Looking for Feminist Friends
Replies
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I agree, my men friends are so much more real, i had at least 3 "friends " stab me in the back...Im an easy going girl, I dont hate anybody , I dont think the OP meant to sound as if "women arent equal to men" IMO this post has gone out of control, yes women are so critical(M-I-L) and mean too. Cant we all just get along??I believe in staying home and taking care of my family. If push comes to shov,e I will go back to work. I resent comments from people who say things like "Is that ALL you do?" I like to look good because I am very vain. I like hearing compliments, mostly I get them from men. The most criticism and anger I have ever faced has always come from other women. My male friends and acquaintances have been much kinder and more supportive. On the whole I've noticed that women just bring each other down unfortunately. I'm not sure what that makes me in terms of feminism. I wish all women in the world felt empowered and loved, and loved themselves.0 -
Im so confused.... which tells me I dont belong in this thread.
Im just going to... workout and stuff. I think that'll work, regardless.0 -
(don't do it, don't do it!!!)
Okay-- I'm doing it anyway-- gonna ignore that still, small voice--
Gentlemen-- you have cracked me up. I totally love how "women" have somehow vaulted themselves in a protected class-- you can't tease us. You can't say anything bad about us.
But you, guys? You're fair game.
Not.
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
GASP!!!!
You mean I don't get my "fulfillment" outside the home? Uh, nope. Fulfillment comes from doing the job God called me to do-- helper to my husband, mother to my children-- I even homeschool 'em, to boot.
I hope you have found what you're looking for OP-- I think feminism has hurt "us," meaning women, and have definitely hurt our children as more and more of "us" seek work outside the home, and dump our kids for someone else to raise. But if you find comfort in that, God bless you.
My very controversial two cents.
My point exactly, in my first post. I think we must be kindred spirits! :flowerforyou:
That's because some women refuse to see that this, too, is a choice. If they did they would lose fuel for their fire.0 -
feminists make the best sammiches!!!!!!0
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"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985
Is this quite accurate, though?
I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:
"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson
Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.
And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:
Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.
I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.
I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?
How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?0 -
I agree with you on the boards, its all about body fat % and whats hot and whats not.
Is that what all the hubub is about? I just thought that was people talking about things that interest them. Personally, I'm fascinated by people. All kinds of people, and their opinions....so I love those threads
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sandwiches ...... sorry i had to say that.feminists make the best sammiches!!!!!!0 -
(don't do it, don't do it!!!)
Okay-- I'm doing it anyway-- gonna ignore that still, small voice--
Gentlemen-- you have cracked me up. I totally love how "women" have somehow vaulted themselves in a protected class-- you can't tease us. You can't say anything bad about us.
But you, guys? You're fair game.
Not.
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
GASP!!!!
You mean I don't get my "fulfillment" outside the home? Uh, nope. Fulfillment comes from doing the job God called me to do-- helper to my husband, mother to my children-- I even homeschool 'em, to boot.
I hope you have found what you're looking for OP-- I think feminism has hurt "us," meaning women, and have definitely hurt our children as more and more of "us" seek work outside the home, and dump our kids for someone else to raise. But if you find comfort in that, God bless you.
My very controversial two cents.
My point exactly, in my first post. I think we must be kindred spirits! :flowerforyou:
I find this amusing. Even if you replace "god" with nature. Look at human history. And I mean history in the long sense, not just US history. Humans have evolved through it quite a bit, changing habit and gender roles as is needed.. but wait.. actually "gender roles" that go further than "woman have baby" are actually a new concept (look it up, I dare you). Before industrialisation we just did what was needed to be done. The only reason for women to be "traditionally" home makers, is because being pregnant all the time made it more dangerous to work outside the home - dangerous for the baby. Which was all that mattered! More kids = more likely to survive. In today's society, this is not the case. Women can hold a job that is not dangerous for an unborn child - not to mention that children in western societies have a much higher life expectancy now so women dont need to be pregnant *ALL* the time.
Believe it or not, sewing used to be considered a MANS job (this was before europeans invated america so I dont know if US kids get tought that part of history in school). This was because the woman was too busy during the day to do it, and sewing was a job you can do in the evening after a long day in the field.
Embroidery and sewing as a woman was a status of wealth. It meant she had enough servants to do all the other chores that she could sit down to sewing.
When industrialisation came along, we started specialising instead of being jack-of-all-trades. The jobs in the factories were also more dangerous, which means in a population that still had high child death rate women were less used (also the whole "i'm wealthy enough to stay home" thing).
Now-a-days fertility rate is becoming more of an issue than child death rate. Now-a-days workplaces are a whole lot safer too. Which means there is no reason for a woman not to do something.. unless she just DOESNT WANT TO. which is fine.
If you have a household where one partner can stay at home and tend to the kids, while the other works and still live comfortably - GOOD FOR YOU! That is my plan - though the stay at home partner will be my husband.. not because he's got a penis but because he's better with children.
I'm a feminist, I am also an equal opertunitist. I believe both genders should have the POSSIBILITY to choose which job they tend to, and then the OPERTUNITY to seek out the education and training for it. If you want to stay at home, fine - if you want to seek out a job, fine.. as long as this works out economically for the population at large ITS ALL FINE
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Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.0 -
This is a long thread and I am just jumping in but I wanted to ask for some clarification. Is it anti-feminist to be a woman who chooses to stay home and care for your family or is it anti-feminist to take away any options from a woman?0
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This is a long thread and I am just jumping in but I wanted to ask for some clarification. Is it anti-feminist to be a woman and care for your family or is it anti-feminist to take away any options from a woman?
It is not anti-feminism to be a stay at home mother.
it is anti-feminism to expect all women to be a stay at home mother (or confirm to any one mold, really)0 -
I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.
I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends
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Not me! I have a sense of humour!
I'm all about equality, but every feminist I meet doesn't seem to be for that. And if that's what feminism is all about, why is it called feminism?0 -
This is a long thread and I am just jumping in but I wanted to ask for some clarification. Is it anti-feminist to be a woman and care for your family or is it anti-feminist to take away any options from a woman?
It is not anti-feminism to be a stay at home mother.
it is anti-feminism to expect all women to be a stay at home mother (or confirm to any one mold, really)
I really dont see that happening to much now days0 -
I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.
I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends
yay finally someone who uses the right term! :flowerforyou:0 -
(don't do it, don't do it!!!)
Okay-- I'm doing it anyway-- gonna ignore that still, small voice--
Gentlemen-- you have cracked me up. I totally love how "women" have somehow vaulted themselves in a protected class-- you can't tease us. You can't say anything bad about us.
But you, guys? You're fair game.
Not.
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
GASP!!!!
You mean I don't get my "fulfillment" outside the home? Uh, nope. Fulfillment comes from doing the job God called me to do-- helper to my husband, mother to my children-- I even homeschool 'em, to boot.
I hope you have found what you're looking for OP-- I think feminism has hurt "us," meaning women, and have definitely hurt our children as more and more of "us" seek work outside the home, and dump our kids for someone else to raise. But if you find comfort in that, God bless you.
My very controversial two cents.
as a feminist, i have no qualms about you and your ilk making that choice. although, i would not personally be fulfilled by a life similar to yours, i respect your choice and will fight for your continued freedom to choose a lifestyle that makes you happy.
thanks to feminists (past, present, and future), you have this choice.0 -
I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.
I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends
yay finally someone who uses the right term! :flowerforyou:
You mean "non-feminist"? What is the incorrect term? Just curious 0 -
"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985
Is this quite accurate, though?
I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:
"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson
Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.
And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:
Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.
I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.
I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?
How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?
Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.
If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>
I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.
i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?
i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.
again, just wow.
wow.
Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.
I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?
I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.
I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.
Narrow minded, double standards.
Edit ~ Spelling0 -
I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.
I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends
yay finally someone who uses the right term! :flowerforyou:
You mean "non-feminist"? What is the incorrect term? Just curious
My point being (sorry for not saying earlier) that you can "not be something" without being "against it". Anti-feminist implies that you will campaign for all women to belong in a certain mold without any rights. Non-feminist implies you are not going to campaign for women to have a choice. At least it does for me. Was just glad that at last someone mentioned the "in between" option. No idea what the exact right academical terminology is though.0 -
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.
There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.
I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.0 -
"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985
Is this quite accurate, though?
I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:
"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson
Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.
And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:
Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.
I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.
I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?
How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?
Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.
If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>
I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.
i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?
i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.
again, just wow.
wow.
Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.
I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?
I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.
I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.
Narrow minded, double standards.
Edit ~ Spelling
I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.0 -
This is a long thread and I am just jumping in but I wanted to ask for some clarification. Is it anti-feminist to be a woman and care for your family or is it anti-feminist to take away any options from a woman?
I guess it depends on the individual. I don't think its anti-feminist for a woman to take care of her family, I only think it becomes one when the option is taken away. Families need to be taken care of but men could also be caregivers to their family as well, I don't think it should fall solely on the woman.
I just don't think gender should dictate what we do and most gender roles is cultural and nothing to do with how we are made biologically. Pretty much for me its making sure those options aren't taken away and not being forced to do something because I'm a woman. Also women still aren't getting equal pay, we're also laid off more then men are when a crisis hit.0 -
I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.
I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends
yay finally someone who uses the right term! :flowerforyou:
You mean "non-feminist"? What is the incorrect term? Just curious
My point being (sorry for not saying earlier) that you can "not be something" without being "against it". Anti-feminist implies that you will campaign for all women to belong in a certain mold without any rights. Non-feminist implies you are not going to campaign for women to have a choice. At least it does for me. Was just glad that at last someone mentioned the "in between" option. No idea what the exact right academical terminology is though.
That's what I figured. I think a lot of people say they are "anti feminist" when they really just mean to say that they are indifferent to it.0 -
I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.
Feminists can have that too. I would like to believe I do. Just because some feminists are *****es, doesnt mean all are :flowerforyou:0 -
I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.
good of you to say, was starting to believe you were enjoying being a troll a bit too much and applying selective reading quite a bit yourself.0 -
I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.
Feminists can have that too. I would like to believe I do. Just because some feminists are *****es, doesnt mean all are :flowerforyou:
I love this.
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"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985
Is this quite accurate, though?
I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:
"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson
Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.
And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:
Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.
I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.
I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?
How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?
Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.
If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>
I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.
i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?
i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.
again, just wow.
wow.
Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.
I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?
I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.
I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.
Narrow minded, double standards.
Edit ~ Spelling
I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.
Agreed.0 -
"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985
Is this quite accurate, though?
I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:
"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson
Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.
And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:
Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.
I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.
I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?
How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?
Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.
If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>
I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.
i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?
i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.
again, just wow.
wow.
Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.
I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?
I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.
I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.
Narrow minded, double standards.
Edit ~ Spelling
Not that I agree with everything the person you are arguing with has said... but it's also a little narrow minded and absurd to make "closing your legs" the only option. Sex is going to happen... you might as well accept it... abstinence education doesn't work the way the proponents of it thought it would.... the best solution is to education EVERYONE involved and allow them access to the things that will protect them... I.E.- condoms and birth control.0 -
Holy **** this thread is just uber stupid. People care way too much about defining, go ****ing live life and stop this nonsense. I'm going to eat now, have a good day.0
-
Holy **** this thread is just uber stupid. People care way too much about defining, go ****ing live life and stop this nonsense. I'm going to eat now, have a good day.
word0
This discussion has been closed.
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