Guys can never be right can they??

Starrynights1107

Chris. I'm torn on that last one about tecognizing she disnt mean it that way. The part of me that wants acceptance here wants to agree with you. The part of me that wonders if I just overreact because I have seen horrible things wants to agree with you. But part of me feels that if no one ever says anything, than the status quo will never change. No, I don't want to hurt OPs feelings. I just want to point out that these stereotypes are outta date, harmful, and to some extent wrong. I would do the same for racism, homophobia, etc. is it my agenda? Yes- as is getting fit, making friends, having fun. I don't mean to make the comvo about me as much as I just want to drop a red flag, have people recognize it, then have "game on" again back to the subject. Those little red flags are all I got and I will use them until one year of my life passes without one of my friends being raled, beaten, or telling me they were sexually abused as children. That's kinda how it is. I gotta put up a fight. It comes from a place of love.

But the thing is...they're only out of date and harmful..from the place you come from (which I totally respect!!). From where I come from, they are loving, humorous, affectionate pokes at who we are (and trust me...these stereotypes aren't far wrong when you take a large cross section of the populace into account). It's not right to be able to take that from someone...that...bonding in a way, because of your (plural) past. And again don't misunderstand...I feel for your (specific) past, and I feel for those that go through the same things. My sons mother is borderline personality disorder. This was caused by her father passing away at age 2, her mother trying to suffocate her to death, her mother allowing her brother to rape her repeatedly without consequence, in fact...denying it happened despite the evidence...so many things. Because of this...she's lost her children. THEY have lost their MOTHER. I HATE the things that you hate...I would give my life...for her to have had a normal childhood, for her to raise our children playing the part she was meant to...even if it meant I were gone.

But this thread...the OP's part in it...my part in it...this is how we interact in a loving, caring way. There is no harm in this. It doesn't perpetuate anything...because we all know...each one of us, that they are simple stereotypes.

Sorry to bring this to such a serious place...but I think it's important for you to know that there's a difference between maliciousness...between hating, and shaming, and holding someone down...and playing on things that we all know are only partially true.

I hope that makes sense, and that you don't feel I'm discounting your position...I'm not.

Oh man, I try never to post on these types of threads - Don't. Get. Sucked. In! I'm laughing at myself, but here goes, anyway.

I think the OP was simply trying to say that she had a realization about taking her partner for granted and wanted to share that insight. Where she went sideways a bit, IMHO, was that she took her personal experience and pushed it out to people in general and took her personal experience to be universally true for couples. Perhaps unknowingly or perhaps she's seen her experience repeated in other relationships around her. So, while I agree with her basic message about appreciating your partner, I did roll my eyes and wrinkle my nose at her stereotypes. 'Cause, I really can't relate to any of the supposed truths she put forth.

The reason I'm even responding, is the exchange I quoted above. I find the whole topic of stereotypes interesting and maddening at the same time.

I propose that people for whom stereotypes feel familiar and comfortable (because they naturally do fit the stereotype) - are inclined to see them as heart-warming or funny or something along these lines.

People who have struggled all their lives because they don't fit stereotypes at all and can't relate to them, find them frustrating, hurtful, ridiculous, and at times, damaging (I put myself in this category).

I think everyone should think about stereotypes and what they perpetuate and why. And, we should all realize that people are individuals with unique experiences - not statistics or stereotypes.

And back to the OP: I get your message about recognizing those things our partners do to make our lives better, I just don't agree/relate with/to your particular examples.

And...I'm out!

Agreed

thinclo

SIGHHHHHHHHHHH

NO, you dont. But YOU were talking about reproduction and got miffed when someone thought she had female reproductive organs. I'm just pointing out why someone might have been confused. God, you are insufferable. I think I need to ignore you now.

You can't even look at this troll people, she's too self absorbed and ignorant. Any comment, she will turn to feed her own argument. I've seen her do it over, and over, and over. It's nauseating.

The thing that amazes me is she even thinks we give a damn about her boyfriend.

Yeah, Ive seen her posts all over the place. I dont think she realises that SHE'S the only one making a big deal out of any of this. It's not like people are going around posting threads saying "Hey, you heard about that girls girlfriend? WEEEIRRD" where her responses would indeed be warranted. No, she purposely goes to threads that have nothing to do with her or her interests and MAKES it about her and her interests

I dont go around to vegetarian recipe threads and shout out "HEY!!! I LIKE MEAT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE MEAT!" and likewise I dont think she should go to a thread praising men in a heterosexual relationship if she indeed is NOT in a heterosexual relationship with a man. It would be different if the thread said something like "only heterosexuals should be in relationships" or "i hate gay people" but no, it of course says nothing like that.
[/quote]

this is so true! its just pathetic really, if this was a post about typical things that happen in same sex relationships i definitely wouldnt barge in and say why are you not catering to me in a heterosexual relationship. When will people understand that everything in the world cannot be applicable to or about them. its a normal part of growing up to learn that U CANT HAVE EVERTHING. attention seeking thats all it is. also , how much personal information does she want to divulge on here? jeez

taunto

I've read this thread from front to back and all i can say is....OMG!

Admittedly the best part of me was when I got proven right in my original reply to this thread. I am so proud of myself that I might give myself a cookie and a doggie treat!

Sorry you're on the wrong board. MFP only caters to man-hating threads. Try askmen.com or something

Here's a gold star for you, too.

i just discovered that i have 14 eggs in my fridge

crisanderson27

I propose that people for whom stereotypes feel familiar and comfortable (because they naturally do fit the stereotype) - are inclined to see them as heart-warming or funny or something along these lines.

People who have struggled all their lives because they don't fit stereotypes at all and can't relate to them, find them frustrating, hurtful, ridiculous, and at times, damaging (I put myself in this category).

I can see where this makes sense to you...but it's kind of inaccurate. I've learned to enjoy PLAYING the part of the stereotypical male. I'm about as far from that as you can get...if you haven't noticed from some of my posts. I've never fit that part well...though I seem to from the outside. This kind of throws your whole theory into a tailspin I think.

Also, often...the people who rail hardest against stereotypes...are the ones who fit them closest. Look at Umeboshi. She's a perfect example of a narrow minded hypocritical minority activist type extremist. Is that a stereotype in todays world...sadly yes. Yet she fights it tooth and nail.

Again...tailspin?

Oddly though...I think you're on to something still...something rang true in your words...but I'm not sure what because the main points are covered in my responses above. Perhaps it's the words 'can't relate'? I know and accept there is at least a kernel of truth for virtually all people who fit within their respective stereotypes...or they would never gain acceptance at all. Maybe the ones who fight it hardest...simply can't accept that kernel of truth for whatever reason.

It would be an interesting place to start researching.

foodfight247

I've read this thread from front to back and all i can say is....OMG!

Admittedly the best part of me was when I got proven right in my original reply to this thread. I am so proud of myself that I might give myself a cookie and a doggie treat!

Sorry you're on the wrong board. MFP only caters to man-hating threads. Try askmen.com or something

Just can't believe how out of hand it got. Thank god I was busy all day yesterday, as I would certainly have jumped on this one with 10 tonnes of force! Whilst I'm a woman, I love to stick up for the male populus too.

I LOVE MEN AND THE THINGS THEY DO FOR US WOMEN. Alot of the time, they're right the MAJORITY of the time - my other half has been anyway. lol!.

I feel like grabbing some random men of the street and conducting an experiment!

MEN, MEN, MEN - you are right and I LOVE THE THINGS YOU DO!

Umeboshi

this is so true! its just pathetic really, if this was a post about typical things that happen in same sex relationships i definitely wouldnt barge in and say why are you not catering to me in a heterosexual relationship. When will people understand that everything in the world cannot be applicable to or about them. its a normal part of growing up to learn that U CANT HAVE EVERTHING. attention seeking thats all it is. also , how much personal information does she want to divulge on here? jeez

Hey, they asked.

crisanderson27

SIGHHHHHHHHHHH

NO, you dont. But YOU were talking about reproduction and got miffed when someone thought she had female reproductive organs. I'm just pointing out why someone might have been confused. God, you are insufferable. I think I need to ignore you now.

You can't even look at this troll people, she's too self absorbed and ignorant. Any comment, she will turn to feed her own argument. I've seen her do it over, and over, and over. It's nauseating.

The thing that amazes me is she even thinks we give a damn about her boyfriend.

Yeah, Ive seen her posts all over the place. I dont think she realises that SHE'S the only one making a big deal out of any of this. It's not like people are going around posting threads saying "Hey, you heard about that girls girlfriend? WEEEIRRD" where her responses would indeed be warranted. No, she purposely goes to threads that have nothing to do with her or her interests and MAKES it about her and her interests

I dont go around to vegetarian recipe threads and shout out "HEY!!! I LIKE MEAT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE MEAT!" and likewise I dont think she should go to a thread praising men in a heterosexual relationship if she indeed is NOT in a heterosexual relationship with a man. It would be different if the thread said something like "only heterosexuals should be in relationships" or "i hate gay people" but no, it of course says nothing like that.

this is so true! its just pathetic really, if this was a post about typical things that happen in same sex relationships i definitely wouldnt barge in and say why are you not catering to me in a heterosexual relationship. When will people understand that everything in the world cannot be applicable to or about them. its a normal part of growing up to learn that U CANT HAVE EVERTHING. attention seeking thats all it is. also , how much personal information does she want to divulge on here? jeez

As much as is necessary to get her the attention she craves.

I mean, doing it here wasn't even enough...she brought it up, then pretended we did it on her status lol.

apparently my girlfriends penis is everybody's business now

Fun stuff.

thinclo

SIGHHHHHHHHHHH

NO, you dont. But YOU were talking about reproduction and got miffed when someone thought she had female reproductive organs. I'm just pointing out why someone might have been confused. God, you are insufferable. I think I need to ignore you now.

You can't even look at this troll people, she's too self absorbed and ignorant. Any comment, she will turn to feed her own argument. I've seen her do it over, and over, and over. It's nauseating.

The thing that amazes me is she even thinks we give a damn about her boyfriend.

Yeah, Ive seen her posts all over the place. I dont think she realises that SHE'S the only one making a big deal out of any of this. It's not like people are going around posting threads saying "Hey, you heard about that girls girlfriend? WEEEIRRD" where her responses would indeed be warranted. No, she purposely goes to threads that have nothing to do with her or her interests and MAKES it about her and her interests

I dont go around to vegetarian recipe threads and shout out "HEY!!! I LIKE MEAT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE MEAT!" and likewise I dont think she should go to a thread praising men in a heterosexual relationship if she indeed is NOT in a heterosexual relationship with a man. It would be different if the thread said something like "only heterosexuals should be in relationships" or "i hate gay people" but no, it of course says nothing like that.

this is so true! its just pathetic really, if this was a post about typical things that happen in same sex relationships i definitely wouldnt barge in and say why are you not catering to me in a heterosexual relationship. When will people understand that everything in the world cannot be applicable to or about them. its a normal part of growing up to learn that U CANT HAVE EVERTHING. attention seeking thats all it is. also , how much personal information does she want to divulge on here? jeez

As much as is necessary to get her the attention she craves.

I mean, doing it here wasn't even enough...she brought it up, then pretended we did it on her status lol.

apparently my girlfriends penis is everybody's business now

Fun stuff.

LOL!

AbbeyRysMom

Great post!!

ETA: Reminder to self, stop posting after only reading the first page of replies. SMH.

AmericanExpat

Ps. For the record, I'd walk through the streets naked screaming "EUREKA!" before I'd dare ask my man to pick up tampons for me!!! He'd do it, I'm sure...but I'd be embarrassed!

And, yes my man puts up with a lot...and he does a lot for me. And I love him mucho.

I find this very bizarre. I don't find it bizarre that some people would feel like this, but I do find it bizarre that a clearly logical, intelligent person would feel this way. I think, once, I might have lived in a world where such feelings were the norm, I might have even felt that way, but I don't remember very well because it was so long ago.

Oh, and I KNOW Umeboshi is not a troll. She is just passionate about what she believes in and has yet to learn to make a graceful exit before she ends up setting back her cause rather than promoting it.

I'd like to know how staying silent will help any cause.

Quite honestly, the more you run your mouth, the more I'm against your cause. The impact you were hoping for?

This is a Fitness website. There are other websites for shoving your beliefs down the throats of others.

I post my opinion when I see something I disagree with. I'm pretty sure that's allowed in a forum.

I generally don't post a lot on these forums but in an effort of wasting my breathe to get you to understand what everyone else is trying to tell you I am. We all have things we are passionate about and I think its great that you have that. Part of being an adult and mature, is knowing when to stop. If there was anyone reading this post who actually agreed with you, at this point they probably just think you are being a huge b****. You have lost sight of trying to fight what you are passionate about (which IMHO was not necessary in this post) and now you are just making yourself look like a child.

That's all.

WelcomeToWonderland

Hey, they asked.

Jeez, dont you have anything better to do?

Laoch_Cailin

Just read this from start to finish and I have no words........except maybe WAOW

jlbay

I propose that people for whom stereotypes feel familiar and comfortable (because they naturally do fit the stereotype) - are inclined to see them as heart-warming or funny or something along these lines.

People who have struggled all their lives because they don't fit stereotypes at all and can't relate to them, find them frustrating, hurtful, ridiculous, and at times, damaging (I put myself in this category).

I can see where this makes sense to you...but it's kind of inaccurate. I've learned to enjoy PLAYING the part of the stereotypical male. I'm about as far from that as you can get...if you haven't noticed from some of my posts. I've never fit that part well...though I seem to from the outside. This kind of throws your whole theory into a tailspin I think.

Also, often...the people who rail hardest against stereotypes...are the ones who fit them closest. Look at Umeboshi. She's a perfect example of a narrow minded hypocritical minority activist type extremist. Is that a stereotype in todays world...sadly yes. Yet she fights it tooth and nail.

Again...tailspin?

Oddly though...I think you're on to something still...something rang true in your words...but I'm not sure what because the main points are covered in my responses above. Perhaps it's the words 'can't relate'? I know and accept there is at least a kernel of truth for virtually all people who fit within their respective stereotypes...or they would never gain acceptance at all. Maybe the ones who fight it hardest...simply can't accept that kernel of truth for whatever reason.

It would be an interesting place to start researching.

Interesting. Actually, I don't see your first point as necessarily negating mine. Rather, I see a different possibility: you are able to see stereotypes for what they are and recognize when the "stereotypical male" doesn't apply to you. You might be a very confident person and are able to see the stereotypes as outside you - and you don't let them hurt you or get to you. There are probably many reasons why you don't take stereotypes personally. I haven't come across your threads before (well, I don't think). I'm not sure why you "play the part" of the stereotype, as you say, but I'm guessing you like to wind people up??

For me, I've seen the damage that stereotypes (taken too literally) can do, so I try not to perpetuate them. Some people don't have the confidence (for so many reasons) to reject a stereotype and not let it hurt them. Then again, it isn't always about self-confidence: sometimes stereotypes are used against people in a very abusive fashion. I don't like that. I think that is why some people get so upset about stereotypes.

I guess I can't agree that one person's inability to debate with civility in a "debate" (if that is your issue - I didn't read the middle of the thread- so I don't know all that umeboshi wrote) means that all people who find stereotypes offensive, and react strongly to them, do so because they actually resemble the stereotype. I don't see the logic in that statement. Some people feel passionately about these things and they react passionately (rightly or wrongly, depending on the situation).

I don't at all disagree that there is some truth to stereotypes (not necessarily that a particular stereotype has a grain of truth for EVERY INDIVIDUAL, though. Stereotypes are based in social constructs, which change over time and in different cultures). If there wasn't some basis in truth - they wouldn't be so pervasive. But, stereotypes are generalizations - and in dealing with human beings, I think it is more respectful to treat them as individuals, not as stereotypes. I also think that stereotypes are pervasive because they often protect the status quo...which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Of course, especially on the interwebs, you have to say to yourself, and I quote something else here, "not me, not mine." Like I said, I appreciated the point the OP was making (even though I DID cringe about some of the stereotypes she put forth). But, I certainly found the OP's opinion good-natured and inoffensive (despite finding some of the things she said to be stereotypes). I only responded about stereotypes because I found this particular debate between you two interesting.

Okay, I really have to go have some breakfast now! One should never get drawn into a chit-chat forum thread with low blood sugar!

Elf_Princess1210

SIGHHHHHHHHHHH

NO, you dont. But YOU were talking about reproduction and got miffed when someone thought she had female reproductive organs. I'm just pointing out why someone might have been confused. God, you are insufferable. I think I need to ignore you now.

You can't even look at this troll people, she's too self absorbed and ignorant. Any comment, she will turn to feed her own argument. I've seen her do it over, and over, and over. It's nauseating.

The thing that amazes me is she even thinks we give a damn about her boyfriend.

Yeah, Ive seen her posts all over the place. I dont think she realises that SHE'S the only one making a big deal out of any of this. It's not like people are going around posting threads saying "Hey, you heard about that girls girlfriend? WEEEIRRD" where her responses would indeed be warranted. No, she purposely goes to threads that have nothing to do with her or her interests and MAKES it about her and her interests

I dont go around to vegetarian recipe threads and shout out "HEY!!! I LIKE MEAT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE MEAT!" and likewise I dont think she should go to a thread praising men in a heterosexual relationship if she indeed is NOT in a heterosexual relationship with a man. It would be different if the thread said something like "only heterosexuals should be in relationships" or "i hate gay people" but no, it of course says nothing like that.
this is so true! its just pathetic really, if this was a post about typical things that happen in same sex relationships i definitely wouldnt barge in and say why are you not catering to me in a heterosexual relationship. When will people understand that everything in the world cannot be applicable to or about them. its a normal part of growing up to learn that U CANT HAVE EVERTHING. attention seeking thats all it is. also , how much personal information does she want to divulge on here? jeez

Umeboshi is no troll. You have had your fun, so quit bashing her! She is a wonderfully kind human being. Knock it off.

BigH80

To the OP, I appreciate your kind sentiment. I understand what you were trying to say completely. I dont now how such a sweet innocent post turned into such a train wreck. Some people just like to troll the forums and knit pick and blow things out of proportion to feel better about themselves. I've been away from mfp for a few months and i hate that it has spread to these forums as well. Once again thank you for the kind words to the OP.

Twilightsunflower

when did my examples turn into stereotypes?? its an example not a hard and fast rule.. and not even the point..no matter what your personal, irrational, self induced, socitey driven, out of the box or in the box crazy, i was saying men.. more importantly my man, should get thanks for putting up with us...mostly i was saying it to him for putting up with me...

but was hoping women as a collective could take a moment and appreciate those men in our lives who do nice things for us for what ever reason.. even if it is so we dont have too..

if i listed everything to apply to everyone then i would still be writing my original post because women span a spectrum greater then any quantifyable standard.. so yes i made it simple to make my point... put in what applys to instead of what applys to someone else and be happy!!

myofibril

you know why I love women?

by women I mean heterosexual women *just to be clear, sorry*

who are solely attracted to heterosexual men *just to be clear, sorry*

who like relationships based on traditional gender roles *just to be clear, sorry*

I am probably part of the patriarchal machinery *just to be clear, sorry*

and misogynistic *just to be clear, sorry*

I thought "Pygmalion" was a good read *just to be clear, sorry*

and I've probably oppressed women without even knowing it *just to be clear, sorry*

and gender has a biological component *just to be clear, sorry*

and I've never purchased a tampon in all my life *just to be clear, sorry*

Sweet, now I have got all the apologies and disclaimers out of the way I can tell some of the beautiful women of MFP why I adore them so much. Well, I would do if I wasn't so knackered from all the apologies and disclaimers. May be another time. le sigh.

Sorry.

jessewessy1990

you know why I love women?

by women I mean heterosexual women *just to be clear, sorry*

who are solely attracted to heterosexual men *just to be clear, sorry*

who like relationships based on traditional gender roles *just to be clear, sorry*

I am probably part of the patriarchal machinery *just to be clear, sorry*

and misogynistic *just to be clear, sorry*

I thought "Pygmalion" was a good read *just to be clear, sorry*

and I've probably oppressed women without even knowing it *just to be clear, sorry*

and gender has a biological component *just to be clear, sorry*

and I've never purchased a tampon in all my life *just to be clear, sorry*

Sweet, now I have got all the apologies and disclaimers out of the way I can tell some of the beautiful women of MFP why I adore them so much. Well, I would do if I wasn't so knackered from all the apologies and disclaimers. May be another time. le sigh.

Sorry.

catcrazy

My head is spinning at this thread and I really do not know where to start. I did try!

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