Guys can never be right can they??

snipermedic

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

crisanderson27

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Seriously right?

snipermedic

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Seriously right?

I think we could sell this stuff...

crisanderson27

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Seriously right?

I think we could sell this stuff...

Or at least admission...?

Twilightsunflower

Epi all i can do is make a broad strokes with my words i cant nit pick everything to include everyone... you assumed that when i posted my topic that i follow the norms passed down and out dated..
but in all fairness you know as much about me as i do about you which is next to nothing.. you clicked on my topic which doesnt have my life or background in it and claimed it was in some way oppresive and/or offencive because not every word applyed to your life.
but it applyed to mine...and it is no less vaild and worthy to be shared because it is different then yours... i would never do that to anyone because i think love and kindness is undervalued in todays society and should be lifted up not torn down because it is different.. to do that shows how little you know about accepting others

i am not hurt by your words i will not lose sleep or shead a tear but i do pitty you and those who think they have grown and come so far as a human that they dont see they are more judgemental then those they judge

EpiGaiaRepens

Chris,

Fair enough. I actually was not offended about the things she said about men. I was offended by the things she said about how women treat men.

I certainly think that men who are put into the kinds of situations she mentioned are in a pickle...like the "do I look fat" pickle. And I do get why it's unpleasant for a man to buy tampons. And I think guys who maneuver those things well and out of love are awesome. I just didn't like the idea that this is how girls are. I don't use PMS as an excuse to be emotionally abusive...it's not fun having PMS but it's not a free pass to be bat-**** crazy...

Do you get me now?

And thanks my dog is happy...he's snoring right now!

152dbs

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

thats how....and yes i am religious.

epi...i think she was talking about how needy most women are. my wife is def 1 of them.

WelcomeToWonderland

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Estrogen =]

JulieH3art

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Hey Umeboshi,

I think the people you'll want to talk to are geneticists. I'm not sure who exactly these biologists are that you are referring to. I mean no disrespect to you or your girlfriend, because I fully support that if she feels that she is a woman, then she is. And she can do all the things you listed.. surgery, hormone therapy, legal sex change.. to make others think the same.

But she cannot change her genotype. Your DNA is fixed, and therefore you CAN be categorized. There are different variations of our sexual genetics, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7965425
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22246/

It's incredibly interesting, I think.

I never said genotype could be changed.
But I did point out that genotype isn't the sole thing that decides 'male' or 'female' "biologically", and that it doesn't count in social situations.
And she has XX chromosomes, so take of that what you will.

Does she have the XX SRY translocation mutation?

Or does she have more than just those two X's?

If she has the XX genotype but not a vagina and (assuming) she has a penis then there must be more to the story...?

Oishii

Ps. For the record, I'd walk through the streets naked screaming "EUREKA!" before I'd dare ask my man to pick up tampons for me!!! He'd do it, I'm sure...but I'd be embarrassed!

And, yes my man puts up with a lot...and he does a lot for me. And I love him mucho.

I find this very bizarre. I don't find it bizarre that some people would feel like this, but I do find it bizarre that a clearly logical, intelligent person would feel this way. I think, once, I might have lived in a world where such feelings were the norm, I might have even felt that way, but I don't remember very well because it was so long ago.

Oh, and I KNOW Umeboshi is not a troll. She is just passionate about what she believes in and has yet to learn to make a graceful exit before she ends up setting back her cause rather than promoting it.

EvilPink

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Estrogen =]

Maybe...or maybe not. Depends on the phenotype, genotype, endocrine type or some other type. Assuming estrogen is at play would be to assume a gender role. That would be offensive and uninclusive of all....please rephrase your answer. :laugh:

Umeboshi

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Hey Umeboshi,

I think the people you'll want to talk to are geneticists. I'm not sure who exactly these biologists are that you are referring to. I mean no disrespect to you or your girlfriend, because I fully support that if she feels that she is a woman, then she is. And she can do all the things you listed.. surgery, hormone therapy, legal sex change.. to make others think the same.

But she cannot change her genotype. Your DNA is fixed, and therefore you CAN be categorized. There are different variations of our sexual genetics, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7965425
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22246/

It's incredibly interesting, I think.

I never said genotype could be changed.
But I did point out that genotype isn't the sole thing that decides 'male' or 'female' "biologically", and that it doesn't count in social situations.
And she has XX chromosomes, so take of that what you will.

Does she have the XX SRY translocation mutation?

Or does she have more than just those two X's?

If she has the XX genotype but not a vagina and (assuming) she has a penis then there must be more to the story...?

XX male syndrome (also called de la Chapelle syndrome, for a researcher who characterized it in 1972[1]) is a rare sex chromosomal disorder. Usually it is caused by unequal crossing over between X and Y chromosomes during meiosis in the father, which results in the X chromosome containing the normally-male SRY gene. When this X combines with a normal X from the mother during fertilization, the result is an XX male.

This syndrome occurs in approximately four or five in 100,000 individuals, making it less common than Klinefelter syndrome.[2][3]

Umeboshi

Ps. For the record, I'd walk through the streets naked screaming "EUREKA!" before I'd dare ask my man to pick up tampons for me!!! He'd do it, I'm sure...but I'd be embarrassed!

And, yes my man puts up with a lot...and he does a lot for me. And I love him mucho.

I find this very bizarre. I don't find it bizarre that some people would feel like this, but I do find it bizarre that a clearly logical, intelligent person would feel this way. I think, once, I might have lived in a world where such feelings were the norm, I might have even felt that way, but I don't remember very well because it was so long ago.

Oh, and I KNOW Umeboshi is not a troll. She is just passionate about what she believes in and has yet to learn to make a graceful exit before she ends up setting back her cause rather than promoting it.

I'd like to know how staying silent will help any cause.

152dbs

XX male syndrome (also called de la Chapelle syndrome, for a researcher who characterized it in 1972[1]) is a rare sex chromosomal disorder. Usually it is caused by unequal crossing over between X and Y chromosomes during meiosis in the father, which results in the X chromosome containing the normally-male SRY gene. When this X combines with a normal X from the mother during fertilization, the result is an XX male.

This syndrome occurs in approximately four or five in 100,000 individuals, making it less common than Klinefelter syndrome.

so it ur SO male or female...uve used both terms now as a descriptor.

Erindipitous

*kitten* son, I didn't know we've been arguing with Troll, Ph.D


Now back under your bridge... Shoo..

WelcomeToWonderland

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Estrogen =]

Maybe...or maybe not. Depends on the phenotype, genotype, endocrine type or some other type. Assuming estrogen is at play would be to assume a gender role. That would be offensive and uninclusive of all....please rephrase your answer. :laugh:

HAHAHAHA you made a funny.

EpiGaiaRepens

Ps. For the record, I'd walk through the streets naked screaming "EUREKA!" before I'd dare ask my man to pick up tampons for me!!! He'd do it, I'm sure...but I'd be embarrassed!

And, yes my man puts up with a lot...and he does a lot for me. And I love him mucho.

I find this very bizarre. I don't find it bizarre that some people would feel like this, but I do find it bizarre that a clearly logical, intelligent person would feel this way. I think, once, I might have lived in a world where such feelings were the norm, I might have even felt that way, but I don't remember very well because it was so long ago.

Oh, and I KNOW Umeboshi is not a troll. She is just passionate about what she believes in and has yet to learn to make a graceful exit before she ends up setting back her cause rather than promoting it.

Well...it wasn't really meant to be taken seriously. The truth is, I wouldn't ask him because (1) it's my personal business and I take care of my personal business; and (2) I don't know if I could trust him to grab the brand I want and I wouldn't want to have to explain to him all the reasons I want that specific brand.

crisanderson27

Chris,

Fair enough. I actually was not offended about the things she said about men. I was offended by the things she said about how women treat men.

I certainly think that men who are put into the kinds of situations she mentioned are in a pickle...like the "do I look fat" pickle. And I do get why it's unpleasant for a man to buy tampons. And I think guys who maneuver those things well and out of love are awesome. I just didn't like the idea that this is how girls are. I don't use PMS as an excuse to be emotionally abusive...it's not fun having PMS but it's not a free pass to be bat-**** crazy...

Do you get me now?

And thanks my dog is happy...he's snoring right now!

DEFINITELY makes more sense. Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet and miscommunication right? Seems silly now.

I do think she did very nicely give a nod to your point in the last line of the OP though. And...the thing overall that's sort of frustrating to me (and this commentary from here on out isn't related directly to you)...is that people find stereotypes so offensive. I am short. I'm relatively well built. I get the whole 'little man complex' commentary all the time!! Because of my build, I get treated like I'm a moron by people with pocket protectors and short sleeve button up shirts regularly (you should see their faces when I correct a mistake they make...it's priceless). Because I do man things, I get typecast into all sorts of roles that don't really fit me. Most of the time people mistake me for a HIspanic...I'm not. But you know what? I really don't care. I know what I am...I know what I am not. Others are welcome to take a look inside and see...or not, as it pleases them. Either/or...I'm still me. I know that stereotypes...are there for a reason. Some part of that stereotype, almost invariably fits everyone within that stereotype. Many parts don't. If you're aware of that yourself...why does it bother you (collectively, not specifically)?

*shrug*

lickmybaconcakes

I don't know but somehow it seems I've always done something wrong :laugh:

JulieH3art

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Hey Umeboshi,

I think the people you'll want to talk to are geneticists. I'm not sure who exactly these biologists are that you are referring to. I mean no disrespect to you or your girlfriend, because I fully support that if she feels that she is a woman, then she is. And she can do all the things you listed.. surgery, hormone therapy, legal sex change.. to make others think the same.

But she cannot change her genotype. Your DNA is fixed, and therefore you CAN be categorized. There are different variations of our sexual genetics, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7965425
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22246/

It's incredibly interesting, I think.

I never said genotype could be changed.
But I did point out that genotype isn't the sole thing that decides 'male' or 'female' "biologically", and that it doesn't count in social situations.
And she has XX chromosomes, so take of that what you will.

Does she have the XX SRY translocation mutation?

Or does she have more than just those two X's?

If she has the XX genotype but not a vagina and (assuming) she has a penis then there must be more to the story...?

XX male syndrome (also called de la Chapelle syndrome, for a researcher who characterized it in 1972[1]) is a rare sex chromosomal disorder. Usually it is caused by unequal crossing over between X and Y chromosomes during meiosis in the father, which results in the X chromosome containing the normally-male SRY gene. When this X combines with a normal X from the mother during fertilization, the result is an XX male.

This syndrome occurs in approximately four or five in 100,000 individuals, making it less common than Klinefelter syndrome.[2][3]

HA *high fives self*

Thanks for answering.

This makes her more genetically female than male in my humble opinion (and inexperience).