"It's SIMPLE! Burn more than you consume!" (B.S.)

_Wits_

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.

Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.

Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage

...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.

Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."

Cuz they all make money off of eachother? *scratches head*

MeliciousGibson

I agree with ramgi. I think the lady just wanted to have a vent, whether her ideas about weight loss were correct or not. I don't think the sarcastic and unsupportive comments were what this site intended to promote. Instead of the frosty or downright nasty replies, surely someone could have just offered some support and said they hoped she found what was going wrong with her diet and fitness plan soon.
Come on guys, don't you ever have days when you just need to get something off your chest and don't want advice?

^THIS!!!!!

When you post something you know is controversial, and do it in a confrontational manner, then you can, and should, expect some serious blowback. Don't start a fire if you can't stand the heat.

Do I not appear to be handling the heat? I think I'm doing OK. I'm not in a corner crying rocking and sucking my thumb or anything. Yes, I vented. Yes, a few people that feel better when they're being nasty, rude, or belittling to others piped in. That's going to happen no matter WHAT you post.

Let me just throw something WILD out there, though - with this group of people (meaning the people that regularly read post to the forums) ANY TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL!!!!!

BoydLabBuck

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.

Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.

Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage

...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.

Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."

Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there

To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)

Shall we talk about it some more?

I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.

Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.

Sidesteal

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.

Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.

Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage

...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.

Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."

Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there

To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)

Shall we talk about it some more?

I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.

Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.

Please read this:
http://weightology.net/?p=265

Acg67

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.

Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.

Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage

...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.

Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."

Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there

To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)

Shall we talk about it some more?

I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.

Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.

But Taubes points the finger at carbs and only at carbs, with gems like this,

"If you restrict only carbohydra­tes, you can always eat more protein and fat if you feel the urge, since they have no effect on fat accumulati­on"

"But protein and fat don't make us fat-only the carbohydra­tes do-so there is no reason to curtail them in any way"

And why does he do that? Because according to him, only carbs can spike your insulin. Whoops but that is a fabrication in his mind

Holt et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276

http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html

There are things that can effect the cals out side of equation, but doesn't make it any less true.

BTW: If you want to read some more on the obese under reporting intake and expenditure, here you go

Discrepancy between Self-Reported and Actual Caloric Intake and Exercise in Obese Subjects

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199212313272701


Is Obesity Caused by Calorie Underestimation? A Psychophysical Model of Meal Size Estimation

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/permission/2007/CalorieUnderestimation-JMR2007.pdf

Keltinator

MeliciousGibs: I've gone through a similar thing as you before, and I'd like to share my story/opinion:

In previous jobs I've worked, I've had to almost continuously ride a bicycle for 7.5 to 8 hours. I was definitely eating less than what I was burning. I didn't, however, lose that much weight (I lost around 10 pounds). But what did happen? I gained a whole bunch of muscle. So the scale didn't move much, and I didn't look all that smaller, but I felt the fittest I've ever felt, and I was more toned.

I'm no biologist, but to me, that was my body's way of responding to the fact that I was being active all the time 5 days a week. My body didn't need to get smaller, it needed more muscle to meet the demands I was making of it.

I realize this may not apply to your situation, but I figured I'd say it anyway.

jedibunny

I think they make lotion for the chaffing of nether-parts.

PLEASE tell me what it is, cause the itching has become unbearable.

:laugh:


...nothing worthwhile to contribute, but thanks for the laughs.

wackyfunster

Congrats on defeating the laws of thermodynamics. I always knew physicists were just making things up!

carld256

Do I not appear to be handling the heat? I think I'm doing OK. I'm not in a corner crying rocking and sucking my thumb or anything. Yes, I vented. Yes, a few people that feel better when they're being nasty, rude, or belittling to others piped in. That's going to happen no matter WHAT you post.

Let me just throw something WILD out there, though - with this group of people (meaning the people that regularly read post to the forums) ANY TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL!!!!!

Actually I wasn't referring to you. I was thinking of a couple other recent topics where people have posted really off the wall nonsense, with much vehemence, and then cried when they were taken to task for it.

But I stand by what I say. Your original post was intentionally confrontational, and you shouldn't have been at all surprised by the snarky replies you got back.

babycook

I'm going to agree with you. I for one burn more calories than I take in. But for me I went a good 20 years of only eating once a day, living on coffee and now have metabolic syndrome so my hormones are screwed up. There is more to it than just that. At least that's my opinion.

albayin

Oh lord...who can be mad at this little thing even if he was mean....LOL

auroranflash

Actually, what she said wasn't wrong - anymore than you were or were not.

If you wanna go "lalalallalalalala" how's about it ( as in go ahead) but don't call it science either way with limited facts.

And yes, 20 people could very easily generate 10 different results. The same person could generate different results from one weight loss to the next...

Age, race, fitness levels, muscle development, breathing isues, sleep patterns, types of food, developing hormonal issues, the amount of weight you have lost, and much more all contribute...off meds, on meds, colds, disease...it all an affect this.

Your body can burn fat (or muscle) but can hold on to nurtients, trace minerals, water and not all lipids go away, and the fat we burn can be stored in other ways - that is why you can continue to lose size and not lose weight.

This is all way too complicated. I give up. Where are the Body by Vi salesmen? HELP PLEASE, WEIGHT LOSS IS MAGIC AND MAGIC IS CRAZY

GauchoMark

OK, I wasn't going to post to this, but I can't bear it anymore. I understand biologics are complex systems that can be difficult to completely define...

However, they can only "fool" the laws of physics for a short period of time. The 2nd law of thermodynamics (yeah, I said it) pretty much says that you can't gain weight unless you are burning less than you consume.

Your body (and your measurement systems) can fool it for a week, maybe two, or longer if your measurements are off, but over time, if you burn more than you consume, you will lose weight until you are out of fat reserves, then die. (don't go that far!)

For more info, look up the 2nd law of thermo and perpetual motion.

Just is not so simple - you body can and will hold onto other things if for one of soooo many different reasons it determines (not to mean to make it sound like it is thinking about it) it needs to store building blocks - it is to basal to quote thermodynamics, and "be done".

yeah, but it IS that simple. That is the point. I am not talking about a few days, or a week, because your body has mechanisms to deal with variation. But, long term, if you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight, then die. Case closed. That is how people starve to death. Your body can only compensate for so long, until it gives in to the energy balance.

If you are at a calorie deficit long term and don't lose weight, the only explanation is 1) overestimating activity or 2) underestimating intake 3) a nuclear reactor in your belly?

BoydLabBuck

Obviously there is study after study that refutes a previous study and vice versa. From purely anecdotal evidence Taubes' theory works (for myself and multiple others I know personally). Other methods can and will work for other people, just like some methods won't work. Again, it's not simple. Diet is extremely complex. Telling people "just cut down your calories" or "work out longer/harder/differently" is obviously not working for us collectively.

And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.

Acg67

Obviously there is study after study that refutes a previous study and vice versa. From purely anecdotal evidence Taubes' theory works (for myself and multiple others I know personally). Other methods can and will work for other people, just like some methods won't work. Again, it's not simple. Diet is extremely complex. Telling people "just cut down your calories" or "work out longer/harder/differently" is obviously not working for us collectively.

And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.

Do you know why his "theory" works? A caloric deficit! So magically the energy balance equation still holds.

Sidesteal

And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.

Why do you continue to imply that someones physique has any indication of the quality of their information?

swanny320

I totally understand the OP's frustration. I've felt frustrated too when I felt that I was doing all I could do but not making headway; HOWEVER, if it wasn't as simple as calories in and calories out, people who were held in Auschwitz or people living in the Sudan wouldn't have looked like skeletons. Granted, no one here is shooting for that look...and to be healthy and fit requires a lot more than calorie counting...but yeah, that's my two cents.

Marlei5610

OK, I was just venting because I've been extremely frustrated that I've been doing all of the "right" things based on opinions from different people. Trust me, I've tried the "Eat more to lose weight", I've tried the 15% less than TDEE....I've given plenty of time in between applications to give it time to actually work. And nothing.

Today I finally just snapped when someone said to me flat out, "I don't know why you're stressing - it's simple. Burn more than you take in". If it were that simple, would I be struggling like I am?

As for varying my routine - the only thing I can do is ADD. I am a Zumba Instructor - I teach Zumba. There's only so much you can do with a Zumba format... So I can try to add strength training to one of the days I'm also teaching Zumba. This is a job, I can't just NOT do it.

I do appreciate the nasty and sarcastic responses, though! (by the way, that's my own sarcasm, in case you missed it) It serves to remind me why I rarely ever post to these forums. Such a nasty and unsupportive place. Honestly, I've never known a forum be so full of such nasty people in my life - and I've belonged to more than a few of them!

I'm happy to have been able to provide you with the opportunity to get it all out, though! Carry on!

I'm going to give you a completely different response by saying that the statement IS true, BUT the burning of the calories part of the statement isn't as simple as it appears.

We all know skinny people who eat loads of junk and who do little or no exercise, right? Why aren't they fat? It's because everyone's body is unique (apart from most identical twins). As at least one other poster implied, human metabolism is a mysterious beast. Age, gender, genetics, medical conditions and medications can all play their part. Sadly, I'm learning (partly due to this website), that I have to take in fewer calories than I think I'm using. It sucks, and I empathise with you and every other person who struggles with this.

On upside, you look lovely in your photo. :-)

bm99

I totally understand the OP's frustration. I've felt frustrated too when I felt that I was doing all I could do but not making headway; HOWEVER, if it wasn't as simple as calories in and calories out, people who were held in Auschwitz or people living in the Sudan wouldn't have looked like skeletons. Granted, no one here is shooting for that look...and to be healthy and fit requires a lot more than calorie counting...but yeah, that's my two cents.

Why don't you throw in the starving children in Ethiopia and REALLY depress everyone. Yikes.

But I totally agree with your point

lizziebeth1028

In general - I think when you have a lot to lose 'eating less moving more' is a great strategy and you will see results. But I think as you get close to a healthy weight it gets more 'scientific' then that. There is no guesstimating. You need to know your BMR, TDEE, how many calories you are burning during exercise to get the right 'formula' for your body. I also think you need to change it up every so often to keep yourself challenged and your body guessing. I think..for me, it's always going to be a evolving process of finding what is working the best.