Meat eating vs. Vegan debate
Replies
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i think choosing to be vegan or vegatarian is totally okay, and so is eating meat. Your boyd actually needs a certain amount of meat due to the protein. yes u can find protein else where but it is the most effcient way of receiving it... i think eating TOO MUCH of anything is bad0
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Raising animals for food requires lots more land than growing crops. That's because animals eat a lot more food than they provide as meat. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef. That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce. They're food factories in reverse.
Animal farming wastes huge amounts of land. The point is that going meatless requires far, far less land and other resources than our normal eating habits do.
(http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html)
I've read this site, but I can never find where they site their sources
Shame.
I already linked to this. The whole matter of how much grain it takes to make one pound of meat is complex. Here's a link to give you some idea:
http://www.extension.org/pages/35850/on-average-how-many-pounds-of-corn-make-one-pound-of-beef-assuming-an-all-grain-diet-from-backgroundi
Bottom line: it takes AT LEAST two pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat, and possibly more.0 -
SERIOUSLY?
Cows need to be milk and get stressed if they are not, its a relief for them when they are milked.
Cows provide milk for baby cows. When the baby stops drinking milk, the cows stop producing milk.
Just like a woman who has a child doesn't breastfeed for the rest of her life and have to pump every day. A cow that births a calf doesn't need to produce milk once that calf is weaned.
Milking a cow in a dairy farm is torture, pure and simple. The cows nipples are chafed and raw. They are uncomfortable and crowded into tiny spaces and hooked up to metal robot arms to milk them. For a dairy cow to get milked it is anything but a relief.
SERIOUSLY!0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.0
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Yes, but again, if you stop raising those animals for food, and decide to use the land used for their food source to feed humans, you've just effectively exterminated an entire species of animal. Where do you think the billions of cattle will go if the ranchers stop raising them? Won't they still need all that food to survive? Won't that lead to widespread destruction of farm land anyway? Vegans like to throw out the quick statistics like that, but, usually fail to think all the way through to the end result. Either the farmed animals would all go extinct, or all the land we'd supposedly save by not farming the animals would go to the animals anyway to keep them alive. Doesn't that basically negate the entire vegan don't kill animals argument?
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
Raising animals for food requires lots more land than growing crops. That's because animals eat a lot more food than they provide as meat. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef. That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce. They're food factories in reverse.
Animal farming wastes huge amounts of land. The point is that going meatless requires far, far less land and other resources than our normal eating habits do.
(http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html)0 -
I had an argument with some people recently about the way vegans/vegetarians and meat eaters view eachother. A girl had posted a long list of 'stupid stuff meat eaters say', which included a lot of arguments for why people can and do eat meat. While I, after a lot of thinking, can see their side of the argument, they refuse to accept that meat eating is a choice and that 'there is no excuse for it'. She would list lots of research which has shown why we don't need meat, why we're not designed for digesting it, the vegan foods that contain more iron etc than meat, how meat is only bad for our health, etc. etc. These people I spoke to would also go on to say that meat eaters are angry towards vegetarians and vegans because we 'can't accept the truth', whereas it's their forceful opinion and absolute certainty that they are right that annoys me. Surely there are benefits to eating meat? Otherwise 95% of the population wouldnt' be eating it.
While I agree that the way we harvest meat is unethical, I personally wouldn't stop eating it simply because I like eating meat and fish.
I'd like to hear what other meat eaters / vegans have to say about this argument. I'm also wondering if there really ARE any actual benefits of meat that we truly can't get from anything else.
You really have to define the argument you want to talk about more carefully. There are several possibilities:
Are humans carnivores? Answer No. we are herbivores. This is demonstrated by our physiology, dentition and history. Can we eat meat? Yes, a wolf or a tiger can also eat berries. That does not make them herbivores. As for whether we are omnivores, virtually all animals are omnivores in the sense that they CAN eat both meat and vegetables. Omnivore is not a valid classification in my opinion.
Does eating meat harm you? There are many many stufies that show that eating meat can cause occlusion of the arteries, obesity, diabetes, and other chronic health problems. There is not one single study that shows that eating vegetables can harm you. None. Nada Nichts
Are there moral issues? Of course. If you believe in the Golden Rule, then you are a hypocrite if you eat dead animals. If you claim you are an environmentalist, you are a hypocrite unless you are vegetarian. If you claim you like animals then....well you get the picture.
So do you want to talk about health issues, moral issues, scientific evidence or whatever? Define what you want to discuiss.
Everything and anything surrounding this issue. Talking with the people I spoke to a few days ago brought a LOT of things to my attention that i'd never even thought about before. And this is exactly the example I posted a few minutes ago (the example post of why humans aren't omnivores)
Then it is a huge topic. People aren't omnivores because they are herbovores. Herbovores have large grinding teeth in the back of their mouths, very small front teeth, not good for ripping meat or bringing down an animal, and long inetstines, which are great for getting nutrients out of plants but which are so long they allow meet to putrify on the way out, causing, among other things, colon cancer. Vegetarians very rarely get colon cancer. There are many other differences as well, but those are probably the easiest ones to see.0 -
SERIOUSLY?
Cows need to be milk and get stressed if they are not, its a relief for them when they are milked.
Cows provide milk for baby cows. When the baby stops drinking milk, the cows stop producing milk.
Just like a woman who has a child doesn't breastfeed for the rest of her life and have to pump every day. A cow that births a calf doesn't need to produce milk once that calf is weaned.
Milking a cow in a dairy farm is torture, pure and simple. The cows nipples are chafed and raw. They are uncomfortable and crowded into tiny spaces and hooked up to metal robot arms to milk them. For a dairy cow to get milked it is anything but a relief.
SERIOUSLY!
Wouldn't it be ridiculous if mammals did NEED to be milked! How grumpy would us ladies be then?!0 -
I'd just like to point out that machines used in agriculture kills thousands of animals a year. I know a lot of people are vegan because they don't want to harm animals, but the truth is that unless you grow all of your food yourself and harvest it in a way that doesn't kill anything (hand picking it, basically), you're harming animals.
Yes, let me go murder some cows, pigs, and chickens because its better that I kill them all intentionally, rather than some unintentionally. Makes a lot of sense. Veganism is about doing the LEAST amount of harm.0 -
Yes, but again, if you stop raising those animals for food, and decide to use the land used for their food source to feed humans, you've just effectively exterminated an entire species of animal. Where do you think the billions of cattle will go if the ranchers stop raising them? Won't they still need all that food to survive? Won't that lead to widespread destruction of farm land anyway? Vegans like to throw out the quick statistics like that, but, usually fail to think all the way through to the end result. Either the farmed animals would all go extinct, or all the land we'd supposedly save by not farming the animals would go to the animals anyway to keep them alive. Doesn't that basically negate the entire vegan don't kill animals argument?
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
Raising animals for food requires lots more land than growing crops. That's because animals eat a lot more food than they provide as meat. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef. That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce. They're food factories in reverse.
Animal farming wastes huge amounts of land. The point is that going meatless requires far, far less land and other resources than our normal eating habits do.
(http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html)
I don't think you read everything through. I didn't throw out a quick statistic, it is years of environmental research.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.0 -
I'd just like to point out that machines used in agriculture kills thousands of animals a year. I know a lot of people are vegan because they don't want to harm animals, but the truth is that unless you grow all of your food yourself and harvest it in a way that doesn't kill anything (hand picking it, basically), you're harming animals.
Yes, let me go murder some cows, pigs, and chickens because its better that I kill them all intentionally, rather than some unintentionally. Makes a lot of sense. Veganism is about doing the LEAST amount of harm.
That's not what I was implying. Some vegans/vegetarians do think that they don't kill any animals, hence people saying stuff like "i dont want an animal to die for my sandwich" etc. No need to get catty, just pointing it out.0 -
Yep, the smell of freshly cut grass is grass calling out a warning. Plants don't have nervous systems like animals, but they do have their own versions. Look at how some plants respond to touch, touch a plant consistently on one side, and it will start growing more on the other side to get away from the obstruction. Some plants sense dowels and trellises to wrap around and climb up. Some are able to rotate and turn themselves toward light sources, and some respond to sounds. They also breathe. Plants are just as much alive as any animal.I am a proud vegetarian myself, I don't push it onto people I just don't feel like something should die for me to eat when it doesn't need to. I love educating people though when they ask questions
Aren't you killing that plant when you're chewing on it?
Another frequent discussion amongst vegans / meat-eaters. Their argument is that plants don't have a nervous system to feel pain etc. etc.
I read an article a few weeks back that said they've determined that peas communicate, and therefore could be considered sentient. I rolled my eyes. People have to eat SOMETHING. Please don't freak out the vegans and vegetarians by telling them peas are sentient.
Yeah, sure. I also heard that grass clippings are a warning sign to blades of grass to protect themselves.
Plants also don't react or scream out in pain when you kill them. Relating to a plant is completely different than relating to an animal.0 -
SERIOUSLY?
Cows need to be milk and get stressed if they are not, its a relief for them when they are milked.
Cows provide milk for baby cows. When the baby stops drinking milk, the cows stop producing milk.
Just like a woman who has a child doesn't breastfeed for the rest of her life and have to pump every day. A cow that births a calf doesn't need to produce milk once that calf is weaned.
Milking a cow in a dairy farm is torture, pure and simple. The cows nipples are chafed and raw. They are uncomfortable and crowded into tiny spaces and hooked up to metal robot arms to milk them. For a dairy cow to get milked it is anything but a relief.
SERIOUSLY!
Wouldn't it be ridiculous if mammals did NEED to be milked! How grumpy would us ladies be then?!
Yes, and yes. Cows produce milk for their young. They stop producing it when they stop being milked. Some breeds are created by humans because they produce more milk at one time, but even they would stop producing if they stopped being milked gradually, like a baby cow would wean. People don't need milk at all. It's made for baby cows, not people. I'm not vegetarian, and I do like my dairy, but it's absolutely not an essential food.0 -
Yes, but again, if you stop raising those animals for food, and decide to use the land used for their food source to feed humans, you've just effectively exterminated an entire species of animal. Where do you think the billions of cattle will go if the ranchers stop raising them? Won't they still need all that food to survive? Won't that lead to widespread destruction of farm land anyway? Vegans like to throw out the quick statistics like that, but, usually fail to think all the way through to the end result. Either the farmed animals would all go extinct, or all the land we'd supposedly save by not farming the animals would go to the animals anyway to keep them alive. Doesn't that basically negate the entire vegan don't kill animals argument?
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
Raising animals for food requires lots more land than growing crops. That's because animals eat a lot more food than they provide as meat. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef. That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce. They're food factories in reverse.
Animal farming wastes huge amounts of land. The point is that going meatless requires far, far less land and other resources than our normal eating habits do.
(http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html)
Your comments are a variation of the 'suddenly vegan' world argument. I doubt this would ever happen. I actually hope that ways are found to make really good 'lab meat.' Yes, you still have to keep animals to harvest some cells to start the meat growing. Wish that weren't so, but the net savings in animal suffering seems worth it to me. I would actually love to be able to feed my cats--obligate carnivores--lab meat.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Thank you for your input. It's just so difficult to know what can REALLY be done when such a large percentage of the population does eat meat - obviously promoting an area of marketing to farmers. I really don't want to upset, offend, or make you feel like i'm attacking you. But from what I experienced the other day, it was quite an attack on meat-eaters from the individuals I spoke to. I feel that if the strong believers in being a vegan continued to present their factual information without being aggressive about it then many many more would probably turn to vegan / vegetarianism. And it goes both ways. When people feel attacked, they retaliate negatively.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.0 -
Agreed!!! Some form of animal products is need in our diet but it doesn't have to be meat. It can be milk, egg, cheese, yogurt etc that will fulfill Vitamin B12 requirement
You do not NEED animal products in your diet to be healthy. It's already been stated, but there are other ways to get B12. Such as a supplement.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.
More flies with honey...0 -
Agreed!!! Some form of animal products is need in our diet but it doesn't have to be meat. It can be milk, egg, cheese, yogurt etc that will fulfill Vitamin B12 requirement
You do not NEED animal products in your diet to be healthy. It's already been stated, but there are other ways to get B12. Such as a supplement.
But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?0 -
The extremists are out and posting in this topic now. What a way to ruin a good informative thread.0
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I tried being vegan... but the truth is I how meat tastes way too much and dislike many of the protein sources for vegans. That being said....they should really find ways to treat animals more humanely and be feeding them their proper diets (NOT CORN). That would go a long way.
Other than that all I can say it what I say about almost any other debate... I will respect your opinion unless you have no valid reasons for having that opinion, or until you try to convert me or you attack my opinion. No one has the right to tell another person what they can and can't eat. It's plain and simple.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:0 -
If you want to rely on amazing and insightful "real people" gems such as "Cows need to be milk and get stressed if they are not, its a relief for them when they are milked." go ahead. I'll stick with info from people who actually have had training/education and do research.0
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Yes, but setting aside lands just for cows would kind of go eliminate the advantage of having more room by not eating cows, wouldn't it? Besides, who would give up their land, so that cows would have a place to live? Ranchers? Doubt it, they'd convert their land to something that they could profit from. Farmers, who essentially wiped out the natural habitats of cattle and buffalo to build their farms a couple hundred years ago? Nope, won't happen there, either, as that completely kills the concept. Cows wouldn't have anywhere to go. Most breeds of chicken have been cross bred for meat yield, and would absolutely not survive, as most of them can barely even walk, and certainly can't fly any more. Some pigs would be abler to survive, again, some breeds wouldn't. No matter how you look at it, it would still mean the assured death of billions of animals, and entire species.Farm animals that are raised for meat are unable to survive on their own. If the entire world suddenly turned vegan, cattle (meat and dairy,) chickens, pigs, would all basically become extinct.
Mmm, not really.
Pigs go feral extremely easily and quickly. They're a huge problem in some states.
Holsteins would have some serious issues, but more primitive breeds of dairy cows and many of the beef cows would do okay if we reserved a range for them. Beef cows that have been accustomed to a management-intensive style of life probably wouldn't.
Sheep, on the other hand, are far too stupid to survive on their own unless it's like an isolated island :P
While I agree with you on the billions of animals, I don't believe the species would go extinct. Many breeds of cows are still adapted to running on scrubland, and many of the heritage breeds of chickens would do just fine. When we moved out of Wisconsin, we had a strain of feral chickens (mostly ameraucana heritage) on our farm that had been propagating themselves for several years. Their flying ability had developed amazingly. 'course, we never did make a concerted effort to root them out. Furthermore, there will always be wildlife parks, and animals (other than sheep, because they are brain-dead) could fit into them just fine.
Note: I'm not for the idea. I'm not a vegan. But 'the animals will go extinct' isn't really a good argument against it. There are plenty of good arguments, why use that one? :P0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:
Amazeballs is used all the time and probably not in the dictionary... yet. Language is always being enhanced and developed. Please don't be mean when someone is just presenting their defence.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.
How cute. You're trying to derail me with the tone argument. I go about it with love and compassion for those who humans refuse to acknowledge. I cannot respect a lifestyle choice I find so horrific. I hope one day you (and everyone else on this thread) finds the compassion to make a positive change in their lives and the lives of others.0 -
sorry I meant many["Most" omnivores are not using soy formula for their babies.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.
How cute. You're trying to derail me with the tone argument. I go about it with love and compassion for those who humans refuse to acknowledge. I cannot respect a lifestyle choice I find so horrific. I hope one day you (and everyone else on this thread) finds the compassion to make a positive change in their lives and the lives of others.
I'm not trying to derail you. I'm saying, if you feel so strongly, find a way to actually get your message across instead of being confrontational. I'm always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, when those viewpoints are stated respectfully. If you choose not to be respectful, that's fine, but you're probably not going to convince many people. And thanks, but my life is good. I treat others with compassion. And respect. Even when I disagree with them.0
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