Meat eating vs. Vegan debate
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the main argument is this: ONLY animal based foods contain vitamin B12. B12 deficiency is one of the leading causes of dementia in elderly adults and is one of the key "brain foods" we consume. you can supplement it, sure, but i'm just sayin'.
Ever heard of things like nutritional yeast?
There's no point in arguing over any of this. I'm vegan, and I can't stand the idea of judging people because of what they eat. To each their own. If I don't give a damn about your meat consumption, you shouldn't give a damn about my kale consumption.
I hadn't heard of nutritional yeast until today!
I'm really glad that i've met a lot of vegans on here today who 'don't give a crap about what others eat'. I obviously was given a bad impression speaking to the ones I met a few days ago! I really didn't want to come away from it and feel like 'all vegans are this' and 'all meat eaters are that'. That is part of the point of this topic
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As for meat eating vs Vegan, studies that compare them directly show no difference in health, death rates, or disease. Same rates of heart disease, same rates of cancer, same life expectancy, etc.0
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Farm animals that are raised for meat are unable to survive on their own. If the entire world suddenly turned vegan, cattle (meat and dairy,) chickens, pigs, would all basically become extinct.
Mmm, not really.
Pigs go feral extremely easily and quickly. They're a huge problem in some states.
Holsteins would have some serious issues, but more primitive breeds of dairy cows and many of the beef cows would do okay if we reserved a range for them. Beef cows that have been accustomed to a management-intensive style of life probably wouldn't.
Sheep, on the other hand, are far too stupid to survive on their own unless it's like an isolated island :P
Poor sheepies!0 -
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I have my steak still bleeding and my salmon smoked, not cooked. Our teeth becoming less effective is a direct result of developing the ability to cook, as is the deterioration of function of our appendix.:laugh:All the proof you need that we are designed to eat meat AS WELL AS plant matter, can be found in the mirror and in your gut. Look in the mirror. Notice your eyes are facing forward - an omnivorous/predatory trait. Open your mouth. Notice you have canines. Canines are designed for ripping flesh. You also have molars and premolars for grinding. In your digestive tract, you'll find specialised enzymes for both meat and plant matter.
I don't see why either side gets so inflamed, but I do get frustrated by people trying to preach veganism to me. Same as I get frustrated by people preaching religion to me, or their political beliefs.
I'd like to see you use your canines to rip open an animal with hide and all. Human's do not "rip flesh" we cook it, but it with a knife and chew it. ....sorry the canine thing just always makes me laugh.
The people I spoke to were saying how our 'canines' resemble those of horses more than of actual carnivores.
^^ This! We have opted for a weaker jaw/teeth for a bigger brain! Take a look at the teeth of other primates, they can rip flesh! We do not have the size of a cecum like a horse has. A horse has a HUGE cecum which helps them digest plant material.0 -
Just clarrifying, Some vegans are feeding babies soy formula. lol
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Are you saying mothers milk is vegan? Some Countries ban the use of soy formulas for infants.
Mother's milk to made for babies, cows milk is intended for baby cows, goats milk is made for baby goats. That's histarical to say that ones child was not raised vegan because the child had breast milk. whew...thanks for the laugh!
It is any woman's choice whether to breast feed her children, or give them some form of formula. That said, a woman breastfeeding her child is perfectly consistent with a vegan philosophy. Human milk is made to nourish baby humans, that's why women produce it. Cow's milk on the other hand, is produced by cows to nourish baby cows, the fact that we re-purpose it to feed humans is what vegans take issue with. Also, at least in developed nations, women do have some choice as to whether they want to breast feed (I realize it's not possible for all women, for lots of reasons), cows however, are not given a choice.0 -
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
yes, but where does this cow get it's food? from acres upon acres of corn and what not that has been cultivated for them rather than to feed humans. Land wouldn't be a problem if we turned the land we are farming to feed livestock to feed humans
The point is the surface area of ground you would need to plant enough food would be so much greater. In a cow, you can store a lot more food (calorie/nutrition density) than the value of where it's 4 hooves are planted than using that same area for veg.0 -
Just to add a little something else to the mix. Ever heard of the blood type diet? There are some blood types better suited for lots of meat, less meat, and no meat. I am A+ the suggested diet for A+ is essentially vegan. On the other hand, a friend of mine tried to go vegetarian and felt terrible, she went to the doc and the doc told her that her blood type should really eat meat.
I'm not totally sure that I 100% buy into the blood type diet but I can say that I feel way better as a veg head than I did eating meat and I have met other people who have not had the same experience.0 -
My husband was raised vegan and now eats meat, as do his brothers. My inlaws still don't eat meat but they have started eating some dairy so now I guess they are classified as vegetarians. They eat yogurt, cheese and ice cream that's real milk but don't drink cows milk. I grew up eating meat and still do lol.0
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Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
yes, but where does this cow get it's food? from acres upon acres of corn and what not that has been cultivated for them rather than to feed humans. Land wouldn't be a problem if we turned the land we are farming to feed livestock to feed humans
Maybe! But then all the animals would still need to eat. Plus, the human population just keeps rising incredibly fast... I wonder if it would decrease if we didn't farm animals?0 -
Studies suck for the most part
Narrowminded preachy opinions suck too
Diversity and acceptance is good
Eat what properly nourishes you and allows you to function properly no matter what it is.
Meat verses no meat is the least of our worries
I dont eat meat0 -
It would be a shame if the topic can't be discussed rationally without getting ugly. It's really a personal choice. I've been trying to go with eating clean, which has worked well for me (till I got off track while on vacation about a month ago). I was purchasing my meats from a local farm where I knew the conditions for the animals. But I was getting a lot of beef, which I don't eat much. I decided that it is probably healthier for me to focus on food that the earth offers such as fruits, veggies, and whole grains, so I'm going to try that. I don't plan on being religious about it, but I do want to get most of my food intake from those items as well as dairy products. I will be studying up so I can be sure that I get the vitamins and nutrients that I need though.
I am glad that you are going to look into everything so you get all the proper vitamins and nutrients. While this does not happen to most people, my sister played with being a vegetarian and vegan she was getting sick all the time. I say played with because what she would and would not eat changed all the time. Sometimes she would eat birds (chicken and turkey) sometimes they were off the menu including dairy products and eggs. While I admit that I know very little about being a vegetarian or vegan, or the different kinds of each, I do know it is important to get all your vitamins and nutrients. She chose this lifestyle because she did not like the taste of four legged creatures. She never pushed her view on us and frequently went fishing and hunting with the family. While she has started to eat a little red meat she still will not eat anything ground (testure thing more than anything) and pork. She went so long without any pork in her diet that when she has some she gets sick. I wish you luck in your new eating habits!0 -
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I have my steak still bleeding and my salmon smoked, not cooked. Our teeth becoming less effective is a direct result of developing the ability to cook, as is the deterioration of function of our appendix.:laugh:All the proof you need that we are designed to eat meat AS WELL AS plant matter, can be found in the mirror and in your gut. Look in the mirror. Notice your eyes are facing forward - an omnivorous/predatory trait. Open your mouth. Notice you have canines. Canines are designed for ripping flesh. You also have molars and premolars for grinding. In your digestive tract, you'll find specialised enzymes for both meat and plant matter.
I don't see why either side gets so inflamed, but I do get frustrated by people trying to preach veganism to me. Same as I get frustrated by people preaching religion to me, or their political beliefs.
I'd like to see you use your canines to rip open an animal with hide and all. Human's do not "rip flesh" we cook it, but it with a knife and chew it. ....sorry the canine thing just always makes me laugh.
The people I spoke to were saying how our 'canines' resemble those of horses more than of actual carnivores.
Ya cooking meat appropriately really sucks cause then food poisoning can't effectively decrease the population.
Humans have been cooking meat for thousands of years.0 -
Just to add a little something else to the mix. Ever heard of the blood type diet? There are some blood types better suited for lots of meat, less meat, and no meat. I am A+ the suggested diet for A+ is essentially vegan. On the other hand, a friend of mine tried to go vegetarian and felt terrible, she went to the doc and the doc told her that her blood type should really eat meat.
I'm not totally sure that I 100% buy into the blood type diet but I can say that I feel way better as a veg head than I did eating meat and I have met other people who have not had the same experience.
I'm A+. I did not do well on a vegan diet.0 -
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
How much land in the US is "not suitable to cultivate " but is suitable to raise and animal on exactly? I understand the thinking but it's incorrect. The article I posted earlier is a good place to start for this kind of research.0 -
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I have my steak still bleeding and my salmon smoked, not cooked. Our teeth becoming less effective is a direct result of developing the ability to cook, as is the deterioration of function of our appendix.:laugh:All the proof you need that we are designed to eat meat AS WELL AS plant matter, can be found in the mirror and in your gut. Look in the mirror. Notice your eyes are facing forward - an omnivorous/predatory trait. Open your mouth. Notice you have canines. Canines are designed for ripping flesh. You also have molars and premolars for grinding. In your digestive tract, you'll find specialised enzymes for both meat and plant matter.
I don't see why either side gets so inflamed, but I do get frustrated by people trying to preach veganism to me. Same as I get frustrated by people preaching religion to me, or their political beliefs.
I'd like to see you use your canines to rip open an animal with hide and all. Human's do not "rip flesh" we cook it, but it with a knife and chew it. ....sorry the canine thing just always makes me laugh.
The people I spoke to were saying how our 'canines' resemble those of horses more than of actual carnivores.
^^ This! We have opted for a weaker jaw/teeth for a bigger brain! Take a look at the teeth of other primates, they can rip flesh! We do not have the size of a cecum like a horse has. A horse has a HUGE cecum which helps them digest plant material.
Human faces in general are just extremely weak compared to what they used to be when we possibly did tear flesh! Sounds like we're physically devolving.0 -
Just clarrifying, Some vegans are feeding babies soy formula. lol
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Are you saying mothers milk is vegan? Some Countries ban the use of soy formulas for infants.
Mother's milk to made for babies, cows milk is intended for baby cows, goats milk is made for baby goats. That's histarical to say that ones child was not raised vegan because the child had breast milk. whew...thanks for the laugh!
yes, so are most omnivores. I have never heard any say they are feeding their child soy b/c breast milk isn't vegan
"Most" omnivores are not using soy formula for their babies.0 -
Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.
It would take alot of space if you wanted EVERYONE to go on a vegan diet, plus you would have to find land suitable to cultivate. That is one of the great things with an animal like a cow, it can be placed on land that wouldn't be suitable to cultivate and so then you're able to use a space that wasn't useable as a food resource.
yes, but where does this cow get it's food? from acres upon acres of corn and what not that has been cultivated for them rather than to feed humans. Land wouldn't be a problem if we turned the land we are farming to feed livestock to feed humans
The point is the surface area of ground you would need to plant enough food would be so much greater. In a cow, you can store a lot more food (calorie/nutrition density) than the value of where it's 4 hooves are planted than using that same area for veg.
Again, exactly what i wonder about. Think about the 5% population on a vegan diet now compared to adding another 95% on top of that. Living room is already scarce, let alone farmland.0 -
Yes, but setting aside lands just for cows would kind of go eliminate the advantage of having more room by not eating cows, wouldn't it? Besides, who would give up their land, so that cows would have a place to live? Ranchers? Doubt it, they'd convert their land to something that they could profit from. Farmers, who essentially wiped out the natural habitats of cattle and buffalo to build their farms a couple hundred years ago? Nope, won't happen there, either, as that completely kills the concept. Cows wouldn't have anywhere to go. Most breeds of chicken have been cross bred for meat yield, and would absolutely not survive, as most of them can barely even walk, and certainly can't fly any more. Some pigs would be abler to survive, again, some breeds wouldn't. No matter how you look at it, it would still mean the assured death of billions of animals, and entire species.Farm animals that are raised for meat are unable to survive on their own. If the entire world suddenly turned vegan, cattle (meat and dairy,) chickens, pigs, would all basically become extinct.
Mmm, not really.
Pigs go feral extremely easily and quickly. They're a huge problem in some states.
Holsteins would have some serious issues, but more primitive breeds of dairy cows and many of the beef cows would do okay if we reserved a range for them. Beef cows that have been accustomed to a management-intensive style of life probably wouldn't.
Sheep, on the other hand, are far too stupid to survive on their own unless it's like an isolated island :P0 -
Just to add a little something else to the mix. Ever heard of the blood type diet? There are some blood types better suited for lots of meat, less meat, and no meat. I am A+ the suggested diet for A+ is essentially vegan. On the other hand, a friend of mine tried to go vegetarian and felt terrible, she went to the doc and the doc told her that her blood type should really eat meat.
I'm not totally sure that I 100% buy into the blood type diet but I can say that I feel way better as a veg head than I did eating meat and I have met other people who have not had the same experience.
Very very good point. I heard about the blood type diet. Is this to do with the oxidiser test at all? But yeah, obviously different people can handle different foods. Like intolerances, allergies etc contribute to what you can eat. So it must be safe to say that some CAN eat meat whereas others can't. And some can benefit greatly from it where others do not get this benefit.0 -
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I have my steak still bleeding and my salmon smoked, not cooked. Our teeth becoming less effective is a direct result of developing the ability to cook, as is the deterioration of function of our appendix.:laugh:All the proof you need that we are designed to eat meat AS WELL AS plant matter, can be found in the mirror and in your gut. Look in the mirror. Notice your eyes are facing forward - an omnivorous/predatory trait. Open your mouth. Notice you have canines. Canines are designed for ripping flesh. You also have molars and premolars for grinding. In your digestive tract, you'll find specialised enzymes for both meat and plant matter.
I don't see why either side gets so inflamed, but I do get frustrated by people trying to preach veganism to me. Same as I get frustrated by people preaching religion to me, or their political beliefs.
I'd like to see you use your canines to rip open an animal with hide and all. Human's do not "rip flesh" we cook it, but it with a knife and chew it. ....sorry the canine thing just always makes me laugh.
The people I spoke to were saying how our 'canines' resemble those of horses more than of actual carnivores.
^^ This! We have opted for a weaker jaw/teeth for a bigger brain! Take a look at the teeth of other primates, they can rip flesh! We do not have the size of a cecum like a horse has. A horse has a HUGE cecum which helps them digest plant material.
Human faces in general are just extremely weak compared to what they used to be when we possibly did tear flesh! Sounds like we're physically devolving.
Indeed. Neanderthals had much stronger jawlines and smaller craniums. However, it does seem people are getting taller overall, as years go by. At least it does to me, but maybe that's because I'm short.0
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