"BLACK or AFRICAN AMERICAN" mainly a question...
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I'm not black, but have worked with a lot of black colleagues, and they all use the term 'black'. I'm in the UK, and 'black' is actually the politically correct term here at the moment. It didn't use to be, which is why some older people can look shocked when people say it - mostly older white people, I find, who generally don't actually know any black people. The term used to be 'coloured' here, but that was deemed offensive because it suggests that white is the default and everything else has a colour. A lot of white people also say 'dark', which to me is a bit of a meaningless word - a white person can be referred to as dark if they get a sun tan!
On equal opportunities forms, people can specify whether they are 'Black English', 'Black Irish', 'Black British', etc. A colleague once refused to fill it in because there was no option for simply 'Black' or 'Black African'.
Yep good ol' UK...btw you missed the other classic UK form option of 'Black Other'!! lol0 -
I think instead of white I want to be called German-American. I'm pretty proud of my pinkish color, huge bone structure, high tolereance for alcohol, and love of bratwurst! :drinker:
Du bist das Mädchen meiner Träume! Ich Liebe Dich! Prost!!!:drinker:
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I think instead of white I want to be called German-American. I'm pretty proud of my pinkish color, huge bone structure, high tolereance for alcohol, and love of bratwurst! :drinker:
^^ me too :drinker:0 -
:flowerforyou: Hello, Moderator here.
I just wanted to say I am very proud of everyone for having a decent conversation about a very touchy subject. Normally these are shut down by page 2, but I decided to moderate as it was going well.
Very few posts were deleted and that was only because they were not on topic.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
Thanks,
Arewethereyet
MFP Moderator
Happy to see my Urkel pic made the cut
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To me the whole idea of absolute race in the US is a little nutz. Aren't most of us racially mixed to some degree? What you are, "white" or "black", "Causasian" or African-American", is about a societal designation, more than your actual heritage, which is none of anyone's business unless you're into that kind of thing. Personally, as you can see from my profile picture, I am Pantone 11-1306 TPX in color, but what's unclear from that picture is that I have heritage from Northern Europe, Africa, North America, and I think the Middle East -- I just happened to end up super pale.
That said, I think when people are constantly giving you *kitten* about your apparent heritage or making a huge deal out of it, then you start to have to identify with it whether you want to or not, because you are forced by society to live in a fortress. And from that fortress, in addition to all the other crap of life you have to deal with, you must expend energy trying to educate people when they act like there's no actual brains in their head. I don't think anyone should have to do any of that, but it happens lots to all kinds of people. Or, if you have had to struggle to feel like it was okay to be some particular aspect of who you are, finding a way to be proud of that aspect of your identity can be super important if you want to find inner peace. I have total respect for people in both of those situations designating themselves however they so chose, but it feels to me like the most productive thing that I can do from my end is try to see individuals for who they are without seeing their "voting bloc" in front of the human they're showing themselves to be. Different if you're talking about an actual voting bloc or sociological stuff, but even then I think it's a good thing to have in your head somewhere.
If I'm picking someone out of a crowd, I try to use two descriptors (style, hair, personality, whatever) before resorting to skin color, and when I refer to skin color, I try not to do it in a way that assigns the person's social group. Someone might be super pale or super dark or kinda medium skin tone. If they then chose to tell me they identify as a member of some group, that's fine, but I'm leaving the identification to them as much as I possibly can. A little neurotic, maybe, but it's my exercise in mindful behavior and it feels fair to me. I'm a mom and before I was a mom I worked with kids. My time with kids has led me to believe that it matters a lot what kind of behavior and thinking we all model, and that is the best I could come up with for me.0 -
I call them "black people." It's not offensive at all.0
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I have several black friends and every single one of them hate the term "African American". They prefer the term "black" or even better just "American".
From my perspective "black" is a more accurate descriptor simply because that person may well be from Haiti, Jamaica, or any other place and not actually be "African American" and to refer to them as such would be very inaccurate as well as insulting to them.
As one of my close friends put it one night "I've never set foot in &$%#*&^ Africa! I'm an American!" His parents came here from Jamaica long before he was born.0 -
I prefer the term American....but that's just me 0
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if i had to label myself it would be german/irish/danish/cherokee american... I much prefer the Heinz 57 label... takes all the guess work out. Great Topic and good posts!!0
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Black works well for me. But then again that is the name I was born with. All joking aside, when I was growing up "Black" was the acceptable term. It was moving from "Colored" as the polite term. Maybe that never was polite but that is what I was told. I was born in the mid 60s so I was a child in the 70s. We frequently heard terms like "Black Power" and "Black is beautiful", which I particularly liked since Black is my last name. LOL! For me I usually continue to use the term "black" if I feel compelled to use any term at all. Usually I just refer to people as my friends and only add black as a description if it is absolutely unavoidable. I prefer to see everyone as part of the human race.
I am happy to use whatever would be comfortable for others but I honestly don't know anymore.0 -
As someone who is half black and has a Bachelor's degree in 'African American' Studies, I prefer being called black. I'm not from Africa, my father is not from Africa, his parents are not from Africa, etc.0
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I think it's mostly a generational thing....Ya know for the "older folks". I am 34 and I am black 0
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I say why does skin color matter? Why can't we all just be "American"??? I see people, not color. Just sayin....:-)
to some it does matter. but im tired of ppl hving to tip toe around me because they dnt want to b offensive. i mean dnt bark at them or anything...its just weird. and the funny thing is if im in a situation where i do hve to say "the black dude over there" everyone looks at me as if i cursed because everyone is on pin and needles about being "politically correct."
does it really hve to be this complicated. lol
I know what you mean. I have that a little bit too, because I am bisexual, and I get that sometimes. You're not a very fragile teacup balanced on a pin, about to go completely crazy at the slightest thing! But, on the other hand, from the outsiders perspective, I know I am too caught up in my life to accurately keep track of the many changing terms for various groups. So I just say someone's medium skin toned or dark skin toned or whatever.
I think sometimes what you may be seeing is people's confusion over the changing and various terms, too. So people might not always be going "OMG she said BLACK!" but rather thinking "hey, is that what I should say?" As a woman, I'm no expert on what is offensive to men, so if I hear something that surprises me about that from a man, I look up and think about it.0 -
I prefer Black, but I don't get bent all out of shape if someone refers to me as African American. It does bother me a bit that people (of many colors) seem to get perturbed when I simply call myself an American. White folks don't go around saying white American or Irish American, German American, etc. unless it is time for their cultural festivities or something. They just say American or white. I just say American or black. It's not a big deal, Americans come in all colors.0
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I prefer Black, but I don't get bent all out of shape if someone refers to me as African American. It does bother me a bit that people (of many colors) seem to get perturbed when I simply call myself an American. White folks don't go around saying white American or Irish American, German American, etc. unless it is time for their cultural festivities or something. They just say American or white. I just say American or black. It's not a big deal, Americans come in all colors.As someone who is half black and has a Bachelor's degree in 'African American' Studies, I prefer being called black. I'm not from Africa, my father is not from Africa, his parents are not from Africa, etc.
^This and ^this is awesome.
I'll admit, I didn't read all 17 pages (mostly because I assumed it would not be constructive since MFP usually doesn't do well with these potentially volatile topics (or even the seemingly benign)), but reading posts like these give me hope for humanity.0 -
As someone who is half black and has a Bachelor's degree in 'African American' Studies, I prefer being called black. I'm not from Africa, my father is not from Africa, his parents are not from Africa, etc.
Your post brings up another interesting topic. I know many people with both a black and white parent, and all of them identify themselves as black. Why?
Halle Berry is a celebrity example. I vividly remember her giving a speech along the lines of how proud she was about being black. Of course the network kept putting up shots of her white mother.0 -
I prefer Black, but I don't get bent all out of shape if someone refers to me as African American. It does bother me a bit that people (of many colors) seem to get perturbed when I simply call myself an American. White folks don't go around saying white American or Irish American, German American, etc. unless it is time for their cultural festivities or something. They just say American or white. I just say American or black. It's not a big deal, Americans come in all colors.
That is exactly how my friends feel too.0 -
Charlize Theron is an african american.
Good point.
And what about black people from Jamaica.... although I guess people from Jamaica are likely the ancestors of people from Africa.
And if we want to get REALLY technical, the first human remains were found in Africa I believe, so then aren't we all African-American/Canadian?0 -
I prefer Black, but I don't get bent all out of shape if someone refers to me as African American. It does bother me a bit that people (of many colors) seem to get perturbed when I simply call myself an American. White folks don't go around saying white American or Irish American, German American, etc. unless it is time for their cultural festivities or something. They just say American or white. I just say American or black. It's not a big deal, Americans come in all colors.As someone who is half black and has a Bachelor's degree in 'African American' Studies, I prefer being called black. I'm not from Africa, my father is not from Africa, his parents are not from Africa, etc.
^This and ^this is awesome.
I'll admit, I didn't read all 17 pages (mostly because I assumed it would not be constructive since MFP usually doesn't do well with these potentially volatile topics (or even the seemingly benign)), but reading posts like these give me hope for humanity.
I was excited and read up to pg 11 bc the commentary, for the most part, was very intelligent and offered light to each side. Of course the d-bags chimed in, so from pg 12-16 you did not miss much. I'm a HUGE pot of mixed, so I, like most everyone else who DID comment intelligently, appreciate people who are just sincere and not assuming 0 -
Not all English speaking Black people are American.0
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I'm Brown! 0 -
Charlize Theron is an african american.
I'm African American as well. Born and raised in South Africa, became an American citizen five years ago.
Never thought about that!!0 -
I feel like I'm being too PC if I use the word "African American" around black friends. They call themselves black, so I figure that's probably what they're comfortable with. And I don't have a problem being called white, so whatevs.0
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I just want to mention, as several people have said "White people don't refer to themselves as..."
Well, I refer to myself as Slavic. My immediate family is only 2 generations away from the generation that came to the Americas from Poland/Lithuania. I'm sure some people would call me ridiculous but... some of us "white people" really do embrace our heritage all the time, not just during cultural festivities.
Personally, the color thing is a sad societal thing, because people make assumptions based on the skin tone. My family wasn't even involved in slave trading, yet I have had more than one person that has a tenuous relation to a past slave get on my case solely because of my skin color. I also don't think those people would particularly like it if a white person referred to their slave ancestry (yes, white slaves did exist)... Or to be forced to acknowledge that many traders were in fact African themselves.
It reminds me... I have a degree in Ethnic, Cultural, and Gender literature with a minor in Psychology. During my studies, I took several different types of classes focusing on various folklore and autobiographical type writings. It blew my mind how often arguments would occur in those classes... Not because I'm naive to Nebraska small town mentalities... but because most were classes for people focusing on the same area of study... And there was a distinct lack of sensitivity. However, taking African American literature was by far the worst. The content was great, but the professor was literally offended by my enthusiastic and active conversation role in class discussions, and emailed me to tell me to keep my mouth shut.
Anyway, just thinking in these late hours... We all have different experiences and understandings, shaped by the world we have personally known, so I think really the lesson I will teach my children is think before you act. If someone uses a word that hurts you, think before getting mad because sometimes there was no ill-intention. If we bolster this type of understanding from the get-go, instead of saying get mad, and fight for the honor, I think children would be happier and we'd eventually not have discussions like this one...0 -
Maybe people think that if they are called "African-American" they automatically think they are from Africa. Your really not Black...we should call you brown. White people should not be called white, they should be called tan. And then Asians, Why aren't they called Yellow people? Hmm..they mysteries of the world...
looking around for some Yellow people....
Lol! Right here!
Also, where im from, white people turn pink or red...not tan. Most asians actually tan very well and can be china doll white, yellow or tan and Polynesians and Hawaiians tan super dark and could be called brown or black too.
Anyways, back to the OP, we typically say "black." (Hawaii)0 -
My first husband is Nigerian and we lived in New Zealand, someone desperate not to offend him by saying black, described him as African American, I said politely "He's never been to America, he's African-African" ... When I started laughing, my husband said said "I'm Nigerian! But Nigeria is in Africa."
Our friends who had a Nigerian father and their mother was from New Zealand, would call themselves Afro-kiwis. I liked that 0 -
As someone who is half black and has a Bachelor's degree in 'African American' Studies, I prefer being called black. I'm not from Africa, my father is not from Africa, his parents are not from Africa, etc.
Your post brings up another interesting topic. I know many people with both a black and white parent, and all of them identify themselves as black. Why?
Halle Berry is a celebrity example. I vividly remember her giving a speech along the lines of how proud she was about being black. Of course the network kept putting up shots of her white mother.
That stems from the "one drop" rule. If you had one drop of black blood, you were black. Your great great grandpappy was black, but one of your parents is white while the other could pass for white? Too bad, so sad, now that we know you can't work here, live there, or use that fountain. That was a hard and fast rule and it gets followed to this day, even though there is no need for it.
Personally I'm black. Was born black and will die black. Changing the name on forms I fill out doesn't change me. I know who I am, I know who my parents raised and I will always carry myself appropriately.0 -
Well.....cut a black guy, his blood is red.....cut a white, yellow, brown, red guy, their blood is red too. So from my perspective, We're all the same color on the inside. Of course from a sexual point of view, all my black female friends would always tell me, "once you try black, yull neva go BACK. Always made me laugh.
edited for spelling.....sheesh, it's late.0 -
I'm from england and it's really weird we have this thing where we call black people who were born here 'english'.
anyone else heard of this?0 -
Normally when I'm around all my black friends I prefer that my black friends specifically refer to me as a Honky-*kitten* Cracka.
But that's just me....lol.
OP, I'm sorry....you're asking an honest question and I'm just being a smart-*kitten*. It's late and I'm exhausted. I love everyone, I don't care what color you are. You treat me right, I'll treat you right.0
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