Pay a speeding ticket based on your income?
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As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!0 -
People are going to break the law no matter what. People in high places that can dream up these types of punishments are not out to try to get people to stop speeding or whatever the offense might be.....they are solely out to bring in more money. Like the seatbelt law. Who cares if I wear a seat belt or not? I believe it should be my right to wear one or not to wear one and no body's business if I do or not. But some fat cat out there with nothing else to do with their day dreamed up a fine to put on people if they are caught not wearing one...all in the name of safety?!?!?! NO WAY....all in the name of lining their pockets at my expense. These people could care less about safety,...its all about money and how they can take advantage of an opportunity to make more for themselves.
My 2 cents worth.
Why would you NOT want to wear a seatbelt?
It is in the governments best interests for you to wear it, not so they can fine you when you don't, but so when you crash, you take up less medical resource.
Do you not see how you killing yourself affects others? Road has to be closed and a full scale enquiry in place etc... People made late for where they are going to...all cos you're too selfish/dumb to wear something that is unobtrusive and is one of the biggest life savers there is...0 -
As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!
Well I hope Anders Behring Breivik enjoys himself.0 -
As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!
Well I hope Anders Behring Breivik enjoys himself.
That is just low! What a sad person you must be. I feel sorry for you.0 -
As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!
Well I hope Anders Behring Breivik enjoys himself.
wow... just wow... that was an interesting turn...
and on a side note: No, I don't believe in death penalty or hell hole prisons - even for people like him.
Will revenge and retribution ever make it right, or balance it out? No.0 -
One of the dumbest things I have seen on MFP. Why stop at speeding tickets? Let's impose these income-based penalties for everything. Oh, you make $200,000/yr, that Happy Meal will cost you $30. Oh, you only make $40,000/yr? That's gonna be $7.95.
When are the people of this great country going to realize that we are great because we provide a greater opportunity for people to be monetarily successful? This whole concept of the wealthy should support the poor is against the foundations of capitalism from which this country's success has been based. People, including our current administration, should go back to school and take a history class and an economics class.0 -
As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!
Well I hope Anders Behring Breivik enjoys himself.
wow... just wow... that was an interesting turn...
and on a side note: No, I don't believe in death penalty or hell hole prisons - even for people like him.
Will revenge and retribution ever make it right, or balance it out? No.
0 -
As a rape victim myself (becuase apparently that make my point more valid somehow) I would want less crime and less chance of the criminal re-offending and thus hurting someone else like he hurt me.
It should also be said that I work in a max. security prison, which is nothing like Bastøy. Bastoy is the last stop for criminals that have served most of their time, has shown good progress, has gone through therapy and rehabilitation programs and is getting ready to be released.
I'm not following your idea that prison is about retribution, to me prison is about keeping society safe by locking up the criminal and then keeping society safe again by rehabilitating the criminal so he/she will not commit crime again.
I don't see how anyone can support a prison system that doesn't work (when you look at numbers of inmates, reoffendig rates, violence and drugs inside prison etc) just because they feel like that will punish the inmate more. In the long run it punishes society way more.
This!!! Couldn't agree more!
Well I hope Anders Behring Breivik enjoys himself.
wow... just wow... that was an interesting turn...
and on a side note: No, I don't believe in death penalty or hell hole prisons - even for people like him.
Will revenge and retribution ever make it right, or balance it out? No. 0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
Edited by MFP Moderator0 -
People are going to break the law no matter what. People in high places that can dream up these types of punishments are not out to try to get people to stop speeding or whatever the offense might be.....they are solely out to bring in more money. Like the seatbelt law. Who cares if I wear a seat belt or not? I believe it should be my right to wear one or not to wear one and no body's business if I do or not. But some fat cat out there with nothing else to do with their day dreamed up a fine to put on people if they are caught not wearing one...all in the name of safety?!?!?! NO WAY....all in the name of lining their pockets at my expense. These people could care less about safety,...its all about money and how they can take advantage of an opportunity to make more for themselves.
My 2 cents worth.
But that's the point. Lots of people who have a lot of money DON'T have a problem paying the fine. So where's the deterrent to stop them from doing the infraction?No...this is simply not fair.
I should not have to pay more for the same infraction that someone else got simply because I make more money. That's not my problem and it's ridiculous.
You do the crime, you pay the fine. It's that simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
It's okay, you can come to NH we don't require you to wear your seatbelt.0 -
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
Completely agree. I grew up on a small farm in Upstate NY. I joined the Army to pay for college. I worked many jobs including pouring concrete along the way to get my education. Now I have a great position in a very large company that pays me a very nice salary. Am I rich- no, do I live comfortably- absolutely. That doesn't mean I am satisfied so I also teach as an adjunct professor at a local college. I continue to work hard even though I make a salary well above the national average because this country gives me the ability to continue to improve my station in life.0 -
One of the dumbest things I have seen on MFP. Why stop at speeding tickets? Let's impose these income-based penalties for everything. Oh, you make $200,000/yr, that Happy Meal will cost you $30. Oh, you only make $40,000/yr? That's gonna be $7.95.
When are the people of this great country going to realize that we are great because we provide a greater opportunity for people to be monetarily successful? This whole concept of the wealthy should support the poor is against the foundations of capitalism from which this country's success has been based. People, including our current administration, should go back to school and take a history class and an economics class.
And many of it's citizens.0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
AMEN!0 -
One of the dumbest things I have seen on MFP. Why stop at speeding tickets? Let's impose these income-based penalties for everything. Oh, you make $200,000/yr, that Happy Meal will cost you $30. Oh, you only make $40,000/yr? That's gonna be $7.95.
When are the people of this great country going to realize that we are great because we provide a greater opportunity for people to be monetarily successful? This whole concept of the wealthy should support the poor is against the foundations of capitalism from which this country's success has been based. People, including our current administration, should go back to school and take a history class and an economics class.
Bravo! *clapping loudly*0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
AMEN!
Another AMEN!0 -
basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Is tax wealth envy?0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
You live in a happy, idyllic little world, don't you? Good for you.
P.S.
You can't have a world in which everyone is capable of pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps but that is also "not fair" and not "played on a level playing field". Those two realities cannot coexist.
P.P.S.
I never said that I wanted to take away from those who have more. I said that it's in the best interest of those who have more to keep anyone from taking away from them, because there is a limited amount of wealth in the world, so for them to stay rich, someone else has to stay poor. It's a basic economic principle, not a criticism. I was trying to make a civil, logic-based argument, but, hey, name-calling it is.0 -
To be fair, we must consider that money is not the only thing of value that we have, and it is not the only form of sentence handed out to those who break the law. Community service and jail sentences attempt to deter crime by taking away your time.
How can it be fair to make people with more money pay higher fines without making people with more free time serve longer sentences? A week in jail costs a person with a job much more than it costs a person who does not work. Should jail and community service sentences be longer for the unemployed?0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
You live in a happy, idyllic little world, don't you? Good for you.
P.S.
You can't have a world in which everyone is capable of pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps but that is also "not fair" and not "played on a level playing field". Those two realities cannot coexist.
P.P.S.
I never said that I wanted to take away from those who have more. I said that it's in the best interest of those who have more to keep anyone from taking away from them, because there is a limited amount of wealth in the world, so for them to stay rich, someone else has to stay poor. It's a basic economic principle, not a criticism. I was trying to make a civil, logic-based argument, but, hey, name-calling it is.
I live in a reality-based world where, at least in the U.S., you can better yourself if you work at it. It's not fair and level because we are not all born into the same circumstances. We can, however, change our circumstances. You are not destined to poverty if you are born into poverty. You can rise above it. I did it, my wife did it, and countless others have done it. Unfortunately, the majority of people make the false assumption that they must be forever defined by the circumstances they are born into and resign themselves to the life that those circumstances afford.
Buy, hey, everybody cuts their own deal. If you choose to go through life complaining that you can't get ahead because of circumstances and inequalities, go ahead. That's exactly what you'll get. I learned early in life that complaining doesn't get you anywhere and that if I wanted better it was up to me to see that it happened.0 -
I completely disagree. Punishing people for being successful is a ridiculous concept.
I suppose that means you define "success" by the amount of money you make.
You assume incorrectly. Success can be measured in many ways. Money is just one of them, and it is not at the top of my list. However, since the entire premise of this argument is based upon how much money an individual makes, then yes, my use of the word "successful" refers to money in this instance.
I am by no means rich, but we do earn a comfortable income. It wasn't always that way. I started at the very bottom of my company in a blue collar position but, through hard work and dedication, have worked my way into a white collar position near the top of the company. Why should I be punished for that? I haven't changed since then. My paycheck just has a few more numbers.
Why don't we go to the other extreme? Why don't we raise the costs of speeding tickets and have an income requirement in place that in order to obtain a drivers license and own a vehicle you have to have a family income of $100,000 at minimum? Sounds ridiculous, right? But no more ridiculous than what is being proposed here.
Wealth envy is a very ugly thing. Hating on someone because they have more or looking down on someone because they have less is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you don't like your station in life, do something to change it.
First off, unless the person who gets a ticket is a millionaire, the difference between tickets on a percentage basis is likely going to be marginal at best.
Second, telling someone that, if they don't like being poor, they should do something to change it is all well and good when you're already at the top. There are certain inequalities within our society, though, so not everyone is actually given a chance to change their station. Women still only average 78 cents to a man's dollar (a great improvement over how things used to be, but still a ways to go).
Furthermore, wealth is a zero sum game, meaning there is a limited amount of money in the world, so in order for the people at the top to maintain their wealth and power, there must always be a larger number of people at the bottom. 50% of people in the US currently live below the poverty line. We have the second-highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. Unemployment is currently at 8.2% (5% unemployment is considered normal). It's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem.
Spare me this load of crap, please. If you live in the United States, you can change your station in life. You just have to want it enough and be willing to put in the work to do it. The problem is, most people who claim they can't just don't want to put in that work. People want to be paid and move up in life without breaking a sweat or getting their hands dirty and when it doesn't happen, they blame it on inequality or circumstances. That is complete and utter BS in most instances.
You say it's easy to say when you are already at the top. I'm assuming you are talking to me since you quoted me. First of all, I am not at the top. Just because I make a good living doesn't mean I'm rich and am sitting on top of an ivory tower. Most people aren't born into money. I grew up poor. I put myself through college working three jobs. When I got out, I started at the very bottom, busting my *kitten* for less than $20,000 per year. I've continued to bust my *kitten*, and it has helped me move up the ladder to a more comfortable position with a more comfortable salary. My wife has done the exact same. I'm not apologizing for it and I'll stand by my statement. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstances. And wanting to take away from those who have more than you is pathetic.
You want to stop speeding? Enact policies that are the same for everyone. Three strikes and your license is suspended for a year. Get caught on a suspended license, go to jail. Things like that. I don't care what you think, basing things on income is wealth envy, plain and simple, and it ugly.
Life is not fair and it is not meant to be played on a level playing field. If it was, where would the incentive be to ever do anything to better yourself?
You live in a happy, idyllic little world, don't you? Good for you.
P.S.
You can't have a world in which everyone is capable of pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps but that is also "not fair" and not "played on a level playing field". Those two realities cannot coexist.
P.P.S.
I never said that I wanted to take away from those who have more. I said that it's in the best interest of those who have more to keep anyone from taking away from them, because there is a limited amount of wealth in the world, so for them to stay rich, someone else has to stay poor. It's a basic economic principle, not a criticism. I was trying to make a civil, logic-based argument, but, hey, name-calling it is.
I live in a reality-based world where, at least in the U.S., you can better yourself if you work at it. It's not fair and level because we are not all born into the same circumstances. We can, however, change our circumstances. You are not destined to poverty if you are born into poverty. You can rise above it. I did it, my wife did it, and countless others have done it. Unfortunately, the majority of people make the false assumption that they must be forever defined by the circumstances they are born into and resign themselves to the life that those circumstances afford.
Buy, hey, everybody cuts their own deal. If you choose to go through life complaining that you can't get ahead because of circumstances and inequalities, go ahead. That's exactly what you'll get. I learned early in life that complaining doesn't get you anywhere and that if I wanted better it was up to me to see that it happened.
Sure. Reality. We'll go with that.
I mean, it's not like it's still legal in most states to fire people based upon things like sexual orientation or gender presentation or anything. Oh, wait...
P.S.
You keep making these assumptions that I actually want a significant amount of monetary wealth and that I'm unwilling to work hard in order to get it. Neither of these are true.0
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