Diet and Exercise vs. Surgery. Thoughts?
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you know what...shame on every person that ever accepted an aid out there for moving on with their life.
shame on the person that needed an anti depressant to move on in their life,
shame on the person that needed methadone to successfully kick a drug habit,
shame on the person that had to use inhalers to help get their asthma under control.
shame on the person that accepted the help of a painkiller during a painful healing situation..
shame on the person that accepted rehab after an accident..
just shame....
but yet, IF people accepted those aids and IF people came out of the other side successfully and with full faculty and became fully active contributing members of society we laud them for the troubles, we laud them for their fight and their battle and the ensuing victory over their demon that they had to overcome...
yet we find it within ourselves to judge others WE (who have not truly been in their shoes) feel are not worth any pride, or self satisfaction or good feelings....
personally the judgments I see in this thread about how a person that has had a surgery isn't entitled to EVER feel good about themselves is disgusting...
I couldn't have said it any better!0 -
I personally know someone who had it. She said it was life changing for her. She goes to the doctor more then anyone I know, has constant issues eating enough protein, and will take monster horse vitamins for the rest of her life in order to avoid becoming malnourished. She also still has to resort to 'quick fix' diets in order to take off those stubborn pounds that keep creeping back, and never acquired good exercise habits.
Is this health? Is she a glowing picture of vitality?
For her it was the right choice she said, she had exhausted all other possibilities, and is much happier this way.
But in my mind, bariatric = barbaric. So much of your body's health and well being is centered around your digestive tract and what you put into it. Garbage in, garbage out. So for me it will never be an option. I'm still new here, still getting the hang of tracking these calories, but so far it seems to be working. I feel better. I walk with my head up now. The depression I feel ever time I see a cute adorable girl in cute adorable clothes is getting less. One day I hope to be wearing lovely fashionable clothes and looking good in them, and even better out of them!
So I vote against it, personally, but this doesn't mean that for some people it's not the right answer. People who just don't have the energy to move, or are too fatigued and weighed down by life, and full of despair to fix it through diet and exercise. Better they find some measure of health this way then dieing painfully due to obesity.0 -
Personally I am proud of the fact that I lost weight (60 lbs) without surgeries or any of the new injectable hormone stuff. Everyone is looking for the magic pill or quick fix, but the old fashioned way has been around forever, eat less and move more. Simple but hard and it requires patience. The benefit is you learn a lifestyle when you do it this way. Those with surgeries miss out on this character building part of the process. There is a place for the surgeries, when life is endangered.
I took two years to lose 60 lbs and I have kept it off a year now, but I noticed it took most of that year for my mind to adjust to the "new me" and to adjust to maintaining rather than losing. I can't imagine what it's like for the mind to adjust with the surgery. I like having the time to adjust.0 -
And here I thought I was posting what I thought about ELECTIVE surgeries. That was the original point of the thread, wasn't it? Opinions on whether or not someone should be proud of trying to get a quick fix? It wasn't? It's about bashing people for their opinions on elective weight-loss surgery? It was also about getting defensive when someone has gotten surgery as a life-saving last-resort? My bad.
Jeeze...so much hostility...0 -
I think surgery is risky, and it is better to lose weight by eating well and exercising.0
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And here I thought I was posting what I thought about ELECTIVE surgeries. That was the original point of the thread, wasn't it? Opinions on whether or not someone should be proud of trying to get a quick fix? It wasn't? It's about bashing people for their opinions on elective weight-loss surgery? It was also about getting defensive when someone has gotten surgery as a life-saving last-resort? My bad.
Jeeze...so much hostility...
It's a tough topic, of course emotions tend to run high after a while...
:ohwell: 0 -
Personally I am proud of the fact that I lost weight (60 lbs) without surgeries or any of the new injectable hormone stuff. Everyone is looking for the magic pill or quick fix, but the old fashioned way has been around forever, eat less and move more. Simple but hard and it requires patience. The benefit is you learn a lifestyle when you do it this way. Those with surgeries miss out on this character building part of the process. There is a place for the surgeries, when life is endangered.
I took two years to lose 60 lbs and I have kept it off a year now, but I noticed it took most of that year for my mind to adjust to the "new me" and to adjust to maintaining rather than losing. I can't imagine what it's like for the mind to adjust with the surgery. I like having the time to adjust.
^I agree^ I'm not judging those who have had surgeries but for me, there was too much of a risk so it was not an option. It took me 14 months to lose 153 pounds - one day/one pound at a time and through that journey, I learned a lot about myself, nutrition and healthy life style. I maintained that loss for almost two years but this last year by letting myself slide, I have regained 40. Being big my entire life and never having lived a healthy lifestyle before, I really needed that 14 months to learn, to adjust to this new lifestyle and to 'grow' into my new self.0 -
And here I thought I was posting what I thought about ELECTIVE surgeries. That was the original point of the thread, wasn't it? Opinions on whether or not someone should be proud of trying to get a quick fix? It wasn't? It's about bashing people for their opinions on elective weight-loss surgery? It was also about getting defensive when someone has gotten surgery as a life-saving last-resort? My bad.
Jeeze...so much hostility...
It's a tough topic, of course emotions tend to run high after a while... :ohwell:
Why? That's what I don't understand. What is with the hate and lack of respect? It's a personal choice. Just as spending multiple hours a day working out is a personal choice. Or running 50 miles a week. I don't judge others on the choices they make or the methods they use. What gives them the right to judge me or anyone else?
http://rainhoward.blogspot.com/2012/08/anti-surgery-hate-and-bigotry.html0 -
I don't think it's hate.
the problem lies more in those who did it without surgery feeling stripped off their "right for appraisal" when looking at people who did it with surgery.
I see it as most here. Surgery is a tool and you still have to do a lot to get to your goal and stay there.
As long as you get there and stay there, you have my praise. I don't care too much about the tools you use, cause I think we are one big group facing the same problems... :ohwell:0 -
These forums with topics like this really get no where.... There are always going to be people who disagree... But I think maybe we should all focus on our own health.... instead of focusing on what everyone else is doing. If you are doing it the natural way, watching what you eat and exercising, then that's great. If you are doing it with weightloss surgery, then that may be what's great for you, some people may think it's a cop out, but they have to make extreme changes as well. No I haven't had weight loss surgery, never even considered it, and I'm just beginning my weight loss journey. I have a long ways to go, and lots of changes to make on the way, it's a learning process for everyone. That being said, I'm only concerned with my weightloss and getting a healthier lifestyle, if I have questions, or need help I will ask. If you don't think someone deserves "bragging rights" for weight loss surgery, then don't congratulate them and move on... there's no since in putting them down. But we should all be here for pretty much the same reasons, and that's to lead a healthier lifestyle, and there are tons of people on this sight, doing it tons of different ways, just because it may not be your way, doesn't give you the right to judge. You don't have to support someone if you don't believe in the way they are doing it, but you also don't need to put them down and make them feel bad about theirselves. I think it goes back to the old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."0
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This thread is going nowhere, but I just want to add one more little comment because I see people continuing to say that the "natural" way requires watching your food and exercising, whereas the surgery way is just a quick fix that leads to malnutrition.
Even those of us who have had weight loss surgery need to eat healthy and exercise! We work just as hard as you do! If we don't, we regain, just like everyone else. It's that simple.
So you know someone who had surgery and eats junk food and doesn't lose the weight. That doesn't mean all weight loss surgery is bogus! That means the person hasn't been able to change their eating habits. Same thing would have happened if they hadn't had the surgery.
This is not a quick fix or an easy way out. It requires a full commitment to change to a healthy lifestyle and it's lots of hard work. I had gotten to the point where I just couldn't face another failure. I had tried and failed so many times, I was afraid of trying anymore. Now I'm succeeding....so far...but I live in constant fear of failing again...what if I can't lose these next 50lbs? What if I **** up and regain everything in 5 years? Frankly, I'm terrified because I can't fail again. I just can't. I don't know what I would do if I did. I'm working with a whole team this time to help me get fit and stay fit -- my surgeon, a nutritionist, an ED therapist, and a personal trainer. I'm working my *kitten* off. DO NOT BELITTLE MY EFFORTS JUST BECAUSE I HAD LAP-BAND SURGERY. My weight loss is just as valid as yours.
There, now you've made me angry.0 -
i agree with you,0
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kudos to you. i co-sign this0
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thank you, i agree0
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I don't have a direct experience of surgery, but I have read about it and It takes a great amount of courage, efforts and sacrifices to undergo surgery.
Which means that if I had done it, I would brag about my weight loss for sure. I feel an equal amount of admiration for those that lost a lot of weight with diet and exercise only and for those that had surgery.
I do have the feeling that the surgery is being "sponsored" in a way and that people are being pushed in that direction even when it wouldn't be completely necessary, but that doesn't detract from the efforts and achievements of those who had surgery.0 -
I'm sure it has been said in this thread but not all surgical programs are created equally. There are 4 different programs within driving distance of each other in my city. My mom had surgery and her program was different then the one my co-worker is going through. The data shows that at 10 years out the vast majority of surgical patients are at goal weight and doing well. The data also shows that the best results are gained through learning new eating habits and exercise just like non-surgical weight loss. I would say surgery is a tool and so long as the person is following the plan they get to brag just as much as the guy using MFP, Weight Watchers, or Atkins. The "trick" with any progam, surgical or not, is to make changes you can continue with once you reach your goal. Because if you go right back to what you did before the plan, you will not stay at goal for long.0
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I had surgery in May and have lost 70lbs of 130. I have only told 5 people about the surgery- it is obvious from many of the moronic, hateful, and narrow-minded posts why I have limited it so. The past 3 months have not been easy, not only have I literally been working my *kitten* exercising 2 hours/day 6 days a week, I am dealing with all the mental and emotional reasons for my eating. I was in therapy for a year prior to surgery to try to address those reasons (and since you don't know me, you have no idea what kind of hell that has been) and I continue to be in therapy to address all the issues that are coming up as a result of being thinner and having my "safety" and "comfort" taken away for ever. EVERY SINGLE DAY has been hard.
There are a lot of assumptions here about fat people- mainly that we are lazy and stupid. And those of us who have hard surgery are more lazy and stupid than the rest apparently. I'm stunned that fellow fat folk can be so hateful towards others. The surgery helps me eat less, but I still make THE CHOICE to eat healthy. I can't eat much, but I could chose to eat crap. I don't. I could chose to not exercise. I am at the gym 6 days a week. The surgery has allowed me to gain enough control of my life that I can address all the reasons behind the weight. We all know that being fat isn't just about food.
I have lost and gained weight so many times in my life and I just couldn't sustain it without the surgery, because when I became scared, I could always go back to the safety of fat. I can't anymore.
I also take anti-depressants. If I weren't such a pathetic lazy person I wouldn't need those either right?
Come to it- I must be pretty pathetic to need therapy as well. If I were a "normal" person I could cope with life without needing that kind of support.
Goodness! Now that I've written out all my weakness it is clear to me I am too lazy and stupid to live!
Great- you were able to lose weight without surgery. I congratulate you. But that doesn't make you a better person than me nor does it make your success any more remarkable.
Get off your high horse, focus on your own fat *kitten* and if you have something to say, try making it encouragement rather than tearing others down.0 -
The data shows that at 10 years out the vast majority of surgical patients are at goal weight and doing well.
Although I'm not against weight loss surgery, I also think the numbers should be represented well. From what I've read, the majority of patients lose 50% or more of their weight but very few of them get to their goal weight. I've also read that 40% of patients gain their weight back or more.
I personally think that weight loss surgery patients really need a lot of support before and after their surgery in order to have the best outcome possible. Food issues are tough, I know.0 -
I am desperatly trying to lose the weight to have surgery & I don't care about your opinions. The fact of the matter is everyone has to do what they believe is best for themselves. After 43 years of being obese & trying everything in the book, I'm tired. And I'm tired of being tired, in pain, uncomfortable and discriminated against. I want the weight off as fast as possible because when it's gone
I promise you it will never come back. Only exercise I can do now is walk but I want to run & jump & dance and that's exactly what I plan on doing. :bigsmile:0 -
If I had the money, I probably would have gotten the surgery. As it is, I had to make due with diet and exercise. I did invest in Alli, though, and I lost majority of my weight with that (I've been off it since June and doing ok without it). I don't think people with surgery get any more bragging rights than those without. They do have to keep with their set meals because I have seen it happen where a friend of mine had to go for another surgery because she expanded her stomach by eating to much (in this case I would judge you for getting the surgery). Same way I wouldn't judge someone for taking diet pills, I would not judge someone that has/will have surgery done. This is still stress on the body and adjusting to a new life style.0
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I think for those who have medical problems where they can not exercise and have major health issues it's necessary. But I also know of several people who either had it done or are getting it done who didn't want to do the work. One lady in particular lived off hot dogs. Every time I saw her she had someone grilling 4 to 6 hot dogs for her for one meal. She had the surgery and lost over 100 pounds, had her knees replaced then put it all back on again. She now needs to get her knees replaced again. Dr's wont do it unless she looses the weight again. I asked how do you put the weight back on if your stomach is reduced to the size of your thumb and she said its easy. Eat constantly and eat fatty foods.
Then another friend is getting it done but her dr. says she has to first lose 60lbs. My feeling is if you can lose that much weight why not keep it going and lose it all naturally. Her reply to me was she didn't want to have to wait that long and didn't feel like exercising.
My 3rd friend was very sick because of all of her weight. She couldn't exercise without having a great deal of pain. She had the surgery and is now walking every single day. She didn't get the excess skin removed because to her it was enough for now that she can walk again and do things with her kids. She exercises every day in her home and walks a couple miles every day.
Everyone is different. Its not for me and I would never have it done. I've seen and heard all of the things that can go wrong as a result of the surgery. Many people have life threatening infections and end up with gallbladder problems, kidney or liver problems and end up back in the hospital. Watch the weight of the nation on HBO and you'll see many different stories on there. I do feel that some people turn to the surgery as an easy way out because they don't want to do the work. Some not all think its the magic cure but then find out they still have bad habits that will just pack the pounds right back on. A lot of insurance companies still do not cover for gastric bypass surgery. I feel everyone considering it should have to see a nutritionist as part of pre op and post op treatment just so they know how to eat healthy to maintain and keep the weight off. Too many times Dr's give the treatment but not the maintenance required or should say the tools to continue after you leave the office. Whatever the person's reasons for getting it done its their reason and for themselves and if they maintain it great. If not then thats their loss.0 -
As a nurse I've seen things go horribly wrong with surgery (infection, cardaic issues, lung issues, blood clots from immobility post-surgery etc.), whether that is due to the surgery itself or the condition of those having the surgery is up for debate. But I've also seen the results of NOT doing anything about the weight, surgical or otherwise and it's not a good scene.
Surgery is not a panacea, it is a tool. Like others have said above, unless the underlying issues are addressed it's not going to work. If you're not 100% dedicated to changing the way you live/eat post-surgery, it all for nothing. You'll lose weight initially, but due to lack of change it will come back. If it's used in a way to augment changes you've already made, then yeah, I can get behind it. If it's being used as the only way then I think it's pointless.0 -
This thread is going nowhere, but I just want to add one more little comment because I see people continuing to say that the "natural" way requires watching your food and exercising, whereas the surgery way is just a quick fix that leads to malnutrition.
Even those of us who have had weight loss surgery need to eat healthy and exercise! We work just as hard as you do! If we don't, we regain, just like everyone else. It's that simple.
So you know someone who had surgery and eats junk food and doesn't lose the weight. That doesn't mean all weight loss surgery is bogus! That means the person hasn't been able to change their eating habits. Same thing would have happened if they hadn't had the surgery.
This is not a quick fix or an easy way out. It requires a full commitment to change to a healthy lifestyle and it's lots of hard work. I had gotten to the point where I just couldn't face another failure. I had tried and failed so many times, I was afraid of trying anymore. Now I'm succeeding....so far...but I live in constant fear of failing again...what if I can't lose these next 50lbs? What if I **** up and regain everything in 5 years? Frankly, I'm terrified because I can't fail again. I just can't. I don't know what I would do if I did. I'm working with a whole team this time to help me get fit and stay fit -- my surgeon, a nutritionist, an ED therapist, and a personal trainer. I'm working my *kitten* off. DO NOT BELITTLE MY EFFORTS JUST BECAUSE I HAD LAP-BAND SURGERY. My weight loss is just as valid as yours.
There, now you've made me angry.
Well said. I was just about to say something similar. We all know the reasons why we (or others) are obese. Some people can find the strength and motivation within themselves. Others need more help in one form or another. One of those forms is surgery. What I think most people do not realize is that WLS is not a quick fix at all and you still have to work hard to lose and maintain that weight loss. WLS is just a tool and like any other, if you don't use the tool properly it won't work. I had Lap band surgery as well. The weight did not just melt off on its own, it took me 3 years to lose 70 of the 80 pounds I needed to lose - cardio 5 x week, yoga, pilates, support meetings, getting my diet just right. It took a lot of time, energy and work. Surgery is not for everyone and not a decision I came to lightly, but at that point in my life it was the right thing for me. It was just another tool to help me get to where I wanted to be.
From what I have personally witnessed, WLS failure (not mechanical or problem from surgery itself) is usually because the patient was unable to make permanent and sustainable lifestyle changes. And the primary reason they do not make that change is a lack of post-surgical support. The problem isn't availablilty - every WLS program offers post-surgery meetings with support groups, nutritional and psychological counseling, etc. The problem is it isn't mandatory like all the pre-surgical stuff. You have to really want to make lifestyle change in order for any weight loss program to work. WLS doctors all tell their patients this, they can't force them to listen. Look at people who join WW, lose weight, and then gain it back as soon as they stop logging their food and/or going to meetings. Smaller scale, but kind of the same thing. If you don't change the head, you'll never change the body.0 -
My opinion is that it is great for people who aren't well enough, or mobile enough to be able to lose the weight through diet and exercise. I know of someone in a wheelchair who had only had one leg.
She had gained a TON of weight by being depressed/in a wheelchair after losing her leg.
Because she didn't get the exercise she needed.
And obviously had something to do with bad diet.
But she had this surgery, so she could become mobile and use a prosthetic leg.
Now she is up and at 'em and actually gets her walks and exercise she needs to atleast maintain her weight.
Any health problems stopping you from acheiving weight loss, or health problems that help you GAIN weight, this surgery is appropriate in my eyes. And yes, it is ok to brag a little when something in your life is working in your favour when you can't do it yourself.
But for people who are just like i'm physically and mentally capable, but i'm lazy, i'll just have surgery and voila !
No bragging rights for you. (unles syou've become MORBIDLY obese where you have to have surgery or die, but still, wouldn't brag. You put yourself there.)
Because obviously the mind set isn't there.
My mom\s friend had her stomach stapled, back in the day before this band stuff. & she lost a ton of weight at first.
& then she binged, and ate through the staples.
She stretched her stomach again.
So I don't know.0 -
here's my 2 cents worth - I think for the truly morbidly obese (ie those 500lbs & over) surgery is probably the only way to Start the journey to getting to their healthy fit weight - when you need a crane to lift you out of bed - exercising is probably not going to happen - so surgery and modified diet to get you started and get you to a point that you can continue the modified diet and incorporate the exercise to continue and keep the weight lost off. However I also agree that until you recognize and own the reasons why you gained weight in the first place and take the steps to change those reasons you wont keep the weight off.
And from what I understand even if you choose surgery you still have to lose a certain amount (100lbs) I think before you can even have the surgery - you have to prove the committment I guess.0 -
as for the question - no bragging rights for those who did it cause they WANTED to. darn, they had money or insurance for something like that, i cant even get my knees fixed!!0
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I dont have a problem with folks that have the surgery, more power to you. BUT recently I was watching the show " My 600 lb life" about people that have the surgery and their struggle over 7 yrs + ( its on you tube if you search it) frankly its a brutal program.
I was thinking of surgery, mostly because I felt lazy, and I looked at them, and the exercise they HAD to do, and the calories they HAD to maintain ....and I thought...um...why dont I just do that? Im scared to mess with my body, it has enough problems. lol
Of course for those that are so heavy, they know they are dying, and surgery is the way to try to save them, but ultimately they must do the work.0 -
Just one other thought---
how many of you ladies had an epidural when you delivered your child?
Shame on you--you cheater, you did not do it the natural way---you took a short cut, the easy way out, you didn't really experience the pain of childbirth. You can't brag on that baby because you didn't do it naturally.
How foolish--celebrate your child and that you are healthy and happy and forget the rest!!!!
I don't think anyone walks around saying "yay me for delivering my baby" do you? They're proud of the child--not the fact that they experienced pain. Much different than someone wanting a pat on the back for losing weight via surgery.
Ha! You obviously don't spend much time around mommies. LMAO Whenever women discuss childbirth, there are always one or two in the group that talk about how natural the birth was. No epidural, 2nd degree tear/episiotomy without numbing, homebirth, unassisted childbirth, buried the placenta in the yard, etc., etc. There are a lot of women who are exceptionally proud and invested in their "natural" childbirth. I'm not saying there is anything "wrong" with however someone gives birth, but I definitely don't think that people are only proud of the child and not of what she endured to bring the child into the world.
As for the OP, I'm not going to be judgmental about how someone else choses to lose weight. It seems ridiculous to nitpick in that way - however someone is able to get healthy, I applaud them for that. Everyone is having to work hard for it, it's just the starting point that is different. I would absolutely celebrate someone's success with weight loss, however they did it - it is hard, and the person obviously made a great choice to lose the weight.0 -
I think that if a person was at risk of losing their life and couldn't move because they were so overweight, then surgery would be the best thing for them. But if not, I don't think it's a good idea because to me that's just not healthy. A healthy way to lose weight is to learn which foods are right to eat, exercise, and eat foods that are not so great for you in moderation. With surgery what is going to keep them from going back into the same eating habits and lack of exercise that got them heavy in the first place? I'm happy for anyone that loses weight but I think the best way is through hard work, not a surgical knife.0
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Wow, I am now completely disgusted with the human race and a number of people on MFP. For a place that is supposed to be about supporting one another, all these posts filled with hate are sad. Many of you should simply be ashamed of yourselves and attitudes. Bigoted, hateful and rude. Not to mention uneducated about the very thing you are going off on.
That being said, I really don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm not doing this for you, or you or that guy over there. I care as much about your opinion of my choice to receive surgery as I do about what you think of my clothes or my car. That is to say, not one iota. I'm not doing this for anyone other than myself. For my health, for my happiness and to better my life. If you don't like that or the methods I use, I don't care.
Now I am off to weep at the state of humanity. Sometimes my own race embarrasses me.
Amen. Soooo much judgment.0
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