Vegetarians and vegans. Controversial Topic
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I have been veg for 14 years. Never once have I shamed/blamed/preached at anyone for their eating habits (its not my business). But I can't tell you how many times I've been shamed/blamed/preached at by meat eaters who try to prove to me that I'm wrong because of x,y, and z (each person has a different reason). Granted, most people do not do this and just say "Oh, ok", but a good 1 in 5 (mostly males) who hear that I am veg make it their mission for the next five minutes to tell me how wrong I am. I don't get it, why does anyone care what someone else eats? I sure don't. And if I happen to be eating near them, they make a point to drool and ooh and ahh over their meat, just to rub it in my face. There are a lot of busy bodies/know it alls in the world who just need to mind their own business.0
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FWIW, a lot of people would argue that life support isn't humane either. It's just not the best argument for making your point.
I don't agree with the blanket "meat is murder" argument. I think the problem starts with the breeding and raising of way way too many animals for human consumption. There are humane ways to kill animals. Ironically, there really aren't any animal free ways to farm- bones or feces are needed to provide nutrients to the soil and bugs are needed to pollinate, etc etc. There comes a point where we have to be sensible and accept that we live in an ecosystem and all species have to play their parts.
My family hunts. I find it repulsive, but if I was going to eat meat- which, barring some sort of doomsday scenario, I won't - I would rather the animal be killed by a quick shot to the head and then every last morsel of that animal used. I actually have a much bigger problem with people deluding themselves about what happens to "organic" or "free range" animals than hunters that kill swiftly and use the animal completely.
For vegetarians and vegans out there, I believe 100% in being as educated as possible. I encourage you to read "The Vegetarian Myth" by Lierre Keith, it was an enlightening read for me. I did not come to the same conclusion and I remain a vegetarian, but it may give you another perspective.0 -
I tried to protest black garden ants for their inhumane treatment of aphids as livestock, but it didn't work out so well. They didn't seem to understand what I was saying.0
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After watching a few documentaries and looking into higher cancer and cardiovascular disease linked with animal meat diets i decided that that wasnt what i wanted to put into my body. I dont care if others around me eat meat. thats fine with me. i eat fish, chicken sometimes and sometimes turkey but thats it. now im leaning into a plant based diet. anyway, my point is, it just has less links to cancers and heart disease. WOULD i approach someone eating meat? no my entire family does it. to each his own.0
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also id like to say a lot of 'red meat eaters" ALWAYS take grabs at me for being a more plant based person. i get told ill be weak that im not fueling my body correctly etc etc, to each his own. im tired of explaining and defending myself to them. i feel healthier and look healthier.0
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I think vegetarianism is a personal choice, no matter why you do it. Maybe for dietary reasons, stomach comfort, or because you disagree with how animals are treated. How that lady approached the OP was brazen and I would have told her to kindly shove her bs somewhere else. I am nearly vegetarian, I do eat seafood/fish and occasionally turkey and chicken but I have no problems getting protein from other sources. I don't like how animals are treated and that does help with my eating habits (I refuse to eat veal, specifically) but for me it's a health issue. I can't even tell you the last time I had a steak and I can't say I miss it. Some people like lots of meat, some people don't. Some people are tall, some are short. It's really no different.0
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also id like to say a lot of 'red meat eaters" ALWAYS take grabs at me for being a more plant based person. i get told ill be weak that im not fueling my body correctly etc etc, to each his own. im tired of explaining and defending myself to them. i feel healthier and look healthier.
I constantly got asked initially how I get protein. And then someone told me that iron is only found in red meat and I told them to get on Google sometime.0 -
OP, I think you're confusing 'vegetarian' with 'rude person'. The key issue here is her rudeness and her inappropriateness, not her vegetarianism.
She's hardly typical of the vegetarians of the world, is she?
That said, I do agree with others that, as a vegetarian, I'm often the subject of unwanted attention from meat eaters who demand I defend *my* choices. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to have that conversation. In contrast, I've never, in my 25+ years of being a vegetarian, asked a meat eater to defend what they do.0 -
Today, after I left the gym I stopped at Jimmy Johns to get a snack. I ordered a #1 which is Applewood Smoked Ham and provolone cheese garnished with lettuce, tomato, and mayo. I sat down minding my own business enjoying my snack. Like a the normal American Male that I am, I take really big bites of my food. Of course their might be a string of lettuce hanging from my mouth or drops back onto tray. Well while doing this I'm approached by a very bitter lady.
"That is so gross" was the first words out of her mouth. At first I was going to say something like "get off my nuts if you don't like the way I eat" but before I could say anything she wasn't talking about the way I eat food. She was referring to my meaty sandwhich. She says to me, "How can you eat that stuff, its disgusting, unhealthy, and just plain wrong. People kill animals for you to eat, god didn't put us on this planet to kill everything" (that wasn't word for word but its the same damn gibberish she was spouting at me)
Being a educated fellow I smiled real big and just knew this was going down right then and there.
My response "What makes you think that this is unhealthy? Because its high in calories? My food is cooked to kill the germs that might be harmful to me. As far as taste goes I believe its very good and I might just get another."
"I'm a vegetarian and vegetarians are just more fit and healthier than those who are not" she said.
Again I smile real big "Lady I'm 5'4" 160lbs, I can run 2 miles in under 13 minutes and at that pace I can maintain a heart rate of 150bpm and a dead rest heart rate of 52bpm. My blood pressure is 116/75. I can benchpress 205lbs. I go to the gym 4 days out of the week. I eat all the nutrients my body needs. Without sacrificing my size. If I were like you and eat only veggies I would be a puny twig that can be pushed over by a strong wind. I like my chances of being healthy without being a vegetarian. I like having protein in my body, it allows me to do hard labor work without being strained, and if I am strained I can recover very quickly. If I were you I'd start eating meat so you can be healthier than you are now"
Baffled and stunned this lady was forced into retreat.
While I think it's absolutely BEYOND rude that this person approached and berated you at all, I just had to take issue with one comment, about getting protein. While I am not a vegetarian, I went through a time in college where I could not afford to buy meat. Like...at all. At the time it was really expensive and my grocery budget was very limited! My mother knew quite a bit about nutrition; she helped me find combinations of non-meat foods that had lots of protein: beans and rice, peanut butter sandwich and milk...etc. This was many years ago. Now there are all sorts of meat alternatives for vegetarians and vegans to take in enough protein...just so you're updated.
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if she was such a hard core meat nazi then what the hell was she doing at jimmy johns??0
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I have been a vegetarian for over 18 years, never liked the taste or texture of meat, so just stopped eating it one day. My husband and son eat meat, and I will on occasion cook it for them :laugh: . For the most part, I get grief about not eating meat from family/friends, and don't push my non-meat eating on anyone....especially my son, he's 9, and I want him to make that choice himself. He knows I don't eat meat, but I don't make a big deal out of it.
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no. it doesn't. it doesn't prove anything. it suggests that conservatives eat heavier food, both veg*n and non. it also suggests that liberals eat lighter or healthier foods, both veg*n and non.
so it kind of proves my point..
false.i think there is a stong correlation for vegan/vegetarians and their political party... just my opinion.
"According to Lempert, conservatives correlated with foods like pizza, macaroni and cheese, and peanut butter and jelly for lunch, plus fried chicken, meatloaf, and steak for dinner, with Italian food being the cuisine of choice.
Liberals, on the other hand, preferred Asian: Thai and Indian for lunch, and veggie burgers and green curry for supper. His findings indicate they also tend to make more nutritionally sound choices, such as eating vegetables more often and fast food less frequently, and making dishes from scratch." [source: http://www.yumsugar.com/Political-Party-Affiliation-May-Correlated-Food-Choices-6375098]
just because comfort foods tend to include meat doesn't necessarily mean that conservatives must eat meat. my family is conservative and (outside of my household), nearly everything is homemade. i, a liberal vegetarian, do love making things myself and eating the veggies i like, but i would gladly eat nothing but pasta for the rest of my life and, quite frankly, i don't like spicy foods like asian.
there may be some correlation between heaviness of foods, if you will, but not necessarily if there is meat or not.
for your earlier survey, i am a member of the green party and i am a vegetarian. i had a friend at work who was a republican and vegetarian. my uncle is more moderate and was a vegetarian for years. political party has nothing to do with whether or not you eat meat.
My wife is Republican and is considering becoming a vegetarian (we'll probably start slow). I'm a liberal and considering becoming a vegetarian. We both cry watching the slaughter of pilot whales on Whale Wars. We both think that as the dominant species on this planet, we have an obligation to all the other species...however we both love bacon.... 0 -
FWIW, a lot of people would argue that life support isn't humane either. It's just not the best argument for making your point.
I don't agree with the blanket "meat is murder" argument. I think the problem starts with the breeding and raising of way way too many animals for human consumption. There are humane ways to kill animals. Ironically, there really aren't any animal free ways to farm- bones or feces are needed to provide nutrients to the soil and bugs are needed to pollinate, etc etc. There comes a point where we have to be sensible and accept that we live in an ecosystem and all species have to play their parts.
My family hunts. I find it repulsive, but if I was going to eat meat- which, barring some sort of doomsday scenario, I won't - I would rather the animal be killed by a quick shot to the head and then every last morsel of that animal used. I actually have a much bigger problem with people deluding themselves about what happens to "organic" or "free range" animals than hunters that kill swiftly and use the animal completely.
For vegetarians and vegans out there, I believe 100% in being as educated as possible. I encourage you to read "The Vegetarian Myth" by Lierre Keith, it was an enlightening read for me. I did not come to the same conclusion and I remain a vegetarian, but it may give you another perspective.
I am not nec. saying a blanket statement that meat is murder. I mean murder is murder is more of what I am saying. And I more have a problem with the hierarchy that humans put themselves in in terms of who is worth more: humans or animals? I think we were placed on earth to care for and be companions with animals. That being said however--- while humans were built as omnivores, they did consume meat in times of famine. It's a part of survival and a necessary instinct. I do think that the problem lies with us using animals for our own gratification and NOT survival. (Read: Leather, wool, etc. for fashions sense). I dont think every person who consumes meat is a murderer. In fact I think that were we not have things like grocery stores and we had to raise our own meat and veggies etc.... we would be doing so not to be gluttonous, but just to survive. Plain and simple. We exploit animals, we exploit each other, and we exploit our environment for selfish, greed-based reasons.
Again, I do believe that everyone has the freedom to choose what they eat, what they kill, etc. We are a pretty intricate species that have the ability to decide what we believe to be right and what we believe to be inherently wrong. It is not our job to tell another being how and what they should do (just as I believe that we should not decide the fate of another species life if it is unnecessary-- or the fate of another human being).
Anyway I just wanted to clarify.0 -
It's more about food aggression than what's healthier. Humans, just like any other animal, are going to defend what they eat. I don't think the OP's story is BS at all and I'm not defending him or attacking vegetarians. Sometimes the best way to defend your food is to attack someone else for their food.0
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OP, I think you're confusing 'vegetarian' with 'rude person'. The key issue here is her rudeness and her inappropriateness, not her vegetarianism.
She's hardly typical of the vegetarians of the world, is she?
That said, I do agree with others that, as a vegetarian, I'm often the subject of unwanted attention from meat eaters who demand I defend *my* choices. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to have that conversation. In contrast, I've never, in my 25+ years of being a vegetarian, asked a meat eater to defend what they do.
If you work with animals its the other way around. Vegans and vegetarians are very much in your face when you're in an animal field and they also try to legislate their way of life.0 -
If you work with animals its the other way around. Vegans and vegetarians are very much in your face when you're in an animal field and they also try to legislate their way of life.
That seems a massively sweeping generalisation. Perhaps you could talk about a specific *type* of vegetarian, as I certainly don't recognise the sort you refer to. I've never tried to 'legislate' anyone's life, I've taught my child that it's *rude* to comment on other people's dietary preferences, and I can't think of a single vege friend of mine who'd behave in the way you described.0 -
I am not nec. saying a blanket statement that meat is murder. I mean murder is murder is more of what I am saying. [. . .]
Anyway I just wanted to clarify.
I read your post a couple times and I think I'm less clear about what you mean? Is it that all exploitation is murder?
I rarely get involved in philosophical vegetarian discussions because it seems I'm too middle-of-the-road to agree with anyone on either side, but for the sake of conversation I don't really understand what you're saying.0 -
If you work with animals its the other way around. Vegans and vegetarians are very much in your face when you're in an animal field and they also try to legislate their way of life.
That seems a massively sweeping generalisation. Perhaps you could talk about a specific *type* of vegetarian, as I certainly don't recognise the sort you refer to. I've never tried to 'legislate' anyone's life, I've taught my child that it's *rude* to comment on other people's dietary preferences, and I can't think of a single vege friend of mine who'd behave in the way you described.
I never said "all" but it is vegans and vegetarians who get in your face when in these fields, the animal rights crowd.0 -
I never said "all" but it is vegans and vegetarians who get in your face when in these fields, the animal rights crowd.
There are extremist groups of people about any controversial issue- abortion, environment, religion, etc. We plant based eaters never voted those people in to represent the rest of us.0 -
Not that I would ever be able to think fast enough in the moment, but the following reply to the rude lady might have provided a bit of hilarity...
"I understand meat eaters are also prone to fits of violent rage. I might be feeling one of those fits coming on now... run, lady, run. Save yourself."0 -
I never said "all" but it is vegans and vegetarians who get in your face when in these fields, the animal rights crowd.
There are extremist groups of people about any controversial issue- abortion, environment, religion, etc. We plant based eaters never voted those people in to represent the rest of us.
The vocal minority!0 -
I don't care how people get their nutrients, just as long as they do. The simple fact remains, humans wouldn't have the digestive enzymes for metabolizing animal meat if we weren't meant to eat them. Lest we forget our CANINE teeth? We are omnivores--plain and simple. But, just because we are meant to eat meat doesn't mean we have to. No reason to rage, either way.0
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I am not a vegetarian and I don't think I ever could be because I enjoy meat too much and sometimes crave it. I try to listen to my body and what it needs. I think you can be very healthy and be a meat eater. Likewise, I'm sure you can be a very health vegetarian.
What I don't agree with is approaching a complete stranger who did not ask for your opinion and shoving your opinion down their throat. Was her approach supposed to make you see the light and determine right then and there to put down your sandwich and never eat another piece of meat again? Not a good way to make a conversion....but, she did start a conversation, that's for certain! If that was her intent, then mission accomplished.
Oh, and on a side note....I heart Jimmy John's
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I would have told her to go talk crazy to someone who cares. What a wench.0
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A good thing to think about is cutting back on meat, if not eliminating it. We eat too much meat in our society. The costs to the environment and our health are too high. A good book to read on this topic is called: The Ominvore's Dilemma.
Every action has a consequence, as does the consumption or over consumption of meat.0 -
I was raised a vegetarian, and now only eat seafood. My boyfriend is more bothered by me not eating meat than I am with him eating it 0
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We eat too much meat in our society.
Says who? That's a very sweeping statement...0 -
I'm a carnivore to the 4th power and your sandwich sounded delish...0
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I tried veganism for just over six weeks and I loved it.
It could not be sustained without taking regular supplements to get certain nutrients so I discontinued it.
If it could have been maintained completely naturally, I might have stuck with it.
One other thought for the OP, there are some serious professional athletes who are vegan and would resent your "twig" remark and, yes, they are bigger and stronger than you...not that this is a contest or anything.
But, yes, that lady that interrupted your lunch was a nut case and needed to have restrained herself. I don't know how she makes it through her day with that mentality.0 -
I know what you mean. Some people get offended when others make different choices then they do. I'm not sure why. I guess it's human nature.I was raised a vegetarian, and now only eat seafood. My boyfriend is more bothered by me not eating meat than I am with him eating it0
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