Meat eating vs. Vegan debate
Replies
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But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?
I posted this on PAGE TWO - but it got overlooked. Here it is, this is how people used to get B12.the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.
This is false. Or, at least not completely true.
B12 is found in soil/dirt. Because animals eat plants that grow in dirt, they absorb the B12 and then pass it on to people who eat the animals.
People *used* to get plenty of B12 just from eating fruit and vegetables. The soil was full of B12 and some of that transferred to the veg. Nowadays, soil is very depleted. Plus, people go crazy washing their fruit and veg with rinses and such. We don't get *as much* B12 from fruit and veg as we used to.
But you can EASILY supplement B12 with fortified foods - tofu, non-dairy milks, etc... Or you can work nutritional yeast into your diet in the form of a topping for foods or as it's own sauce, etc. There are PLENTY of ways to get B12 without eating meat.
I get my bloodwork done every year (as a vegan, I believe this is important). I've never had a deficiency in any areas. I take a vegan multi-vitamin and eat nutrional yeast once a week or so. I'm a very healthy person.
You can be healthy by eating meat or by not eating meat. For me, it's a moral issue. I can be healthy without the meat so there is no reason for me to contribute to the death of an animal for sustenance. That's all there is too it!0 -
If you want to rely on amazing and insightful "real people" gems such as "Cows need to be milk and get stressed if they are not, its a relief for them when they are milked." go ahead. I'll stick with info from people who actually have had training/education and do research.
Some of those people are joining the discussion. I just like to hear the opinions of others. And besides, discussions like this may raise their understanding of things that they've never thought about before.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.
How cute. You're trying to derail me with the tone argument. I go about it with love and compassion for those who humans refuse to acknowledge. I cannot respect a lifestyle choice I find so horrific. I hope one day you (and everyone else on this thread) finds the compassion to make a positive change in their lives and the lives of others.
I'm not trying to derail you. I'm saying, if you feel so strongly, find a way to actually get your message across instead of being confrontational. I'm always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, when those viewpoints are stated respectfully. If you choose not to be respectful, that's fine, but you're probably not going to convince many people. And thanks, but my life is good. I treat others with compassion. And respect. Even when I disagree with them.
Can we give this part of the thread up now and get back to business?0 -
But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?
I posted this on PAGE TWO - but it got overlooked. Here it is, this is how people used to get B12.the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.
This is false. Or, at least not completely true.
B12 is found in soil/dirt. Because animals eat plants that grow in dirt, they absorb the B12 and then pass it on to people who eat the animals.
People *used* to get plenty of B12 just from eating fruit and vegetables. The soil was full of B12 and some of that transferred to the veg. Nowadays, soil is very depleted. Plus, people go crazy washing their fruit and veg with rinses and such. We don't get *as much* B12 from fruit and veg as we used to.
But you can EASILY supplement B12 with fortified foods - tofu, non-dairy milks, etc... Or you can work nutritional yeast into your diet in the form of a topping for foods or as it's own sauce, etc. There are PLENTY of ways to get B12 without eating meat.
I get my bloodwork done every year (as a vegan, I believe this is important). I've never had a deficiency in any areas. I take a vegan multi-vitamin and eat nutrional yeast once a week or so. I'm a very healthy person.
You can be healthy by eating meat or by not eating meat. For me, it's a moral issue. I can be healthy without the meat so there is no reason for me to contribute to the death of an animal for sustenance. That's all there is too it!
Thanks! This thread did get away from me. I probably missed a lot.
Thanks for taking the time to repost for me. That makes a lot of sense, actually. 0 -
Agreed!!! Some form of animal products is need in our diet but it doesn't have to be meat. It can be milk, egg, cheese, yogurt etc that will fulfill Vitamin B12 requirement
You do not NEED animal products in your diet to be healthy. It's already been stated, but there are other ways to get B12. Such as a supplement.
But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?
I Google it because I had no idea, and supplements are vegan, unless there is gelatin in the capsules. And before supplements? No idea.0 -
But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?
I posted this on PAGE TWO - but it got overlooked. Here it is, this is how people used to get B12.the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.
This is false. Or, at least not completely true.
B12 is found in soil/dirt. Because animals eat plants that grow in dirt, they absorb the B12 and then pass it on to people who eat the animals.
People *used* to get plenty of B12 just from eating fruit and vegetables. The soil was full of B12 and some of that transferred to the veg. Nowadays, soil is very depleted. Plus, people go crazy washing their fruit and veg with rinses and such. We don't get *as much* B12 from fruit and veg as we used to.
But you can EASILY supplement B12 with fortified foods - tofu, non-dairy milks, etc... Or you can work nutritional yeast into your diet in the form of a topping for foods or as it's own sauce, etc. There are PLENTY of ways to get B12 without eating meat.
I get my bloodwork done every year (as a vegan, I believe this is important). I've never had a deficiency in any areas. I take a vegan multi-vitamin and eat nutrional yeast once a week or so. I'm a very healthy person.
You can be healthy by eating meat or by not eating meat. For me, it's a moral issue. I can be healthy without the meat so there is no reason for me to contribute to the death of an animal for sustenance. That's all there is too it!
Just to add to this discussion, here's how vitamin B12 supplements are made: Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms.[35] Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years.[36][37] The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium shermanii are more commonly used today0 -
But how did people get their B12 before supplements were invented? I'm not being confrontational, it's something that I've seriously thought about. And what are B12 supplements made from?
I posted this on PAGE TWO - but it got overlooked. Here it is, this is how people used to get B12.the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.
This is false. Or, at least not completely true.
B12 is found in soil/dirt. Because animals eat plants that grow in dirt, they absorb the B12 and then pass it on to people who eat the animals.
People *used* to get plenty of B12 just from eating fruit and vegetables. The soil was full of B12 and some of that transferred to the veg. Nowadays, soil is very depleted. Plus, people go crazy washing their fruit and veg with rinses and such. We don't get *as much* B12 from fruit and veg as we used to.
But you can EASILY supplement B12 with fortified foods - tofu, non-dairy milks, etc... Or you can work nutritional yeast into your diet in the form of a topping for foods or as it's own sauce, etc. There are PLENTY of ways to get B12 without eating meat.
I get my bloodwork done every year (as a vegan, I believe this is important). I've never had a deficiency in any areas. I take a vegan multi-vitamin and eat nutrional yeast once a week or so. I'm a very healthy person.
You can be healthy by eating meat or by not eating meat. For me, it's a moral issue. I can be healthy without the meat so there is no reason for me to contribute to the death of an animal for sustenance. That's all there is too it!
Just to add to this discussion, here's how vitamin B12 supplements are made: Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms.[35] Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years.[36][37] The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium shermanii are more commonly used today
That makes sense too. I know the pseudomonas bacterium lives in the dirt, so it would make sense that vegetables that are allowed to ripen in the dirt would contain B12, since that's what they use to make the supplement.0 -
Welcome!
It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help! 0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.
I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.
I'm quite comfortable. Nobody's attacking vegans here. It's a conversation. For every scientific study that says humans don't need meat, there's another that says we do. It all depends on the researcher and what they want to prove. Who knows which side is right?
If you don't eat meat for moral reasons, then really, that's awesome. I'm glad that you feel strongly about something and stand up for what you believe is right. But just as I'm not going to go around telling everybody who isn't Christian that they're heathens and going to hell, you might want to think about your tone when talking to people about this particular matter. You want to convert people? Awesome! Go for it. But do it with love. People aren't often swayed by confrontational language.
How cute. You're trying to derail me with the tone argument. I go about it with love and compassion for those who humans refuse to acknowledge. I cannot respect a lifestyle choice I find so horrific. I hope one day you (and everyone else on this thread) finds the compassion to make a positive change in their lives and the lives of others.
I'm not trying to derail you. I'm saying, if you feel so strongly, find a way to actually get your message across instead of being confrontational. I'm always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, when those viewpoints are stated respectfully. If you choose not to be respectful, that's fine, but you're probably not going to convince many people. And thanks, but my life is good. I treat others with compassion. And respect. Even when I disagree with them.
Can we give this part of the thread up now and get back to business?
Seconded! Do not reply to anything that may cause an actual argument. It's best to just let it go, because that's their opinion which they are entitled to.0 -
I love meat and honestly haven't ever given much thought to the whole free range/animal cruelty side of it. For me personally: They're animals and they taste good. Do I respect vegetarians/vegans? Absolutely. I've had vegetarian/vegan cooking and it can be really tasty. I have friends who choose to be vegans for a number of reasons. One in particular when I was in college used to give me friendly cr*p about eating flesh, and I would give her friendly cr*p about eating rabbit food. We'd smile and chow down on our respective meals.
I really feel that at the end of the day no one has it completely figured out, in terms of the best/healthiest diet. All we can do is the best we can do to feed our bodies and walk around in our skin a little longer. What works for me is eating animal products in conjunction with a lot of other things that taste good and give me nutrients.
To each their own. I really don't judge people on what they eat. (Well, my DH is icky because he likes liver sausage...:sick: KIDDING.)0 -
Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:
Amazeballs is used all the time and probably not in the dictionary... yet. Language is always being enhanced and developed. Please don't be mean when someone is just presenting their defence.
Um ... okay. I will henseforth refrain from pointing out that the "defense" that all meat eaters are inhuman and lack empathy and compassion used words not in the dictionary because it's mean.0 -
Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.
Really? That's interesting. Is that just due to the supplements that vegans and vegetarians often take, or no?
And yes, I know I can Google it, and probably will. I'm reading and responding in between folding laundry, getting ready for a road trip.0 -
No plant based foods contain B12 or cholesterol (which is needed to make testosterone and estrogen). Other than that, it just comes down to personal choice of whether or not you want to be vegan or a meat eater.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree about it being personal choice, but there is vegan nutritional yeast, which is grown on molasses, that has B12. Or there are B12 supplements.
I think Marmite and Vegamite have high levels of B12. Never tried it myself but apparently it's used as a spread.
Where would one get cholesterol supplements that aren't animal based though?0 -
Bump. Sorry, saving my spot so I can go to the gym...the info here is really interesting and thus interfering with the day haha.0
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There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:
Amazeballs is used all the time and probably not in the dictionary... yet. Language is always being enhanced and developed. Please don't be mean when someone is just presenting their defence.
Um ... okay. I will henseforth refrain from pointing out that the "defense" that all meat eaters are inhuman and lack empathy and compassion used words not in the dictionary because it's mean.
Hehe, yeah I know it can be so frustrating biting your tongue when you feel strongly against what someone else has said. I just don't want this threat to tumble down into an angry mishmash of insults, sarcasm etc. against eachother.0 -
You need to see a mental health professional.There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
No. I'm having none of that here.0 -
You need to see a mental health professional.There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
That is not helpful.0 -
Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.
Really? That's interesting. Is that just due to the supplements that vegans and vegetarians often take, or no?
And yes, I know I can Google it, and probably will. I'm reading and responding in between folding laundry, getting ready for a road trip.
Like I said, it was SO brief that I didn't really look into it properly (posts are looooooong).0 -
No plant based foods contain B12 or cholesterol (which is needed to make testosterone and estrogen). Other than that, it just comes down to personal choice of whether or not you want to be vegan or a meat eater.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree about it being personal choice, but there is vegan nutritional yeast, which is grown on molasses, that has B12. Or there are B12 supplements.
I think Marmite and Vegamite have high levels of B12. Never tried it myself but apparently it's used as a spread.
Where would one get cholesterol supplements that aren't animal based though?
Hehe, cholesterol supplements. And that's true. Don't we get all of our cholesterol from animals? Or can that be found in plants too?0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:
Amazeballs is used all the time and probably not in the dictionary... yet. Language is always being enhanced and developed. Please don't be mean when someone is just presenting their defence.
Um ... okay. I will henseforth refrain from pointing out that the "defense" that all meat eaters are inhuman and lack empathy and compassion used words not in the dictionary because it's mean.
Hehe, yeah I know it can be so frustrating biting your tongue when you feel strongly against what someone else has said. I just don't want this threat to tumble down into an angry mishmash of insults, sarcasm etc. against eachother.
BTW, what is an amazeball? I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, just never heard that term.0 -
There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.
According to both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com, "carnist" is not a word.
http://www.carnism.com/carnism.htm
Oh well, if someone created an internet site using the word then all the dictionaries must just be wrong, I guess. :huh:
Amazeballs is used all the time and probably not in the dictionary... yet. Language is always being enhanced and developed. Please don't be mean when someone is just presenting their defence.
Um ... okay. I will henseforth refrain from pointing out that the "defense" that all meat eaters are inhuman and lack empathy and compassion used words not in the dictionary because it's mean.
Hehe, yeah I know it can be so frustrating biting your tongue when you feel strongly against what someone else has said. I just don't want this threat to tumble down into an angry mishmash of insults, sarcasm etc. against eachother.
BTW, what is an amazeball? I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, just never heard that term.
Hahaha! I don't even know! Some ridiculous slang again that is slowly making it's way around the English-speaking people. My mum and dad have even started saying 'STFU' *facepalm*0 -
Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.
Really? That's interesting. Is that just due to the supplements that vegans and vegetarians often take, or no?
And yes, I know I can Google it, and probably will. I'm reading and responding in between folding laundry, getting ready for a road trip.
Like I said, it was SO brief that I didn't really look into it properly (posts are looooooong).
B12 deficiency can happen because of the bodies inability to digest B12. It is an actual, physical inability to digest B12. It could happen to anyone.
From what I understand it is a matter of numbers. More people eat meat, so more meat-eaters have B12 deficiencies. Does that make sense?0 -
Hehe, cholesterol supplements. And that's true. Don't we get all of our cholesterol from animals? Or can that be found in plants too?
We get it all from animals, because humans are animals. Dietary cholesterol is usually unnecessary. Uunless you have liver problems your body will make all it needs.0 -
I get a B12 shot in my *kitten* every 3 months to keep my levels up. I am not a vegan but I am a pescatarian (eating eggs, dairy and fish). I was 10 years old when I made that life changing decision. I also get iron infusions because I cannot absorb iron. I have a live and let live philosophy. There are plenty of people that eat meat and people not eating meat that are completely unhealthy. It is not my job to police everyone. Where I have a problem, is when people make choices like being a vegan for their children. My kids eat meat because that is not my decision to make for them. If they want to follow in my footsteps in the future, they can do that, but it is not my place to control them. I feed them healthy well balanced meals. I agree with the comment that food lifestyle is a personal choice like reliegion. Similarly I do not believe people the religious scientists have the right to dictate whether their child receives a life saving blood donation. Kids are little people too and should be allowed to make their own choices.0
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Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.
Really? That's interesting. Is that just due to the supplements that vegans and vegetarians often take, or no?
And yes, I know I can Google it, and probably will. I'm reading and responding in between folding laundry, getting ready for a road trip.
Like I said, it was SO brief that I didn't really look into it properly (posts are looooooong).
B12 deficiency can happen because of the bodies inability to digest B12. It is an actual, physical inability to digest B12. It could happen to anyone.
From what I understand it is a matter of numbers. More people eat meat, so more meat-eaters have B12 deficiencies. Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does. So rather than percentages, it's based on actual numbers? Which is not the right way to look at that kind of data. 0 -
Welcome! It's something I researched before going vegan, so glad I could help!
I did very very briefly see some stuff about how meat-eaters are more prone to B12 deficiency than vegans/vegetarians.
Really? That's interesting. Is that just due to the supplements that vegans and vegetarians often take, or no?
And yes, I know I can Google it, and probably will. I'm reading and responding in between folding laundry, getting ready for a road trip.
Like I said, it was SO brief that I didn't really look into it properly (posts are looooooong).
B12 deficiency can happen because of the bodies inability to digest B12. It is an actual, physical inability to digest B12. It could happen to anyone.
From what I understand it is a matter of numbers. More people eat meat, so more meat-eaters have B12 deficiencies. Does that make sense?
Does indeed! I did also think that maybe all these studies between health benefits between vegans and meat-eaters may be based on uneven numbers. Plus the fact that, especially Western cultures, eat so much processed rubbish now that maybe these things are contributing to bad health and not necessarily the meat that we eat?0 -
No plant based foods contain B12 or cholesterol (which is needed to make testosterone and estrogen). Other than that, it just comes down to personal choice of whether or not you want to be vegan or a meat eater.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree about it being personal choice, but there is vegan nutritional yeast, which is grown on molasses, that has B12. Or there are B12 supplements.
I think Marmite and Vegamite have high levels of B12. Never tried it myself but apparently it's used as a spread.
Where would one get cholesterol supplements that aren't animal based though?
Hehe, cholesterol supplements. And that's true. Don't we get all of our cholesterol from animals? Or can that be found in plants too?
I think the rule of thumb is "if it ddin't come from something with a liver, it doesn't have cholesterol"
Not sure if that's an absolute though.0 -
No plant based foods contain B12 or cholesterol (which is needed to make testosterone and estrogen). Other than that, it just comes down to personal choice of whether or not you want to be vegan or a meat eater.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree about it being personal choice, but there is vegan nutritional yeast, which is grown on molasses, that has B12. Or there are B12 supplements.
I think Marmite and Vegamite have high levels of B12. Never tried it myself but apparently it's used as a spread.
Where would one get cholesterol supplements that aren't animal based though?
Hehe, cholesterol supplements. And that's true. Don't we get all of our cholesterol from animals? Or can that be found in plants too?
I think the rule of thumb is "if it ddin't come from something with a liver, it doesn't have cholesterol"
Not sure if that's an absolute though.0 -
FIrst off I'd like to give a huge kudos to the OP who has been able to keep this thread on track with respecfful discussion among participants (except for the onsies and twosies (sorry if those aren't words lol) here and there who choose to be confrontational and defensive) I was fully expecting the thread to be locked by page 5! It's been very informative and I love when topics can be discussed, argued and defended in reasonable ways.
I've been a pescetarian for about 6 years, after doing a project in college on factory farms I decided to experiment with it and it was so easy that 6 years later I never went back to beef and poultry. My personal justification for still eating seafood is I know if it came down to it I could kill a fish, I don't think I could ever look a cow, chicken, pig etc in the face and kill it
If I wouldn't be able to do the killing myself I don't think it's reasonable that I allow someone else to do it for me. But that's just MY logic for me.
I think a problem with seeking out and buying directly from organic/cage free/open range farms is that eventually if a lot of people did this, those small farms wouldn't be able to supply for the demand. We would end up back at square one.
I think from andethical and environmental stand point people should REDUCE their meat consumption but I don't believe eliminating the meat industry is a reasonable goal or solution.
I also don't judge other's diets, but don't mind having discussions about my choices and the benefits I've found.0
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