VERY personal ~ TMI

Phoenix_Rising

You can find a man that doesn't have raging testosterone. The irony is that if you find him you won't want a thing to do with him.

That's kind of the way I feel.

I don't want to be a defender of the male gender because there are plenty of d-bags out there. Just like there are plenty killer biatches out there.

It's not about raging testosterone. It's about how he DIRECTS that drive.
If I'm right here and you are going to enjoy yourself in front of a computer screen, why should I not take that as a personal affront? Why would I NOT make that out to be something personal?
(And in my situation, I was available. He chose the computer.)



BY THE WAY
I truly appreciate this community.
Everyone here has come together to kindly and respectfully debate our point of views on this topic.
No one (that I recall at the moment) has been hostile or directly attacked another, even with increasingly varied views on this topic.
I'd just like to thank you all for continuing to be so great. :flowerforyou:

havingitall

There are a lot of sub-topics floating around in this thread. They all share a common theme, but they are each separate in their own way.

For the person who is getting together on-line with ex-girlfriends, there are precious few women who are going to be tolerant or understanding of that. I have a couple ex-girlfriends as Facebook friends, but I don't ever chat or private message with them, and my wife is a friend (as she should be) and can see all the same stuff I can. I have nothing to hide. I have a very simple rule I always follow. If I am about to do something I wouldn't want to do in full sight of my wife, I don't do it.

The recreational viewing of adult video (porn, whatever) is, for most anyway, a recreational choice. Those who find it offensive are usually hard-pressed to explain why. They will make up statements about women being degraded, which is rarely the case, or that it is morally reprehensible, which is a judgement based on values that not everyone shares.

Most of those excuses are just that; excuses. The real issue, most of the time, is the offended partner, which is nearly always a woman, is personally insecure and feels threatened by the material. Men are grossly outnumbered here, so I am probably about to get inundated with hate mail, but the reality is that these are your personal issues. You are with a man that likes to view beautiful women. Guess what? That is why he looked at you in the first place.

I am no spring chicken. I have had my share of years trying to change things about my partner and having my partner trying to change me. Luckily that is all behind me and my wife loves and accepts me for who I am, just as I do her. You cannot change your man's natural character any more than you can change your own. You can play the 'if you loved me you would...' card all you want, but he is not going to change. Love him, accept him, or leave him. It is that simple. You can find a man that doesn't have raging testosterone. The irony is that if you find him you won't want a thing to do with him.

Excellent post. Excellent and true.

I agree, and also with songbyrdsweet!

Instead of calling men pigs and degrading them, the real topic is how YOU feel about this. If he is looking at porn (even local women) and it makes you uncomfortable that points to your own self-esteem issues and lack of trust in the relationship as it does not necessarily mean he has a problem. If there is a chance that he could cheat with a local woman and you don't trust him, there is no need to continue the relationship. No trust=constant judgement and stress.
So focus on why you are insecure, not why he is wrong. Whenever we feel uncomfortable it is always easier to find fault in the other person rather than deal with our own issues. Be strong and by that I mean, talk to him as openly as you have on here, let him know your expectations and insecurities. He may want you to participate, he may be ready to move on or he may just be a total d-bag. It doesn't matter, what matters is that YOU take charge of your end of the relationship and do your part.
If you don't approve of his actions and the two of you can't find common ground.... then there is no further discussion, you can't change him, he can't change you. Therefore there is no need to continue the relationship. End of story. (Walk away if that is what is necessary, with you head held high and forgiveness in your heart.) ((Forgiveness is for you, not him.))

I'm not at all trying to sound harsh and I am sorry if I do. I've had some relationships that resulted in cheating. The fact of the matter was that he had the problem, not me. I could have blamed him and held on to the dead relationship with anger, but there is no point in letting him have power over me. Sometimes its just time to move on and the first person who realizes it doesn't always handle it in the best way. (Women are just as A-hole-ish as men, we ust don't notice because we are supporting our sisters unconciously.)There are decent men out there, alot of them actually. Unfortunatley for me the ones around here are either married or gay:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Couldn't have said this better if I tried. Basically.. talk to him. If he won't change you have two options. Put up with the behaviour and the lack of trust or get out of the relationship and find somebody who has your beliefs and will repsect you. I see by your info that you were married before and divorced. Obviously you got divorced because there was something in the marriage that was not working for you. (that's why I got divorced). If this relationship is not working for you either, you know what you have to do

Marla64

You can find a man that doesn't have raging testosterone. The irony is that if you find him you won't want a thing to do with him.

That's kind of the way I feel.

I don't want to be a defender of the male gender because there are plenty of d-bags out there. Just like there are plenty killer biatches out there.

It's not about raging testosterone. It's about how he DIRECTS that drive.
If I'm right here and you are going to enjoy yourself in front of a computer screen, why should I not take that as a personal affront? Why would I NOT make that out to be something personal?
(And in my situation, I was available. He chose the computer.)



BY THE WAY
I truly appreciate this community.
Everyone here has come together to kindly and respectfully debate our point of views on this topic.
No one (that I recall at the moment) has been hostile or directly attacked another, even with increasingly varied views on this topic.
I'd just like to thank you all for continuing to be so great. :flowerforyou:

Damn-- I must be slipping--

Wecandothis

What if you had just gotten over YOUR dislike for it and let him have HIS sexual freedom in his privacy? Then he wouldn't have to be secretive about something that shouldn't be a problem anyway, and you wouldn't have felt betrayed? It's not like you have to look at it just because he does. Just a thought.

Did you miss the part where he's "talking" to his ex online and the fact that this isn't just porn, but local women?

I have to agree with Brenda here. This thread is an example of expert hijacking. I hope you're okay Seoid (The OP if we've forgotten).

This thread was not about what women should or should not 'let' their men do, nor was it about Seoid becoming more 'liberal' with her views about pornography. She didn't even mention how she felt about it.

She said she felt betrayed about her boyfriend on a site with his ex-girlfriend and other local women.

I've been fully educated now in everyone's personal ideas about porn and their sex lives (which really is TMI :laugh: ), but I'm concerned about Seoid.

And I think that she should do what she has to do for herself. She should be true to her own convictions about this situation. And she should take care of herself first and foremost.

I'm out here rooting for you Seoid - and sending prayers your way.

GTOgirl1969

There are a lot of sub-topics floating around in this thread. They all share a common theme, but they are each separate in their own way.

For the person who is getting together on-line with ex-girlfriends, there are precious few women who are going to be tolerant or understanding of that. I have a couple ex-girlfriends as Facebook friends, but I don't ever chat or private message with them, and my wife is a friend (as she should be) and can see all the same stuff I can. I have nothing to hide. I have a very simple rule I always follow. If I am about to do something I wouldn't want to do in full sight of my wife, I don't do it.

The recreational viewing of adult video (porn, whatever) is, for most anyway, a recreational choice. Those who find it offensive are usually hard-pressed to explain why. They will make up statements about women being degraded, which is rarely the case, or that it is morally reprehensible, which is a judgement based on values that not everyone shares.

Most of those excuses are just that; excuses. The real issue, most of the time, is the offended partner, which is nearly always a woman, is personally insecure and feels threatened by the material. Men are grossly outnumbered here, so I am probably about to get inundated with hate mail, but the reality is that these are your personal issues. You are with a man that likes to view beautiful women. Guess what? That is why he looked at you in the first place.

I am no spring chicken. I have had my share of years trying to change things about my partner and having my partner trying to change me. Luckily that is all behind me and my wife loves and accepts me for who I am, just as I do her. You cannot change your man's natural character any more than you can change your own. You can play the 'if you loved me you would...' card all you want, but he is not going to change. Love him, accept him, or leave him. It is that simple. You can find a man that doesn't have raging testosterone. The irony is that if you find him you won't want a thing to do with him.

I agree with you on 98% of that.

The only problems *I* have with the situation are....

That it's infidelity in two main ways. The first being that he's talking to his ex online...what red-blooded woman will think that it's acceptable? And he KNOWS that she feels that way, and continues to do it.

Same thing with the adult videos. He KNOWS she doesn't care for that...she made it very clear....and he does it anyway.

What could be more unfaithful than running roughshod over your partner's feelings?

ladybugg

I read through a few of the replies, so not sure how much of what I am about to say has already been said but neither men or woman need porn to fill any part of their healthy life. That is an excuse based on addiction and lack of self control as well as respect. I have been married over 20 years and yes, the porn issue has come up. I think it gets broken down into two view points, you do not think porn is unhealthy, you are willing to accept it in your life as long as certain "rules" are kept or you think porn has not place in a relationship. I come from the later of the view points.
Personally if I knew my husband had been or was looking at porn I would confront him. He would need to know I felt it a disrespect to me and our marriage. If he feels the bedroom is missing something, porn is not going to solve that, open and honest communication is. If he feels the urge to look at it and it just keep drawing him, he has an addiction. He will need to seek a twelve step program or some other form of counsel to deal with his addiction. I of course am not speaking of the occasional glimpse or passing joke with a nude picture but of daily viewing of porn whether it be books, magazines,TV,movies..
Now on the other hand if you are willing to allow porn in your relationship then it becomes about you, do you have the security to feel you have his love,trust and full bedroom attention, if so then talk that over with him, let him now how you feel and really talk it over with yourself..it comes down to personal values,morals and beliefs, once you rule out addiction,
and addiction is a far different cry more than the person who just looks here or there, addiction is defined by the desire to stop but cant. or knowing it is destroying your life and relationships but you continue to do it anyway or the need for more and more to achieve a certain level of satisfaction and then needing it just t
o feel normal.

dlestermfp

So, I found out last night my BF has been viewing naked pics online. This destroys my self esteem & makes me feel like I am not good enough.

I know this is TMI ~ but I need help.

Anyone else struggled with this?

This was the first post, which said nothing about interacting with ex-girlfriends online. That information wasn't disclosed until later, and that is how the discussion went down the path that it did.

Although I already said it, some responders are still saying the same things. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and your choice to live a life where you are constantly confronting your husband about issues that bother you, but only the people who have a good relationship will understand when I say how much nicer it is to not live that way. Your spouse should be someone who shares your ideals and values, not someone you have to guilt into submission. The jokes and stereotypes about women 'breaking in' their man are really just jokes.

Another eye opener for many is this illusion that your spouse is somehow responsible for your happiness. That simply isn't true. There is only one person responsible for your happiness, and that is you.

leavinglasvegas

So, I found out last night my BF has been viewing naked pics online. This destroys my self esteem & makes me feel like I am not good enough.

I know this is TMI ~ but I need help.

Anyone else struggled with this?

This was the first post, which said nothing about interacting with ex-girlfriends online. That information wasn't disclosed until later, and that is how the discussion went down the path that it did.

Although I already said it, some responders are still saying the same things. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and your choice to live a life where you are constantly confronting your husband about issues that bother you, but only the people who have a good relationship will understand when I say how much nicer it is to not live that way. Your spouse should be someone who shares your ideals and values, not someone you have to guilt into submission. The jokes and stereotypes about women 'breaking in' their man are really just jokes.

Another eye opener for many is this illusion that your spouse is somehow responsible for your happiness. That simply isn't true. There is only one person responsible for your happiness, and that is you.

Well said! Bravo!:drinker: :drinker: :drinker:

Phoenix_Rising

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and your choice to live a life where you are constantly confronting your husband about issues that bother you, but only the people who have a good relationship will understand when I say how much nicer it is to not live that way. Your spouse should be someone who shares your ideals and values, not someone you have to guilt into submission. The jokes and stereotypes about women 'breaking in' their man are really just jokes.

I think in a "good relationship", each person respects the other, so you aren't as likely to run into these types of issues in the same fashion. If you respect and love the other person, you put their needs and concerns high on your priorities, which makes 'issues of self' a little less important.

And I agree -- those are 'jokes'. There is no 'breaking in' anyone... unless you just break them. :frown:

Another eye opener for many is this illusion that your spouse is somehow responsible for your happiness. That simply isn't true. There is only one person responsible for your happiness, and that is you.

While they aren't responsible for your happiness, to truly love another does mean wanting and desiring their happiness above all else. When reciprocated, it makes for a beautiful symbiotic relationship. When one side starts focusing on their own self more and more, the relationship breaks down, becomes one sided and hurtful. At that point, the less-attended-to spouse must determine their limits and accept the situation, or learn to move on however they choose.

Marla64

My last word on this-- as with all things, we are only responsible for ourselves.

My kids will continually run to me with tattles, "he said, she did, they won't," blah, blah, blah-- "Mom, you said we need to clean the room, and I'm the only one cleaning," et cetera.

My answer to my children is almost always the same. You're responsible for yourself. Worry about you.

"My husband this, or my wife that," doesn't help anybody. Worry about being the best person/spouse/friend/lover you can be.

I'm sure many if not most marriages deal with this porn issue, but I truly can't see elevating this to a relationship ender. Not when we take vows to love "for better or worse."