Looking for Feminist Friends
Replies
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wowwww, i'm not sure what feminism has to do with weight-loss butttt isn't that one of those topics kinda like religion that shouldn't be "discussed" in an open forum kinda setting. I can be as feminist as the next person but, definately no where near some i've seen and had the unfortunate experience of encountering. Friend me if you like though, i'm just tryin to get healthy like most others on here.0
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Wow....just wow.....this thread makes me want to go do the laundry and fix a kick-*kitten* dinner for my husband.
He is so amazing and I am so grateful I don't have an ounce of the angst contained in this thread. :bigsmile:
Carry on with your :grumble: and your :sad: I'm just gonna go :drinker:0 -
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.
There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.
I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.
Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.
because our Bible calls us to. There can't be two captains of a vessel. Somebody has to have the final say what course the ship goes. God tells me that's him.
The problem with this, is that you're going to get all these people coming in and saying that Christianity is a patriarchal contrivance designed to hold women down and uphold men's stranglehold on the neck of women across the world.
I'm the leader of my family, invariably...but I didn't do a DAMN thing that my wife (when I had one), wasn't happy about. That my friends, would be sexual and emotional suicide, no thanks. Aside from the fact that if my actions DID in fact upset her...I'd be pretty upset too.
Indeed-- submission is basically just when two sides can't come to an agreement, and he feels extremely strongly that he's right and I'm wrong, then I back down. That's not to say he's an ape man and beats his chest-- he is a wise man, and listens to all sides and makes a thoughtful, careful decision-- sometimes on the side for which I argued.
It's basically a president/vice president type thing-- someone's got to have the final authority to push the red button....ya know?
Exactly. After all those years of doing it alone, let me tell you, I am so happy to have someone to help make some of the more difficult decisions. My husband is a kind, fair, and (laughably, since I speak of submitting to him) very passive man. I trust him with my life and the lives of my children. We run our home together, he works outside of the home and I work inside. He deserves my respect and to be honest, I feel secure knowing he has our best interest in mind. In all honesty, I don't think I would want his job. It's probably very stressful, and I especially respect him for taking on 5 children that are not biologically his. He's an amazing, precious man.0 -
I have Radiohead tickets.
Can I go?0 -
this. If you want to be pregnant...you'll find plenty of willing men to provide that service lol. If I want to get a woman pregnant...yeah, not the same thing.0 -
Yeah lets burn our bras and end women's suffrage now!
To quote from the princess bride:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.0 -
Women can sue for not getting maternity leave. I can't sue for not getting paternity leave.
In your country - yes.. in my country - no. Feminists joined mens activist groups to make sure paternity is valued.. still not 100% equal (maternity leave is a bit longer than paternity leave, and you can only get paternity leave if you are married to the woman) but still better than non existant. Feminists and mens activist groups (allot of them call themselfs feminists too) are still trying to get that more equal (last I checked).
feminists (at least most feminist groups I've heard talk in scandinavia) are for equality for men as well as women.. but allot take up the stance that they are fighting for women's right, they will not start the fight for a men's right for something but they will support it if the men are starting the fight themselfs.0 -
Yeah lets burn our bras and end women's suffrage now!
To quote from the princess bride:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Love it!0 -
This thread makes me sad.
Feminism is not about man hating. It is about gender equality. Of course you get the odd *kitten* hole in feminism, but to say that radical man haters speak for all feminists is like saying that the westboro baptist church speak for all Christians.
I don't know why men are so angry at feminism; it's about them too. To be sexist towards a women is to be sexist towards a man. To say that women should be in the kitchen suggests that men aren't allowed, to say that a woman's only value is their looks is to suggests men are weak and shallow.
Feminism tackles gender violence, it fights rape and domestic abuse, and things like the social acceptance of women slapping men.
Feminism asks that all genders have equal rights in the workplace and home. Feminism means that BOTH genders should have equal pay, equal maternity leave, equal rights to raise a child and have custody.
Feminists want women to have the right to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and lives.
Feminism wants objectification of women to stop, the hyper sexualisation of girls and women to stop - things that are also harmful to men as it gives men and especially young boys an unrealistic expectation of women. It also damages relationships, if men are brought up being taught that the way a woman looks is more important than how she acts, and expects her to be an obedient porn star/cook/servant they will never sustain a healthy relationship.
Feminism is about bringing the genders together, not tearing them apart.
Just because you've been brainwashed into thinking that all feminists are lesbian, man hating, dungaree wearing *****es, doesn't mean they are. It means "the system" is doing it's job, and making you think that it is ridiculous.
I want equal rights between men and women - by oppressing women, you oppress men as well. By creating a female social ideal, you trap yourself into your own one.
Don't judge it by it's name and it's stereotypes, feminism is a movement for men and women, because it benefits us both.0 -
Feel free to add me too! I'm not sure I'm neccesarily a feminist, but I hate the ways guys think they're better than we are.
you are hanging out with the wrong guys apparently
Exactly...but, she's 18...and probably hanging out with boys. Hopefully they don't drive home the wrong lesson too harshly.wowwww, i'm not sure what feminism has to do with weight-loss butttt isn't that one of those topics kinda like religion that shouldn't be "discussed" in an open forum kinda setting. I can be as feminist as the next person but, definately no where near some i've seen and had the unfortunate experience of encountering. Friend me if you like though, i'm just tryin to get healthy like most others on here.
I know...I mentioned a thread last night...of a young lady looking for anti-feminist opinions. It was shut down within 4hrs. Somehow though, this one is still going...DESPITE moderater interaction with various of the posters.
Nope, no double standard here. Just the MFP Gestapo at its finest.0 -
Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.
There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.
I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.
Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.
because our Bible calls us to. There can't be two captains of a vessel. Somebody has to have the final say what course the ship goes. God tells me that's him.
I'm happy my husband and I aren't driving a ship! We just discuss things like equal partners.
I think this is great and it looks like it works for your marriage. I do think it's important to stress that all marriages are different. Some thrive and bloom on equal terms, and others work well with a submissive wife, and i'm sure there all kinds of other circumstances as well-but as long as it's working for your particular marriage (not you particularly, lol, the general you as in everyone and anyone) then you've found the secret to your own personal happy marriage. Each couple should keep doing what works for their own marriage. I hope i'm making sense here. :blushing:0 -
I have Linkin Park tickets!!!I have Radiohead tickets.
also...
In before locked \m/0 -
Does anyone know where I can find some ponies, or instructions on how to make a pine cone bird feeder?
Seriously though, life is short, LIVE IT0 -
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Sorry but it goes both ways and takes two people to make a baby. Not just a woman.
Pretty sure that's what he's saying...
It looks like to me he is saying the control is on the woman. The control should go both ways.
Sigh. Did you not read where he said that if he's in a position where he doesn't want to get a woman pregnant, he simply chooses not to have sex? And, ultimately, the control *is* in the hands of the woman. She has the ultimate veto.
I have a feeling the previous poster did not score high in the reading comprehension portion of their high school testing.
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Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.
This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.
There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.
I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.
Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.
because our Bible calls us to. There can't be two captains of a vessel. Somebody has to have the final say what course the ship goes. God tells me that's him.
The problem with this, is that you're going to get all these people coming in and saying that Christianity is a patriarchal contrivance designed to hold women down and uphold men's stranglehold on the neck of women across the world.
I'm the leader of my family, invariably...but I didn't do a DAMN thing that my wife (when I had one), wasn't happy about. That my friends, would be sexual and emotional suicide, no thanks. Aside from the fact that if my actions DID in fact upset her...I'd be pretty upset too.
Indeed-- submission is basically just when two sides can't come to an agreement, and he feels extremely strongly that he's right and I'm wrong, then I back down. That's not to say he's an ape man and beats his chest-- he is a wise man, and listens to all sides and makes a thoughtful, careful decision-- sometimes on the side for which I argued.
It's basically a president/vice president type thing-- someone's got to have the final authority to push the red button....ya know?
Exactly. After all those years of doing it alone, let me tell you, I am so happy to have someone to help make some of the more difficult decisions. My husband is a kind, fair, and (laughably, since I speak of submitting to him) very passive man. I trust him with my life and the lives of my children. We run our home together, he works outside of the home and I work inside. He deserves my respect and to be honest, I feel secure knowing he has our best interest in mind. In all honesty, I don't think I would want his job. It's probably very stressful, and I especially respect him for taking on 5 children that are not biologically his. He's an amazing, precious man.
He absolutely is.0 -
Women can sue for not getting maternity leave. I can't sue for not getting paternity leave.
In your country - yes.. in my country - no. Feminists joined mens activist groups to make sure paternity is valued.. still not 100% equal (maternity leave is a bit longer than paternity leave, and you can only get paternity leave if you are married to the woman) but still better than non existant. Feminists and mens activist groups (allot of them call themselfs feminists too) are still trying to get that more equal (last I checked).
feminists (at least most feminist groups I've heard talk in scandinavia) are for equality for men as well as women.. but allot take up the stance that they are fighting for women's right, they will not start the fight for a men's right for something but they will support it if the men are starting the fight themselfs.
^^ This!0 -
I have Linkin Park tickets!!!I have Radiohead tickets.
also...
In before locked \m/
<want>!0 -
I need to go workout...and pack my car. But this thread is so damned entertaining :laugh:0
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This thread makes me sad.
Feminism is not about man hating. It is about gender equality. Of course you get the odd *kitten* hole in feminism, but to say that radical man haters speak for all feminists is like saying that the westboro baptist church speak for all Christians.
I don't know why men are so angry at feminism; it's about them too. To be sexist towards a women is to be sexist towards a man. To say that women should be in the kitchen suggests that men aren't allowed, to say that a woman's only value is their looks is to suggests men are weak and shallow.
Feminism tackles gender violence, it fights rape and domestic abuse, and things like the social acceptance of women slapping men.
Feminism asks that all genders have equal rights in the workplace and home. Feminism means that BOTH genders should have equal pay, equal maternity leave, equal rights to raise a child and have custody.
Feminists want women to have the right to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and lives.
Feminism wants objectification of women to stop, the hyper sexualisation of girls and women to stop - things that are also harmful to men as it gives men and especially young boys an unrealistic expectation of women. It also damages relationships, if men are brought up being taught that the way a woman looks is more important than how she acts, and expects her to be an obedient porn star/cook/servant they will never sustain a healthy relationship.
Feminism is about bringing the genders together, not tearing them apart.
Just because you've been brainwashed into thinking that all feminists are lesbian, man hating, dungaree wearing *****es, doesn't mean they are. It means "the system" is doing it's job, and making you think that it is ridiculous.
I want equal rights between men and women - by oppressing women, you oppress men as well. By creating a female social ideal, you trap yourself into your own one.
Don't judge it by it's name and it's stereotypes, feminism is a movement for men and women, because it benefits us both.
Hun, this is YOUR view on feminism...throw a rock into a group of you and you're far more likely to hit an activist who will believe you threw the rock specifically to hit a woman, simply because the less of them there are to oppose you, the easier it will be to continue with your patriarchal, misogynistic agenda.
THAT is the problem.0 -
Feel free to add me too! I'm not sure I'm neccesarily a feminist, but I hate the ways guys think they're better than we are.
Great blanket statement! Seriously? This is exactly why I don't identify with feminists.0 -
I don't know that I'd label myself a feminist, because I just live my life the way it makes sense to me (i.e. I don't see myself as having a "feminist agenda"), BUT everything you said makes perfect sense to me, so feel free to add me if you want.
I'm online almost everyday and try to comment as much as I can when work and a crazy schedule don't get in the way. I try to keep my comments positive but I'll call you out in a constructive (not bashing) way if I see something that looks like it's contrary to your goals.
I've got my ups and downs and sometimes I bash on myself, but never on other people!!
I agree with you about the negative posts so I just don't participate in those.
Hope you manage to make a better experience for yourself with a new group of friends!
All the best,
Jen
Wow...you're in my head. This is exactly how I feel
Also, I'd like to point out that you don't have to be thin to be healthy and being healthy is the goal isn't it?0 -
My ears hurt....
maybe it's the mites.0 -
Wow....just wow.....this thread makes me want to go do the laundry and fix a kick-*kitten* dinner for my husband. He is so amazing and I am so grateful I don't have an ounce of the angst contained in this thread. :bigsmile:
Carry on with your :grumble: and your :sad: I'm just gonna go :drinker:
lol, I thought I was weird because it incited the exact same feelings in me! :drinker:0 -
First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.
Sorry but it goes both ways and takes two people to make a baby. Not just a woman.
Pretty sure that's what he's saying...
It looks like to me he is saying the control is on the woman. The control should go both ways.
Sigh. Did you not read where he said that if he's in a position where he doesn't want to get a woman pregnant, he simply chooses not to have sex? And, ultimately, the control *is* in the hands of the woman. She has the ultimate veto.
See, that is stating the woman is the only one in control. That might be what "He" does but that the not case for everyone, when it comes to sex both are in control. A guy can keep it in his pants and doesn't have to plant his seed just as much as a woman could close her legs. The fact is women enjoy sex just like guys enjoy sex and this equals babies if precautions aren't taken by either side. Its not just the woman.
If a woman wants to have sex and not get pregnant then she needs to be the one responsible for birth control. Not to mention in many areas of this country abortion is still legal and she has the right to have one without the consent of the man involved with conception. So yes, women do have control over conception and pregnancy.0 -
This thread makes me sad.
Feminism is not about man hating. It is about gender equality. Of course you get the odd *kitten* hole in feminism, but to say that radical man haters speak for all feminists is like saying that the westboro baptist church speak for all Christians.
I don't know why men are so angry at feminism; it's about them too. To be sexist towards a women is to be sexist towards a man. To say that women should be in the kitchen suggests that men aren't allowed, to say that a woman's only value is their looks is to suggests men are weak and shallow.
Feminism tackles gender violence, it fights rape and domestic abuse, and things like the social acceptance of women slapping men.
Feminism asks that all genders have equal rights in the workplace and home. Feminism means that BOTH genders should have equal pay, equal maternity leave, equal rights to raise a child and have custody.
Feminists want women to have the right to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and lives.
Feminism wants objectification of women to stop, the hyper sexualisation of girls and women to stop - things that are also harmful to men as it gives men and especially young boys an unrealistic expectation of women. It also damages relationships, if men are brought up being taught that the way a woman looks is more important than how she acts, and expects her to be an obedient porn star/cook/servant they will never sustain a healthy relationship.
Feminism is about bringing the genders together, not tearing them apart.
Just because you've been brainwashed into thinking that all feminists are lesbian, man hating, dungaree wearing *****es, doesn't mean they are. It means "the system" is doing it's job, and making you think that it is ridiculous.
I want equal rights between men and women - by oppressing women, you oppress men as well. By creating a female social ideal, you trap yourself into your own one.
Don't judge it by it's name and it's stereotypes, feminism is a movement for men and women, because it benefits us both.
:flowerforyou: 0 -
Humanist here, I didn't think women needed segregating into yet another group.0
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To all the women who arent feminists:
'What do you think feminism IS, ladies? What part of 'liberation for women' is not for you? Is it freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man you marry? The campaign for equal pay? 'Vogue' by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good **** GET ON YOUR NERVES? Or were you just DRUNK AT THE TIME OF THE SURVEY?' - Caitlin Moran
Whats up with you?!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself. The fact that I do not refer to myself as a feminist is because it is often misinterpreted as being anti-man, which I am not.
I've served in the army and work in a predominantly male industry (construction/civil engineering/rigs) and have never experienced any prejudice because I'm a woman - therefore, I don't feel the need to bang on about it and act like a victim.
I'm not disputing the facts but I'm not entirely sure why women are still acting like we're being held back when we've got as much freedom and equality now as we've ever had before.
In fact, I've never earnt less than any man I've worked with in the army or currently and have been promoted above and beyond men who do the job just as good as I do on a fair few occasions now.
The whole thing just sounds like a silly excuse for women to blame their hardships on something else rather than their lack of trying.
Just my personal opinion of course!0 -
Everyone sure gave the OP a hearty welcome.0
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This thread makes me sad.
Feminism is not about man hating. It is about gender equality. Of course you get the odd *kitten* hole in feminism, but to say that radical man haters speak for all feminists is like saying that the westboro baptist church speak for all Christians.
I don't know why men are so angry at feminism; it's about them too. To be sexist towards a women is to be sexist towards a man. To say that women should be in the kitchen suggests that men aren't allowed, to say that a woman's only value is their looks is to suggests men are weak and shallow.
Feminism tackles gender violence, it fights rape and domestic abuse, and things like the social acceptance of women slapping men.
Feminism asks that all genders have equal rights in the workplace and home. Feminism means that BOTH genders should have equal pay, equal maternity leave, equal rights to raise a child and have custody.
Feminists want women to have the right to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and lives.
Feminism wants objectification of women to stop, the hyper sexualisation of girls and women to stop - things that are also harmful to men as it gives men and especially young boys an unrealistic expectation of women. It also damages relationships, if men are brought up being taught that the way a woman looks is more important than how she acts, and expects her to be an obedient porn star/cook/servant they will never sustain a healthy relationship.
Feminism is about bringing the genders together, not tearing them apart.
Just because you've been brainwashed into thinking that all feminists are lesbian, man hating, dungaree wearing *****es, doesn't mean they are. It means "the system" is doing it's job, and making you think that it is ridiculous.
I want equal rights between men and women - by oppressing women, you oppress men as well. By creating a female social ideal, you trap yourself into your own one.
Don't judge it by it's name and it's stereotypes, feminism is a movement for men and women, because it benefits us both.
I absolutely love this. Well said.0 -
Humanist here, I didn't think women needed segregating into yet another group. 0
This discussion has been closed.
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