Petpeeves, what does YOUR partner do?
Replies
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Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?0 -
Last thing: he never has a friggin opinion on anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a blank wall. He's just never bothered by anything, the mellowest guy in the world. I just want to know what you're thinking sometimes!!!!
YESYES! Mines not 'mellow' but has no input, or oppinion on anything. Anything bad/exciting/ANYTHING. If I tell him ANY kind of conversation starter. Nothing. Not a word of input except 'oh ya.' Gosh give me something!
Good god, I am glad I am not alone on this. It makes me feel really disconnected. We have plenty of conversations, but for example we are looking to buy a house right now, so we've been checking out places, and I tell him what I like and don't like. I ask him his opinion in return, and I get NOTHING! I don't know whether he doesn't want to disagree with me or whatnot, but I told him that I *want* to know what he has to say, because maybe there's something I missed or didn't consider! He seemed to get that, but trying to pull an opinion out of him was like pulling teeth.
*edit* he even told me that he didn't know WHY he felt a certain way. It's like he just has no clue how to express his opinions and make sense of his emotions. :frown:
Exactly. I have tried to talk to him about it. And he telols me 'i dunno' he doesnt know why he doesnt have an input or doesnt have an oppinion. He has always been this way. and the emotions thing is dead on. He doesnt know how express positive emotins. he is currently going through therapy for anger management and things, which it has helped. but after every class i ask him about it, or what they talked about or what the subject was and its a one word answer. but never on how to express himself. So maybe need to dig deeper. Or maybe he just cant.
He can and he will. It just takes time. While it's not an anger management thing with my hubs, I think the issue is very similar. He grew up in a very "happy" home, and I don't think he ever learned how to deal with conflict. Since expressing your opinion and revealing your emotions can lead to conflict, he's probably learned to completely suppress them and as a result is totally out of touch. At least that's my theory. We're working on it together. He is a sweet, intelligent and funny man and I love him regardless though.
Sounds like you ladies want your men to relate to you like your female friends do. Men don't commiserate or empathize with each other like women do. If you stop trying to force them to 'open up' and just let them know you're there IF they want to talk, they'll be much more willing to come to you. Just my experience in life and in books.
Actually that's not correct. Men have been societally conditioned to not express their emotions. That doesn't mean that they can't or don't want to. And connecting emotionally with your wife/husband is the basis of a stable and fulfilling relationship. Women shouldn't sit back to "wait" for their husband to come to them if they want to talk. Do you realize how sexist that is? We have needs. Just like our husbands have needs. The key is to try to understand EACH OTHER and try to meet each other's needs. Just my experience from therapy with someone that has a Ph.D. in psychology and has worked with couples for 40 years.
I never said they can't or don't want to. I'm just saying a constant hideous tugging of "talk to me, tell me what's on your mind, tell me what you're thinking, I want to BOND with you" is enough to piss anyone off, man or woman. It's not sexist to realize that men and women--and individuals--are different. It's called respecting someone's comfort zone. If you're trying to force a man to open up so *you* can feel closer, only *your* needs are being met.
Who said that we are constantly nagging? How is it unreasonable to want my husband's opinion on the PURCHASE OF OUR HOME? And it *is* sexist to tell a woman to "wait and be ready until her husband is ready to talk to her." That's not respecting each other's differences. Did you read what I said? I said that the key was to understand each other's needs. That means I understanding my husband's needs and he understanding mine, and then trying to meet those needs for each other. *That's* respecting each other.
I didn't say nagging. I said 'tugging'.
How is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?
How is it sexist to let someone alone when they're upset?
Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle?
And why are you so defensive?
"I didn't say nagging, I said tugging" - okay, semantics.
"how is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?" Buying a house is a big deal. It is something that will affect our lives in a major way. This is something he needs to have an opinion on. Very different from something trivial like chunky v. smooth peanut butter.
"how is it sexist to leave someone alone when they're upset" Uhm, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way shape or form was I discussing giving someone space during an argument. It is, however, sexist to expect a woman be quiet and wait for her husband to come to her when he's good and ready. I was never talking about an argument. This is general, everyday life I'm talking about.
"Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle? " I don't need to know what he's thinking at all times. I do, however, need to know what he's thinking when it comes to major life decisions that impact the both of us. Again, I think you are generalizing and misinterpreting what I am saying.
"And why are you so defensive?" Not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not defensive because I don't feel that I am attacked here. I will however grant you that I am very passionate about this, it's near and dear to my heart and I feel there's a lot of people that are going through similar situations. Scratch that, *I know* that there are very many people that go through this, from what our therapist has told us.
I meant tugging as a feeling. It's a feeling of being pulled at, physically or emotionally, when you consider your partner to be needy.
It might be a big deal to you and not him. He may just be content wherever he is with you.
I think you're taking the difference between how men and women process and communicate and making it a 'sexism' issue. It's really not. Men and women are different. Get over it and maybe you'll be happier with your man.
I really don't understand how expecting a woman to sit back quietly to accommodate her husband isn't sexist. If I'm misunderstanding something here please tell me, because that's how I interpreted it. Yes, men and women *are* different. That's my whole point. The key is to not just shrug your shoulders at that and "get over it" -- that leads to emotional distancing, nor is it to try and make a woman act like a man and vice versa. The key is to understand and see how you can meet those needs for each other. My husband is the way he is for a reason. I am the way I am for a reason. I am simply trying to make him happier, and he is in turn trying to make me happier. And I'd like to state for the record that I am very happy with him, there are too many wonderful things about him to list here, but there's always room for personal growth and improvement.0 -
Here is mine
1) Toilet seat up
2) If I don't want to cook or want a salad there must be take out for dinner
3) He turns into a little boy when he gets sick
4) He does not answer his mother so I have to
5) Doesn't let me clean when I want to then gets mad because something isn't done
besides that and working late (out of his control) he's pretty awesome! and I love him of course lol
Oh man I like it when my guy gets a Man Cold. It's cute. "It only hurts...when I move or breathe...*cough cough*".
Haha it's like they are going to die every time they get a stuffy nose
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Doesn't exist. That *kitten* needs to stop doing that.0
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"I didn't say nagging, I said tugging" - okay, semantics.
"how is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?" Buying a house is a big deal. It is something that will affect our lives in a major way. This is something he needs to have an opinion on. Very different from something trivial like chunky v. smooth peanut butter.
"how is it sexist to leave someone alone when they're upset" Uhm, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way shape or form was I discussing giving someone space during an argument. It is, however, sexist to expect a woman be quiet and wait for her husband to come to her when he's good and ready. I was never talking about an argument. This is general, everyday life I'm talking about.
"Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle? " I don't need to know what he's thinking at all times. I do, however, need to know what he's thinking when it comes to major life decisions that impact the both of us. Again, I think you are generalizing and misinterpreting what I am saying.
"And why are you so defensive?" Not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not defensive because I don't feel that I am attacked here. I will however grant you that I am very passionate about this, it's near and dear to my heart and I feel there's a lot of people that are going through similar situations. Scratch that, *I know* that there are very many people that go through this, from what our therapist has told us.
Just adding as well. My BF grew up in a place where nobody told how they were feeling. it was him, his 2 brothers, and his mom. His mom is the same way, except she has an opinion about some things. Just a flat dry one. It something that he too learned very young, and I don't feel it always has to be that way.
Having a baby involved I can use muliple examples. A few being this: When I ask what he thought about that daycare we just checked out, I care to know. If he saw something I didnt, maybe a creepy sex offender in the next room staring through the glass.. i dont know WHAT he saw, so I dont know if there was something he saw that I didnt. Or, if I asked what we should do about his daycare provider after an incident and he doesnt have an oppinion. I think when it comes to the safety of his son, he should TRY to give an oppinion. I think he atleast owes that much to a conversation.
I could go on and on. and yes other people DO suffer from this. Given eamples above, I think it is something that we either let slide or '''NAG''' about, because if I wanted to be a single mom, and make the only decisions in the house I would be. But I am not. So no, I am not going to give up.0 -
Men and young boys have short attention spans if it doesn't directly affect us then most like we don't care. But on that note something that my wife does that boils my blood is. My son is so focused on watching whatever it is that he is watching that she will tell him to do something then he doesn't and she starts yelling at him. He of course has no Idea why his mother is yelling cause even though she thinks he heard every word she said he doesn't even remember her being in the same room let alone talking to him. Now my solution to this is when i want him to do something i go grab the remote and I pause his show(dvr is a wonderful tool) which breaks his concentration and then he is focused on what i am telling him. But she always complains that he listens better to me than to her. But she refuses to use my suggestion when dealing with him.
I watched a documentary one time about parenting children done by child pshycologists. Some of the useful information that I held onto, was getting their attention. Eye contact is suppose to be a must, and speaking at a face to face level with a small child at a monotone voice. I am currently trying this as my son is 14 1/2 mths old. I know his attention span is all over the place. But never too young to try and teach him to listen to me. (Your situation is the opposite at my house I think) but I try sharing my information, and everything I am trying (EX: the face to face confrontation and monotone voice ect.). We'll see how it goes!
I think this also relates to how the male brain is wired. Men are programmed to think serially -- one task, after the next, after the next. They focus on one thing at a time and do it well. Women think in parallel. We multitask and can focus on many things at once. Byproduct of evolution I guess. Pausing the DVD is a great way to direct attention -- now how to do that in a grown man? lol
WHAT THE HELL.
How is it that I'm the only one being sexist when I point out that men and women communicate differently, and then you say exactly the same thing and you're like, a professional?
please see my post above.
*edit* I think your confusion stems from the fact that you've misinterpreted what I've been saying and read things into my posts that I did not say. Perhaps I did the same If I did, please elaborate.0 -
Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?
haha that is great but I know for me the toilet seat thing is for night time- I get the guy is tired but so are we when we get up at night to pee sorry I would rather not bruise my tailbone again for the seat being left up at night when it is dark and I can't see. That hurts!0 -
Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?
haha that is great but I know for me the toilet seat thing is for night time- I get the guy is tired but so are we when we get up at night to pee sorry I would rather not bruise my tailbone again for the seat being left up at night when it is dark and I can't see. That hurts!
What we really need is Urinals in the bathrooms so we don't have this issue but they wouldn't fit in with the decor0 -
Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?
haha that is great but I know for me the toilet seat thing is for night time- I get the guy is tired but so are we when we get up at night to pee sorry I would rather not bruise my tailbone again for the seat being left up at night when it is dark and I can't see. That hurts!
What we really need is Urinals in the bathrooms so we don't have this issue but they wouldn't fit in with the decor
haha already have it priced out when we buy our house :P (they aren't that much) that and our OWN bathrooms then I can spend all the time I want doing makeup and he can shave without getting in each others ways0 -
Last thing: he never has a friggin opinion on anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a blank wall. He's just never bothered by anything, the mellowest guy in the world. I just want to know what you're thinking sometimes!!!!
YESYES! Mines not 'mellow' but has no input, or oppinion on anything. Anything bad/exciting/ANYTHING. If I tell him ANY kind of conversation starter. Nothing. Not a word of input except 'oh ya.' Gosh give me something!
Good god, I am glad I am not alone on this. It makes me feel really disconnected. We have plenty of conversations, but for example we are looking to buy a house right now, so we've been checking out places, and I tell him what I like and don't like. I ask him his opinion in return, and I get NOTHING! I don't know whether he doesn't want to disagree with me or whatnot, but I told him that I *want* to know what he has to say, because maybe there's something I missed or didn't consider! He seemed to get that, but trying to pull an opinion out of him was like pulling teeth.
*edit* he even told me that he didn't know WHY he felt a certain way. It's like he just has no clue how to express his opinions and make sense of his emotions. :frown:
Exactly. I have tried to talk to him about it. And he telols me 'i dunno' he doesnt know why he doesnt have an input or doesnt have an oppinion. He has always been this way. and the emotions thing is dead on. He doesnt know how express positive emotins. he is currently going through therapy for anger management and things, which it has helped. but after every class i ask him about it, or what they talked about or what the subject was and its a one word answer. but never on how to express himself. So maybe need to dig deeper. Or maybe he just cant.
He can and he will. It just takes time. While it's not an anger management thing with my hubs, I think the issue is very similar. He grew up in a very "happy" home, and I don't think he ever learned how to deal with conflict. Since expressing your opinion and revealing your emotions can lead to conflict, he's probably learned to completely suppress them and as a result is totally out of touch. At least that's my theory. We're working on it together. He is a sweet, intelligent and funny man and I love him regardless though.
Sounds like you ladies want your men to relate to you like your female friends do. Men don't commiserate or empathize with each other like women do. If you stop trying to force them to 'open up' and just let them know you're there IF they want to talk, they'll be much more willing to come to you. Just my experience in life and in books.
Actually that's not correct. Men have been societally conditioned to not express their emotions. That doesn't mean that they can't or don't want to. And connecting emotionally with your wife/husband is the basis of a stable and fulfilling relationship. Women shouldn't sit back to "wait" for their husband to come to them if they want to talk. Do you realize how sexist that is? We have needs. Just like our husbands have needs. The key is to try to understand EACH OTHER and try to meet each other's needs. Just my experience from therapy with someone that has a Ph.D. in psychology and has worked with couples for 40 years.
I never said they can't or don't want to. I'm just saying a constant hideous tugging of "talk to me, tell me what's on your mind, tell me what you're thinking, I want to BOND with you" is enough to piss anyone off, man or woman. It's not sexist to realize that men and women--and individuals--are different. It's called respecting someone's comfort zone. If you're trying to force a man to open up so *you* can feel closer, only *your* needs are being met.
Who said that we are constantly nagging? How is it unreasonable to want my husband's opinion on the PURCHASE OF OUR HOME? And it *is* sexist to tell a woman to "wait and be ready until her husband is ready to talk to her." That's not respecting each other's differences. Did you read what I said? I said that the key was to understand each other's needs. That means I understanding my husband's needs and he understanding mine, and then trying to meet those needs for each other. *That's* respecting each other.
I didn't say nagging. I said 'tugging'.
How is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?
How is it sexist to let someone alone when they're upset?
Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle?
And why are you so defensive?
"I didn't say nagging, I said tugging" - okay, semantics.
"how is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?" Buying a house is a big deal. It is something that will affect our lives in a major way. This is something he needs to have an opinion on. Very different from something trivial like chunky v. smooth peanut butter.
"how is it sexist to leave someone alone when they're upset" Uhm, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way shape or form was I discussing giving someone space during an argument. It is, however, sexist to expect a woman be quiet and wait for her husband to come to her when he's good and ready. I was never talking about an argument. This is general, everyday life I'm talking about.
"Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle? " I don't need to know what he's thinking at all times. I do, however, need to know what he's thinking when it comes to major life decisions that impact the both of us. Again, I think you are generalizing and misinterpreting what I am saying.
"And why are you so defensive?" Not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not defensive because I don't feel that I am attacked here. I will however grant you that I am very passionate about this, it's near and dear to my heart and I feel there's a lot of people that are going through similar situations. Scratch that, *I know* that there are very many people that go through this, from what our therapist has told us.
I meant tugging as a feeling. It's a feeling of being pulled at, physically or emotionally, when you consider your partner to be needy.
It might be a big deal to you and not him. He may just be content wherever he is with you.
I think you're taking the difference between how men and women process and communicate and making it a 'sexism' issue. It's really not. Men and women are different. Get over it and maybe you'll be happier with your man.
I really don't understand how expecting a woman to sit back quietly to accommodate her husband isn't sexist. If I'm misunderstanding something here please tell me, because that's how I interpreted it. Yes, men and women *are* different. That's my whole point. The key is to not just shrug your shoulders at that and "get over it" -- that leads to emotional distancing, nor is it to try and make a woman act like a man and vice versa. The key is to understand and see how you can meet those needs for each other. My husband is the way he is for a reason. I am the way I am for a reason. I am simply trying to make him happier, and he is in turn trying to make me happier. And I'd like to state for the record that I am very happy with him, there are too many wonderful things about him to list here, but there's always room for personal growth and improvement.
It's only as sexist as asking a man to have an emotional conversation with his wife after he spilled his guts in a therapy session. It's not sexist. It's asking a person to do something they don't feel comfortable doing just so you feel better about your relationship.
Here's an example of an individual difference: I don't need my SO to spill his guts to me about what's stressing him so I can feel close to him. I tell him I'm there for him if he needs me. I give him a neck rub, snuggle him, and if he wants to talk about it, he does. I listen. We make some love. He feels better. I don't feel distant from him at all. In fact I feel close to him because I know he trusts me and came to me of his own volition. I don't experience emotional distancing by accepting his personality.0 -
Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?
haha that is great but I know for me the toilet seat thing is for night time- I get the guy is tired but so are we when we get up at night to pee sorry I would rather not bruise my tailbone again for the seat being left up at night when it is dark and I can't see. That hurts!
What we really need is Urinals in the bathrooms so we don't have this issue but they wouldn't fit in with the decor
This all wasn't an issue when we lived in a place with 2 bathrooms -- he can do whatever the heck he wants in his bathroom. Now we're in a 1 bathroom apartment...yikes! We're moving though, and he can have his man-bathroom again. Conversely, he won't have to deal with my hair everywhere. I have very long hair, and it gets EVERYWHERE. I try my best to clean it up, but it's a losing battle. He never says anything (god bless him), but I feel terrible about it.0 -
Here is mine
1) Toilet seat up
2) If I don't want to cook or want a salad there must be take out for dinner
3) He turns into a little boy when he gets sick
4) He does not answer his mother so I have to
5) Doesn't let me clean when I want to then gets mad because something isn't done
besides that and working late (out of his control) he's pretty awesome! and I love him of course lol
AMEN to numbers 2 and 5.
And to add, When I am sick, I should still be meant to do everything like a normal day, but if hes sick the world is coming to an end if I don't acknowledge him every 5 seconds and pamper to his every needs.0 -
Men and young boys have short attention spans if it doesn't directly affect us then most like we don't care. But on that note something that my wife does that boils my blood is. My son is so focused on watching whatever it is that he is watching that she will tell him to do something then he doesn't and she starts yelling at him. He of course has no Idea why his mother is yelling cause even though she thinks he heard every word she said he doesn't even remember her being in the same room let alone talking to him. Now my solution to this is when i want him to do something i go grab the remote and I pause his show(dvr is a wonderful tool) which breaks his concentration and then he is focused on what i am telling him. But she always complains that he listens better to me than to her. But she refuses to use my suggestion when dealing with him.
I watched a documentary one time about parenting children done by child pshycologists. Some of the useful information that I held onto, was getting their attention. Eye contact is suppose to be a must, and speaking at a face to face level with a small child at a monotone voice. I am currently trying this as my son is 14 1/2 mths old. I know his attention span is all over the place. But never too young to try and teach him to listen to me. (Your situation is the opposite at my house I think) but I try sharing my information, and everything I am trying (EX: the face to face confrontation and monotone voice ect.). We'll see how it goes!
I think this also relates to how the male brain is wired. Men are programmed to think serially -- one task, after the next, after the next. They focus on one thing at a time and do it well. Women think in parallel. We multitask and can focus on many things at once. Byproduct of evolution I guess. Pausing the DVD is a great way to direct attention -- now how to do that in a grown man? lol
WHAT THE HELL.
How is it that I'm the only one being sexist when I point out that men and women communicate differently, and then you say exactly the same thing and you're like, a professional?
please see my post above.
*edit* I think your confusion stems from the fact that you've misinterpreted what I've been saying and read things into my posts that I did not say. Perhaps I did the same If I did, please elaborate.
I was saying the same as you just said--men and women are wired differently. We communicate in groups of our peers differently. Dissonance occurs when we want our men to communicate with us like other women.0 -
Last thing: he never has a friggin opinion on anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a blank wall. He's just never bothered by anything, the mellowest guy in the world. I just want to know what you're thinking sometimes!!!!
YESYES! Mines not 'mellow' but has no input, or oppinion on anything. Anything bad/exciting/ANYTHING. If I tell him ANY kind of conversation starter. Nothing. Not a word of input except 'oh ya.' Gosh give me something!
Good god, I am glad I am not alone on this. It makes me feel really disconnected. We have plenty of conversations, but for example we are looking to buy a house right now, so we've been checking out places, and I tell him what I like and don't like. I ask him his opinion in return, and I get NOTHING! I don't know whether he doesn't want to disagree with me or whatnot, but I told him that I *want* to know what he has to say, because maybe there's something I missed or didn't consider! He seemed to get that, but trying to pull an opinion out of him was like pulling teeth.
*edit* he even told me that he didn't know WHY he felt a certain way. It's like he just has no clue how to express his opinions and make sense of his emotions. :frown:
Exactly. I have tried to talk to him about it. And he telols me 'i dunno' he doesnt know why he doesnt have an input or doesnt have an oppinion. He has always been this way. and the emotions thing is dead on. He doesnt know how express positive emotins. he is currently going through therapy for anger management and things, which it has helped. but after every class i ask him about it, or what they talked about or what the subject was and its a one word answer. but never on how to express himself. So maybe need to dig deeper. Or maybe he just cant.
He can and he will. It just takes time. While it's not an anger management thing with my hubs, I think the issue is very similar. He grew up in a very "happy" home, and I don't think he ever learned how to deal with conflict. Since expressing your opinion and revealing your emotions can lead to conflict, he's probably learned to completely suppress them and as a result is totally out of touch. At least that's my theory. We're working on it together. He is a sweet, intelligent and funny man and I love him regardless though.
Sounds like you ladies want your men to relate to you like your female friends do. Men don't commiserate or empathize with each other like women do. If you stop trying to force them to 'open up' and just let them know you're there IF they want to talk, they'll be much more willing to come to you. Just my experience in life and in books.
Actually that's not correct. Men have been societally conditioned to not express their emotions. That doesn't mean that they can't or don't want to. And connecting emotionally with your wife/husband is the basis of a stable and fulfilling relationship. Women shouldn't sit back to "wait" for their husband to come to them if they want to talk. Do you realize how sexist that is? We have needs. Just like our husbands have needs. The key is to try to understand EACH OTHER and try to meet each other's needs. Just my experience from therapy with someone that has a Ph.D. in psychology and has worked with couples for 40 years.
I never said they can't or don't want to. I'm just saying a constant hideous tugging of "talk to me, tell me what's on your mind, tell me what you're thinking, I want to BOND with you" is enough to piss anyone off, man or woman. It's not sexist to realize that men and women--and individuals--are different. It's called respecting someone's comfort zone. If you're trying to force a man to open up so *you* can feel closer, only *your* needs are being met.
Who said that we are constantly nagging? How is it unreasonable to want my husband's opinion on the PURCHASE OF OUR HOME? And it *is* sexist to tell a woman to "wait and be ready until her husband is ready to talk to her." That's not respecting each other's differences. Did you read what I said? I said that the key was to understand each other's needs. That means I understanding my husband's needs and he understanding mine, and then trying to meet those needs for each other. *That's* respecting each other.
I didn't say nagging. I said 'tugging'.
How is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?
How is it sexist to let someone alone when they're upset?
Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle?
And why are you so defensive?
"I didn't say nagging, I said tugging" - okay, semantics.
"how is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?" Buying a house is a big deal. It is something that will affect our lives in a major way. This is something he needs to have an opinion on. Very different from something trivial like chunky v. smooth peanut butter.
"how is it sexist to leave someone alone when they're upset" Uhm, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way shape or form was I discussing giving someone space during an argument. It is, however, sexist to expect a woman be quiet and wait for her husband to come to her when he's good and ready. I was never talking about an argument. This is general, everyday life I'm talking about.
"Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle? " I don't need to know what he's thinking at all times. I do, however, need to know what he's thinking when it comes to major life decisions that impact the both of us. Again, I think you are generalizing and misinterpreting what I am saying.
"And why are you so defensive?" Not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not defensive because I don't feel that I am attacked here. I will however grant you that I am very passionate about this, it's near and dear to my heart and I feel there's a lot of people that are going through similar situations. Scratch that, *I know* that there are very many people that go through this, from what our therapist has told us.
I meant tugging as a feeling. It's a feeling of being pulled at, physically or emotionally, when you consider your partner to be needy.
It might be a big deal to you and not him. He may just be content wherever he is with you.
I think you're taking the difference between how men and women process and communicate and making it a 'sexism' issue. It's really not. Men and women are different. Get over it and maybe you'll be happier with your man.
I really don't understand how expecting a woman to sit back quietly to accommodate her husband isn't sexist. If I'm misunderstanding something here please tell me, because that's how I interpreted it. Yes, men and women *are* different. That's my whole point. The key is to not just shrug your shoulders at that and "get over it" -- that leads to emotional distancing, nor is it to try and make a woman act like a man and vice versa. The key is to understand and see how you can meet those needs for each other. My husband is the way he is for a reason. I am the way I am for a reason. I am simply trying to make him happier, and he is in turn trying to make me happier. And I'd like to state for the record that I am very happy with him, there are too many wonderful things about him to list here, but there's always room for personal growth and improvement.
It's only as sexist as asking a man to have an emotional conversation with his wife after he spilled his guts in a therapy session. It's not sexist. It's asking a person to do something they don't feel comfortable doing just so you feel better about your relationship.
Here's an example of an individual difference: I don't need my SO to spill his guts to me about what's stressing him so I can feel close to him. I tell him I'm there for him if he needs me. I give him a neck rub, snuggle him, and if he wants to talk about it, he does. I listen. We make some love. He feels better. I don't feel distant from him at all. In fact I feel close to him because I know he trusts me and came to me of his own volition. I don't experience emotional distancing by accepting his personality.
You're presuming he actually spills his guts in therapy. He doesn't. He has no opinion or emotions in therapy. The therapist has to drag them out of him, and when she does it's like an epiphany for him. Like "wow, I didn't realize I felt this way".
Also, your example is completely irrelevant. You are presuming that your SO has the capability of even talking about it in the first place. Mine does not, and it eats away at him, so much so that it gives him anxiety. Big difference.0 -
Well since this is a partner thread and everyone is Man bashing how about.....
1. She always leaves the toilet seat down
2. She can't just take a shower, there are far more processes required for getting up
3. She puts towels/soap/flannels in the bathroom that we are not permitted to use, they are for company
4. She won't let me put a hamper where I am trying to get out of my dirty/stinky/slimy clothes because it would look bad but yells if I get any part of the house dirty/stinky/slimy or leave clothes out
And Finally
5. She can never spontaneously go out, it is a 20 minute process
You see how patient us guys are?
Iam glad that you added. I was hoping this would be a co-ed thread, because I thought it would be neat to try to put ourselves in the those shoes as well, to see how many things we do like other guys' wives (when they dont like it).
And I am definitally guilty of number 5.. sometimes longer, just depends.0 -
My wife always looks awesome and it makes it hard to concentrate on what I should be doing. *Shakes fist* "Damn you, you incredibly beautiful woman."
You're sweet...Do you have a brother? haha..kidding0 -
My wife always looks awesome and it makes it hard to concentrate on what I should be doing. *Shakes fist* "Damn you, you incredibly beautiful woman."
This is how I feel about my boyfriend. His sexiness overpowers all things I do! haha0 -
Why do guys to the early flush thing?! Mine does it too, and of course there's pee bubbles. >:(
Main thing is when he gets home, he just strips down to his boxers and dumps all the clothes on the floor IN THE LIVING ROOM. And he's ULTRA sweaty! (electrical warehouse worker). Then our cat starts hauling all his socks off to her hiding spots and I have to go and hunt them down. -_(\
same here, even tho we have 4 dirty clothes baskets (1 in the bathroom, laundry room & bedrooms) and somehow his clothes seem to land in the floor of the livingroom or bedroom.0 -
Last thing: he never has a friggin opinion on anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a blank wall. He's just never bothered by anything, the mellowest guy in the world. I just want to know what you're thinking sometimes!!!!
YESYES! Mines not 'mellow' but has no input, or oppinion on anything. Anything bad/exciting/ANYTHING. If I tell him ANY kind of conversation starter. Nothing. Not a word of input except 'oh ya.' Gosh give me something!
Good god, I am glad I am not alone on this. It makes me feel really disconnected. We have plenty of conversations, but for example we are looking to buy a house right now, so we've been checking out places, and I tell him what I like and don't like. I ask him his opinion in return, and I get NOTHING! I don't know whether he doesn't want to disagree with me or whatnot, but I told him that I *want* to know what he has to say, because maybe there's something I missed or didn't consider! He seemed to get that, but trying to pull an opinion out of him was like pulling teeth.
*edit* he even told me that he didn't know WHY he felt a certain way. It's like he just has no clue how to express his opinions and make sense of his emotions. :frown:
Exactly. I have tried to talk to him about it. And he telols me 'i dunno' he doesnt know why he doesnt have an input or doesnt have an oppinion. He has always been this way. and the emotions thing is dead on. He doesnt know how express positive emotins. he is currently going through therapy for anger management and things, which it has helped. but after every class i ask him about it, or what they talked about or what the subject was and its a one word answer. but never on how to express himself. So maybe need to dig deeper. Or maybe he just cant.
He can and he will. It just takes time. While it's not an anger management thing with my hubs, I think the issue is very similar. He grew up in a very "happy" home, and I don't think he ever learned how to deal with conflict. Since expressing your opinion and revealing your emotions can lead to conflict, he's probably learned to completely suppress them and as a result is totally out of touch. At least that's my theory. We're working on it together. He is a sweet, intelligent and funny man and I love him regardless though.
Sounds like you ladies want your men to relate to you like your female friends do. Men don't commiserate or empathize with each other like women do. If you stop trying to force them to 'open up' and just let them know you're there IF they want to talk, they'll be much more willing to come to you. Just my experience in life and in books.
Actually that's not correct. Men have been societally conditioned to not express their emotions. That doesn't mean that they can't or don't want to. And connecting emotionally with your wife/husband is the basis of a stable and fulfilling relationship. Women shouldn't sit back to "wait" for their husband to come to them if they want to talk. Do you realize how sexist that is? We have needs. Just like our husbands have needs. The key is to try to understand EACH OTHER and try to meet each other's needs. Just my experience from therapy with someone that has a Ph.D. in psychology and has worked with couples for 40 years.
I never said they can't or don't want to. I'm just saying a constant hideous tugging of "talk to me, tell me what's on your mind, tell me what you're thinking, I want to BOND with you" is enough to piss anyone off, man or woman. It's not sexist to realize that men and women--and individuals--are different. It's called respecting someone's comfort zone. If you're trying to force a man to open up so *you* can feel closer, only *your* needs are being met.
Who said that we are constantly nagging? How is it unreasonable to want my husband's opinion on the PURCHASE OF OUR HOME? And it *is* sexist to tell a woman to "wait and be ready until her husband is ready to talk to her." That's not respecting each other's differences. Did you read what I said? I said that the key was to understand each other's needs. That means I understanding my husband's needs and he understanding mine, and then trying to meet those needs for each other. *That's* respecting each other.
I didn't say nagging. I said 'tugging'.
How is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?
How is it sexist to let someone alone when they're upset?
Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle?
And why are you so defensive?
"I didn't say nagging, I said tugging" - okay, semantics.
"how is it unreasonable that he doesn't have an opinion?" Buying a house is a big deal. It is something that will affect our lives in a major way. This is something he needs to have an opinion on. Very different from something trivial like chunky v. smooth peanut butter.
"how is it sexist to leave someone alone when they're upset" Uhm, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way shape or form was I discussing giving someone space during an argument. It is, however, sexist to expect a woman be quiet and wait for her husband to come to her when he's good and ready. I was never talking about an argument. This is general, everyday life I'm talking about.
"Why do you NEED to know what your husband is thinking? What if it's nothing? What if it's about yogurt? Or his left testicle? " I don't need to know what he's thinking at all times. I do, however, need to know what he's thinking when it comes to major life decisions that impact the both of us. Again, I think you are generalizing and misinterpreting what I am saying.
"And why are you so defensive?" Not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not defensive because I don't feel that I am attacked here. I will however grant you that I am very passionate about this, it's near and dear to my heart and I feel there's a lot of people that are going through similar situations. Scratch that, *I know* that there are very many people that go through this, from what our therapist has told us.
I meant tugging as a feeling. It's a feeling of being pulled at, physically or emotionally, when you consider your partner to be needy.
It might be a big deal to you and not him. He may just be content wherever he is with you.
I think you're taking the difference between how men and women process and communicate and making it a 'sexism' issue. It's really not. Men and women are different. Get over it and maybe you'll be happier with your man.
I really don't understand how expecting a woman to sit back quietly to accommodate her husband isn't sexist. If I'm misunderstanding something here please tell me, because that's how I interpreted it. Yes, men and women *are* different. That's my whole point. The key is to not just shrug your shoulders at that and "get over it" -- that leads to emotional distancing, nor is it to try and make a woman act like a man and vice versa. The key is to understand and see how you can meet those needs for each other. My husband is the way he is for a reason. I am the way I am for a reason. I am simply trying to make him happier, and he is in turn trying to make me happier. And I'd like to state for the record that I am very happy with him, there are too many wonderful things about him to list here, but there's always room for personal growth and improvement.
It's only as sexist as asking a man to have an emotional conversation with his wife after he spilled his guts in a therapy session. It's not sexist. It's asking a person to do something they don't feel comfortable doing just so you feel better about your relationship.
Here's an example of an individual difference: I don't need my SO to spill his guts to me about what's stressing him so I can feel close to him. I tell him I'm there for him if he needs me. I give him a neck rub, snuggle him, and if he wants to talk about it, he does. I listen. We make some love. He feels better. I don't feel distant from him at all. In fact I feel close to him because I know he trusts me and came to me of his own volition. I don't experience emotional distancing by accepting his personality.
You're presuming he actually spills his guts in therapy. He doesn't. He has no opinion or emotions in therapy. The therapist has to drag them out of him, and when she does it's like an epiphany for him. Like "wow, I didn't realize I felt this way".
Also, your example is completely irrelevant. You are presuming that your SO has the capability of even talking about it in the first place. Mine does not, and it eats away at him, so much so that it gives him anxiety. Big difference.
I was talking about the other lady's anger management therapy in that example. Everyone has opinions and emotions. They just don't all share them. I have been to plenty of therapists for myself and they are definitely helpful in defining emotions in a way that they can be described and spoken about, but they never created them for me.
I don't assume he has that capability...I just waited and saw. He went to his mental man-cave initially and came out when he was ready. Had he lacked it, my trying to force it wouldn't have helped at all anyway.
I can understand if a man really has anxiety because his emotional constipation is eating away at him, but in many cases, they are simply quiet and reflective whereas women are vocal and relative. Like you said--evolution. It's not just societal norms that create differences in males and females. It is actual brain anatomy. Perhaps I look at things differently as a physiologist and Taoist. To me, pain comes from wishing things were different. Instead I accept them or move on if they are absolutely contrary to my values. If my man wants quiet reflective time, I respect that, and I feel no different about our relationship because of it.0 -
Why do guys to the early flush thing?! Mine does it too, and of course there's pee bubbles. >:(
Main thing is when he gets home, he just strips down to his boxers and dumps all the clothes on the floor IN THE LIVING ROOM. And he's ULTRA sweaty! (electrical warehouse worker). Then our cat starts hauling all his socks off to her hiding spots and I have to go and hunt them down. -_(\
same here, even tho we have 4 dirty clothes baskets (1 in the bathroom, laundry room & bedrooms) and somehow his clothes seem to land in the floor of the livingroom or bedroom.
They land wherever you rip them off him in a fit of passion?0 -
Whenever he takes something out of it's package the package will set there. He never throws it away!! Drives me insane.0
-
You're presuming he actually spills his guts in therapy. He doesn't. He has no opinion or emotions in therapy. The therapist has to drag them out of him, and when she does it's like an epiphany for him. Like "wow, I didn't realize I felt this way".
Also, your example is completely irrelevant. You are presuming that your SO has the capability of even talking about it in the first place. Mine does not, and it eats away at him, so much so that it gives him anxiety. Big difference.
Yes yes! Mine suffers from anxiety from keeping it all in... causing the reason he is layed off for personal issues and in therapy until resolved. Not talking about feelings and things can be very horrible, for both people. Everyone has feelings, its teaching them to cope, or even express them that is the issue. Same as above, he doesnt just come talk if he feels like it. He doesnt know how, therefore he cant.0 -
My boyfriend does this annoying thing where he doesn't exist.0
-
You're presuming he actually spills his guts in therapy. He doesn't. He has no opinion or emotions in therapy. The therapist has to drag them out of him, and when she does it's like an epiphany for him. Like "wow, I didn't realize I felt this way".
Also, your example is completely irrelevant. You are presuming that your SO has the capability of even talking about it in the first place. Mine does not, and it eats away at him, so much so that it gives him anxiety. Big difference.
Yes yes! Mine suffers from anxiety from keeping it all in... causing the reason he is layed off for personal issues and in therapy until resolved. Not talking about feelings and things can be very horrible, for both people. Everyone has feelings, its teaching them to cope, or even express them that is the issue. Same as above, he doesnt just come talk if he feels like it. He doesnt know how, therefore he cant.
Coping and talking are not mutually exclusive, though. I can cope with my feelings in solitude without talking to a soul. And sometimes talking doesn't help at all. There's no hard and fast rule that you have to talk about things to feel better about them.
When a man goes through something stressful, like a job loss, it's a blow to his ego. He doesn't feel manly. Expecting him to relate like a woman makes him feel even less so. He wants to have a job and provide for his family again. He wants to feel manly and virile and important.0 -
My boyfriend does this annoying thing where he doesn't exist.
Just bother him about it until he gives in and starts existing better.0 -
Yeah, I probably should...it's best to train them early on, you know?My boyfriend does this annoying thing where he doesn't exist.
Just bother him about it until he gives in and starts existing better.0 -
You're presuming he actually spills his guts in therapy. He doesn't. He has no opinion or emotions in therapy. The therapist has to drag them out of him, and when she does it's like an epiphany for him. Like "wow, I didn't realize I felt this way".
Also, your example is completely irrelevant. You are presuming that your SO has the capability of even talking about it in the first place. Mine does not, and it eats away at him, so much so that it gives him anxiety. Big difference.
Yes yes! Mine suffers from anxiety from keeping it all in... causing the reason he is layed off for personal issues and in therapy until resolved. Not talking about feelings and things can be very horrible, for both people. Everyone has feelings, its teaching them to cope, or even express them that is the issue. Same as above, he doesnt just come talk if he feels like it. He doesnt know how, therefore he cant.
Coping and talking are not mutually exclusive, though. I can cope with my feelings in solitude without talking to a soul. And sometimes talking doesn't help at all. There's no hard and fast rule that you have to talk about things to feel better about them.
When a man goes through something stressful, like a job loss, it's a blow to his ego. He doesn't feel manly. Expecting him to relate like a woman makes him feel even less so. He wants to have a job and provide for his family again. He wants to feel manly and virile and important.
He lost his job because he WASNT providing for his family. I was. me and my 2 jobs were keeping us all a float while his anxiety turned to drug abuse, which turned to anger problems, which turned to my uncle firing him until he can get himself better. His 'ego' had issues because he created them. He chose to not provide for his family, and instead of talking about his feelings they bottled up and he looked for relief. Thus spending all his money on bad habits. His failure to talk about things lead to pain on both ends.
Now should our son and myself have to suffer forever because you think I should just let his emotions go? That is where I am indifferent. My situation may not be the same as the others, but I do believe there is power in talking through emotional battles.0 -
@songbyrd (we were bordering on quote abuse there)
"I don't assume he has that capability...I just waited and saw. He went to his mental man-cave initially and came out when he was ready. Had he lacked it, my trying to force it wouldn't have helped at all anyway."
I've been waiting and seeing for 5 years. Then I've tried to talk to him about it, we were both agreeing that something had to be done but we didn't know what. So now we are getting outside perspective. In your previous statements, there appears to be an interpretation of forcing or badgering on my part, which leads me to believe that you have a completely inaccurate view of the relationship dynamic I am describing. There was no force involved at any point, no nagging, nothing of the sort. We're trying to meet each other's needs even better that we already are, and didn't quite know how to go about it on our own.
"I can understand if a man really has anxiety because his emotional constipation is eating away at him, but in many cases, they are simply quiet and reflective whereas women are vocal and relative. Like you said--evolution. It's not just societal norms that create differences in males and females. It is actual brain anatomy. Perhaps I look at things differently as a physiologist and Taoist. To me, pain comes from wishing things were different. Instead I accept them or move on if they are absolutely contrary to my values. If my man wants quiet reflective time, I respect that, and I feel no different about our relationship because of it."
We're talking about nature v. nurture here, and we can't really know which came first. There are definite anatomical differences, for sure. Brain scans prove that. But in the west, there is also a societal expectation for the man to be strong, quiet and in control. Which came first? Who knows and who cares. We can only deal with it as it is. Also, you *are* assuming that your man, during his "quiet time" is reflecting, and he probably is, based on your accounts. And then he comes to you to deal with his emotions *in his own way*. That is communication and openness. What if he wasn't? What if he never processed his thoughts and feelings on his own, and never came to you for support? And to be clear, that looking for support doesn't mean coming to talk. It could mean coming for physical affection. Or whatever else. I never once said that I want my husband to communicate with me in the same way that I communicate with him. But I do want him to communicate with me and to connect with me. Do you see the difference?0 -
This is why I'm currently single.If you stop trying to force them to 'open up' and just let them know you're there IF they want to talk, they'll be much more willing to come to you. Just my experience in life and in books.0 -
@songbyrd (we were bordering on quote abuse there)
"I don't assume he has that capability...I just waited and saw. He went to his mental man-cave initially and came out when he was ready. Had he lacked it, my trying to force it wouldn't have helped at all anyway."
I've been waiting and seeing for 5 years. Then I've tried to talk to him about it, we were both agreeing that something had to be done but we didn't know what. So now we are getting outside perspective. In your previous statements, there appears to be an interpretation of forcing or badgering on my part, which leads me to believe that you have a completely inaccurate view of the relationship dynamic I am describing. There was no force involved at any point, no nagging, nothing of the sort. We're trying to meet each other's needs even better that we already are, and didn't quite know how to go about it on our own.
"I can understand if a man really has anxiety because his emotional constipation is eating away at him, but in many cases, they are simply quiet and reflective whereas women are vocal and relative. Like you said--evolution. It's not just societal norms that create differences in males and females. It is actual brain anatomy. Perhaps I look at things differently as a physiologist and Taoist. To me, pain comes from wishing things were different. Instead I accept them or move on if they are absolutely contrary to my values. If my man wants quiet reflective time, I respect that, and I feel no different about our relationship because of it."
We're talking about nature v. nurture here, and we can't really know which came first. There are definite anatomical differences, for sure. Brain scans prove that. But in the west, there is also a societal expectation for the man to be strong, quiet and in control. Which came first? Who knows and who cares. We can only deal with it as it is. Also, you *are* assuming that your man, during his "quiet time" is reflecting, and he probably is, based on your accounts. And then he comes to you to deal with his emotions *in his own way*. That is communication and openness. What if he wasn't? What if he never processed his thoughts and feelings on his own, and never came to you for support? And to be clear, that looking for support doesn't mean coming to talk. It could mean coming for physical affection. Or whatever else. I never once said that I want my husband to communicate with me in the same way that I communicate with him. But I do want him to communicate with me and to connect with me. Do you see the difference?
That makes more sense. Initially it sounded like you were looking for verbal communication because you were discussing opinions.
I have been with a man who wouldn't express any emotions. I left. He ended up with someone who apparently didn't mind. *shrug* I think I have an easy time of things these days because I don't stick with things that don't vibe with me on important levels. Instead of trying to change things I let the things change around me until they're good things and I keep them. So my experience is coming from a different place since I have been fortunate to have been found by a person who is someone I can fully accept.0
This discussion has been closed.
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