Does this constitute cheating to you?
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He's not supposed to be watching porno until AFTER he is married. I would dump him.0
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I haven't got angry at him at all, I just feel really weary and disappointed. It probably doesn't help that I didn't sleep at all last night really.
He is giving himself a hard time, but so he should. I've said we will talk about it after work.
I am just gutted because we have been planning our wedding and he has been at least as excited as I have, which hasn't been the case with some of my friends when they have been planning a wedding. Now whatever happens, the sheen has been taken off it for me.
I'm with some of the others who say porn is one thing, but actively interacting with a real life person, basically only seperated by a computer screen, is a lot worse than just watching porn on TV.
It just makes me really sad.
I'm so sorry for you. That is so hurtful...I couldn't even imagine how hurt you must be.
I think its disgusting tbh. Its unfair for him to do that to you. He has a beautiful woman (you) that can do to him what he pays for some skank to do. I think its shocking. And while you's are planning your wedding! What a joker. It does not count as porn. ITS NOT PRE MADE. He is asking some woman to do **** so he can get off over it. Why doesn't he ask you! YOU are his FIANCE! so people saying its only porn blah blah, well its not. its a complete betrayal of trust and I think its bang out of order.0 -
This is not something to be discussed in this type of forum. This is something that should be kept between the 2 of you and your family.
Sometimes it can be embarrassing or degrading to yourself (this topic specifically) to ask family/friends what they think or to get an honest opinion. And theres also the chance it gets out and now the whole town knos her personal life....I kno when I want the brutal truth there's not many friends I could turn to that won't just agree with me or sugar coat the truth. She's just fine in this forum, after all it's an off topic forum!0 -
It would bother me that he hadn't just told me upfront but that would be the only thing that would bother me. Porn is all well and good but some people like something a little more personally catered.0
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It doesn't really matter what any of us think or would count as cheating. Only you can really know if you feel betrayed by his act or not or whether it was within your accpetable boundaries.0
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It's cheating. There is a difference between watching porn on a video and paying woman to strip/talk dirty to you. People can try to justify it anyway they want but there is no excuse for being on adult sites and talking dirty and looking at other men/women doing sexual acts (unless you are single and trying to get your jollies)0
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Sometimes actions speak louder than words. He took things into his own hands (literally) and doesn't sound like he was much of a friend or lover. I wouldn't wait around for his excuses. If you want to gamble with the person you love, you must be prepared to lose them. There are some things that you can't talk your way out of. At any rate, it should be him trying to explain himself, not her coddling him for answers. She has already had to deal with enough of his "soft side." I think it is him that needs to grow up.DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?0 -
I thought I'd share my two cents... although keep in mind this is coming from a gay guy, so I tend to empathize more with women than I do with men. (Except in this case, apparently)
I don't see anything wrong with the webcam situation... to me, it's just another form of porn. Yes, it may be live and interactive people instead of pictures or videos, but it's still a woman selling her body that anyone can see if they are willing to pay. It's not like she and your fiancee have a close and intimate relationship.
While I don't see anything wrong with the webcam issue on the surface, I do agree that it presents a problem that he is enjoying that but not enjoying you. Although, this isn't something to get angry about, IMHO. It takes two to tango... so you both need to actively engage with each other to build and keep your intimacy. I'm not saying you did or didn't try, but I'm trying to say that you two need to be on the same level and agree that you both want the same things. Instead of being pissed that he was watching another woman on webcam, I think you should calmly try to discuss why he seeks that attention elsewhere when he doesn't seem interested in attention from you.
However, searching for local women is something different. I don't find that acceptable, but as another guy said, you won't get very far by shouting and accusing. Speak to him like an adult, not a 5 year old who just broke your vase. Yes, it was wrong, and it was a betrayal of trust... but if you truly love and care about him and want to make it work... remember that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.
I hope this didn't sound judgemental because I'm truly just trying to help... I think you may still be very caught up in the moment and it may behoove you to let your emotions subside a little before having these difficult conversations. I wish you the best and hope you guys work this out!0 -
DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?
:noway:
i don't think the op's issue is as much the porn as the documented emails to local escorts.
but anyhoo, why should it be her responsiblity to listen to him rattle off a bunch of excuses and justifications now? why shouldn't he be expected to be the adult - to initiate a conversation about his problem, come clean with her and suggest therapy on his own, not just because he got caught with his pants down?
"guys have feelings too."
are you kidding me? no *kitten*. gah.0 -
...think of it this way. What would you have done had he come to you before he started doing this and told you... "I am going to start paying women to do sexual stuff for me online."?
How would you have reacted to that... I think this is where your answer is because if you take away all that anger at the perceived betrayal this is what you're left with!
For the record, any man who actually would speak up and come to his woman and say "I'd like to start paying for online jollies" deserves a peep show a week for a year like a fruit basket or a sausage basket.. depending on what he's peeping at.
Sucks he didn't feel like he could do that! I feel for ya! *Stranger Online Hug*0 -
THIS, in a nutshell. If my boyfriend was watching porn, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. But if he was on a live, payed webcam, that's a whole different story.My rule of thumb is, if you have to hide it from your spouse then you shouldn't be doing it.
If I caught my husband watching porn, I wouldn't care.
But if I caught him paying for a live webcam show, I'd kill him.
As someone upthread pointed out, we could sit around all day debating whether or not this is cheating. My view? It's not *technically* cheating, but it's a very slippery slope. The fact that he's looking for escorts in your area is very bad, but I don't know what advice to give you. I was in a similar situation many years ago. The now ex-boyfriend in question kept going to the same strip club over and over. It didn't bother me at first - until one of the strippers called him at home, and I answered. When he got the message, he was all "Oh, no no, no, we just want to hang out, that's all". I dumped him that evening, because regardless of whether or not he had actually cheated on me, it was heading in that direction. And the one thing that really gives me pause about your situation is that he's seeking out escorts in your area.
Just think this through very carefully, and we're here for you.0 -
And again, to everyone else...I don't condone what she said he's done...regardless of whether the act itself is cheating, IF he did what it is she says he did behind her back it's wrong. I simply refuse to judge it other than to tell her only she can choose, and all the 'help' she gets from all these people online...isn't going to help her a bit.
I've posted and read plenty of responses that remain neutral and don't go down the "Oh, girlfriend! He's so cheating on you! Dump the loser now!" rabbit hole. Maybe give the OP some credit to be able to read through the thread and sort out what is actually decent advice and what is just people jumping to conclusions/judgments? You can't stop those posts from happening, but not everyone is going to blindly follow every bit of "advice" they're given on the interwebs, ya know.0 -
DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?
:noway:
i don't think the op's issue is as much the porn as the documented emails to local escorts.
but anyhoo, why should it be her responsiblity to listen to him rattle off a bunch of excuses and justifications now? why shouldn't he be expected to be the adult - to initiate a conversation about his problem, come clean with her and suggest therapy on his own, not just because he got caught with his pants down?
"guys have feelings too."
are you kidding me? no *kitten*. gah.
Therapy!! Wow some people scare me! You want to get everyone who does something you don't agree with, that isn't that out of the ordinary, down to the shrinks
I think this thread is becoming a fight between liberals who talk logical sense and the narrow minded that quite frankly I'm glad I don't have to deal with.0 -
DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?
:noway:
i don't think the op's issue is as much the porn as the documented emails to local escorts.
but anyhoo, why should it be her responsiblity to listen to him rattle off a bunch of excuses and justifications now? why shouldn't he be expected to be the adult - to initiate a conversation about his problem, come clean with her and suggest therapy on his own, not just because he got caught with his pants down?
"guys have feelings too."
are you kidding me? no *kitten*. gah.
Therapy!! Wow some people scare me! You want to get everyone who does something you don't agree with, that isn't that out of the ordinary, down to the shrinks
I think this thread is becoming a fight between liberals who talk logical sense and the narrow minded that quite frankly I'm glad I don't have to deal with.
point #1: i never suggested therapy. the post i quoted suggested the couple "start classes", which sounds like therapy to me.
point #2: porn flicks are not that out of the ordinary. contacting local escorts, on the other hand is generally not what one would expect for a happily engaged fellow.
point #3: politics and porno don't mix, so why try? but since you brought it up, are you suggesting that most liberals would be fine with this situation, and that anyone who would expect their significant other to not stray is narrow minded? just curious.0 -
DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?
:noway:
i don't think the op's issue is as much the porn as the documented emails to local escorts.
but anyhoo, why should it be her responsiblity to listen to him rattle off a bunch of excuses and justifications now? why shouldn't he be expected to be the adult - to initiate a conversation about his problem, come clean with her and suggest therapy on his own, not just because he got caught with his pants down?
"guys have feelings too."
are you kidding me? no *kitten*. gah.
Ok to refute your points logically 1 by 1...
Firstly, the OP referred to her SO looking up local people who were mostly local escorts. She even went on to suggest that he had not actually communicated with anyone. In addition to this; a lot of sites instantly come up trying to con you with the promise of local sex so it could be she is misreading the internet history.
Secondly - it is not her responsibility, you are quite correct. However, since they are engaged and she has taken the time to write this post, I think it is safe to assume she loves for this guy. She should WANT to help him. If she doesn't want to, then perhaps that answers a few questions right up front.
Thirdly, if you re-read my post, you will see that I say "So often guys can't tell their side cos women...tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it."0 -
DUMP HIM - SCREW THAT GUY - BLAH BLAH BLAH
Yea, just cos you're engaged, throw that away cos he watches porn...
How about you act like a grown up and talk to him about it. Don't accuse - don't berate, don't shout. He has a side too. So often guys can't tell their side cos women (and I'm sorry that this is a crass generalisation, but the stereotype exists for a reason...) tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it. This means we never bother speaking to you about our thoughts and feelings because we know how you're going to react.
You're meant to be friends as well as lovers - so be his friend and speak to him. In fact you should hardly be speaking to be honest - I actually mean - initiate the conversation and let him speak...and please I can't say it enough - try not to take it personally - even if it seems personal...guys have feelings too.
This thread (and many others on MFP) serve to highlight how little women understand men. There are exceptions where I have seen many women on here posting lucid, considered, logical answers and I'm pretty sure they will know who they are, but unfortunately those women are in the minority...maybe you guys should start classes...?
:noway:
i don't think the op's issue is as much the porn as the documented emails to local escorts.
but anyhoo, why should it be her responsiblity to listen to him rattle off a bunch of excuses and justifications now? why shouldn't he be expected to be the adult - to initiate a conversation about his problem, come clean with her and suggest therapy on his own, not just because he got caught with his pants down?
"guys have feelings too."
are you kidding me? no *kitten*. gah.
Ok to refute your points logically 1 by 1...
Firstly, the OP referred to her SO looking up local people who were mostly local escorts. She even went on to suggest that he had not actually communicated with anyone. In addition to this; a lot of sites instantly come up trying to con you with the promise of local sex so it could be she is misreading the internet history.
Secondly - it is not her responsibility, you are quite correct. However, since they are engaged and she has taken the time to write this post, I think it is safe to assume she loves for this guy. She should WANT to help him. If she doesn't want to, then perhaps that answers a few questions right up front.
Thirdly, if you re-read my post, you will see that I say "So often guys can't tell their side cos women...tend to get uptight and upset if a guy explains his problems. Instead of wanting to help with them a lot of women will take it as a personal insult and have a go at the guy about it."
okay, i can go with point #1.
point #2: i can go with wanting to help someone you love, so long as they want to help themselves. and there are way too many factors involved to even go into that, really. but, for me, "helping" does not mean trying to make your partner feel better when they feel guilty for hurting you. that doesn't help either party - just grows resentment.
point #3: still not sure about this one. if i take something as personal from my husband, or anyone else, it's because it is. maybe i don't fall into the category your talking about. i'm not the type to get upset if a woman with an impressive rack walks by and husband noticed. because i probably noticed too. that's not something i would take personally. but dishonesty is a big no-no, and not being man enough to 'fess up when you mess up - those kinds of things i take personally.0 -
4. Your "personal tie" to the topic of cheating IS relevant because it brings YOUR biases to light.
6. If you have a problem with the way I respond to posts, message me personally. I will be more than happy to argue with you in private...
The rest isn't really very relevant anymore...but as to these two points...first, if my 'personal tie' was cheating, I'd be ranting against him like everyone else, not recommending a more neutral course...and while your final point might have been reasonable...you could very easily have followed your own advice lol.
:flowerforyou:
Message on its way...
Edit: I decline his flower peace-offering.
I've received no message...but really, don't bother. The flower wasn't a peace offering...I just hate arguing with pretty women. Even self righteous hypocritical ones.
It goes against my upbringing.
Seriously, check your inbox and look for the email entitled "Grouchbag..."
EDIT: (my proof)
To: crisanderson27
Sent: Tue 05/01/12 06:15 PM
Subject: Grouchbag...
The next time you get sand in your vagina, try working out...it's a much better way to vent your frustration. Oh, and you can have your flower back; I don't want it.
First...I never got that message (not saying you didn't send it, I just never received it).
Second...do you really think anyone cares if you sent me a message?...I KNOW they don't care if I received it or not. I mean, I don't even care...and it was sent to me.
Third...I feel like I should be saying 'I know you are but what am I?!? I understand that being a grade school teacher, this is the kind of thing you deal with on a daily basis...but please, leave it where it belongs...don't bring it to an adult forum.
At least the posts I was making, despite how much they clearly bothered you...were relevant.0 -
point #3: still not sure about this one. if i take something as personal from my husband, or anyone else, it's because it is. maybe i don't fall into the category your talking about. i'm not the type to get upset if a woman with an impressive rack walks by and husband noticed. because i probably noticed too. that's not something i would take personally. but dishonesty is a big no-no, and not being man enough to 'fess up when you mess up - those kinds of things i take personally.
I read point #3 to mean more in the lines with an addiction or fetish or some other sex-related issue. IME, a guy doesn't open up about stuff like that b/c women don't tend to react/respond well. They end up personalizing/internalizing it instead of being able to separate themselves from the issue and addressing the issue.0 -
point #3: still not sure about this one. if i take something as personal from my husband, or anyone else, it's because it is. maybe i don't fall into the category your talking about. i'm not the type to get upset if a woman with an impressive rack walks by and husband noticed. because i probably noticed too. that's not something i would take personally. but dishonesty is a big no-no, and not being man enough to 'fess up when you mess up - those kinds of things i take personally.
I read point #3 to mean more in the lines with an addiction or fetish or some other sex-related issue. IME, a guy doesn't open up about stuff like that b/c women don't tend to react/respond well. They end up personalizing/internalizing it instead of being able to separate themselves from the issue and addressing the issue.
"i see!" said the blind man as he picked up a hammer and saw.
ooh. fetishes and the like. hmm.
that's a whole'n'other can of worms!0 -
I understand that being a grade school teacher, this is the kind of thing you deal with on a daily basis...but please, leave it where it belongs...don't bring it to an adult forum.
that was naughty of you. now i'm going to have to send you to the corner.
0
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