosed homes in this country, and only 3.5 million homeless people yet, we can't as a country come together to house them and get them back on their feet, yeah, it's kinda disgusting to me.

You sure talk about "The Hive" a lot. We are not bees, we are not all the same, we are individuals.

Yes, the hive. I of course was speaking of a hive of bees. My words had no metaphorical meaning at all

/sarcasm

It's mentality like that, forsaking everyone else so you and yours (the general you and yours) can have more and more and more that I can't get on board with. Until everyone in this country has access to food, healthcare, shelter and equal rights, I can't do anything but roll my eyes when people get on thier soapbox about how the Ebil Libruls are coming to take their guns.

And speaking again of guns....

I just got back from the store. For those of you that have complained about those on WIC and food stamps and are buying things you don't agree with, or have things you don't agree with, the man in front of me had two kids, and two shopping carts full. He used his food stamp card for the groceries, and cashed 2 WIC checks. He also had four boxes of .9 ammunition. My first though was ".christ almighty, I'm so glad my taxes go to make sure this man can have his guns" and then my second thought was, "well maybe he uses the guns to hunt for his meat."

It's really easy to get caught up in the "I don't agree with it, so it's wrong" mentality. But it's not my place to judge this man, I'm glad he can feed the two kids he had with him, and if my tax dollars help him, well that's even better. Even if he uses the ammo for fun, like target practice or something, I'm glad my tax dollars can be used to make sure another family is fed, and he deserves some fun too.

cannonsky

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.

k8blujay2

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.

Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.

This will shock the pants off you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/

I don't have to... I know we are not any more or less safe than we were 11 years ago... Even after 9/11 and all the terrorist plots between then and now, we are more likely to be hit by lightning... TWICE... in our lives than to be on an airplane used in a terrorist plot (including highjackings).

Onesnap

A ring of crack-buyers (paying in food stamps) was busted up earlier this year. It happens.

boomboom011

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.

what? Americans can read? :drinker:

Onesnap

Yes, yes he is. He's just one that hides behind fear mongering and political rhetoric to make his money. Last I checked he wasn't taking the time to help the poor and needy. He's just a fat sack of crap that makes money misinforming and distorting the truth.

step away from the filmmaker and do some real research.

Oh, and while we're at it...watch the study called "Are we Safer?" a really amazing look at the US post 9/11 and nothing to do with any filmmaker, thin, fat or otherwise.

This will shock the pants off you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/

I don't have to... I know we are not any more or less safe than we were 11 years ago... Even after 9/11 and all the terrorist plots between then and now, we are more likely to be hit by lightning... TWICE... in our lives than to be on an airplane used in a terrorist plot (including highjackings).

Actually you do have to. I'm serious. It will show you things you had NO IDEA WERE EVEN GOING ON.

cannonsky

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.

what? Americans can read? :drinker:

the one's that can afford a higher education.... BAZINGA!

boomboom011

Nope, sorry, you cannot take a film director out of the equation of a documentary film... because that documentary is based on their view of the world and it's problems.... it doesn't make it true or thought provoking just to say "forget Michael Moore wrote it, directed it, and produced it"

Take his viewpoint as one viewpoint. Take what was shown in movies he made like Fahrenheit 911. Take the lessons learned in 'Sicko' and 'Roger and Me' and decide for yourself.

Don't let any filmmaker influence you.

Do the research yourself. Take the topics and spend a half hour and decide for yourself.

So yes, the filmmaker can be taken out of the equation.

I could argue this all day long.

Or.. OR!! You could read a book by a professionals in that given field.

what? Americans can read? :drinker:

the one's that can afford a higher education.... BAZINGA!

the elite I take it?
wait, i can read. im not rich. um i went to public school. STEREOTYPE DESTROYED!

ginamcoyle

I think the education system over there needs to be a lot better and they need to increase the opportunities available for the lower classes; a university education is practically unreachable. If I were living in the US I would be screwed because I come from a very working class background and in a country as developed as America I don't think that's right. The overflowing prisons and gang culture speak for themselves in regards to the quality of the education system and what help there is (or lack of it.)

A university education is actually quite attainable, and rapidly becoming worthless. Grad school is what is difficult to obtain access to and funds for.

Also, even if every American had a graduate degree, there aren't enough jobs that require them. The real issue isn't educational opportunities, it's the treatment of workers in all jobs. Even unskilled workers deserve a decent standard of living, but because the minimum wage is not a living wage, because so many jobs have been outsourced, and because services for those in need are not readily available, most unskilled workers live very precarious lives. Providing for all instead of for an elite few is where our society fails.

I don't just mean university, I mean both higher and further education. It seems to be either you have a degree or nothing; there is no middle ground. We have ex-polytechnics and further educational colleges all over the UK and you get full funding over here so there's no money to pay whatsoever. The quality of the student loans over there just aren't up to par. My friend went to university in the US and she asked for assistance with funding and they told her to go to a loan shark. We don't even have those over here in the first place and I really think that is testament to the quality of the student loans systems and also just funding for poorer people in general.

Not only that but in order to qualify for financial aid BOTH of your parents can't make a certain amount of money (I forget how much it is) regardless of your relationship with your parents, why is it that my parents are expected to pay for MY college education? and on top of that any realistic scholarship that I attemtpt to apply for I need to come from a latino or african american background. Are you kidding me? My father is a Veteran and makes just enough money to get by, my mother died when I was young, and every semester I am continuely denied for any sort of financial assistance. and the only way to get around this is if I am independent. You can't be independent unless your 25+ or married according to financial aid. So yeah I would have to say this system is messed up.

boomboom011

wait all the non-americans have left this thread and now the americans are fighting amongst themselves.

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no more!

Onesnap

Not only that but in order to qualify for financial aid BOTH of your parents can't make a certain amount of money (I forget how much it is) regardless of your relationship with your parents, why is it that my parents are expected to pay for MY college education? and on top of that any realistic scholarship that I attemtpt to apply for I need to come from a latino or african american background. Are you kidding me? My father is a Veteran and makes just enough money to get by, my mother died when I was young, and every semester I am continuely denied for any sort of financial assistance. and the only way to get around this is if I am independent. You can't be independent unless your 25+ or married according to financial aid. So yeah I would have to say this system is messed up.

My parents did not pay for my education.

The tax dollars in my state did.

My Dad works for the state university in my state. I paid for grad school myself, our tax dollars paid for my undergrad.

How 'bout them apples?