Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

BrokenButterfly

I had an argument with some people recently about the way vegans/vegetarians and meat eaters view eachother. A girl had posted a long list of 'stupid stuff meat eaters say', which included a lot of arguments for why people can and do eat meat. While I, after a lot of thinking, can see their side of the argument, they refuse to accept that meat eating is a choice and that 'there is no excuse for it'. She would list lots of research which has shown why we don't need meat, why we're not designed for digesting it, the vegan foods that contain more iron etc than meat, how meat is only bad for our health, etc. etc. These people I spoke to would also go on to say that meat eaters are angry towards vegetarians and vegans because we 'can't accept the truth', whereas it's their forceful opinion and absolute certainty that they are right that annoys me. Surely there are benefits to eating meat? Otherwise 95% of the population wouldnt' be eating it.
While I agree that the way we harvest meat is unethical, I personally wouldn't stop eating it simply because I like eating meat and fish.

I'd like to hear what other meat eaters / vegans have to say about this argument. I'm also wondering if there really ARE any actual benefits of meat that we truly can't get from anything else.

contingencyplan

the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.

neanderthin

I don't see it as a debate, I see it as a lifestyle choice, but of course that doesn't mean that this thread isn't going to get ugly, which it will.

wellbert

Why argue anything? To be self righteous? Who are they trying to convince?

I don't care of Joe eats nothing but pig offal and fish brains, and I don't care if Jill snacks on the leafy part of beets while driving her Mini Cooper to the beach to harvest some fresh, delicious, washed up kelp.

momtokgo

I don't see it as a debate, I see it as a lifestyle choice, but of course that doesn't mean that this thread isn't going to get ugly, which it will.

Yep, its going to get nasty.

I very recently stopped eating meat. Not for ethical reasons, but for medical ones. I have IBS, and the biggest triggers are meat. And I have always found meat pretty gross, but I ate it anyway because it was tasty. But honsetly, I don't miss it. At all, and I am getting everything out of my non meat eating diet as I was out of my meat eating diet.

That said, I think there are jeks on both side of this issue. I have read posts by the ethical vegans who say meat is murder and no one should ever ingest it, and from the meat eaters who say you can't survivie without meat.

Personally I couldn't care less what someone chooses to eat, as long as they don't try and push it on me.

ArroganceInStep

I feel the same way about this as I do about religion. Do what you like, I will do my best to respect your views unless you're doing something that I am morally opposed to. I will try to remember your stance and bear that in mind, but cut me some slack if I forget.

If you try to force your way of life on me or ride me too much for not remembering some detail about how you want to live, well then I'll be the pr*ck that actively tries to piss you off and mocks you in public.





Also please pass the bacon.

p_e_wright

It would be a shame if the topic can't be discussed rationally without getting ugly. It's really a personal choice. I've been trying to go with eating clean, which has worked well for me (till I got off track while on vacation about a month ago). I was purchasing my meats from a local farm where I knew the conditions for the animals. But I was getting a lot of beef, which I don't eat much. I decided that it is probably healthier for me to focus on food that the earth offers such as fruits, veggies, and whole grains, so I'm going to try that. I don't plan on being religious about it, but I do want to get most of my food intake from those items as well as dairy products. I will be studying up so I can be sure that I get the vitamins and nutrients that I need though.

BrokenButterfly

Yeah, it probably will get ugly. But i'd really like to see two sides of the argument. Well, there's the argument on the side of vegetarians and vegans for obvious reasons. They have presented a lot of evidence for how meat is bad for our health and how plants can provide any macronutrients that meat can. Although the vitamin B12 i've not seen an argument on the vegan side for.
Plus, there were posts about how those building muscle have apparently started turning to a vegetarian diet because apparently it's better for building?! It's all a little beyond me.
It seems to me that meat-eaters have the 'I don't care what people choose to eat' view whereas vegans tend to not accept this as an 'excuse'.

@momotokgo, I too have IBS symptoms, but meat for me is one of the few things that doesn't irritate my tummy!

impyimpyaj

the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. ... you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.

This.

I personally don't care if people are vegetarian or vegan. I understand their reasoning, and a person can be quite healthy on an animal-free diet. They can also be unhealthy, just as meat eaters can be unhealthy. So I really don't care what people choose to eat, and when my vegetarian sister-in-law comes to visit for a few days, I always make as many vegetarian dishes as I possibly can for her because I want her to feel at home. I don't criticize her food choices, and she doesn't criticize mine. It works well.

That said, I do not take kindly when someone criticizes my decision to continue eating animal products. It's only happened to me once, thank goodness, but I have good reasons for continuing to eat this way, not the least of which is the fact that I simply do not feel well when I don't have at least some meat every day. To each his/her own.

hallie_b

I don't eat meat but my husband does, we don't argue about it. I'm not sure why anyone cares who is eating what- unless it's babies, no one should eat babies. I made a moral decision not to eat meat but I really have no expectations for others to share my views. I can't believe this is an actual debate or how anyone could create sweeping generalizations about people who eat meat or people who don't.
I do sup my B12

Elliemage

I'm vegan, both for ethical reasons as well as health reasons. This lifestyle choice is something I made personally and I do not expect others to necessarily make the same choice themselves, and that's fine.

My issue comes with the CONSTANT (and I do mean constant) commentary on my diet. I am the last person you'll find to deny that there are some very pushy veg*ns out there, but if I am out for friends, rarely a meal passes where someone does not feel the need to make a comment on my plate. They are not always rude comments, but they are always laced with the implication that what I am doing is "crazy" or "weird."

I have personally done a lot of research on my diet. I've read a lot of sources both for an against veg*nism and have reached my own conclusion. Contrary to what the public believes, I do not feel the need to "convert" every omni I meet. My only wish is that I could order my animal-product free lunch just once without someone making a comment about it. I will gladly explain, really! I'm happy to tell you how I reached the particular conclusion that I did, but labelling me as preachy when I'm responding (rather kindly, most of the time) to japes like "well, um, cavemen ate meat! Look, we have canines!" in a sarcastic tone is a little ridiculous.

BrokenButterfly

It would be a shame if the topic can't be discussed rationally without getting ugly. It's really a personal choice. I've been trying to go with eating clean, which has worked well for me (till I got off track while on vacation about a month ago). I was purchasing my meats from a local farm where I knew the conditions for the animals. But I was getting a lot of beef, which I don't eat much. I decided that it is probably healthier for me to focus on food that the earth offers such as fruits, veggies, and whole grains, so I'm going to try that. I don't plan on being religious about it, but I do want to get most of my food intake from those items as well as dairy products. I will be studying up so I can be sure that I get the vitamins and nutrients that I need though.

Yes, i'd really love for this to be discussed rationally, as i'm genuinely interested in what both sides think.
I feel, again from my own views here, that the reason some meat-eaters can be aggressive towards vegans/vegetarians is due to the forceful and 'this is right and you are wrong' attitude that I witnessed. Even if eating meat isn't beneficial to us, then it's the same as eating cookies and chocolate and other 'dirty' foods.

luckylou19

The biggest thing about being a vegan is balancing your protein content. Most non-meat sources of protein are an incomplete protein, however this can be balanced by selecting a variety of vegetable sources that compliment each other. With this in mind, also take a dietary supplement as vitamins like B12 I believe can only be obtained from meat sources or a supplement. Oh - I am not a vegan

One complete source of vegan protein that I read about is hemp protein, but this contains a fair amount of carbohydrate. Sorry, buying this in the health food store will give you the same effects as what some people smoke.

For what is worth, this subject can be objectively answered by science so there is really no reason for a debate. I hope this is helpful to you.

joejccva71

If humans weren't designed to eat meat and digest it, then care to explain the Paleolithic era? I don't know about you, but I don't remember reading many cavemen that didn't eat meat.

Not going to start an argument with anyone as I completely respect vegans and vegetarians IF they are doing it for the right reasons.

If you're a vegan or a vegetarian that is doing it cause you think it's "healthier" not to eat meat products...well then I have news for you that might hurt your feelings.

impyimpyaj

I'm vegan, both for ethical reasons as well as health reasons. This lifestyle choice is something I made personally and I do not expect others to necessarily make the same choice themselves, and that's fine.

My issue comes with the CONSTANT (and I do mean constant) commentary on my diet. I am the last person you'll find to deny that there are some very pushy veg*ns out there, but if I am out for friends, rarely a meal passes where someone does not feel the need to make a comment on my plate. They are not always rude comments, but they are always laced with the implication that what I am doing is "crazy" or "weird."

I have personally done a lot of research on my diet. I've read a lot of sources both for an against veg*nism and have reached my own conclusion. Contrary to what the public believes, I do not feel the need to "convert" every omni I meet. My only wish is that I could order my animal-product free lunch just once without someone making a comment about it. I will gladly explain, really! I'm happy to tell you how I reached the particular conclusion that I did, but labelling me as preachy when I'm responding (rather kindly, most of the time) to japes like "well, um, cavemen ate meat! Look, we have canines!" in a sarcastic tone is a little ridiculous.

See, and I think this is stupid. Not you, but your friends. Why do they care? Don't they care enough about you to respect your choices? I think it's cool to ask questions and open up a dialogue. But you shouldn't bug someone every time they eat. That's just rude.

BrokenButterfly

I'm vegan, both for ethical reasons as well as health reasons. This lifestyle choice is something I made personally and I do not expect others to necessarily make the same choice themselves, and that's fine.

My issue comes with the CONSTANT (and I do mean constant) commentary on my diet. I am the last person you'll find to deny that there are some very pushy veg*ns out there, but if I am out for friends, rarely a meal passes where someone does not feel the need to make a comment on my plate. They are not always rude comments, but they are always laced with the implication that what I am doing is "crazy" or "weird."

I have personally done a lot of research on my diet. I've read a lot of sources both for an against veg*nism and have reached my own conclusion. Contrary to what the public believes, I do not feel the need to "convert" every omni I meet. My only wish is that I could order my animal-product free lunch just once without someone making a comment about it. I will gladly explain, really! I'm happy to tell you how I reached the particular conclusion that I did, but labelling me as preachy when I'm responding (rather kindly, most of the time) to japes like "well, um, cavemen ate meat! Look, we have canines!" in a sarcastic tone is a little ridiculous.

Yes! This is what I've been considering.
The vegans I spoke to mentioned the constant judgement they get just because they're not eating animal products. Which I really don't understand! I can't see the reasoning behind a meat-eater arguing against a choice like this.
There seems to be a LOT of judgement on both sides when one is confronted by the other.

LovelyLifter

If humans weren't designed to eat meat and digest it, then care to explain the Paleolithic era? I don't know about you, but I don't remember reading many cavemen that didn't eat meat.

Not going to start an argument with anyone as I completely respect vegans and vegetarians IF they are doing it for the right reasons.

If you are a vegan or a vegetarian that is doing it cause you think it's "healthier" not to eat meat products...well then I have news for you that might hurt your feelings.

BrokenButterfly

The biggest thing about being a vegan is balancing your protein content. Most non-meat sources of protein are an incomplete protein, however this can be balanced by selecting a variety of vegetable sources that compliment each other. With this in mind, also take a dietary supplement as vitamins like B12 I believe can only be obtained from meat sources or a supplement. Oh - I am not a vegan

One complete source of vegan protein that I read about is hemp protein, but this contains a far amount of carbohydrate. Sorry, buying this in the health food store will give you the same effects as what some people smoke.

For what is worth, this subject can be objectively answered by science so there is really no reason for a debate. I hope this is helpful to you.

Yeah, any scientific evidence is greatly appreciated here! I'd just like to hear what others have found! I heard about having to select a range of plant foods to get the full benefit of some macronutrients that we get from meat.
The only problem with science, I find, is that you can come across research that says one thing and then get something else that disproves it! It's all very circular.

BrokenButterfly

If humans weren't designed to eat meat and digest it, then care to explain the Paleolithic era? I don't know about you, but I don't remember reading many cavemen that didn't eat meat.

Not going to start an argument with anyone as I completely respect vegans and vegetarians IF they are doing it for the right reasons.

If you're a vegan or a vegetarian that is doing it cause you think it's "healthier" not to eat meat products...well then I have news for you that might hurt your feelings.

I read that our digestive tracts are between those of a carnivore and herbivore, but still a little longer, suggesting that we need more of a herbivore diet. And something along the lines of cavement being 'scavengers' before they developed large enough brains to hunt for their own meat.

luckylou19

I am not a vegan. In my opinion, cavemen were in survival mode and ate anything they could. We also owe them for eating poisonous foods as it was by trial and error we learned what NOT to eat. In terms of what I understand the science to indicate, I believe a balanced vegan or meat-based diets are equally healthy. If my understanding is correct, choice between vegan and meat based diets is more of a philosophical discussion. Again, just my opinion.

futuremalestripper

I eat meat, but I make sure it's all free range. My girlfriend is vegan and we get along just fine, but she won't cook my food. lol. I think people can be just as healthy on a vegetarian diet as with a meat eating diet. As for vegan, I question if they are really getting everything that their body needs, but my girlfriend seems to do just fine. For me, I like the taste and I honestly feel better when I'm drinking my milk and eating my chicken than when I am eating tofu. I don't think a lot of vegetarians/vegans oppose the taste since a lot of the vegan/veg food at the store is "meatless hamburgers", "meatless chicken nuggets", "meatless bacon", etc. It's just the source obviously - they don't want animals to suffer. Which I respect whole-heartedly. I just think of it more as a food chain thing. This animal eats that one, who eats that one, who eats that one... I don't oppose a lion for eating an antelope - it is the circle of life in my eyes. That lion will one day be eaten as well.

Lift_hard_eat_big

I love meat too much to refrain from eating it. I don't care if anyone else chooses not to eat meat, that is their personal decision.

Phrak

If humans weren't designed to eat meat and digest it, then care to explain the Paleolithic era? I don't know about you, but I don't remember reading many cavemen that didn't eat meat.

Not going to start an argument with anyone as I completely respect vegans and vegetarians IF they are doing it for the right reasons.

If you're a vegan or a vegetarian that is doing it cause you think it's "healthier" not to eat meat products...well then I have news for you that might hurt your feelings.

You could also say, modern humans arnt designed to digest leafy greens. We lack a certain functioning organ to digest them. The appendix used to be much larger, like the one found in gorillas/apes, and now is just evolutionary baggage.

ItsMandeeBitch

Bump

joejccva71

The biggest thing about being a vegan is balancing your protein content. Most non-meat sources of protein are an incomplete protein, however this can be balanced by selecting a variety of vegetable sources that compliment each other. With this in mind, also take a dietary supplement as vitamins like B12 I believe can only be obtained from meat sources or a supplement. Oh - I am not a vegan

One complete source of vegan protein that I read about is hemp protein, but this contains a far amount of carbohydrate. Sorry, buying this in the health food store will give you the same effects as what some people smoke.

For what is worth, this subject can be objectively answered by science so there is really no reason for a debate. I hope this is helpful to you.

Yeah, any scientific evidence is greatly appreciated here! I'd just like to hear what others have found! I heard about having to select a range of plant foods to get the full benefit of some macronutrients that we get from meat.
The only problem with science, I find, is that you can come across research that says one thing and then get something else that disproves it! It's all very circular.

What science do you need?

Complete proteins contain all the essential amino acids that the body can't produce on it's own.

Incomplete proteins (plant proteins) do not and lack one or more of the 9 essentials.

hallie_b

I'm vegan, both for ethical reasons as well as health reasons. This lifestyle choice is something I made personally and I do not expect others to necessarily make the same choice themselves, and that's fine.

My issue comes with the CONSTANT (and I do mean constant) commentary on my diet. I am the last person you'll find to deny that there are some very pushy veg*ns out there, but if I am out for friends, rarely a meal passes where someone does not feel the need to make a comment on my plate. They are not always rude comments, but they are always laced with the implication that what I am doing is "crazy" or "weird."

I have personally done a lot of research on my diet. I've read a lot of sources both for an against veg*nism and have reached my own conclusion. Contrary to what the public believes, I do not feel the need to "convert" every omni I meet. My only wish is that I could order my animal-product free lunch just once without someone making a comment about it. I will gladly explain, really! I'm happy to tell you how I reached the particular conclusion that I did, but labelling me as preachy when I'm responding (rather kindly, most of the time) to japes like "well, um, cavemen ate meat! Look, we have canines!" in a sarcastic tone is a little ridiculous.

I had to add- I get the opposite reaction when ordering food. I wish people did not treat me like I am some kind of judgemental b***h or stuck up just because I ordered something sans bacon. If an pushy person gave you crap about your meat eating, I'm sorry. I'm not that person, please don't treat me like it.

BrokenButterfly

If humans weren't designed to eat meat and digest it, then care to explain the Paleolithic era? I don't know about you, but I don't remember reading many cavemen that didn't eat meat.

Not going to start an argument with anyone as I completely respect vegans and vegetarians IF they are doing it for the right reasons.

If you're a vegan or a vegetarian that is doing it cause you think it's "healthier" not to eat meat products...well then I have news for you that might hurt your feelings.

You could also say, modern humans arnt designed to digest leafy greens. We lack a certain functioning organ to digest them. The appendix used to be much larger, like the one found in gorillas/apes, and now is just evolutionary baggage.

Just like the whales pelvis!

luckylou19

If the science is of question, talk to a registered dietician not a doctor. Doctors do not have the same level of education, training and experience as does a registered dietician. Notice the good hospitals have dietitians on staff - this is why. It is difficult for a lay person to fully interpret the science, especially when there is apparent conflicting information. But as a dietician, they have the skill to judge the credibility of these studies. I am not a dietician, but am working with one. Oh one more point in that dietitians are paid more closely to what school teachers are paid so they are in this for the love of their field not to get rich. Again, hope this is of help.

luckylou19

The essential amino acids is basic stuff but to objectively to answer further science questions it gets deep quickly. I have a background in food chemistry and had classes with the nutrition students hence why I have such a healthy respect for their insights.

joejccva71

The essential amino acids is basic stuff but to objectively to answer further science questions it gets deep quickly. I have a background in food chemistry and had classes with the nutrition students hence why I have such a healthy respect for their insights.

My friend you don't need to keep telling us your resume. ;-)

Enlighten us.

TheWinman

I'm vegan, both for ethical reasons as well as health reasons. This lifestyle choice is something I made personally and I do not expect others to necessarily make the same choice themselves, and that's fine.

My issue comes with the CONSTANT (and I do mean constant) commentary on my diet. I am the last person you'll find to deny that there are some very pushy veg*ns out there, but if I am out for friends, rarely a meal passes where someone does not feel the need to make a comment on my plate. They are not always rude comments, but they are always laced with the implication that what I am doing is "crazy" or "weird."

I have personally done a lot of research on my diet. I've read a lot of sources both for an against veg*nism and have reached my own conclusion. Contrary to what the public believes, I do not feel the need to "convert" every omni I meet. My only wish is that I could order my animal-product free lunch just once without someone making a comment about it. I will gladly explain, really! I'm happy to tell you how I reached the particular conclusion that I did, but labelling me as preachy when I'm responding (rather kindly, most of the time) to japes like "well, um, cavemen ate meat! Look, we have canines!" in a sarcastic tone is a little ridiculous.

I don't want to sound mean because I don't know you or your friends, but maybe you need to rethink some of those friendships. Good friends support your choices even if they don't really agree with them. It's one thing to make a joking comment, but to make rude comments is not acceptable.

I don't care either way, people can choose how they want to eat.