Vegetarianism. Seriously? (A Debate)

Elizabeth_C34

They stopped using lard decades ago. Sad really, as nutritionally, lard is actually very high in monounsaturated fat, and medium chain triglycerides, the healthy stuff people are spending crazy amounts of money on coconut oil for. :laugh:

I believe it was you who pointed this out to me in a recent thread. It was very exciting news. I went out that day and bought a lb. of bacon, read the label with glee and "pigged" out. From now on I'm using lard to make my pie crusts. Thank you for that!

Yup. My grandmother cooked with lard for years. Turns out, it's not nearly as bad as everyone thought as long as you don't overdo it (just like anything else). It's also cheap.

Cliffslosinit

They stopped using lard decades ago. Sad really, as nutritionally, lard is actually very high in monounsaturated fat, and medium chain triglycerides, the healthy stuff people are spending crazy amounts of money on coconut oil for. :laugh:

I believe it was you who pointed this out to me in a recent thread. It was very exciting news. I went out that day and bought a lb. of bacon, read the label with glee and "pigged" out. From now on I'm using lard to make my pie crusts. Thank you for that!

Yup. My grandmother cooked with lard for years. Turns out, it's not nearly as bad as everyone thought as long as you don't overdo it (just like anything else). It's also cheap.

*runs out buys bucket of lard for Father's Day* Daddy needs some pie

nikinyx6

This is not an opinion topic. Humans were not made to eat meat and it causes a variety of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes, and strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms go along with those conditions. Those are the leading causes of death and debilitating diseases. I'm not going to explain my position to someone that's not open minded, it's easier talking to a wall. Meat is causing the health care industry millions. Do your own research instead of posting on here like an *kitten* making vegetarian jokes.

Anything posted in a forum becomes an 'opinion topic' OVER EATING meat causes the health problems you describe, not a balanced diet that includes meat...

ironanimal

This is not an opinion topic. Humans were not made to eat meat and it causes a variety of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes, and strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms go along with those conditions. Those are the leading causes of death and debilitating diseases. I'm not going to explain my position to someone that's not open minded, it's easier talking to a wall. Meat is causing the health care industry millions. Do your own research instead of posting on here like an *kitten* making vegetarian jokes.

Explain the appendix and enzymes designed specifically to break down meat.

VegesaurusRex

Apparently, crushing your attempt to prove that "yours is really as big as mine" was either overlooked or misunderstood.

I'll type more slowly this time...

I come back to this board periodically, and I just noticed two things with this post:

Yes. We noticed. Because you're desperately insecure and suffering from the worst case of eLittleMan Syndrome, ever.


Oh, my. I guess you always argue ad hominem, right? Is that what they taught you in law school? What law school did you say you went to again?



Buckle-in Cupcake, this is going to sting a bit.

1. The dude who started this string seems upset that someone (me) said he was on steroids, and

I'm not hurt anymore than if you would have called me an octopus or the moon. Your statement was an inane, irrelevant retort that made absolutely no sense, nor had any basis in reality... other than the fact that I appear quite "large" in my picutre... of which you clearly took note.



Gee you seemed so upset that you remarked that a vegetarian had said you were on steroids. Of course your statement that you were larger than 7 vegans and a car was not inane, irrelevant, or just plain dumb.



Does someone need a wittle hug in my big, strong arms?



Thanks, I'll pass. I am a guy who is not interested in guys, and besides I am married.





Rather than establish a statement that supported your viewpoint, you levied an emotional response along the lines of, "Yeah well... you're a great-big doodie-head, and I'm rubber...and..and you're glue."

Case in point... In the same paragraph, you "hypothesized" I use steroids, you additionally explained that I was going to soon die of heart disease. And that was the crux of your "vegetarianism is nifty" argument.

Wow. Ya got me.



Nope. Your diet got you.



I'm sorry Peaches, but no one in the audience was fooled, nor impressed by your "argument." Including those that actually support your "argument." If those on "your side" don't even support you, there not much call to take you seriously, is there...



I see you know a lot about arguing. What law school did you say you went to?



But hold-on Muffincake, I'm not quite finished with you.

2. The same dude seems to be claiming to be an attorney.

It's fairly easy to prove or "carry burden" as we say. There's a piece of paper on the wall behind me.



I know a lot of attorneys. Being an attorney is no guarantee of being bright.

As for number 1, this dude, showing a photo of six or seven vegans and their car, claimed that he was "bigger than everyone in that photo plus the car." After that statement he gets upset when someone says he's on steroids?

Clearly, you've never seen me "upset." You are an adorable wee, tiny lil man though. Feisty. Like a puppy.

Hello! Are you bigger than a car and several people without steroids?

Yes.

Then you better change your diet, Dude.

Hmm. Maybe I should join a fitness website, and discuss other diets that I don't understand. Let's see how that turns out.

As for number 2, I have never seen an attorney argue this poorly.

Obviously, you've never been to a courthouse, anywhere, ever.



Probably a hundred times more than you.

If you are an attorney, you are certainly not here to argue or debate, and I think your comments about wanting to actually learn about vegetarianism are disingenuous.

I don't know. I seem to be crushing your wee lil plea for attention, just fine.



Look, you are the one who announced to the world that you were a big bad attorney. Personally, I would never reveal that about myself, since if it were true (not saying yes or no) you will be fighting the perception of being a shyster for the rest of the time you are on this board. Trust me, people are not impressed by occupation, particularly that of attorney. Wanna hear some lawyer jokes?

As I said, there are hundreds or even thousands of studies that show, among other things that vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters, vegetarians are smarter than meat eaters (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6180753.stm), vegetarians are wealthier than meat eaters (okay this one could be chicken and the egg - do weathier people become vegetarians?

And as I said multiple times, anyone can quote studies, statistics, other websites, facts, figures and anecdotal data. That's not an argument. That's "hearsay." They taught us stuff like that in law school.



It's called expert testimony. True, I don't have witnesses to introduce the studies, but since you don't seem to have gone to a law school that had evidence classes, let me just tell you that there is something called the learned treatise exception:

"Learned Treatises. To the extent called to the attention of an expert witness upon cross-examination or relied upon by the expert witness in direct examination, statements contained in published treatises, periodicals, or pamphlets on a subject of history, medicine, or other science or art, established as a reliable authority by the testimony or admission of the witness or by other expert testimony or by judicial notice. If admitted, the statements may be read into evidence but may not be received as exhibits."

In addition any evidence that is probative of the point for which it is being offered, if from a trustsworthy source, can be admitted.

I am cross examining you as a self styled expert witness on diet.

Or do vegetarians become wealthier people), vegetarians have lower incidence of chronic diseases such as heart disease or cancer then non-vegetarians, and, well, my favorite, vegetarians are satisfied with themselves in terms of ethics, karma and ecology. This latter attribute is considered by meat-eaters to be a "superior attitude." Okay, I guess it is, but why does it bother you so much?

Another reason I'm not debating you specifically, is because I question your competency and mental status. The statement above would stand as specific evidence to the effect. Being that I never said anything about any of the issues nor statements that you referenced in that statement, at any time, ever, I don't think you're of sound mind and body.



Considering you don't like what I am saying and considering that you truly do have an ego the size of many attorneys I have met, I am sure you do feel that way. I am starting to think you really are an attorney.



Perhaps it's the lack of protein. Or possibly testosterone.

Anyway, this is a false debate.

Yeah. I actually posted that three (3) times. Go read. Come back smarter.

It is all opinion and anecdotal information.

Do you actually read the things you post?

We had several real debates on this subject (see, e.g., http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/609763-meat-eating-vs-vegan-debate) where we quoted studies and debated the relative merits of the studies.

Yet, you keep desperately vying for my attention. Weird.



Vying for your attention? You started a board on a topic. I am interested in the topic (though not interested in you at all). Therefore I post. I would say that the person who started this topic is the one vying for attention.

Counselor, is this any way to put on a case?

Nope. This is how I post in a discussion forum pursuant the Community Guidelines, documented below.

Where is your expert witness? Where is your in rem jurisdiction? Your arguments seem pretty quasi in rem to me!

Well, first... you need to stop Googling "legal terms," in a feeble attempt to look intelligent. You're not. Everyone reading this has long since summed you up. Just stop.

Second, your sentence above is almost as inane and asinine as you telling someone you don't know, have never met and know absolutely nothing about that they are "taking steroids" and "about to die from heart failure."

You see Poohbear, you're what scientists like to call "an idiot." You've spent several hours on this thread, reading and posturing a feeble effort to argue the values of vegetarianism, based solely on the following pivotal, key elements:

- I'm a big meanie-head
- I look like I take steroids
- I'm going to soon die of heart failure
- Big meatheads can't be lawyers
- And three (3) links to other websites you think are neato

I've enjoyed this.

Now, stay down. It will hurt less.



It doesn't hurt at all. What law school did you say you went to? Wasn't a correspondence course, was it?

gchutson

I'm beginning to think you like these eBeatings.

lindseym1983

If it doesn't fly or swim I barely ever eat it. I use to love meat but as I have gotten older I don't care for the taste of most of it, even with chicken and some fish. Not sure what changed but most meat taste gamey to me anymore so I try and eat mostly fruits, veggies, and some carbs. I don't have a hard time making 3/4 of my plate fruits and veggies and just a few small bites of meat.

VegesaurusRex

This is not an opinion topic. Humans were not made to eat meat and it causes a variety of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes, and strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms go along with those conditions. Those are the leading causes of death and debilitating diseases. I'm not going to explain my position to someone that's not open minded, it's easier talking to a wall. Meat is causing the health care industry millions. Do your own research instead of posting on here like an *kitten* making vegetarian jokes.

Amen, brother!

VegesaurusRex

This is not an opinion topic. Humans were not made to eat meat and it causes a variety of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes, and strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms go along with those conditions. Those are the leading causes of death and debilitating diseases. I'm not going to explain my position to someone that's not open minded, it's easier talking to a wall. Meat is causing the health care industry millions. Do your own research instead of posting on here like an *kitten* making vegetarian jokes.

Explain the appendix and enzymes designed specifically to break down meat.

Exactly what are you referring to. Be specific. The last time you said "bears," then you said "not bears."

VegesaurusRex

I'm beginning to think you like these eBeatings.

Believe me, if this is the best you can do, I'll cope.

ironanimal

This is not an opinion topic. Humans were not made to eat meat and it causes a variety of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes, and strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms go along with those conditions. Those are the leading causes of death and debilitating diseases. I'm not going to explain my position to someone that's not open minded, it's easier talking to a wall. Meat is causing the health care industry millions. Do your own research instead of posting on here like an *kitten* making vegetarian jokes.

Explain the appendix and enzymes designed specifically to break down meat found in the human body

Exactly what are you referring to. Be specific. The last time you said "bears," then you said "not bears."

Bears are still bears, and they're still omnivorous. Your belief that omnivores don't exist doesn't disprove that, nor does providing a list of conditions for something being an omnivore, which is contrary to your belief that they don't exist.

I expanded my query to make it easier to understand.

Also, do you dispute the fact that vegetarians can consume too many calories, fats or sugars?

lindseym1983

Jchutson- Whatever your eating, keep it up you look good!

gchutson

Jchutson- Whatever your eating, keep it up you look good!

I'm thinking about starting a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarians, are delicious.

kazzari

Jchutson- Whatever your eating, keep it up you look good!

I'm thinking about starting a vegetarian diet.

Vegetarians, are delicious.

As are you.

angcubby

I believe meat is a survival food. Not that we need it to survive...but that it is what kept humans alive hundreds of years ago when we didn't have all of luxuries that we do now....like homes with electricity...and desk jobs. Today, meat is no longer "clean". Its pumped full of hormones and the animals are fed genetically modified crap. This stuff doesnt just disappear after the animal ingests it. It becomes part of us when we eat it. Its a leading cause of many diseases including cancer. These animals are also treated horribly. Which causes the meat to become toxic. The living conditions are not like they were hundreds of years ago. These animals are kept in cramp quarters and it's not sanitary. All of the nutrients that our bodies EVER NEED are found in plants. The animals all get their nutrients from plants. Why cant we? I'm not saying that everyone needs to give up meat. Obviously that isn't going to happen. But even my husband, who was an avid meat eater, has cut back on his meat intake to once or twice a month. He feels great. I'm a vegan and It's not because I am some animal rights activist or something. Although, I hate that animals are treated the way they are. I am a vegan because i am health conscious and eating toxic, hormone-filled, genetically modified animal carcasses is not something that is going to benefit my health in the long run.

katy84o

What bothers me about that whole lot [of people that have never existed ever] (referencing other people is forbidden), is that you never see "healthy" vegetarians. By "healthy," I mean my definition of "healthy." IE, muscles, built, powerful, etc...

Have you ever googled vegetarian bodybuilders? Or vegetarian athletes? I'm sure there are vegetarians that would fit your definition of "healthy". I stopped eating meat for a few years, I did eat seafood at least once every two weeks sometimes more, but for the most part my protein came from vegetable sources, legumes, and eggs. I grew up in a hunting family where we had deer meat more often then beef. My choice to limit meat was not because I love animals so I don't want to see them harmed, but because the way we produce meat is really bad for the environment and really gross. The way chickens are produced just turns me off completely from eating chicken, that is not organic. When I started strength training I was finding it hard to hit a high amount of protein with out supplemental protein shakes, so I have added meat back into my diet, but only maybe once/week. And I only have deer meat from what my family has killed, not farmed stuff, Or something locally farmed. I did find that not eating meat every single day helped me to try and enjoy new foods. My food choices have become more interesting and healthy and i'm way more interested in nutritional benefits of food, and not just filling my belly. Before, It was dinner time = meat, veggie, and bread or potatoes on the plate. Boring.

I do understand that being vegan or vegetarian, it takes a lot of dedication to get the right nutrients your body needs. But I don't think that it's fair to say that vegetarian's aren't healthy, even with your definition. Because just as there are unhealthy vegetarian's who eat a load of junk just because it's vegetarian, there are unhealthy omnivores, who eat nothing but junk. And just as there are pushy vegetarians saying there way is better, there are pushy meat eaters saying there way is better. The only better way is what's right for each individual.

Cait_Sidhe

Pointless thread is pointless.

I don't care what you eat. Why do you care what I eat or why I eat it?

Rocbola

I believe meat is a survival food. Not that we need it to survive...but that it is what kept humans alive hundreds of years ago when we didn't have all of luxuries that we do now....like homes with electricity...and desk jobs. Today, meat is no longer "clean". Its pumped full of hormones and the animals are fed genetically modified crap. This stuff doesnt just disappear after the animal ingests it. It becomes part of us when we eat it. Its a leading cause of many diseases including cancer. These animals are also treated horribly. Which causes the meat to become toxic. The living conditions are not like they were hundreds of years ago. These animals are kept in cramp quarters and it's not sanitary. All of the nutrients that our bodies EVER NEED are found in plants. The animals all get their nutrients from plants. Why cant we? I'm not saying that everyone needs to give up meat. Obviously that isn't going to happen. But even my husband, who was an avid meat eater, has cut back on his meat intake to once or twice a month. He feels great. I'm a vegan and It's not because I am some animal rights activist or something. Although, I hate that animals are treated the way they are. I am a vegan because i am health conscious and eating toxic, hormone-filled, genetically modified animal carcasses is not something that is going to benefit my health in the long run.

Well said!

tsaarloos

HAHAHHAHAHA!! LOVE IT

Hearts_2015

What bothers me about that whole lot [of people that have never existed ever] (referencing other people is forbidden), is that you never see "healthy" vegetarians. By "healthy," I mean my definition of "healthy." IE, muscles, built, powerful, etc...

Have you ever googled vegetarian bodybuilders? Or vegetarian athletes? I'm sure there are vegetarians that would fit your definition of "healthy". I stopped eating meat for a few years, I did eat seafood at least once every two weeks sometimes more, but for the most part my protein came from vegetable sources, legumes, and eggs. I grew up in a hunting family where we had deer meat more often then beef. My choice to limit meat was not because I love animals so I don't want to see them harmed, but because the way we produce meat is really bad for the environment and really gross. The way chickens are produced just turns me off completely from eating chicken, that is not organic. When I started strength training I was finding it hard to hit a high amount of protein with out supplemental protein shakes, so I have added meat back into my diet, but only maybe once/week. And I only have deer meat from what my family has killed, not farmed stuff, Or something locally farmed. I did find that not eating meat every single day helped me to try and enjoy new foods. My food choices have become more interesting and healthy and i'm way more interested in nutritional benefits of food, and not just filling my belly. Before, It was dinner time = meat, veggie, and bread or potatoes on the plate. Boring.

I do understand that being vegan or vegetarian, it takes a lot of dedication to get the right nutrients your body needs. But I don't think that it's fair to say that vegetarian's aren't healthy, even with your definition. Because just as there are unhealthy vegetarian's who eat a load of junk just because it's vegetarian, there are unhealthy omnivores, who eat nothing but junk. And just as there are pushy vegetarians saying there way is better, there are pushy meat eaters saying there way is better. The only better way is what's right for each individual.

:flowerforyou:

foodietrudie

Im on the veggie side:)
Being a vegeterian has made me an overall happier person. I feel like i have more energy, my skin looks great, my will power is incredible, my cooking skills have improved, I feel fuller for less calories, I'm saving the lives of many animals, Ive been forced to try new things, most of which i love, i save money because i don't eat out as often... I could go on and on all day about the benifits of eating things without faces, yet i don't feel the need to. I eat how i eat zas a choice. Im not one of those people who want everyone to go veggie, and i don't believe that meat is evil. Its just not for me!!

VegesaurusRex

Bears are still bears, and they're still omnivorous.

Yes, that is why they are in the class carnivora, which means carnivores.

Your belief that omnivores don't exist doesn't disprove that, nor does providing a list of conditions for something being an omnivore, which is contrary to your belief that they don't exist.

The "list of conditions" are scientific facts about the animals considered to be in each category. The characteristics mentioned are what biologists use to determine taxa. Each taxon is a group of living things with the same characteristics. Have you had a college level biology course?

I expanded my query to make it easier to understand.

If you want me to explain the existence of certain enzymes, you must first tell me what enzymes you are referring to. I am not going to guess.

If you want me to explain the existence of a vestigal organ, I can't.

If you want me to explain why the vestigat organ existed or continues to exist, I can't

If you want me to explain what the vestigal organ does, I can can.


Also, do you dispute the fact that vegetarians can consume too many calories, fats or sugars?

Of course some do. However, generally, the health of vegetarians is superior to that of meat eaters.

gchutson

Pointless thread is pointless.

I don't care what you eat. Why do you care what I eat or why I eat it?

So... you posted on a thread... to express to the world... that you're above posting... on the thread... you just posted on.

The word "pointless" did come to mind, in all fairness.

wk9t

Boo yah!!!

Hearts_2015

Im on the veggie side:)
Being a vegeterian has made me an overall happier person. I feel like i have more energy, my skin looks great, my will power is incredible, my cooking skills have improved, I feel fuller for less calories, I'm saving the lives of many animals, Ive been forced to try new things, most of which i love, i save money because i don't eat out as often... I could go on and on all day about the benifits of eating things without faces, yet i don't feel the need to. I eat how i eat zas a choice. Im not one of those people who want everyone to go veggie, and i don't believe that meat is evil. Its just not for me!!

This is helpful for me to hear how much healthier you feel and the many benefits of exploring various types of foods in the plant world as well. My goal is to work hard on trying out new things and posts such as yours help a great deal! Thanks for taking time to share.

NicoleElen

I do not wish to live a life without meat. Especially bacon. What reason would I have to wake up in the morning?

On a more serious note, I actually think a vegetarian life is better for you. I just don't want to do it. Life it too short to miss out on the more delicious things.

gchutson

I do not wish to live a life without meat. Especially bacon. What reason would I have to wake up in the morning?

On a more serious note, I actually think a vegetarian life is better for you. I just don't want to do it. Life it too short to miss out on the more delicious things.

I wish bacon would run for president.

ironanimal

Have you had a college level biology course?

Actually, yes I have.

The "list of conditions" are scientific facts about the animals considered to be in each category.

Was kind of my point. You tell me omnivores don't exist and then provided a list of conditions for them to exist.

cboscari

I went vegetarian for ethical reasons at first, then read an excellent book called "The China Study" that completely convinced me. I eat mostly whole grains, vegetables and fruits. My intake is currently at around 2000 calories a day and I could easily eat more. I weigh about 200 pounds, trying for 185. I am 6'0.

I think that many people automatically assume vegetarian=low calorie/healthy but it isn't necessarily so. Some people think that it means eating Iceberg lettuce salads or jars of peanut butter, and that's how they run into problems with their health (B12 deficiency) or weight gain. You have to eat a varied diet full of vegetables to be healthy, but that's true of everyone.

VegesaurusRex

Pointless thread is pointless.

I don't care what you eat. Why do you care what I eat or why I eat it?

So... you posted on a thread... to express to the world... that you're above posting... on the thread... you just posted on.

The word "pointless" did come to mind, in all fairness.

She is absolutely right. This thread is pointless. You as the OP have no more interest in vegetarianism than you have in learning the exceptions to hearsay rule. You started this thread with one purpose and one purpose only - to make fun of vegatarians. You think you are funny,but you are truly pathetic.