Meat eating vs. Vegan debate
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Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.
If you are wanting to prove a case of morals that way, here is some news for you: Hitler was a vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism
Hitler was also a dejected art student...what is your point? Should we be worried about art students?
Please don't comapre me to Hitler because of what I eat. My in-laws are Jewish and I am kind of offended.
Are you going to address the post he replied to?Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization/b].
Or are you agreeing with that statement?
People need understand the context of people's replies before flying off the handle.
I didn't fly off the handle. I get the context and it was still a little offensive.
If you want me to address the above comment I disagree with the poster and as a person with a MA in Forensic Counseling I'd like to think I am knowlegeable. We don't always have detailed information about all the actions of serial killers prior to thier first discovered kill. Happy? Maybe someone who was offened by it should have said so... but I can't speak for everyone only myself and the comment didn't apply to me.0 -
Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.
If you are wanting to prove a case of morals that way, here is some news for you: Hitler was a vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism
Hitler was also a dejected art student...what is your point? Should we be worried about art students?
Please don't comapre me to Hitler because of what I eat. My in-laws are Jewish and I am kind of offended.
Are you going to address the post he replied to?Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization/b].
Or are you agreeing with that statement?
People need understand the context of people's replies before flying off the handle.
I didn't fly off the handle. I get the context and it was still a little offensive.
If you want me to address the above comment I disagree with the poster and as a person with a MA in Forensic Counseling I'd like to think I am knowlegeable. We don't always have detailed information about all the actions of serial killers prior to thier first discovered kill. Happy? Maybe someone who was offened by it should have said so... but I can't speak for everyone only myself and the comment didn't apply to me.
Point of original commenter = all serial killers are meat eaters and hunters! That's why eating meat is bad!
Point of counter pointer = some of history's worst serial killers didn't eat meat.
Point of you = took the counter pointer's comments out of context and came to some unusual conclusions. The counter pointer was NOT trying to say vegetarians or art students are bad beause they don't eat mean or are artists.0 -
Ok well have fun arguing with yourself.0
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Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.
If you are wanting to prove a case of morals that way, here is some news for you: Hitler was a vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism
Hitler was also a dejected art student...what is your point? Should we be worried about art students?
Please don't comapre me to Hitler because of what I eat. My in-laws are Jewish and I am kind of offended.
It was a very drastic, and yes offensive statement to make. This person was TRYING to say that just because someone is a vegetarian/vegan, doesn't make them a better person than someone who eats meat.
I am going a bit out on a limb here on this issue of moral superiority to say some behaviors are more laudatory than others. Some examples: The volunteer fireman who risks his life to save people from disaster: Way better than me in assuming personal risk to help others and showing amazing civic responsibility. The teacher who devotes extra time after her school to struggling students: way better than me in caring for those who struggle acquiring new knowledge. The person who sits with a hospice patient and listens to their hard realities: way better than me in suspending her fear of death to help another person. Are these people 'better' than me? I think in those discrete ways they are.0 -
Ok well have fun arguing with yourself.
Do you work in Forensic Counseling? I'm most interested in the counseling / forensic side of Psychology that i'm studying
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Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.
If you are wanting to prove a case of morals that way, here is some news for you: Hitler was a vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism
Hitler was also a dejected art student...what is your point? Should we be worried about art students?
Please don't comapre me to Hitler because of what I eat. My in-laws are Jewish and I am kind of offended.
It was a very drastic, and yes offensive statement to make. This person was TRYING to say that just because someone is a vegetarian/vegan, doesn't make them a better person than someone who eats meat.
I am going a bit out on a limb here on this issue of moral superiority to say some behaviors are more laudatory than others. Some examples: The volunteer fireman who risks his life to save people from disaster: Way better than me in assuming personal risk to help others and showing amazing civic responsibility. The teacher who devotes extra time after her school to struggling students: way better than me in caring for those who struggle acquiring new knowledge. The person who sits with a hospice patient and listens to their hard realities: way better than me in suspending her fear of death to help another person. Are these people 'better' than me? I think in those discrete ways they are.
I think this makes a good point. Morals are very dependent on the individual.0 -
The only LOGICAL conclusion to hunting is dinner.
I often wondered what people like you would think and do if the earth were actually invaded by aliens who hunted and ate humans. Would your arguments be the same? If not why would they be different. Explain why us hunting animals is good but creatures who are more powerful than us eating us is bad. I'd really like to hear this.
Why don't we spin this another way, then. The same scenario - what would YOU do if something was hostile and trying to eat you? I feel that it is the circle of life. One thing is eaten by another thing, is eaten by bigger thing... Deer don't want to be eaten by us as we don't want to be eaten by sharks. But that's how a food chain goes.
So you would accept it? You wouldn't see ANYTHING unjust about it or unfair. You would just shrug your shoulders while you watched your family get killed and eaten? Assuming you could talk to them you wouldn't try to convince them that what they were doing was immoral?
Of course not. Where did I say that i'd stand by and watch? And i'm sure, if this did happen, we'd react the same as any other animal and run as far and as fast as possible due to survival instinct. I find it amusing to imagine myself prodding an alien in the shoulder whilst it eats my family, in an attempt to get it's attention long enough for me to explain what it was doing was immoral.
Ok this chain is ridiculous. We are talking about naturally existing species that fit in to the food chain. And you are trying to make a comparision with a foreign species just sublpanted into our world??? Humans didn't pop up from out of no where and take over. We evolved (great now I probably opened up THAT debate). A better question would be what if some other species evolved and passed us on the food chain, how would we feel about being their meat. Aliens are off the table if you want to make a logical point.0 -
Ok well have fun arguing with yourself.
Do you work in Forensic Counseling? I'm most interested in the counseling / forensic side of Psychology that i'm studying
Yes. Until the end of June anyway (going to law school in August). I am working with a doctor who is testing part of the prison population so, I do interviews and administer tests like personality tests, "trigger" tests, drug use questionaires, etc...
ETA: If you have questions feel free to msg me.0 -
This is why we have cutting teeth in our mouths (to rip appart meat) and a pancreas (producing enzymes to break down raw meat). Also, our eyes point forward instead of to the side which classifies us as predators rather than prey.... We also have molars and such for grinding and mashing vegatation.
Soooooooo...... If you really want to get technical we are Omnivores. If one group wants to eat more/all of a particular side of the spectrum more power to them. For me... I like to keep things balanced.0 -
The only LOGICAL conclusion to hunting is dinner.
I often wondered what people like you would think and do if the earth were actually invaded by aliens who hunted and ate humans. Would your arguments be the same? If not why would they be different. Explain why us hunting animals is good but creatures who are more powerful than us eating us is bad. I'd really like to hear this.
Why don't we spin this another way, then. The same scenario - what would YOU do if something was hostile and trying to eat you? I feel that it is the circle of life. One thing is eaten by another thing, is eaten by bigger thing... Deer don't want to be eaten by us as we don't want to be eaten by sharks. But that's how a food chain goes.
So you would accept it? You wouldn't see ANYTHING unjust about it or unfair. You would just shrug your shoulders while you watched your family get killed and eaten? Assuming you could talk to them you wouldn't try to convince them that what they were doing was immoral?
Of course not. Where did I say that i'd stand by and watch? And i'm sure, if this did happen, we'd react the same as any other animal and run as far and as fast as possible due to survival instinct. I find it amusing to imagine myself prodding an alien in the shoulder whilst it eats my family, in an attempt to get it's attention long enough for me to explain what it was doing was immoral.
Ok this chain is ridiculous. We are talking about naturally existing species that fit in to the food chain. And you are trying to make a comparision with a foreign species just sublpanted into our world??? Humans didn't pop up from out of no where and take over. We evolved (great now I probably opened up THAT debate). A better question would be what if some other species evolved and passed us on the food chain, how would we feel about being their meat. Aliens are off the table if you want to make a logical point.
Absolutely regardless of what it was that was attacking humans, the second in this chain of quotes seems to insist that we can verbally convince another species that it's wrong to eat us. Quite simply, if another species evolved to be bigger, smarter, stronger and more deadly than humans then we'd fight to survive and either dwindle greatly in population or go extinct.0 -
I tried this logic earlier. Don't do it man. These things are clearly random mutations because, in our history, we were vegetarian and there is no such thing as an omnivore.This is why we have cutting teeth in our mouths (to rip appart meat) and a pancreas (producing enzymes to break down raw meat). Also, our eyes point forward instead of to the side which classifies us as predators rather than prey.... We also have molars and such for grinding and mashing vegatation.
Soooooooo...... If you really want to get technical we are Omnivores. If one group wants to eat more/all of a particular side of the spectrum more power to them. For me... I like to keep things balanced.
*cough*0 -
Absolutely regardless of what it was that was attacking humans, the second in this chain of quotes seems to insist that we can verbally convince another species that it's wrong to eat us. Quite simply, if another species evolved to be bigger, smarter, stronger and more deadly than humans then we'd fight to survive and either dwindle greatly in population or go extinct.
Not to mention that they wouldn't understand a word we said. Perhaps someone has been taking Star Trek a little too literally.0 -
I hear human is pretty gamey...we'd be safe eventually when tastier things were discovered. Did they eat humans on Star Trek????Absolutely regardless of what it was that was attacking humans, the second in this chain of quotes seems to insist that we can verbally convince another species that it's wrong to eat us. Quite simply, if another species evolved to be bigger, smarter, stronger and more deadly than humans then we'd fight to survive and either dwindle greatly in population or go extinct.
Not to mention that they wouldn't understand a word we said. Perhaps someone has been taking Star Trek a little too literally.0 -
I tried this logic earlier. Don't do it man. These things are clearly random mutations because, in our history, we were vegetarian and there is no such thing as an omnivore.This is why we have cutting teeth in our mouths (to rip appart meat) and a pancreas (producing enzymes to break down raw meat). Also, our eyes point forward instead of to the side which classifies us as predators rather than prey.... We also have molars and such for grinding and mashing vegatation.
Soooooooo...... If you really want to get technical we are Omnivores. If one group wants to eat more/all of a particular side of the spectrum more power to them. For me... I like to keep things balanced.
*cough*
Even though the literal meaning of 'omnivore' is 'everything eater'. Apparently the fact that humans do, can, and have for thousands of years eaten meat without dying shortly after isn't evidence enough to suggest that we are 'omnivorous'0 -
lol, I remember an episode of The Twilight Zone where the alien intruders had a book called "To Serve Man" which turned out to be a cookbook11
I hear human is pretty gamey...we'd be safe eventually when tastier things were discovered. Did they eat humans on Star Trek????Absolutely regardless of what it was that was attacking humans, the second in this chain of quotes seems to insist that we can verbally convince another species that it's wrong to eat us. Quite simply, if another species evolved to be bigger, smarter, stronger and more deadly than humans then we'd fight to survive and either dwindle greatly in population or go extinct.
Not to mention that they wouldn't understand a word we said. Perhaps someone has been taking Star Trek a little too literally.0 -
I feel the same way about this as I do about religion. Do what you like, I will do my best to respect your views unless you're doing something that I am morally opposed to. I will try to remember your stance and bear that in mind, but cut me some slack if I forget.
If you try to force your way of life on me or ride me too much for not remembering some detail about how you want to live, well then I'll be the pr*ck that actively tries to piss you off and mocks you in public.
Also please pass the bacon.
This made me laugh. I feel the same way, except without the pissing people off part, I am not very good at that. My sister recently chose to stop eating meat and is doing fine. I, however, like my meat. My favorite, probably really unhealthy, is the Texas Roadhouse 6oz sirloin. I am not going to force others to join my enjoyment of meat and I am not going to tell my sister that she is dumb (which I don't believe). I believe that people need to do what works and is best for them and their health and not judge others for it. I will continue to portion control my meat and when my sister comes over I will make sure to have an acceptable option for her because I love and support her.
Also, please pass the bacon,
LOLOLOL-loved this!0 -
I hear human is pretty gamey...we'd be safe eventually when tastier things were discovered. Did they eat humans on Star Trek????Absolutely regardless of what it was that was attacking humans, the second in this chain of quotes seems to insist that we can verbally convince another species that it's wrong to eat us. Quite simply, if another species evolved to be bigger, smarter, stronger and more deadly than humans then we'd fight to survive and either dwindle greatly in population or go extinct.
Not to mention that they wouldn't understand a word we said. Perhaps someone has been taking Star Trek a little too literally.
Depending on what country they are from the fat content of humans can be pretty high too. But I was referring to the universal translator and being able to verbally convince aliens not to eat us.0 -
This is why we have cutting teeth in our mouths (to rip appart meat) and a pancreas (producing enzymes to break down raw meat). Also, our eyes point forward instead of to the side which classifies us as predators rather than prey.... We also have molars and such for grinding and mashing vegatation.
Soooooooo...... If you really want to get technical we are Omnivores. If one group wants to eat more/all of a particular side of the spectrum more power to them. For me... I like to keep things balanced.
"Although we think we are one, and we act as if we are one, human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings who are natural herbivores." - William C. Roberts, M.D., editor, American Journal of Cardiology
Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores?
Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.0 -
This is why we have cutting teeth in our mouths (to rip appart meat) and a pancreas (producing enzymes to break down raw meat). Also, our eyes point forward instead of to the side which classifies us as predators rather than prey.... We also have molars and such for grinding and mashing vegatation.
Soooooooo...... If you really want to get technical we are Omnivores. If one group wants to eat more/all of a particular side of the spectrum more power to them. For me... I like to keep things balanced.
"Although we think we are one, and we act as if we are one, human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings who are natural herbivores." - William C. Roberts, M.D., editor, American Journal of Cardiology
Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores?
Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.
Heehee, picturing a brontosaurus with a flexistraw0 -
Not self righteous, just a troll. He only posts in these kinds of threads just to bash and troll as much as he possibly can. Prety sad and pathetic, honestly. Best to just ignore him.
again you are equating people who hunt = serial killers. While there may have been some people who are serial killers that liked to hunt, just because one HUNTS does not make them a serial killer with no feelings.
Serial killers are people who have no sense of right or wrong, who do not care if they are hurting others. Hunters, people who respect the sport and respect animals do not go out to make animals suffer, to torture them and scare them.
Stop perpetuating the misconceptions that people who hunt are these barbaric soulless people.
Oh, I see. I misunderstood. Hunters are actually sensitive men and women who care about causing pain to others. Right! If you believe that, I've got some Enron stock to sell you.
Pretty sure that A. You have never been hunting and B. Don't really know anyone that is a hunter.
Seeing as I have gone hunting, and I know what kind of person I am on the inside and my thoughts and feeling towards others, and the fact that I am a sensitive person, and *gasp* am not a serial killer- I can just sit here and say you are full of *kitten* and can't accept the fact that not everyone in the world plays into the stereotype you have made into your head.
I also know that arguing with you any further about this is about as constructive as me bashing my head into a brick wall.
I know plenty of hunters. They are weak insecure individuals who usually are in the lowest class of society. (Yeah, I know, politicians all hunt, but they only do that to get votes.) They have the least education, the lowest paid jobs, and generally are embarassed to be in the same company with middle and upper class people, who they don't understand. Yeah, there are excpetions, but 90% fall into that mold. And yes, I really did grow up in a family of hunters, but as much as my father wanted me to hunt, even as a little boy, I refused. I had no desire to kill, and I actually liked animals. And yes, practically all the men in my family were hunters and boozers. I went to our local rod and gun club with my father (I didn't mind target shooting) and since it was a private club, they could serve liquor on Sunday. That was the big attraction. That and the fact that people who were afraiid to be among educated people could drink and have fun with their peers.
Wow. Could you possibly be any more self righteous?
Yup, when people start talking about things that interest me, I come out. I guess a non-troll in your opinion, is someone who just shoots off his mouth with an opinion, and nothing to back it up.0
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