Vegetarianism. Seriously? (A Debate)

Biggipooh

Lol the cavemen didn't have any protein powder. I guess we developed pretty good.

porffor

I'm not going to commit the time to reading all the posts, but will say I'm veggie, because meat makes me want to throw up.. no other reason. If you are gagging at the taste or texture of something then your body obviously doesn't need it.

As for my teeth I've had no side effects from not ripping meat apart and my molars grind veggies just as well as meat or fish.

The bonus for animals is a bonus and one that means I can feel good about that, but my hubby and kids all eat meat - their choice. They are never forced to, nor stopped from eating meat. I do insist they are aware of where the meat comes from and have stood in the street by some half pigs hanging off a lorry before now so my middle daughter could actually 'see' what was in her sausages, not to horrify her, just to educate her.

VegesaurusRex

If you overeat animal flesh the animals will have the last word. Heart disease, cholesterol, high blood pressure. Enjoy them. ;-0 Karma can be such a

---

.

Yup, karma's a witch. You kill the cow, the cow kills you. You might want to mention that studies have shown that the maximum safe amount of meat to eat each week is 70 grams per week. That's one and a half quarter pounders every two weeks.

Enjoy, you red blooded red meat eaters!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1360609/Red-meat-DOES-increase-risk-bowel-cancer-If-eat-3-ham-slices-day.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2116252/Red-meat-Its-food-die-As-grisly-new-report-says-eating-beef-healthier-drinking-arsenic-MAX-HASTINGS-reaches-defiantly-steak-knives.html

VegesaurusRex

Look in the mirror? See those pointy, sharp little teeth at the sides of your mouth? Those are designed for ripping and tearing animal flesh.

Yum, meat.

Is this what you see when you look in the mirror?

http://free-extras.com/images/tiger_teeth-210.htm

ironanimal

Look in the mirror? See those pointy, sharp little teeth at the sides of your mouth? Those are designed for ripping and tearing animal flesh.

Yum, meat.

Is this what you see when you look in the mirror?

http://free-extras.com/images/tiger_teeth-210.htm

That's a carnivore, not an omnivore. Derp.
Meet Mr. Omnivore...

carriempls

I generally don't mention being vegetarian to anyone unless it becomes necessary because so often the person I'm telling will go on and on in their defense of eating meat. In the grand scheme of things, sure, I wish people ate a lot less meat for all kinds of reasons but on an individual level I don't care what you eat. I've made my choices, you make yours.

All that said, my reasons are probably all already detailed here in this long *kitten* thread that I haven't read through. If you google "reasons to go vegetarian" I'm sure it's all there too. It's an ethical thing for me from so many angles (environmental, suffering, factory farming, and so on) and I also believe it's better for me nutritionally.

One thing I will say about meat eaters that I don't understand is the arbitrary nature of which animals are chosen to be eaten and which ones appall you. Why is eating a cow or chicken different than eating a horse or a cat? That's one thing I simply can't wrap my head around. Ah well.

eric198

While I have no problem with the folks that want to be vegetarian, vegan, etc., and I do think eating large portions of fruit, veggies, nuts, beans, etc. is extremely beneficial... meat is still a highly desirable part of the human diet. I do try and limit my portions to keep calories in check each day. But, honestly, I sometimes get "meat hungry" and nothing else will suffice. Fire up the grill!

Bob314159

When I was young I ate meat all the time, I'm sure many times for 3 meals a day

When I was around 25 I cut back and was a vegetarian for almost a year. Now I like meat a lot, but only eat 2 or 3 meals with meat a week, I find it tastes good, but its too heavy on me.

ironanimal

One thing I will say about meat eaters that I don't understand is the arbitrary nature of which animals are chosen to be eaten and which ones appall you. Why is eating a cow or chicken different than eating a horse or a cat? That's one thing I simply can't wrap my head around. Ah well.

That's more a culturual and/or practical thing. There isn't much meat on a cat and they have been bred as companions rather than as food. In the case of the horse, it is eaten in some countries, including France. They also eat snails and frog legs so I don't really trust their judgement, however.

rainydaze613

I generally don't mention being vegetarian to anyone unless it becomes necessary because so often the person I'm telling will go on and on in their defense of eating meat. In the grand scheme of things, sure, I wish people ate a lot less meat for all kinds of reasons but on an individual level I don't care what you eat. I've made my choices, you make yours.

All that said, my reasons are probably all already detailed here in this long *kitten* thread that I haven't read through. If you google "reasons to go vegetarian" I'm sure it's all there too. It's an ethical thing for me from so many angles (environmental, suffering, factory farming, and so on) and I also believe it's better for me nutritionally.

One thing I will say about meat eaters that I don't understand is the arbitrary nature of which animals are chosen to be eaten and which ones appall you. Why is eating a cow or chicken different than eating a horse or a cat? That's one thing I simply can't wrap my head around. Ah well.

Agree x100!

I think lots people, especially in western societies, are mentally disconnected from their food. If they eat meat, they should know the true extent of what they are doing, and that's fine. I just can't stand the ones who say they won't eat lobster because it looks like one or something, but they will gladly devour whole chickens in the form of chicken nuggets. They're really choosing the wrong reasons to be "disgusted".

VegesaurusRex

Look in the mirror? See those pointy, sharp little teeth at the sides of your mouth? Those are designed for ripping and tearing animal flesh.

Yum, meat.

Is this what you see when you look in the mirror?

http://free-extras.com/images/tiger_teeth-210.htm

That's a carnivore, not an omnivore. Derp.
Meet Mr. Omnivore...

Actually, that is a vegetarian. Even a carnivore like the Tiger CAN eat vegetables, but if the Tiger does not get certain animal proteins, it will die, go blind or suffer some other diseases. The photo you produced is a photo of a creature who could live his whole life without ever eating meat. That is a vegetarian.

An "OMNIVORE" is a ridiculous term that has no real meaning. An omnivore can be either a vegetarian that can eat meat, or a carivore who can eat veggies. In other words, an omnivore is, at least outide of the class insecta, is every living organism on the planet that has a nervous system. The term is meaningless.

catdoc1

I am vegetarian (vegan, really) for 3 reasons:

1st, diverting grain to feed inefficient animals has a HUGE deleterious affect on the environment, which affects ALL animals everywhere, including humans and wildlife. It takes 9# of grain to make 1# of beef, grain that humans could consume instead. I am healthy, food tastes GREAT, and my carbon footprint is 1/3 that of a meat eater. A meat-based diet is no sustainable for this planet.

2nd, for my health. When I changed to a healthy, vegan diet from a "healthy" meat-based diet, my cholesterol dropped from 204 to 124 in 3 months and my weight dropped 20#

3rd, I am the daughter of a farmer with a degree in animal sciences. I have witnessed the American version of animal agriculture first hand, and participated in it. I've been on a kill floor more than once at a meat packing plant. No more. There are extremely few "Old MacDonald Farms" in the US - most animal agriculture is very similar to Auschwitz, and I don't want to be part of that any more. It's a nasty, dirty, environmentally-polluting, cruel, violent business.

Do I occasionally miss the taste of meat, eggs, and cheese? Hell yes! Is it worth eating it to give up the things above. No way! I've learned to cook again, and vegan food tastes great!

yourenotmine

I do believe eating no meat or little meat significantly reduces the interior and exterior wear and tear on your body. Plus you are more likely to consume and ENJOY fruit, vegetables, and legumes. For children raised vegetarian, it sets a foundation for life for healthy eating. All of my kids love healthy food, they don't have that distaste for veggies that seems common in American children.

I would never tell anyone they SHOULD be vegetarian, but I do think most people (at least in the states) eat too much meat. You can never go wrong in reducing how much meat you eat, but eating too much meat can actually hurt you.

Scientifically, none of this is true. Vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores all have the same rates of disease and life expectancies. Also, I eat meat, and I've never not enjoyed fruit, vegetables, or legumes. Vegetarian =/= healthy eating, as there are plenty of things that are vegetarian that are not healthy. Oreo cookies, potato chips, french fries, just 3 examples off the top of my head that are considered vegetarian (well, vegan technically.)

Good habits lead to good health, no specific diet or way of eating automatically leads to good health.

And GC, commercial potato chips are fried in canola oil, vegetable oil, or sunflower oil. They stopped using lard decades ago. Sad really, as nutritionally, lard is actually very high in monounsaturated fat, and medium chain triglycerides, the healthy stuff people are spending crazy amounts of money on coconut oil for. :laugh:

Apparently, you've never been to the south. We fry everything in lard. Last night I had chicken-fried ice tea.

I think my mother used to make iced tea that way. Did you also have the can of used bacon grease on the counter for future use?

Curious - to the other poster - where'd you get your stats on vegans/vegetarians/omnivores having the same rates of disease and life expectancies? I'd like to read about that too.

ironanimal

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/chimpanzee/

Rocbola

I spent 30 years as a meat eater, and i loved it. I tried the high protein, low carb thing back in '05, and exercised, but lost very little weight. I loved wrapping steaks in bacon, i loved tenderizing and seasoning my meat, or marinating it. I loved taking meat camping and cooking it over a fire. I LOVED slow smoked meats, like brisket and all the usual stuff at any southern style BBQ joint. I tried to have meat at every meal. I had read that eating protein keeps you satiated, so i believed that, and i usually had meat or eggs with every meal.

I decided right before my 31st birthday to TRY veganism out and see how i liked it. After all, i had made fun of vegans so much, but had never actually tried it. So i tried it out for a little while. You don't know unless you try it. It just makes sense. Humans are not meant to eat as much meat as we in America eat. I have A LOT more energy now, and i lost a lot of weight. (70 LBS in 3 months) My skin got clearer. My digestion got better. I feel younger. I don't need coffee anymore. I sleep better. I am not contributing to clogging my arteries with every meal anymore. I am not contributing my money to a corrupt industry anymore. The food that i eat digests quickly. I have less gas. I have less acid indigestion. My, uh, bathroom schedule is very regular.

And i've realized that i wasn't born with a fork, knife, or stove on my back, nor was i born with claws, yet i do have hands perfect for picking fruit off a tree. I have eyes that see color very well, unlike my meat eating friends from the animal kingdom, so i am very good at spotting ripe fruit. I have a jaw that is perfect for masticating fruit and tender leafy greens. I have a digestive track that is optimized for these foods, too.

So many people are like how i was, they say they could never be a vegan, yet they have never given it a chance. Try it. You may like it, i did. When you eat the diet that humans are supposed to eat, you get healthier. And the natural human diet is that of a frugivore. It all becomes clear if you try it. I know many people are going to call me mean things because i shared part of my story, and it may disagree with what they consider fact, but of you people, how many have actually given a healthy vegan diet a proper trial?

yourenotmine

all it takes is a mutlivitamin???? Wow....really??? Come on now. I work in a hospital. Did you know that when a vegan has surgery, we all groan. Why? because they take twice as long to heal. Even the ones that follow the diet carefully, and take "itty bitty multi vitamins" have this issue. If you don't eat meat for moral reasons that is yoru choice, but please.....it is not biologically prudent for human beings, who are natural omnivores, to eat vegan.

I think a lot of vegans and vegetarians would take issue with your assertion that humans are designed to be omnivores.

Isn't it diabetics who have the real trouble healing? And it's the rare vegan who is a (type II) diabetic.

VegesaurusRex

Difference between herbovore, carnivore and human:

Anatomically and physiologically, people are herbivores.

Facial Muscles
Carnivore: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore: Well-developed
Human: Well-developed

Jaw Type
Carnivore: Angle not expanded
Herbivore: Expanded angle
Human: Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location
Carnivore: On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore: Above the plane of the molars
Human: Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
Carnivore: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Human: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles
Carnivore: Temporalis
Herbivore: Masseter and pterygoids
Human: Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Carnivore: Large
Herbivore: Small
Human: Small

Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore: Short and pointed
Herbivore: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Human: Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore: Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Human: Short and blunted

Teeth (Molars)
Carnivore: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Human: Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
Carnivore: None; swallows food whole
Herbivore: Extensive chewing necessary
Human: Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
Carnivore: No digestive enzymes
Herbivore: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Human: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach
Carnivore: Simple
Herbivore: Simple or multiple chambers
Human: Simple

Stomach Acidity
Carnivore: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Human: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity
Carnivore: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Human: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine
Carnivore: 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore: 10 to more than 12 times body length
Human: 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
Carnivore: Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore: Long, complex; may be sacculated
Human: Long, sacculated

Liver
Carnivore: Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Human: Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidneys
Carnivore: Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore: Moderately concentrated urine
Human: Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
Carnivore: Sharp claws
Herbivore: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Human: Flattened nails

yourenotmine

I love meat...especially my husband's. He is really great in the kitchen.

Well now, that's just different...

ironanimal

Anatomically and physiologically, people are herbivores.

Or omnivores, depending on whether you believe in them exisiting or not.

VegesaurusRex

When we kill the animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings." --William C. Roberts, M.D., editor of The American Journal of Cardiology