Meat eater, vegetarian or vegan?? Which are you?

t1nk6

love my meat

JusticeGirl25

Gotta have meat, come on....

owieprone

omnivore, to a point, i don't sea food. originally because i can't stand the taste, smell or texture of most of it and some of it makes me ill (too oily makes me quesy). I very rarely eat tuna (lmao, i know! shhh) but only if its fresh or in brine.

having done marine bio at uni, i now would't eat it even if i find (somehow) that i like it. one of the MOST environmental damaging industries in the world. I love folk that line and pole catch their own stuff or for selling, anything sustainable that doesn't use a dragger or dredger is great. big industry tho.. can do without that. I also know now what's in most seafood... i'd rather eat quorn.. and that's saying something.

I, very rarely, eat tuna (i know, shhh! lmao).

i only let my husband eat fish if i know where it's from (i.e. when in oban, the restaurants there are selling local grown seafood).

i did try and eat a fried scorpion once.. bottled at the last minute! i want to try guinea pig, rat, snake and other odd things... whether given the chance i'll actually go through with it though is another matter.

Graelwyn, did someone tell you you needed to eat meat for strength training, or personal choice due to lack of good shops/choice? I know a boxer who is vegetarian and has no problems with any part of his training.

owieprone

Veg. This is why

"if everybody in the UK changed their current eating habits to a vegetarian or vegan diet, greenhouse gas emissions savings would be equivalent to a 50 per cent reduction in exhaust pipe emissions from the country's entire passenger car fleet."

http://www.scienceomega.com/article/188/vegetarian-diet-could-considerably-reduce-carbon-footprint
http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/food-carbon-footprint-diet

what would happen to all the cattle? and the farmers who farm them? some aren't mixed farmers. Also arable farming is quite damaging in itself (pesticides, the amount of land required), and still has farmed and be transported to become the end product, it is labour intensive without modern fuelled machinery and weather dependant. It's not quite as clean cut as most people think.

also humans are omnivores, that we can survive as vegetarians or pescatarians etc is because we're omnivores. we have the ability to eat almost anything because that's how our bodies have evolved. however, just because we can doesn't mean we have to. everyone should have the choice to eat what they want. I eat a lot of vegetarian meals, because it keeps my food bills down, i buy in bulk from the local butcher and freeze what i'm not using so i don't waste. And we should all be open to reading about different ways of feeding, like your great links.

What we need to change is what we buy, how it's reared/grown and how it's killed/processed. Buy local from a butcher you trust who knows the farmers and the slaughterhouse his products go to, buy only what's in season and from the country or county (if possible) that you live in. BE mindful of the food you eat and were it comes from, rock salmon is SHARK, spiny dogfish to be exact, it's endangered and like most sharks slow growing and slow to reproduce, most imported shrimp from asia is farmed and full of chemicals (colouring and nasty pesticides that are banned here, read Taras Gresco's - Dead Seas). Not to mention the old horse flesh fiasco that we've just had in the UK, nothing wrong with eating horse of course, as long as you know its not shot full of steroids and wasn't stuck in a barn being fed processed rubbish instead of real food etc etc.

daffodilsoup

" what right does man have over the life of that animal"

The fact that we domesticated them for that purpose, that we spend the money, time and effort to raise them for that purpose. The fact that humans are the dominant species, and because we can and we want to. There's no other answer needed. We are talking about MEAT animals, which we own, over which we have the power of life and death. NOT wildlife. .I don't see any "ethical" problem here. Enough of this pointless argument, I have to go feed my ducklings, so they'll grow up strong, healthy, and be ready for roast duck in the fall.

That's awfully convenient - because we decided they were for slaughtering, and because we want to. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a stronger example of human selfishness and greed.

ETA: I can't help but feel like pulling the "this argument is dumb, I'm going to go eat a burger/feed my ducklings for a duck roast/fry some bacon/etc is kind of a child-like cop out. I can't control you, and ultimately, you are going to do what you want, so really there's no argument here, just an exchange of ideas. The closed-mindedness and stubbornness of the way you've responded to it though, is what is bothersome.

VeganCoco

" what right does man have over the life of that animal"

The fact that we domesticated them for that purpose, that we spend the money, time and effort to raise them for that purpose. The fact that humans are the dominant species, and because we can and we want to. There's no other answer needed. We are talking about MEAT animals, which we own, over which we have the power of life and death. NOT wildlife. .I don't see any "ethical" problem here. Enough of this pointless argument, I have to go feed my ducklings, so they'll grow up strong, healthy, and be ready for roast duck in the fall.

That's awfully convenient - because we decided they were for slaughtering, and because we want to. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a stronger example of human selfishness and greed.

ETA: I can't help but feel like pulling the "this argument is dumb, I'm going to go eat a burger/feed my ducklings for a duck roast/fry some bacon/etc is kind of a child-like cop out. I can't control you, and ultimately, you are going to do what you want, so really there's no argument here, just an exchange of ideas. The closed-mindedness and stubbornness of the way you've responded to it though, is what is bothersome.

^^ This, a million times this. Vegan for life - no food with a family.

terlyn20

i eat meat, fish - everything- personally for me i feel it is afront to G-D to refuse to eat whatever he has provided. i enjoy most all foods and receive them with THANKS! I am over 50 and have no health problems, blood work done last fall was perfect, BP is normal etc. My meat eating parents are both very healthy. when we refer to my mom we say " she is healthy as a fatting hog!"

however, i begrudge no one for follow their own consience and hope to get the same respect. You eat what you want and enjoy and i will do the same.

terlyn20

might add, husband hunts so we eat turkey, deer alligator, squirrel and rabbits from the back yard and road kill if it is fresh enough.

daffodilsoup

i eat meat, fish - everything- personally for me i feel it is afront to G-D to refuse to eat whatever he has provided. i enjoy most all foods and receive them with THANKS! I am over 50 and have no health problems, blood work done last fall was perfect, BP is normal etc. My meat eating parents are both very healthy. when we refer to my mom we say " she is healthy as a fatting hog!"

however, i begrudge no one for follow their own consience and hope to get the same respect. You eat what you want and enjoy and i will do the same.

The issue with those who consume meat wanting their choice to be "respected" is that it implies that there is no "other" in the situation. Ultimately, eating meat causes harm - that's why those who are morally opposed to consuming meat have difficulty "respecting" a choice that causes suffering.

degausser234

I like to say that I am a part-time vegetarian. I mostly don't buy/cook meat because I don't have the budget for it and I don't really have the time to defrost and prepare it.
However I'll eat chicken or fish maybe once or twice a week and red meat only when I go out to eat and am craving it (maybe once every month or two)

I do notice a huuuge difference in the way I feel when I don't eat red meat. Not too long ago I moved back home for two weeks, my dad is a big meat eater (eats it for almost every meal) and he cooked a lot of the meals while I was there. I have to say I felt so sluggish and tired, I just felt like I was weighed down and trudging through my day.

I find people argument about not getting enough protein on a vegetarian diet completely silly. You can get great protein from other sources besides from animals, you just have to do your research!

tinylightsbelow

I am a vegan for animal-rights reasons. I believe that our current system of farming animals is abusive. That said, I understand that everyone has their own ideas on morality and I do not wish to impose my moral system on anyone.

ice1200s

I'm a carnivore through and through!!

RllyGudTweetr

i eat meat, fish - everything- personally for me i feel it is afront to G-D to refuse to eat whatever he has provided. i enjoy most all foods and receive them with THANKS! I am over 50 and have no health problems, blood work done last fall was perfect, BP is normal etc. My meat eating parents are both very healthy. when we refer to my mom we say " she is healthy as a fatting hog!"

however, i begrudge no one for follow their own consience and hope to get the same respect. You eat what you want and enjoy and i will do the same.

The issue with those who consume meat wanting their choice to be "respected" is that it implies that there is no "other" in the situation. Ultimately, eating meat causes harm - that's why those who are morally opposed to consuming meat have difficulty "respecting" a choice that causes suffering.

That's an implication I do not read into asking a personal choice to be respected, regardless of how much animal protein the speaker consumes; it may be one you infer from a request that you respect someone else's choice, but that's different.

Are you saying that farming fruits and vegetables, seeds and nuts, causes no harm to the environment? That's an. . . interesting position to take.

daffodilsoup

That's an implication I do not read into asking a personal choice to be respected, regardless of how much animal protein the speaker consumes; it may be one you infer from a request that you respect someone else's choice, but that's different.

I'm not sure I understand what's being said here?

Are you saying that farming fruits and vegetables, seeds and nuts, causes no harm to the environment? That's an. . . interesting position to take.

No, that is not what I'm saying. By simply existing and doing the bare minimum for human survival, yes, we as a species cause harm to the environment. The idea though, is causing as little suffering and harm as possible.

But eating meat involves a DIRECT other - causing unnecessary pain and suffering directly and knowingly to another being that is capable of suffering and feeling pain. Considering people can thrive on plant-based diets, this suffering is caused unnecessarily.

tinylightsbelow

RllyGudTweetr, I think what they were trying to say is that vegans and vegetarians see animal consumption as unethical because it harms an animal. So it is difficult for many of us to 'respect' the decision of a meat eater because we inevitably think of the animal as well. Vegetarians/vegans generally see animals as of equivalent worth to humans so the death of an animal is a tough pill to swallow for something that does not seem necessary.

Gwen_B

I don't eat red meat.

In general, red meats (beef, pork and lamb) have more cholesterol and saturated (bad) fat than chicken, fish and vegetable proteins such as beans. Cholesterol and saturated fat can raise your blood cholesterol and make heart disease worse. Chicken and fish have less saturated fat than most red meat. The unsaturated fats in fish, such as salmon, actually have health benefits. Omega-3 fatty acids, found in fish and some plant sources, may reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease.
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/WeightManagement/LosingWeight/Eat-More-Chicken-Fish-and-Beans-than-Red-Meat_UCM_320278_Article.jsp

MaepleT95

Omnivore:)

SanteMulberry

I'm pretty much an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I do eat a bit of fish and the occasional meat dish (and I try to get both of them sourced as fresh and pure as I can on those occasions). Red meat seems to cause a flare in my arthritis, so I limit it to once a week (at the most) and it is difficult to get fish that meets my criteria, so I do the best I can. The rest of the time, I get my protein needs met with free-range, organic eggs and organic cheeses, whey protein (I use New Zealand whey from grass-fed cows--no hormones or antibiotics) and legumes and nuts. I also tend to run naturally high iron levels, so red meat is a no-no for me, from that angle, as well.

ETA: And I do eat a bit of organic chicken. I definitely do NOT see animals as of equal worth to people but I believe they should be treated in an ethical fashion. I would never knowingly eat anything from a factory-farmed animal. The sooner we get those kinds of hell-holes closed down, the better.

SanteMulberry

That's an implication I do not read into asking a personal choice to be respected, regardless of how much animal protein the speaker consumes; it may be one you infer from a request that you respect someone else's choice, but that's different.

I'm not sure I understand what's being said here?

Are you saying that farming fruits and vegetables, seeds and nuts, causes no harm to the environment? That's an. . . interesting position to take.

No, that is not what I'm saying. By simply existing and doing the bare minimum for human survival, yes, we as a species cause harm to the environment. The idea though, is causing as little suffering and harm as possible.

But eating meat involves a DIRECT other - causing unnecessary pain and suffering directly and knowingly to another being that is capable of suffering and feeling pain. Considering people can thrive on plant-based diets, this suffering is caused unnecessarily.

Not long ago, there was an interesting TED lecture, where the naturalist giving the lecture, startled the audience by insisting that there is much more harm to the environment from the removal of large herds of grazing animals. (No, he wasn't paid by the meat producers to say so.) He said that one of the worst mistakes made in Africa was the culling of large herds of elephants and the environmental degradation (increased desertification) that occurred as a result. In areas where they have brought back grazing animals, the desert was pushed back. In N. America, when the white settlers arrived here, the Plains were lush with thick green grasses that the tremendous herds of buffalo grazed on. When the government killed off the buffalo herds (in an attempt to starve out the Plains Indians) the Plains became increasingly desertified. We need grazing animals and so does the earth.

melindasuefritz

meat eater

lpina2mi

I am an Omnivore in the vein of B.Kingsolver and M.Pollan: mostly organic locally grown plants rounded out with legumes, nuts & seeds, fish, some whole grains, plus fruit, dairy & eggs, and a little meat--especially stocks. There is not much room for homemade sweets or salty snacks-but there is a wee bit of room. I left.no room for drive-up fast food or sodapop.

ohpretty

More or less a vegetarian, although I don't make it a point to be. I don't mind eating meat I just can't remember the last time I had it. I mostly eat eggs, almonds, and other stuff for my protein.

SanteMulberry

Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?

daffodilsoup

Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?

Can you provide a source/study on the statement that men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish or eggs?

When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research.

In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate.

SJVZEE

My order of food, based on how much I eat them-

1. beef and pork
2. veggies and mushrooms
3. eggs
4. dairy (cheese, butter and plain Greek yogurt)
5. fruit
6. misc stuff

SanteMulberry

Interestingly, in some of the traditional cuisines of China and India, women do not eat meat (among those cuisines that include meat--and a surprising number of them do). Men do not seem to fare as well on a diet that excludes meat, fish, or eggs. There are those men who seem to thrive on vegan diets, but vegan male athletes seem to eat enormous amounts of food in order to meet their protein requirements which begets the question of: This benefits the environment, how?

When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research.

In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate.

"...When people don't pay attention to their nutrient intake, it's easy for them to come consistently under in protein, vitamins and minerals - whether they eat animal products or not. Protein is not difficult to get from a plant-based diet, you just need to do your research..."

And that's just the problem, isn't it? How many people have the knowledge to combine vegetable proteins to get the proper mix of proteins to make complete proteins? Nature has conveniently provided complete proteins in animal sourced protein. There is the additional problem of exclusively plant-based diets containing large amounts of phytic acid and that phytic acid interferes with mineral absorption. The minerals in animal products are very bioavailable.

"...In regard to the environment - a vegan athlete consuming a large amount of food will ultimately consume less resources than an athlete who consumes large amounts of meat, eggs and dairy, as we factor in not only the plant matter that the athlete himself eats, but also the resources that it takes to get the meat, eggs and dairy to his plate..."

I wouldn't be so quick to assert that. Grazing animals are often raised on marginal farm land or land that is otherwise simply not suitable for crop growing. Animals are grazed on land in areas with growing seasons that are too short for most crops or even on semi-desert land. When you account for the fact that crop-growing requires prime farm land, the draining of aquifers and LOTS of chemicals to make raising them efficient, it is not at all clear that what you have said is anything other than vegan propaganda. There is also the problem of monoculture of crops that could lead to dire circumstances one day--especially when combined with the cultivation of genetically modified plants.

Morn66

To continue on the "sentience" thing from the other thread, someone said this:

Do your research. Sentient doesn't mean able to feel. It means capable of self-awareness, abstract thinking, the ability to REASON, not just learn. VERY few animals ( maybe cetaceans) outside of the great apes. Biology/Science 101. And I'm not trying to "make myself feel better about it", because I'm a firm believer in using/raising/killing animals for food. I've killed and cleaned my share of meat for the table, and I feel just fine about it.

Nope. What you're talking about is sapience, which is entirely different from sentience. Sapience means the ability to be self-aware and to reason, etc. It shares the same root as our species name, sapiens. (As in, Homo sapiens.) The great apes and the cetaceans most certainly are sapient, as are elephants. Other animals...Who knows, really? The tests done for sentience are decidedly biased, judging another species to be "sapient" in general only if it's "like us." In the sense that, since we think we're sapient, then for another species to be considered sapient it must have "human-like" qualities in terms of being able to learn, react, self-recognize, and communicate. And that ain't necessarily so. For all we know, worms are sapient, but just not in any way that we'd recognize.

Sentience on the other hand is "merely" the ability to experience and react to sensory input like visual and auditory input, the ability to distinguish tastes, the ability to smell and distinguish different scents, the ability to distinguish temperature, and indeed the ability to feel pain. (The concept of suffering, on the other hand, is relative and highly subjective.) Pretty much ALL animals are sentient, with the possible exception of things like sponges and jellyfish. In fact, many animals are "more sentient" than humans are, in that they can see, hear, smell, and generally detect and interpret sensory input way better than we can.

So...Do YOUR research. And don't listen to Star Trek; the writers of that show get this wrong ALL the time. (Note: Not coming down on you; it's a common mistake. But you ARE wrong when you say that animals aren't sentient. All of the ones that we use as food, domesticated or otherwise (including fish and critters like lobsters and squid and insects), are indeed sentient, and they most certainly feel pain when killed/slaughtered, however briefly.)

All that said...I am a vegan, but not for any ethical reasons. I have recently been diagnosed with both heart and liver failure, thanks to 42 years of living with a faulty-from-birth aortic valve in my heart that no one bothered to diagnose properly until a few months ago. As a result of the enlarged and failing liver, my doctor advised jettisoning all animal protein from my diet, as animal proteins are harder for the liver to digest. Also, I have to severely limit sodium. So...here I am. It was a relatively easy transition for me, since I'd been ovo-lacto vegetarian pretty much all my life because I simply never liked the taste/texture of meat and refused to eat it. I thought I'd miss cheese, but I don't. The only thing I've found I'm missing is my daily yogurt. I tried an almond-milk one the other day, and it was icky. I'm also avoiding soy, so I'm looking for a non-icky yogurt made from rice milk or maybe coconut milk, but haven't found any in the grocery store. (Not surprising, as I live in the middle of nowhere in Ranch Land, where meat and potatoes reign supreme.) So I suppose I'll have to cave and go to the "local" health food store. Which is a haul away and really, really expensive, but...I want yogurt, dangit! :laugh:

Mslmesq

Pescetarian flexatarian. :-)

Mslmesq

To continue on the "sentience" thing from the other thread, someone said this:

Do your research. Sentient doesn't mean able to feel. It means capable of self-awareness, abstract thinking, the ability to REASON, not just learn. VERY few animals ( maybe cetaceans) outside of the great apes. Biology/Science 101. And I'm not trying to "make myself feel better about it", because I'm a firm believer in using/raising/killing animals for food. I've killed and cleaned my share of meat for the table, and I feel just fine about it.

Nope. What you're talking about is sapience, which is entirely different from sentience. Sapience means the ability to be self-aware and to reason, etc. It shares the same root as our species name, sapiens. (As in, Homo sapiens.) The great apes and the cetaceans most certainly are sapient, as are elephants. Other animals...Who knows, really? The tests done for sentience are decidedly biased, judging another species to be "sapient" in general only if it's "like us." In the sense that, since we think we're sapient, then for another species to be considered sapient it must have "human-like" qualities in terms of being able to learn, react, self-recognize, and communicate. And that ain't necessarily so. For all we know, worms are sapient, but just not in any way that we'd recognize.

Sentience on the other hand is "merely" the ability to experience and react to sensory input like visual and auditory input, the ability to distinguish tastes, the ability to smell and distinguish different scents, the ability to distinguish temperature, and indeed the ability to feel pain. (The concept of suffering, on the other hand, is relative and highly subjective.) Pretty much ALL animals are sentient, with the possible exception of things like sponges and jellyfish. In fact, many animals are "more sentient" than humans are, in that they can see, hear, smell, and generally detect and interpret sensory input way better than we can.

So...Do YOUR research. And don't listen to Star Trek; the writers of that show get this wrong ALL the time. (Note: Not coming down on you; it's a common mistake. But you ARE wrong when you say that animals aren't sentient. All of the ones that we use as food, domesticated or otherwise (including fish and critters like lobsters and squid and insects), are indeed sentient, and they most certainly feel pain when killed/slaughtered, however briefly.)

All that said...I am a vegan, but not for any ethical reasons. I have recently been diagnosed with both heart and liver failure, thanks to 42 years of living with a faulty-from-birth aortic valve in my heart that no one bothered to diagnose properly until a few months ago. As a result of the enlarged and failing liver, my doctor advised jettisoning all animal protein from my diet, as animal proteins are harder for the liver to digest. Also, I have to severely limit sodium. So...here I am. It was a relatively easy transition for me, since I'd been ovo-lacto vegetarian pretty much all my life because I simply never liked the taste/texture of meat and refused to eat it. I thought I'd miss cheese, but I don't. The only thing I've found I'm missing is my daily yogurt. I tried an almond-milk one the other day, and it was icky. I'm also avoiding soy, so I'm looking for a non-icky yogurt made from rice milk or maybe coconut milk, but haven't found any in the grocery store. (Not surprising, as I live in the middle of nowhere in Ranch Land, where meat and potatoes reign supreme.) So I suppose I'll have to cave and go to the "local" health food store. Which is a haul away and really, really expensive, but...I want yogurt, dangit! :laugh:

Um, kudos for having a doctor with a brain in their head willing to give u good advice that goes against big pharm. two thumbs up!

Mslmesq

I am an Omnivore in the vein of B.Kingsolver and M.Pollan: mostly organic locally grown plants rounded out with legumes, nuts & seeds, fish, some whole grains, plus fruit, dairy & eggs, and a little meat--especially stocks. There is not much room for homemade sweets or salty snacks-but there is a wee bit of room. I left.no room for drive-up fast food or sodapop.

Thumbs up! :-)