Survey time: Should a guy pay on a first date?
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Replies
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I pay.
Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.
Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.
Amen!!
You and I would get along very well lol. Unfortunately though, with the direction this thread has turned (and no one's going to go back and read 20 pages of it.../sigh!), we're going to start hearing big words like 'misogynistic', 'cis-normative', and 'patriarchal' to describe responses like that.
Maybe the best response is just to stand there and repeat:I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man.
Lol.0 -
Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.
This beautiful young lady...gets it!0 -
Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.
Absolutely!0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.
I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.
I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.0 -
I didn't read the first 20 pages (sorry).
IMHO it depends on who's asking, the person asking should pay. What if the girl asks the guy to go to Ruth Chris' (a really nice steakhouse), but her date just paid rent and bills and doesn't have money until next payday? She should pay, not fair if he could only afford to take her to Olive Garden or something like that.
I've always offered to pay.0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.
I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.
I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.
They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational
Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore
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I pay.
Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.
Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.
Amen!!
You and I would get along very well lol. Unfortunately though, with the direction this thread has turned (and no one's going to go back and read 20 pages of it.../sigh!), we're going to start hearing big words like 'misogynistic', 'cis-normative', and 'patriarchal' to describe responses like that.
Maybe the best response is just to stand there and repeat:I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man.
Lol.
Correct... I did not read the last 20 pages, but after reading these two responses... I don't have to! You guys are SPOT ON! Cheers to all the real men out there! Enough said!0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.
I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.
I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.
:laugh: I love having u as my MFP friend!!0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.
I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.
I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.
They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational
Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore
So...I hunt with a 30-06. During WW2, the Navy hunted with a 120mm M1.
Gotcha, comparable on different scales.
And as for your question about a woman doing something small for a man, like paying for dinner...that's great. If she wants to, she can do so for another man.
Again...I'm stating this very, very clearly. If she's so very independant that she cannot handle and/or appreciate the fact that I've been taught to show respect for my date by paying...then one of the very fundamental things required for a real relationships is going to be missing. Unless the other parts of our relationship are stellar (and even then...chances are it won't work), she should just move on and find someone more willing to allow her to express that independance as she pleases, without respect for him or the things he may or may not have been taught.0 -
UMMMM... YES! And if he doesn't walk out and stick him with the bill anyway. And even before you get to the restaurant, the man should be opening car and restaurant doors for you, pullin' out your chair, etc. If he isn't, he is not the kind of man you want anyway! Some guys these days have no idea what it means to be a gentleman and too many women are letting them get away with it. Women: expect your man to be a gentleman, and if he isn't right now, HE CAN BE TAUGHT!0
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Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.
So agree!! What has happened to chivalry and women accepting acts of chivalry? when a man opens a door for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man pulls my chair out for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man won't let me help pay for dinner, I smile and say thank you....it doesn't mean I'm any less of an equal0 -
Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.
So agree!! What has happened to chivalry and women accepting acts of chivalry? when a man opens a door for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man pulls my chair out for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man won't let me help pay for dinner, I smile and say thank you....it doesn't mean I'm any less of an equal
Thank you so much for that!
The answer to what happened to chivalry, sadly...is feminism. Don't get me wrong, feminism on its fundamental level is right and necessary. The level its been taken to however is just sad for all parties involved.0 -
He should. If he asks you to go out on a date, you shouldn't have to pay.0
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THIS!UMMMM... YES! And if he doesn't walk out and stick him with the bill anyway. And even before you get to the restaurant, the man should be opening car and restaurant doors for you, pullin' out your chair, etc. If he isn't, he is not the kind of man you want anyway! Some guys these days have no idea what it means to be a gentleman and too many women are letting them get away with it. Women: expect your man to be a gentleman, and if he isn't right now, HE CAN BE TAUGHT!0 -
If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?
I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.
I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.
I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.
I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.
They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational
Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore
So...I hunt with a 30-06. During WW2, the Navy hunted with a 120mm M1.
Gotcha, comparable on different scales.
And as for your question about a woman doing something small for a man, like paying for dinner...that's great. If she wants to, she can do so for another man.
Again...I'm stating this very, very clearly. If she's so very independant that she cannot handle and/or appreciate the fact that I've been taught to show respect for my date by paying...then one of the very fundamental things required for a real relationships is going to be missing. Unless the other parts of our relationship are stellar (and even then...chances are it won't work), she should just move on and find someone more willing to allow her to express that independance as she pleases, without respect for him or the things he may or may not have been taught.
Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.0 -
When my husband and I first started dating, we definitely went 50/50 on just about everything, because we both were working hard for what little money we were making. Just because he couldn't right then afford to take me to the places he wanted to take me or the places I wanted to go didn't mean that we wouldn't. We just modified it to our then current financial situations. I didn't date him because he had money, or didn't have money, or whatever. I dated him because I wanted to really get to know him. And if it took me paying half the bills for our dates, then that's what I was going to do. And I'm really glad we gave each other that opportunity to get to know each other, because now we're very very happily married.0
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Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.
Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.
Taking it point by point:
Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.
Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.
You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.
So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?0 -
They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational
Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore
The thing is you can do something for a man and still allow him to feel like a man. You can make him dinner in future dates. You could plan out dates further down the line etc. Or keep it simple: make him a sandwich and rub his back while he watches the game.
For the most part, I think with guys their options are a little more limited when it comes to showing their appreciation. Men and women just express their feelings differently. To a guy, paying for your dinner and opening the door is how he shows he really cares about you. When someone does something nice for you and you're like "No thanks I got it!" It comes across as more of "No thanks, I don't need you"
If the situation was different. Lets say you made dinner for your guy thinking it would be a sweet gesture but instead he responded to it like "No thanks but I can make my own food" How would you feel?0 -
Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.
Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.
Taking it point by point:
Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.
Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.
You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.
So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?
I didn't purposely misunderstand them. You stated how you weren't saying my husband disrespects but in the same line you stated that you just don't think I see it for what it is so in a way you were stating he does. You saying that is a form of disrespect is no different then me generalizing as the pay thing being controlling since you had generalized.0
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