Being Black
Replies
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i find that interesting too.
infact i noticed a lot of Americans use the term "African American" as if synonymous with black.To be "politically correct"
I am a black man,born in England.So calling me African American doesn't work for me,lol.As I'm not American.
Infact, i'm not African either since i have never been on the continent.We are also referred to as Afro-carribean because most black people that first came to England came over from the Caribbean.
its also begs the question,how come white people aren't called European Americans,but everyone else has to be categorized.
So true! Not all black people identify as being African... ALSO not all Africans are black.
I think the point he was making was that in England/Britain we don't have the same categorisation of ethnicity as you seem to in the States.
It seems that unless you are of Anglo-Saxon decent in the US, you have a category - Italian American, Irish American, African American etc. We don't have that. If you were born in the UK, you are British. That's it.
Yes... and I was agreeing with that
P.S. I'm not American0 -
i find that interesting too.
infact i noticed a lot of Americans use the term "African American" as if synonymous with black.To be "politically correct"
I am a black man,born in England.So calling me African American doesn't work for me,lol.As I'm not American.
Infact, i'm not African either since i have never been on the continent.We are also referred to as Afro-carribean because most black people that first came to England came over from the Caribbean.
its also begs the question,how come white people aren't called European Americans,but everyone else has to be categorized.
So true! Not all black people identify as being African... ALSO not all Africans are black.
I think the point he was making was that in England/Britain we don't have the same categorisation of ethnicity as you seem to in the States.
It seems that unless you are of Anglo-Saxon decent in the US, you have a category - Italian American, Irish American, African American etc. We don't have that. If you were born in the UK, you are British. That's it.
Yes... and I was agreeing with that
P.S. I'm not American
Ok! Misinterpretation of the written word! Glad we agree.0 -
People say "African-American" to be politically correct. The Associated Press Style Guide actually says you should use "black" in news articles, but every publisher I ever had would make us use AA instead because they were afraid of hate mail.
I don't think it was necessarily a rational fear, but you just never know who's going to take offense and who doesn't care. I hate it.0 -
Ok! Misinterpretation of the written word! Glad we agree.
:drinker:0 -
I've sat here for about 20 minutes reading this thread. This is insanely interesting to me. I have jumble of thoughts on this topic. I myself am half Mexican and half white, but I grew up in a predominately white town with just my white mother. (my father is mexican but had a heart attack when I was little and doesn't remember me anymore). I don't really care about race. It's just such a who the hell cares thing for me.
I however identify myself as Mexican racially. Not in the way I dress of talk or move or breathe because I don't think there is a difference in how I do anything versus how a "real" Mexican American girl would do anything. I identify myself as Mexican because I feel a connection to the side of my family that I no longer have. I don't randomly tell people I am Mexican, but if someone sees my last name and asks, I will tell them. Or on all the forms for jobs and school to check your race I check Mexican.
On another issue that has sprung up. I don't think we just just be "a man" or "a woman" we are always going to have qualifiers. Like "oh Susie? she's my blonde friend you know the one..." or anything like that. Personally I am known like this
: "Amanda... you know the one really short... really big boobs?"
at this point everyone goes "OHHHHH that Amanda!". To me I don't have a problem with this kind of thing. I think it would be silly leaving out a race when trying to describe someone. If I know 3 Danielle's and only one is black, when I describe her I am going to say she's black. If she's the only gay one I'm going to say
"Danielle the lesbian"
Thats not the only thing about her, nor is it even important. Sometimes these things are just adjectives. I personally would have no problem with someone saying
"Amanda the lesbian/Mexican/hobbit/nerd"
because I am all those things and more. But "Amanda the woman" doesn't really help when trying to remember someone or identify them.
If any of that makes any sense I commend you!0 -
People say "African-American" to be politically correct. The Associated Press Style Guide actually says you should use "black" in news articles, but every publisher I ever had would make us use AA instead because they were afraid of hate mail.
I don't think it was necessarily a rational fear, but you just never know who's going to take offense and who doesn't care. I hate it.
Interesting discussion about the terms. Just to clarify, I said black because I am British, not American, so African american is not relevant at all. Most people in the UK are settled on the term black, it is the correct one.On another issue that has sprung up. I don't think we just just be "a man" or "a woman" we are always going to have qualifiers. Like "oh Susie? she's my blonde friend you know the one..." or anything like that. Personally I am known like this
: "Amanda... you know the one really short... really big boobs?"
Interesting point, I have heard a few people trying to describe someone tiptoeing round these things. Is that right or wrong, idk. Unfortunately at the minute I weigh just under 400lbs so for a guy of only 5'7, I think people would say the big guy first, the probably say black after that. The maybe wearing glasses. Or gay. I don't know! I see what you mean though. I don't think people need to worry too much about describing people if it is factual and relevant. I think I'd rather people think of me as the black guy than the big fat guy!!
xxxx0 -
People say "African-American" to be politically correct. The Associated Press Style Guide actually says you should use "black" in news articles, but every publisher I ever had would make us use AA instead because they were afraid of hate mail.
I don't think it was necessarily a rational fear, but you just never know who's going to take offense and who doesn't care. I hate it.
Interesting discussion about the terms. Just to clarify, I said black because I am British, not American, so African american is not relevant at all. Most people in the UK are settled on the term black, it is the correct one.
Well, a black person in England wouldn't be African-American! lol But, in truth, every black person I know refers to him or herself as "black," not AA. I think it's a white guilt kind of thing, like we feel like calling them black is somehow insulting because of slavery. Somehow.
Another popular PC term here is "people of color," which my mother has often pointed out is just another way or saying "colored people," which is a very racist term going back to the Jim Crowe era. We play with language here a lot and get offended very easily. I do love my country, but I will readily admit there is plenty of room for improvement.
Another one is "Native American" vs. "Indian." Most of the "Native Americans" prefer to be called Indian, but white people just won't do it because they think it's offensive.0 -
We have that here a little bit. I sort of like it in a way, thought I'd still use black first. I know if sounds like coloured but it isn't; your mother is very sensitive but this term has a different background. because one thing, it comes FROM the people it describes, rather than used by other to label us. Plus PoC means 'all people who aren't white', so, black, asian, brown, etc. in recognition that their is a shared experience of people who aren't white, even if they are all different races. We could just say 'people who aren't white' but tht define people by what they are NOT rather than what they are. I quite like it in some contexts, eg. in my family is quite mixed, both ethnically and racially, so sometimes PoC sums it up well.
Another popular PC term here is "people of color," which my mother has often pointed out is just another way or saying "colored people," which is a very racist term going back to the Jim Crowe era. We play with language here a lot and get offended very easily. I do love my country, but I will readily admit there is plenty of room for improvement.0 -
We have that here a little bit. I sort of like it in a way, thought I'd still use black first. I know if sounds like coloured but it isn't; your mother is very sensitive but this term has a different background. because one thing, it comes FROM the people it describes, rather than used by other to label us. Plus PoC means 'all people who aren't white', so, black, asian, brown, etc. in recognition that their is a shared experience of people who aren't white, even if they are all different races. We could just say 'people who aren't white' but tht define people by what they are NOT rather than what they are. I quite like it in some contexts, eg. in my family is quite mixed, both ethnically and racially, so sometimes PoC sums it up well.
Another popular PC term here is "people of color," which my mother has often pointed out is just another way or saying "colored people," which is a very racist term going back to the Jim Crowe era. We play with language here a lot and get offended very easily. I do love my country, but I will readily admit there is plenty of room for improvement.
It probably has a different context outside of the US.0 -
We have that here a little bit. I sort of like it in a way, thought I'd still use black first. I know if sounds like coloured but it isn't; your mother is very sensitive but this term has a different background. because one thing, it comes FROM the people it describes, rather than used by other to label us. Plus PoC means 'all people who aren't white', so, black, asian, brown, etc. in recognition that their is a shared experience of people who aren't white, even if they are all different races. We could just say 'people who aren't white' but tht define people by what they are NOT rather than what they are. I quite like it in some contexts, eg. in my family is quite mixed, both ethnically and racially, so sometimes PoC sums it up well.
Another popular PC term here is "people of color," which my mother has often pointed out is just another way or saying "colored people," which is a very racist term going back to the Jim Crowe era. We play with language here a lot and get offended very easily. I do love my country, but I will readily admit there is plenty of room for improvement.
It probably has a different context outside of the US.
I don't think so, it was invented by black feminists in the USA. I'm not saying you have to use it or that everyone likes it, just saying it isn't the same as coloured people.0 -
My son gave me an interesting insight into our innate perception of race during the olympics. We were watching the athletics one evening and he was talking about "the white one". I eventually got him to point out who he was talking about, and he pointed to a black athlete, dressed in white. As a 7 year old he is completely unaware of the concept of race, so to him the defining feature was what they were all wearing. He just couldn't understand my confusion at all. He has friends of all backgrounds and has never given a moment's thought to skin colour, which is as it should be.0
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What does it mean to be black? Is it more than a race?
My 8yo son's best friend since birth is a 10yo black girl. She was adopted by my white friends when she was a baby and they are the only parents she's ever known. Clearly, she has always known that they are different. She doesn't want to be called black and white because she doesn't see those colors when she looks at herself or her parents. She prefers to be called brown because that is the actual color of her skin, and she refers to her parents as being beige.
I took my son to a museum and we were walking through an entire room devoted to pictures and stories about the Civil Rights Movement. As we were getting to the end, I told him that if these leaders (like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.) hadn't fought so hard for equality, he wouldn't be able to be friends with his best friend. He was having a hard time processing the whole thing from the beginning because, thankfully, racism makes no sense to him. But he was shocked by that statement. I said "We wouldn't be able to be friends with her, but even more sad, her parents wouldn't have been able to adopt her." And this is the best part, my friends. He looked at me, completely shocked, and said "She's adopted?!?!?"
I
color blindness!!! 0 -
I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing the colour of someones skin,lol.
Its thinking one is far superior than the other thats problematic.0 -
I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing the colour of someones skin,lol.
Its thinking one is far superior than the other thats problematic.
Perfect way to put it!
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To me being black isn't a choice. I am black and I am short and I am female. It's not the only thing I am but it's a part of who I am. It's the first thing some people notice about me. Some people may think less of me because of my race some idiots may think I'm better for it. I'm just me.0
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I suppose you are busy trying to just be 'a person' and other people are busy trying to promote their agenda.
If you are gay you are supposed to promote it, if you are black you must promote all things black, women must support women's rights, etc.
Unless you are comfortable being who you are and are not looking to blame others and take from others to make you whole.
If you are strong, secure, independent, then you can do whatever you want and you don't have to bow down to others who accuse you of not being black enough.
As a heterosexual white male I am not allowed to promote anything.
^ This!!!0 -
I don't often visit these forums, but this is an interesting discussion. Not because I face similar issues, but because I anticipate that my daughter might. My wife and I are both Caucasian and our 8 year-old adopted daughter is half Caucasian and half African American. She looks like an equal blend of her two birthparents - a 5'10" Norwegian woman from Washington State and a 6'5" African American man from Compton, CA (odd combo, I know, but they met while both playing college basketball. The other day at the beach my daughter was playing with a group of girls that she'd just met. I think they were siblings and they were all African American. I was holding the hand of one of my other daughter's (who is a mix of German, Native American, English and Filipino) when I walked down to the water to tell my daughter that it was time to go. One of my daughter's new friends who was about her age initiated the following conversation: "Is that your dad? - Yeah. Is that your sister? - Yeah. What color is your mom?" Regrettably, my daughter got distracted and didn't really hear or have the opportunity to answer the last question. My wife is of Scottish and Swedish and is technically peachish, orangish, pinkish, tannish in color with lots of freckles and strawberry blond hair, but I would have liked to know what "color" my daughter would have said her mom was. We live in a rather diverse neighborhood in Los Angeles where we and my daughter both have friends of a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds, including both African and African American, and my daughter loves and is constantly involved in both basketball and hip hop dancing, so she lives in a world not entirely devoid of "black" culture. (She can even do a spot-on impression of Gloria the Hippo from Madagascar - voiced by Queen Latifah - "Is that your friend, or is that your but?") Still, I can't help but wonder what issues of racial identity my daughter will face, both inwardly and socially, as she gets older. I've found these comments informative and I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other young women who might have grown up in similar circumstances.0
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A few people liked this post, I don't know if they meant the last line, I am still confused what straight white male needs promoted in particular.
Well said Britlocks!I understand tht colour blind thing, it is great that it isn't relevant to lots of people. But it doesn't mean pretending race and societies view of it has no impact on people,because it does. Plus, since there is nothing negative about being all different, surely we can notice that! :)xxx0 -
I absolutely adore this thread! I am actually extremely surprised that this conversation has gone on so maturely! That doesn't happen very often on MFP haha. ANYWAY, referring to the original post, I have dealt with this my ENTIRE life. I've been called an "oreo" and "white-washed" more times than I can count. I live in Orange County, California. The closest I have come to the ghetto is when I drop my Mom off at the hair salon that her best friend works at in Compton lol. That being said, why do some of my black friends say I'm trying to be something I'm not just because I don't really listen to hip-hop or speak ebonics? I've never been around it, so why would I do it? One of my friends is a black male. He grew up with me, both his parents are dentists, he goes to UCLA, and I know for a fact that he loves Kenny G lol. At the same time, he finds it necessary to talk/dress like a gangster and say n**ga every other word when we are out in public. To me, HE is the one that's pretending to be something he's not. Just because you are black, you do not have to dumb yourself down to meet other people's standards of what you're supposed to be. I've even heard of black kids trying to hide their school books for fear of people thinking they are trying to be white. So, only white people are supposed to want to learn?!?! It's insulting that majority of the things that people refer to as "black" are things that are "ghetto" and are concurrent with gang life and being uneducated. It's absolutely ridiculous to me that many black people have let society tell them that they are supposed to be ignorant and unsuccessful. The color of my skin should not define who I am as a person. I define who I am as a person and anyone that thinks otherwise can kiss my black behind lol.0
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WHAT IS IT THAT GOOD BLACKS ARE DOING THAT YOU ARE NOT DOING?0
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I absolutely adore this thread! I am actually extremely surprised that this conversation has gone on so maturely! That doesn't happen very often on MFP haha. ANYWAY, referring to the original post, I have dealt with this my ENTIRE life. I've been called an "oreo" and "white-washed" more times than I can count. I live in Orange County, California. The closest I have come to the ghetto is when I drop my Mom off at the hair salon that her best friend works at in Compton lol. That being said, why do some of my black friends say I'm trying to be something I'm not just because I don't really listen to hip-hop or speak ebonics? I've never been around it, so why would I do it? One of my friends is a black male. He grew up with me, both his parents are dentists, he goes to UCLA, and I know for a fact that he loves Kenny G lol. At the same time, he finds it necessary to talk/dress like a gangster and say n**ga every other word when we are out in public. To me, HE is the one that's pretending to be something he's not. Just because you are black, you do not have to dumb yourself down to meet other people's standards of what you're supposed to be. I've even heard of black kids trying to hide their school books for fear of people thinking they are trying to be white. So, only white people are supposed to want to learn?!?! It's insulting that majority of the things that people refer to as "black" are things that are "ghetto" and are concurrent with gang life and being uneducated. It's absolutely ridiculous to me that many black people have let society tell them that they are supposed to be ignorant and unsuccessful. The color of my skin should not define who I am as a person. I define who I am as a person and anyone that thinks otherwise can kiss my black behind lol.
Very well said. I totally agree with you. I think sometimes people forget that great grammar and an education is a sign of success and of being willing to work to improve oneself. It has nothing to do with being white. If that were the case, you wouldn't see so many different races who are educated. I've never understood why some people seem to think that being smart or speaking with good grammar are bad things. Definitely odd. You sound like you've grown up into a confident woman. It's kinda funny actually because I'm Spanish (ancestors from Spain - most recent Colombian) and yet everyone always looks so shocked when they discover I'm not Caucasian. As soon as I find that out they usually ask me how we make taco's which is where I calmly educate them that we don't make tacos. Sigh. There's so much ignorance out there.0 -
love this!!!! I have read all the comment on this thread.... and the one thing that we all agree on is that we are human.I absolutely adore this thread! I am actually extremely surprised that this conversation has gone on so maturely! That doesn't happen very often on MFP haha. ANYWAY, referring to the original post, I have dealt with this my ENTIRE life. I've been called an "oreo" and "white-washed" more times than I can count. I live in Orange County, California. The closest I have come to the ghetto is when I drop my Mom off at the hair salon that her best friend works at in Compton lol. That being said, why do some of my black friends say I'm trying to be something I'm not just because I don't really listen to hip-hop or speak ebonics? I've never been around it, so why would I do it? One of my friends is a black male. He grew up with me, both his parents are dentists, he goes to UCLA, and I know for a fact that he loves Kenny G lol. At the same time, he finds it necessary to talk/dress like a gangster and say n**ga every other word when we are out in public. To me, HE is the one that's pretending to be something he's not. Just because you are black, you do not have to dumb yourself down to meet other people's standards of what you're supposed to be. I've even heard of black kids trying to hide their school books for fear of people thinking they are trying to be white. So, only white people are supposed to want to learn?!?! It's insulting that majority of the things that people refer to as "black" are things that are "ghetto" and are concurrent with gang life and being uneducated. It's absolutely ridiculous to me that many black people have let society tell them that they are supposed to be ignorant and unsuccessful. The color of my skin should not define who I am as a person. I define who I am as a person and anyone that thinks otherwise can kiss my black behind lol.
History is very improtant for without it we could not see where we have been and where we are going. With that said the hardest thing I have trouble understanding is why when we in America which happens to be the biggest melting pot of all cultures in the world have been stired up boiled and blended to be a great culture is so afraid of what other think we should be like. It seems to me that when a group of people who happen to be trailer trash, ghetto, or what ever think that is the best life has to offer than these are the same people against others who are diffrent than themselfs and that is where the true discrimination in life is.0 -
Just enjoy and celebrate your multiculturalism. Don't allow your friend to fit you into any category 100% because you are a beautiful blend, just like a finely blended wine. Don't try to be all things to all people. Just decide what you want to be and be comfortable being you. Avoid narrow minded people who insist on putting you in a certain category. And if it happens again, tell them, yep, I'm a little of this, and a little of that, it's a beautiful thing, I hope you're okay with that and can accept me as a multicultural person.0
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This is a wonderful thread. I am so happy to see so many civilized intelligent people on one post that could possibly create a lot of controversy.. I think that in itself speaks on the subject in a way. At the end of the day.. we all share one common thing, no matter where we come from, what color we are or how much money we have.0
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I've even heard of black kids trying to hide their school books for fear of people thinking they are trying to be white. So, only white people are supposed to want to learn?!?! It's insulting that majority of the things that people refer to as "black" are things that are "ghetto" and are concurrent with gang life and being uneducated.
We have that problem in the UK too. One of my best friends is a secondary school teacher in a multi-ethnic school in a relatively deprived area. She has black kids in her class who she KNOWS are SO gifted, but she knows they don't perform to their best ability because of peer pressure. In their social group being good in school is NOT cool and can result in you being bullied and virtually outcast. She has one boy who she knows hands in substandard work to get a C-grade when she KNOWS that he knows all the answers and could have A-s, but when she tries to talk to him about it he shrugs his shoulders. It's really sad.0 -
I suppose you are busy trying to just be 'a person' and other people are busy trying to promote their agenda.
If you are gay you are supposed to promote it, if you are black you must promote all things black, women must support women's rights, etc.
Unless you are comfortable being who you are and are not looking to blame others and take from others to make you whole.
If you are strong, secure, independent, then you can do whatever you want and you don't have to bow down to others who accuse you of not being black enough.
As a heterosexual white male I am not allowed to promote anything.
^ This!!!
I agree0 -
the idea of race is predominately a social construction0
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the idea of race is predominately a social construction
^^This^^
and,
"If you fail to define yourself, you allow others to define you then judge you by there definition" A.R. Bernard.
A short history,
Currently live in a neighborhood that was once "white," it is now mostly black; however, it is changing back to "white," or mixed. (Nothing ever remains the same, economics will cause shifts). I was first called the stuck-up witch with a "B" because I sent my son to a school outside of our district (it was a better school and I got a zoning variance). I decided at the age of 35 I couldn't demand from my children something that I didn't have, an education, so I went off to college (dropped out of High School). I was then told I was a stuck-up Witch with a "B" who thought she was white. My response, I didn't know that to be black meant to be stupid and ignorant.
I have a B.S. in Accounting and a job. My youngest son is an engineer who has worked for Boeing, NASA (Space Shuttle) and is still in the aerospace industry. I still have an older son who took to the community's image of what is means to be black and is in and out of jail. Life is a choice, I chose differently. I still live where I live because children need to see an example of someone who is not where they are. We live what we know.0 -
I suppose you are busy trying to just be 'a person' and other people are busy trying to promote their agenda.
If you are gay you are supposed to promote it, if you are black you must promote all things black, women must support women's rights, etc.
Unless you are comfortable being who you are and are not looking to blame others and take from others to make you whole.
If you are strong, secure, independent, then you can do whatever you want and you don't have to bow down to others who accuse you of not being black enough.
As a heterosexual white male I am not allowed to promote anything.
^ This!!!
I agree
I am still wondering what it is about this, I am not knocking the rest of it, but surely not the last line there people are agreeing to, no?0 -
I've heard this before.
I guess the perception is if you are male, white and able bodied and not old, then you are part of the "ruling elite", for a better phrase, that have never experienced any discrimination and have no history of being disenfrenchised. You don't belong to any of the big "isms" like racism, sexism, ageism etc etc so some guys feel they can't voice an opinion on such matters without leaving themselves vulnerable to be shot down by someone saying "what the hell would you know?!"...
I kind of see the point, but sort of disagree with it too.0
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