Carnivores – why?
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No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
I am not going to lie. I do feel morally superior. And healthier.0 -
Dear Vegetarians:
Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!
Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?
^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?
First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.
So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?
Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?
Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.
You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.
I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.
Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em
Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.0 -
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
the moral superiority argument is a guilt complex. i do not feel morally superior to someone who eats meat (i have participated in my fair share of immoral behavior, whatever that means).
what's most offensive, though (not to mention tacky) is to post pictures of roasting flesh as if your idea of attractive and tasty should somehow convert a vegetarian into an all-out flesh frenzy.
i'm not even a vegetarian, but i'll say, it shows nothing but lack of class and manners to wave meat around and flaunt it as if you were proud of it (even if you are) to someone who finds it repulsive.
i would have hoped your mama raised you better.
(not necessarily aimed at the person quoted, just a general statement).0 -
Dear Vegetarians:
Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!
Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?
^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?
First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.
So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?
Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?
Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.
You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.
I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.
Ah, so you are looking for a ch*nk in my armor, so you can convince yourself I'm a hypocrite. Sorry, but you really need to do some introspection to see why you would want to do that. Peace.
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I generally dislike argument for argument's sake. You have already indicated that you are 'fully conscious of your place in the world as an omnivore.' This language indicates an obdurate stance. So, be happy in your world of certitude. My husband, VegesaurusRex, on the other hand, loves these sorts of discussions, so he will probably be in here shortly. Adieu.
While I didn't see it as an argument but rather a spirited discussion and exchange of ideas, I am quite certain that we are part of the food chain and omnivores.0 -
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
I am not going to lie. I do feel morally superior. And healthier.
I refuse to co-opt the language Doorki imposes on this discussion. Instead I prefer this quote from Franz Kafka to explain how I feel as a vegetarian: "Now at last I can look at you in peace, I don't eat you anymore."0 -
and i'll add one more reason why i prefer vegetables to meat: because they ARE living.
i want my food to be as close to alive as possible when I eat it.
i know it's kindof against "modern" thinking, but it has always been the case for people to eat food that is fresh, living and/or close to living when consumed. it provides a different kind of nutrient and energy one can't get from dead, burnt flesh.0 -
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
I am not going to lie. I do feel morally superior. And healthier.
Glad you feel healthier than someone you have never met. I find your discussion style rather aggressive and judgemental. Is this going to be an exchange of ideas or you just sniping comments?0 -
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
the moral superiority argument is a guilt complex. i do not feel morally superior to someone who eats meat (i have participated in my fair share of immoral behavior, whatever that means).
what's most offensive, though (not to mention tacky) is to post pictures of roasting flesh as if your idea of attractive and tasty should somehow convert a vegetarian into an all-out flesh frenzy.
i'm not even a vegetarian, but i'll say, it shows nothing but lack of class and manners to wave meat around and flaunt it as if you were proud of it (even if you are) to someone who finds it repulsive.
i would have hoped your mama raised you better.
Amen, Kayemme.0 -
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I totally understand the moral/ethical objections to eating animals, even if I personally choose to eat them myself. But if meat is so gross, why do so many vegetarians eat so much fake meat?
Exactly!!....I'm not finding a big market for fake brussel sprouts and brocolli.
that's not always the case, but the american palate has been conditioned for a certain salty quality and it takes time to get out of that habit. at least that was the case for me. i never eat meat substitutes. i occasionally eat meat, but i prefer vegetables.
with me, anyway, i thought i didn't like vegetables because i had only had them from cans or boxes. what an eye opener when i first tasted beautiful, fresh broccoli! that was many years ago now, and i can't imagine going back. same with brussels sprouts: roasted with garlic and olive oil, you really can't beat 'em.
The reason we eat fake meat is so that we can feel a sense of normalcy in this omniverous majority. What the hell are we supposed to eat at a family barbecue? Vegetables? NO! We want to have the same things, but in our own way. If it wasn't called a veggie burger and was instead called a vegetable-soy-patty would that make you happy? Or instead of calling them "chick'n" nuggets, calling them processed vegetables shaped into a nugget like object? I never understood this point. Its not meat, so its not like we are killing an animal to eat it. I didn't stop eating meat because I didn't like how it tasted. I loved how it tasted, but eating meat is a choice, and its a choice I didn't want to make anymore. I don't not eat meat because of taste. I still want to be able to eat similar faire to my family. If they are having spaghetti with meatballs, its nice to have something to substitute for the meatballs that is similar, but meat free. Another thing is tofurkey instead of lunch meat. Its not meat, but it makes it easy for me to make a sandwich. I eat meat substitutes mostly so I can eat the same things as my family without having to actually eat meat.0 -
hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.0
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No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
the moral superiority argument is a guilt complex. i do not feel morally superior to someone who eats meat (i have participated in my fair share of immoral behavior, whatever that means).
what's most offensive, though (not to mention tacky) is to post pictures of roasting flesh as if your idea of attractive and tasty should somehow convert a vegetarian into an all-out flesh frenzy.
i'm not even a vegetarian, but i'll say, it shows nothing but lack of class and manners to wave meat around and flaunt it as if you were proud of it (even if you are) to someone who finds it repulsive.
i would have hoped your mama raised you better.
Amen, Kayemme.
I waved no such meat pictures0 -
Dear Vegetarians:
Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!
Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?
^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?
First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.
So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?
Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?
Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.
You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.
I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.
Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em
Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.
The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.0 -
because it is natural to eat meat and it tastes great.0
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Because it's the most efficient source of protein. We've been eating it for thousands upon thousands of years. It's a part of our evolution.0
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I've never seen so many ignorant responses in one thread before.. nicely done!
I do, however, enjoy the 4th grade mentality responses. "IT TASTE GOOD" "CANT GET PROTEIN WITHOUT IT" "PUT IT ON DA GRILL YA'LL"
Educate yourselves jeesh.
Why exactly do you feel the need to insult those of us who don't think like you do? Jeesh is right!0 -
I waved no such meat pictures
i didn't necessarily mean you in particular... i was responding to you, but then addressing another subject. i edited to reflect it
sorry 'bout that.. 0 -
No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.
I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.
(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)
Edited to fix quote
I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.
the moral superiority argument is a guilt complex. i do not feel morally superior to someone who eats meat (i have participated in my fair share of immoral behavior, whatever that means).
what's most offensive, though (not to mention tacky) is to post pictures of roasting flesh as if your idea of attractive and tasty should somehow convert a vegetarian into an all-out flesh frenzy.
i'm not even a vegetarian, but i'll say, it shows nothing but lack of class and manners to wave meat around and flaunt it as if you were proud of it (even if you are) to someone who finds it repulsive.
i would have hoped your mama raised you better.
Amen, Kayemme.
I waved no such meat pictures
No, you didn't, and I am grateful for that. Kayemme and I have witnessed this in other threads which dealt with this subject matter. That is aesthetically displeasing to many vegetarians, and there were a few gifs of this sort earlier in this thread.0 -
Dear Vegetarians:
Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!
Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?
^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?
First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.
So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?
Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?
Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.
You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.
I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.
Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em
Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.
The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/29/10033.full.pdf+html?sid=f78311f9-74dc-4ef7-a8a6-0993bb8ae9070 -
I have yet to meet a human being that's a carnivore.
You, my friend... are a very smart girl!!! We are omnivore's OP.
And perhaps the reason we get offended right off the bat is because you threw the word "silly" in to describe us.
Maybe had you just approached the question maturely, and really dug to find out why people actually enjoy it, they would not be so offended. But you posted this just to poke fun. Oh well...
I was born and raised a meat eater, always have been, and more than likely always will be!0 -
I have yet to meet a human being that's a carnivore.
There are societies that only eat meat. Just because you don't know much doesn't mean they don't exist.0
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