Vegetarians and vegans. Controversial Topic

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Replies

  • stargazer008
    stargazer008 Posts: 531
    I'm vegetarian myself though I would never go up to someone and say that because it is none of my business on what another eats. I'm glad you made that women shut!
  • Chipmaniac
    Chipmaniac Posts: 642 Member
    I don't care how people get their nutrients, just as long as they do. The simple fact remains, humans wouldn't have the digestive enzymes for metabolizing animal meat if we weren't meant to eat them. Lest we forget our CANINE teeth? We are omnivores--plain and simple. But, just because we are meant to eat meat doesn't mean we have to. No reason to rage, either way.
    We also have a lizard brain as is demonstrated regularly in these forums.

    Actually, our teeth are made for grinding, not ripping like true carnivores. That's why they are mostly flat. Compare your teeth to your dog's and you will understand.
  • marmitegirly2
    marmitegirly2 Posts: 35 Member
    I don't care how people get their nutrients, just as long as they do. The simple fact remains, humans wouldn't have the digestive enzymes for metabolizing animal meat if we weren't meant to eat them. Lest we forget our CANINE teeth? We are omnivores--plain and simple. But, just because we are meant to eat meat doesn't mean we have to. No reason to rage, either way.

    A voice of reason! I'm veggie (20 years now) because I saw a documentary about how animals were really killed for meat and at the time I believe there was not the same consideration for animal welfare or RSPCA freedom food etc. That said, my hubby and children are meat lovers and I happily cook it for them - it's their choice.

    I agree, we are designed to eat meat so I don't have a problem with those that do, it's just not for me. If anything I would change as it's embarrassing being the odd one out or the one with the special diet at weddings etc, but to be honest, I've been this way for all of my adult life and I think I would freak if I ate meat again!

    I would also reiterate that the woman in the OP was rude and that I get some grief off of people saying I should just shove a burger down my throat and be done with it - I would not dream of imposing my views and choices on them. I guess, like everything, it comes down to respect and tolerance, sadly missing in a lot of people today.

    Enjoy your dinners everyone, whatever they may be!
  • EpiGaiaRepens
    EpiGaiaRepens Posts: 824 Member
    I"m a vegetarian. The reasons are complex:

    (1) resources: how much land is used to grow food to feed cows so we can eat cows? As someone who studied wildlife management, I can say that a landbase has a limit for how much life it can support. If this is true for landbases, it's true globally. I personally feel that if I don't need to eat meat and I can survive just fine on 1/4 of the resources I would use if I were a meat eater, then it's my moral and ethical duty to do so.

    (2) spirituality: I love animals. I believe animals feel pain and are sentient beings, just as I am. While I do not believe that it is ethically wrong to eat meat, I think as a human with a conscience and a choice, it is my moral and ethical duty to not participate in causing more pain than is neceesary for animals as well as people. (Note: a lot of people say "but you are killing the carrot!" Yes. I kill carrots. Carrots do not have pain receptor neurons, nor a brain to interpret that pain, nor the consciousness with which to experience that pain.)

    (3) Health. I do believe it is healthier to eat a vegetarian diet for two main reasons: First, bioaccumulation of environmental toxins is a fact. Eating organic meat does not eliminate this problem (enviornmental toxins travel, though I still opt to purchase organic products so as to not economically support the spread of envrionmental toxins). Second, my twin brother died of a heart attack at the age of 24 with veins that were plugged with cholesterol. Cholesterol is strictly an animal product (being animals, we also create our own cholesterol, but we also consume it). There are also parasites and diseases (like mad cow disease which is a protein that cannot be cooked out of your food) which are more risky in meat eating. And it's higher in fat than vegetarian diets.

    Now that I'm into heavy lifting, I see how animal products are better in terms of having enough protein in ones diet, but it can be done on a vegetarian or vegan diet as well.

    I also agree that the woman was rude. I've seen that behavior a million times, and I'll tell you what she is:

    A NEWBY

    Only newly vegan/vegetarian people act like that. It becomes the entirity of their identity for a good while. Eventually they get over it.
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    Lest we forget our CANINE teeth?

    All mammals have canines, even cows and horses.
  • thiscanbedone
    thiscanbedone Posts: 73 Member
    I was vegetarian for about 12 years and have now been a mostly-vegetarian omnivore for about as long. In my time as a vegetarian I met many, many more preachy meat-eaters than I did preachy vegetarians. As a vegetarian I constantly heard comments like "you eat tofu, gross" and "being a vegetarian is so stupid, we were meant to eat animals," "why would you want to do that to yourself" etc. Since beginning to eat meat again, I have eaten meat in front of any number of vegetarians and vegans and heard not a word of criticism.

    Of course, there are preachy people of all sorts, and that woman you met was incredibly rude. However, since meat-eating is the norm in this country, I think you'll find that it's vegetarians and vegans who are more often accosted for their food choices.

    Edited to add: I love that you call vegetarianism "madness" in a post where you are claiming harassment from a vegetarian for your personal eating choices.
    This!
  • EpiGaiaRepens
    EpiGaiaRepens Posts: 824 Member

    If you work with animals its the other way around. Vegans and vegetarians are very much in your face when you're in an animal field and they also try to legislate their way of life.

    whoa now! hold the horse! (haha no pun intended!)

    Couldn't I just as easily say the meat industry legislates my life? I don't support the meat industry, and yet my taxes go to subsidize it. Not something I want to do, but it is happening regardless of how I feel about it.
  • Masterdo
    Masterdo Posts: 331 Member
    I always find those situations funny. Everyone traces lines in their morals, I mean everyone.

    Everyone on the thread that followed the "I don't want to eat my pets" type of thinking could push the reasoning further and worry about the ethics of keeping them captive to begin with, most of the time sterilizing them, etc. Sure they are treated well, but those animals are put completely out of their natural habitat, purely for our entertainment. Surely, freedom counts for something? Yet we take that away from pets without second thoughts.

    That would be just an example, but a PETA freak could have yelled at that vegetarian in that restaurant, and probably that vegetarian girl would have just thought "who cares about that anyway?", without even realizing the irony of the situation.

    Yup, people have elastic morals and try to clumsily impose them on other people.
  • EpiGaiaRepens
    EpiGaiaRepens Posts: 824 Member
    I always find those situations funny. Everyone traces lines in their morals, I mean everyone.

    Everyone on the thread that followed the "I don't want to eat my pets" type of thinking could push the reasoning further and worry about the ethics of keeping them captive to begin with, most of the time sterilizing them, etc. Sure they are treated well, but those animals are put completely out of their natural habitat, purely for our entertainment. Surely, freedom counts for something? Yet we take that away from pets without second thoughts.

    That would be just an example, but a PETA freak could have yelled at that vegetarian in that restaurant, and probably that vegetarian girl would have just thought "who cares about that anyway?", without even realizing the irony of the situation.

    Yup, people have elastic morals and try to clumsily impose them on other people.

    I hate PETA with a passion.

    Also, "enslavement" of pets? Really? Do parents also "enslave" their children? Pets (dogs, cats) are domesticated animals. And their cuteness and domestication is their best survival skill. Those animals would die without us as slaves to their cuteness and cuddles.

    Fish and birds, maybe they are captives. But my dog runs the house!
  • thiscanbedone
    thiscanbedone Posts: 73 Member
    Loved it!... Thanks.
    I"m a vegetarian. The reasons are complex:

    (1) resources: how much land is used to grow food to feed cows so we can eat cows? As someone who studied wildlife management, I can say that a landbase has a limit for how much life it can support. If this is true for landbases, it's true globally. I personally feel that if I don't need to eat meat and I can survive just fine on 1/4 of the resources I would use if I were a meat eater, then it's my moral and ethical duty to do so.

    (2) spirituality: I love animals. I believe animals feel pain and are sentient beings, just as I am. While I do not believe that it is ethically wrong to eat meat, I think as a human with a conscience and a choice, it is my moral and ethical duty to not participate in causing more pain than is neceesary for animals as well as people. (Note: a lot of people say "but you are killing the carrot!" Yes. I kill carrots. Carrots do not have pain receptor neurons, nor a brain to interpret that pain, nor the consciousness with which to experience that pain.)

    (3) Health. I do believe it is healthier to eat a vegetarian diet for two main reasons: First, bioaccumulation of environmental toxins is a fact. Eating organic meat does not eliminate this problem (enviornmental toxins travel, though I still opt to purchase organic products so as to not economically support the spread of envrionmental toxins). Second, my twin brother died of a heart attack at the age of 24 with veins that were plugged with cholesterol. Cholesterol is strictly an animal product (being animals, we also create our own cholesterol, but we also consume it). There are also parasites and diseases (like mad cow disease which is a protein that cannot be cooked out of your food) which are more risky in meat eating. And it's higher in fat than vegetarian diets.

    Now that I'm into heavy lifting, I see how animal products are better in terms of having enough protein in ones diet, but it can be done on a vegetarian or vegan diet as well.

    I also agree that the woman was rude. I've seen that behavior a million times, and I'll tell you what she is:

    A NEWBY

    Only newly vegan/vegetarian people act like that. It becomes the entirity of their identity for a good while. Eventually they get over it.
  • gogojodee
    gogojodee Posts: 1,243 Member
    I was vegan for years, til I was skinny fat and on top of that a teenager and an even pickier eater than I am now.

    I've been non vegan for 10 years now and I'm leaning on going back to a vegan lifestyle again. I get tired of eating meat, the taste and the texture. I think butter, cheese and chicken will be hard to give up again. I gave up cheese and butter cold turkey last time, and I think I'm going to have to do it that way again.

    Since I've been monitoring my food and "entering" in what I eat, it's made me become more aware and I feel sad when I eat, because half the time, if it's protein I'm eating, whether it's eggs or chicken...it had a mom at some point. So that's how I feel about that. :\
  • futuremalestripper
    futuremalestripper Posts: 467 Member
    My views are somewhat formed by the culture I was exposed to when I was younger. In my hometown, there was a large Native American population as well as a lot of teaching in grade school about their beliefs and traditions. The neighboring tribes believed that it was fine to eat animals, but the death had to be quick, the animal must be thanked and prayed for, and nothing may go to waste. My view follows that same logic. Meat is fine, but go through companies that are respectful of each animal. That goes for more than just food, for example animal testing. For that reason, I only buy products through companies that don't test on animals.
    Where I grew up, they have free-range animals that are free until the day before slaughter. It's quick, you pick the animal, and you have the control of what is done with the animal so there is as little wasted as possible.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
    My views are somewhat formed by the culture I was exposed to when I was younger. In my hometown, there was a large Native American population as well as a lot of teaching in grade school about their beliefs and traditions. The neighboring tribes believed that it was fine to eat animals, but the death had to be quick, the animal must be thanked and prayed for, and nothing may go to waste. My view follows that same logic. Meat is fine, but go through companies that are respectful of each animal. That goes for more than just food, for example animal testing. For that reason, I only buy products through companies that don't test on animals.
    Where I grew up, they have free-range animals that are free until the day before slaughter. It's quick, you pick the animal, and you have the control of what is done with the animal so there is as little wasted as possible.

    I totally respect this. Very sensible.
  • Masterdo
    Masterdo Posts: 331 Member

    I hate PETA with a passion.

    Also, "enslavement" of pets? Really? Do parents also "enslave" their children? Pets (dogs, cats) are domesticated animals. And their cuteness and domestication is their best survival skill. Those animals would die without us as slaves to their cuteness and cuddles.

    Fish and birds, maybe they are captives. But my dog runs the house!

    Oh, I like pets, and treat them very well, don't get me wrong. But a very solid ethical argumentation could be made against that concept, and I could not say that the person defending that point of view would be completely wrong. Just like with vegetarianism. The fact that it's a matter of points of views was the point I was trying to make.

    The important thing is to make choices that you feel good about. And "feel" is the important notion. Because like it or not, if you are born in North America, thousands and thousands of people, and even more animals, will die as a direct result of our lifestyles.
  • FeatherBoBeather
    FeatherBoBeather Posts: 255 Member
    It's interesting reading 'vegetarians and vegans are so pretentious' and other similar statements...
    So typical damning a whole group for the acting out of one extremist.
    This applies to any group that has ever existed; there are always going to be those who go off of the deep end and ruin the name of the 'organization' for the rest. It's no better than saying 'Americans are so fat and lazy'. Great, thanks- so basically everyone is now categorized under one label. That sure seams reasonable. (Please insert loads of sarcasm here.)

    I'm a vegetarian from birth; my parents raised me from the beginning without meat. To clarify; I'm considered an 'ovo-lacto' vegetarian. I eat unfertilized eggs and cheese products. I can tell you as a kid it wasn't easy to feel like the odd one out. All of my friends and classmates questioned why I wasn't allowed to eat 'standard' things like pepperoni pizza at a birthday party, or pumpkin shaped jello (gelatin) on Halloween. Not exactly an easy concept to explain to other 6 and 7 year olds... One thing I know for sure is that my parents raised me with a conscience. They asked me not to eat meat and I listened. I was told that I was free to make my own decisions about my eating habits when I was a legal adult at 18. I have respect for my parents and logically, this makes sense; just as a parent would control whether their child dyes their hair or gets a tattoo. Once a legal adult, all aspects of life become a personal choice.

    By 14-16 I began questioning all of my own beliefs and those my parents taught me. This is when I really started to develop reasoning for staying vegetarian. My first reason was because of the fact that the society I live in can easily support a healthy vegetarian diet; the slaughtering of animals is no longer necessary to sustain humans. I can get just as much healthy proteins from whole grains, beans, tofu, nuts, meat substitutes, and eggs. When all of these things are readily available (and delicious), why would I support the meat industry?

    My second reason, and what I'm personally finding to be even more important than the first, is the way in which most animals are raised, processed, and slaughtered. Upon extensive research of these things, it's become apparent that almost all name-brand meats which are not locally raised and/or organic abuse the animals in the process. Both in life and death; cattle for example are most commonly fed corn. This can lead to serious health problems which results in an unhealthy life and majorly increases risks of diseased meats. I can go on about this.. but there's plenty of research, articles, and videos about this that (if anyone is interested) can be easily obtained online or through libraries. ... I don't even want to think about the manner in which chickens are raised and processed for meat.. here's a small insight:
    http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/chicken.htm

    My third reason is because of the affects meat has long-term on your body. I highly recommend anyone interested look into http://www.forksoverknives.com/ and most importantly, http://www.thechinastudy.com/ <----

    I am a strong believer in 'to each their own'. I choose ovo-lacto vegetarianism because I believe in the principles for myself. I believe that it makes my body healthier and it takes a load off of my conscience when it comes to things like the deaths of sentient beings. My fiance is an omnivore and eats meat on a semi-regular basis, although chooses local and organic options. I love him with all of my heart and his eating habits could not change that. Neither do the eating habits of my friends, family, or complete strangers. Every individual needs to choose what is right for themselves. I would never judge another for their own choices that do not directly affect me, as I expect that they would and should do the same for me.
  • Troll
    Troll Posts: 922 Member
    I've been a vegetarian for over 7 years now, and while i get over 1g per protein per pound of bodyweight, i totally agree with you handling the situation the way you did. I support carnivores-but my question is (i live in the south-there are no Jimmy Johns here), wtf was a vegetarian doing in what i have heard is a BURGER JOINT? If i was so violently opposed to consuming flesh, i for damn sure wouldnt' be giving a restaurant that does support it my money. Duh.
  • Rhea30
    Rhea30 Posts: 625 Member
    I was vegan for years, til I was skinny fat and on top of that a teenager and an even pickier eater than I am now.

    I've been non vegan for 10 years now and I'm leaning on going back to a vegan lifestyle again. I get tired of eating meat, the taste and the texture. I think butter, cheese and chicken will be hard to give up again. I gave up cheese and butter cold turkey last time, and I think I'm going to have to do it that way again.

    Since I've been monitoring my food and "entering" in what I eat, it's made me become more aware and I feel sad when I eat, because half the time, if it's protein I'm eating, whether it's eggs or chicken...it had a mom at some point. So that's how I feel about that. :\

    You do know the eggs sold in the store are not fertile?? It had a mom but the egg is not living or going to turn into anything living.
  • mtaylor1980
    mtaylor1980 Posts: 134 Member
    What she said!!!! haha...word for word....

    BTW I don't eat red meat. It just grosses me out, and I am weird about chicken. I have always been like that, and eating a piece of steak is like me going on Fear Factor and eating some weird creature. It is not any crazy belief, it's just a quirk. I am weird I guess, but I don't give a crap who eats what in fromt of me, and that was obnoxious and rude that she came up to you like that!!!! Mind yo business!!!!!!! and yeah if she was such a strict "veg" why was she there??? You don't go to a meat filled place, and then hassle someone
    I've been a vegetarian for over 7 years now, and while i get over 1g per protein per pound of bodyweight, i totally agree with you handling the situation the way you did. I support carnivores-but my question is (i live in the south-there are no Jimmy Johns here), wtf was a vegetarian doing in what i have heard is a BURGER JOINT? If i was so violently opposed to consuming flesh, i for damn sure wouldnt' be giving a restaurant that does support it my money. Duh.
  • hillbillyannie
    hillbillyannie Posts: 139 Member
    Well I can understand both views. We were lacto vegetarians for about 9 years back in the 70's and yes I lost about 75 pounds and had tons of energy and I did Atkins very strickly for a year and a half about 10 years ago and lost about 40 pounds. I now don't eat pork, shrimp, clams, etc. ( as close to my idea of Kosher as I am able) and have maintained this for almost 5 years. In the past I gained it all back and very quickly. I now eat mostly vegetables but do eat beef, turkey and chicken as well as other Kosher animals. I eat cottage cheese but not much other cheese. One thing I do remember from the 70's are that as much as you try you cannot get all eight amino acids from vegetables only even with eating brown rice and azuki beans which will give you seven and get you as close as possible. Our choice of being vegetarian was a personal choice, not to be healthier but because of the killing thing. As for G-d not putting animals here for us to consume, I think she misread the scriptures. Enjoy you sandwich.
  • hillbillyannie
    hillbillyannie Posts: 139 Member
    You might need to be concerned about the mutants crops also. It's amazing the stuff they are putting on the fields to enhance production.
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member
    I always find those situations funny. Everyone traces lines in their morals, I mean everyone.

    Everyone on the thread that followed the "I don't want to eat my pets" type of thinking could push the reasoning further and worry about the ethics of keeping them captive to begin with, most of the time sterilizing them, etc. Sure they are treated well, but those animals are put completely out of their natural habitat, purely for our entertainment. Surely, freedom counts for something? Yet we take that away from pets without second thoughts.

    That would be just an example, but a PETA freak could have yelled at that vegetarian in that restaurant, and probably that vegetarian girl would have just thought "who cares about that anyway?", without even realizing the irony of the situation.

    Yup, people have elastic morals and try to clumsily impose them on other people.

    I hate PETA with a passion.

    Also, "enslavement" of pets? Really? Do parents also "enslave" their children? Pets (dogs, cats) are domesticated animals. And their cuteness and domestication is their best survival skill. Those animals would die without us as slaves to their cuteness and cuddles.

    Fish and birds, maybe they are captives. But my dog runs the house!

    If you saw how poorly and inhumanely aphids are treated and enslaved by black garden ants, you wouldn't be laughing. They actually drug the aphids to keep them from escaping. PETA needs to get their act together and start protesting these deplorable and immoral beasts.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member

    If you saw how poorly and inhumanely aphids are treated and enslaved by black garden ants, you wouldn't be laughing. They actually drug the aphids to keep them from escaping. PETA needs to get their act together and start protesting these deplorable and immoral beasts.
    You have a very strange fascination with aphids. :tongue:
  • OMGLeigh
    OMGLeigh Posts: 236
    I've been a vegetarian for over 7 years now, and while i get over 1g per protein per pound of bodyweight, i totally agree with you handling the situation the way you did. I support carnivores-but my question is (i live in the south-there are no Jimmy Johns here), wtf was a vegetarian doing in what i have heard is a BURGER JOINT? If i was so violently opposed to consuming flesh, i for damn sure wouldnt' be giving a restaurant that does support it my money. Duh.

    They make sandwiches, think of a Subway that delivers.
    Their default vegetarian sandwich is pretty lame, but you could still make a decent veggie sandwich there.
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member

    If you saw how poorly and inhumanely aphids are treated and enslaved by black garden ants, you wouldn't be laughing. They actually drug the aphids to keep them from escaping. PETA needs to get their act together and start protesting these deplorable and immoral beasts.
    You have a very strange fascination with aphids. :tongue:

    Those poor, little buggers need an advocate.
  • OMGLeigh
    OMGLeigh Posts: 236

    If you saw how poorly and inhumanely aphids are treated and enslaved by black garden ants, you wouldn't be laughing. They actually drug the aphids to keep them from escaping. PETA needs to get their act together and start protesting these deplorable and immoral beasts.
    You have a very strange fascination with aphids. :tongue:

    I killed the aphids on my plants using soapy water. The ants were enslaving them, moving them from leaf to leaf so they could breed, so I put them out of their misery. Now only their brown little bodies remain.
  • MelissaRaeTerry
    MelissaRaeTerry Posts: 377 Member
    Like all "diets" it depends on if you do it the right way! You can e unhealthy either way. Eating is science if you dont eat the proper nutrients its bad for you no matter if you eat meat or veggies! That lady was just a butt head!
  • It isn't about "healthy". For most it is more ethical verses "healthy".
    I try to eat mostly vegetarian because I personally feel better when I am not weighed down by a lot of meat products.
    I also enjoy vegetarian food better.

    I could care less what anyone else eats.

    For that broad to approach you was rude, but we live in a society where people feel they have the freedom to share their opinions, asked for or not.
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member

    If you saw how poorly and inhumanely aphids are treated and enslaved by black garden ants, you wouldn't be laughing. They actually drug the aphids to keep them from escaping. PETA needs to get their act together and start protesting these deplorable and immoral beasts.
    You have a very strange fascination with aphids. :tongue:

    I killed the aphids on my plants using soapy water. The ants were enslaving them, moving them from leaf to leaf so they could breed, so I put them out of their misery. Now only their brown little bodies remain.

    It's only cruel if you kill them and then eat them.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member

    It's only cruel if you kill them and then eat them.

    Disagree. Since you've already killed them, less cruel if you eat them, then at least they died for something.
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member
    It isn't about "healthy". For most it is more ethical verses "healthy".
    I try to eat mostly vegetarian because I personally feel better when I am not weighed down by a lot of meat products.
    I also enjoy vegetarian food better.

    I could care less what anyone else eats.

    For that broad to approach you was rude, but we live in a society where people feel they have the freedom to share their opinions, asked for or not.

    I would agree with the freedom to share their opinions thing, but unfortunately the freedom of judicial dueling, which would inevitably follow the sharing of opinions, was taken away about a hundred and some odd years ago.