Diet and Exercise vs. Surgery. Thoughts?
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Two words:
Carnie Wilson0 -
Can you read? I think it's pretty damn clear. Ugh.My point is not that it's a competition but merely that it's undeniable that the success is not 100% your own. That's all. Like buying a house and your parents gave you the down payment--it's still an accomplishment to own your house buy its not 100% your own. Necessary, yes. By and large a good thing of you need their help but at the end of the day you can't say you did it all yourself.
And your point is....? :huh:
Nope, completely illiterate. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure if these weird lines on the bright shiny screen actually mean anything. I'm just hitting random buttons and hoping for the best.0 -
Personally, i watched my sister go thru the weight loss surgery and lose over 200 pounds. She got major infections, spent a month in hospital nearly dying. She had the surgery not only for weightloss but to keep from becoming diabetic. Now, she is about 190 at 6'3 and is glad she had the surgery, but turns out she is diabetic after all. Only she is on the low side. She will be talking one minute and sugar drops to 35 and she has to lay down quickly. She gets cold and clamy and sweats terribly.. She brings it back up with M & M's. Switched her addiction from food to M&M's and beer casue she doesnt want to get fat again.. At the end of the day, i have decided that i too, need to do it the old fashioned way. I am a firm believer that surgery is for some but not all. I'm too afraid after watching what she went thru. She is much happier now, but still not healthy. The excess skin is an issue also. For me, i would like to have the surgery only so it will come off quickly because we all want results instantly. I just have to keep telling myself that i didnt put it on overnight, so its not going to come off overnight.0
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<---- Cheater, Cop Out, Loser, Magic Pill Popper, etc.
Call me what you will, but I have worked my *kitten* off for the 128 pounds that I've lost. I've spent HOURS planning meals. I've spent HOURS at the gym getting it in. I read every label on every thing I put into my mouth. I've had nutritional counselling. I've had personal trainers. Did my surgeon lose that 128 pounds for me? Did my trainer? My nutritionist? NO. *I* did it. Me. That is all.
If YOU did it then why did you have to have the surgery to get you there? Give credit where it is due-sorry you don't deserve it all. That's like saying the recovered alcoholic who takes topomax which makes them sick when they drink has gotten sober on his/her own. Or like saying that someone who has cheated on a test by sneaking in notes and then passes the test has done it "all on his own"--yeah maybe they've done it but the triumph is much different than someone who's done it without assistance or by sheer inner strength.
Exactly!0 -
I see a lot of people stating that they "tried every diet out there" before getting the surgery. I think that's the issue.. a lot of people tried to fad DIET their way out of it and didn't deal with their overeating issues upfront.
If you have an overeating issue, you shouldn't resolve that by removing most of your stomach. Go through therapy and FIGHT to avoid the cravings. It's completely possible.. to say that you /had/ to get part of your stomach removed to lose weight seems silly to me. That is why people say it's the "easy way out". Everybody knows that surgery itself is not fun or easy.
i appreciate your point of view, but if you have never been a food addict, then you really cannot even begin to understand what our "cravings" do to us. i have been to counseling, therapy. weight watchers, take a buddy to the gym, high protein-low carb, low fat etc etc....they haven't been all fad diets. when people have an emotional attachment to food, it is literally like giving up your best friend. and if you have never had to deal with that, it may sound silly because "it's just food." you can buffalo a counselor, you can talk your way right out of therapy and hell, i can even convince myself that i'm ok without it.....but like any "addict" that needs help, at the end of the day, i always caved.......because it was that one thing that made me feel good(maybe only for a minute)for 20 some years of my life....that's not something you can just "fight" off the urge for. the problem with food addiction is that it is NOT like a drug addiction, you cannot be "cured" because unfortunately even food addicts HAVE to eat to survive....i dont need drugs or alcohol to SURVIVE......there is NO being "sober" from food ever! People who have not had to fight this type of addiction will never understand the reasoning behind surgery(if so chosen) and they will always see it as a simple solution.....i for one am/ was addicted to food, i fight that battle everyday of my life and i always will......when i had surgery, i willingly gave up my "best friend, comfort, security blanket, and companion" to be a better me, to be a better mother and girlfriend. without having done so i would be NO kind of example for my children, because i would still be a very fat, unhealthy and unhappy addict. there is no dealing with the issue upfront because sometimes even us addicts will never know what the real issue ever was.....no amount of counseling or therapy can MAKE me understand why I chose food for comfort instead of the loving and understanding family i had.
Wow. I'm sorry, but most of us wouldn't be here if we didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. It's not just you, it's ALL of us. The path that you choose to resolve the issue is what is being discussed.. not whether or not you had a difficult relationship with food.
You ARE capable of eating less/healthier options without surgery. To think otherwise is ridiculous and this is why people call it the easy way out. Instead of investing time to sort all of these issues out, most people just give up and say "well, I guess I don't know how to stop eating all of this food. I'll just go get surgery and maybe that will work and I'll magically figure everything out that way".
With the exception of very extreme medical conditions, you are capable of doing this but you couldn't fully commit. This is why some people will refer to those who get surgery as 'weak', because you gave up the fight and opted to have a doctor solve your problems for you.0 -
We have to remember that with ANY modification for ANY medical diagnosis, there are always possible risks, set-backs, relapses, etc...Not one person is the same in ANY way shape or form. I agree that a person has to work hard at whatever diagnosis they have. Diabetes, heart disease and even alcoholism...You fell, you get back up. Way of life. It's how you choose to correct it and learn and accept the things you need to do in order to live a healthy and happy life.
I guess if I wasn't a nurse, I may have thought differently about things. Seeing how I am, I don't think having weight loss surgery is a cop out. If your doing what you need to do. It's a strict plan, kind of like an outline you must follow for the rest of your life. This goes for any medical diagnosis.
Everything is based on scientific evidence. Of course, there are studies which are against and which are for a certain medical concern. Weight loss surgery being on the list. I had the surgery. I don't regret it one bit. It was a decision that I made for ME. No one else. I had co-morbidities, which lead me to MY decision. I am on the higher end of my BMI, yet still within normal. I just would like to be at the lower end. So I am working on exercise and modifying some choices on diet. Isn't that why we are all on here? No judging of an individual, right?0 -
I considered it seriously. And, if this doesn't work, then I am not taking it off the table. It turns out, that I had an undiagnosed thyroid condition for years that made weight loss nearly impossible. I would try, struggling for years on a very calorie restrictive diet and doing crazy amounts of exercise; losing a smidge each week before it would stop altogether. I would leave weight watchers in tears. It was horrendously frustrating and it left me feeling hopeless. So yes, I looked into surgery. Fortunately, now that I am under the care of an endo, it's coming off and will hopefully continue to do so. But, I will never, ever judge someone for whatever path they take in their weight struggles.
Deciding to go ahead with a painful & life-threatening surgery isn't easy, it's an act of desperation.0 -
Surgery has made all the difference to me. It is incorrect to say it is Diet and exercise vs. surgery. Surgery is just tool---you still have to diet and exercise.0
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What is with this concept of "Bragging rights?"
We're talking about life and death stuff here. I'll take life without bragging rights any day.
I am in no way a proponent of surgery. It's serious business and I had a hard time accepting my wife's decision at first. But I have seen how transformational this has been for her.0 -
One of my friends from highschool had the weight loss surgery. Diet and exercise were PART of the surgery in her case. She was specifically told it would all be for not if she didn't continue with the diet and exercise programs. For her, the surgery was a tool to jump start a lifestyle change. She is still exercising and eating healthier with a nutritionist's watchful eye. I would say that in cases like that, people deserve congratulations. She's put in more work exercising than I ever have and it shows.0
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It's kind of a double edged sword. One side of the argument is "OH you just cut your stomach in half so you would force yourself to eat more" and the other side is "I still had to plan meals, count calories, etc." My personal opinion? It is an accomplishment, by far, to lose weight. Someone who does it without surgery I would say deserve more credit, as they naturally did it with teaching themselves how to eat correctly, how to feel satiated and what is good and bad. Those with surgery they also deserve credit, but to an extent. I would give the person 60-80% of the congratulations, but the remainder to the surgery. Now you could simply eat less and not change your dietary habits at all with the surgery, or do something more effective and simply eat the right foods to live a more healthier lifestyle, just with a small tummy.0
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What is with this concept of "Bragging rights?"
We're talking about life and death stuff here. I'll take life without bragging rights any day.
I am in no way a proponent of surgery. It's serious business and I had a hard time accepting my wife's decision at first. But I have seen how transformational this has been for her.
I think it's just some people wanting to say "I'm better than you!!!" for any reason they can find <shrug>
I've been doing the Couch 2 5k as part of my exercise routine recently. I *never* thought I'd be at a place where I'd be running regularly and even looking forward to that run. So yea, I'm going to shout from the rooftops that I've started running and I'm going to be proud of every damn pound I lose in the process.0 -
Just one other thought---
how many of you ladies had an epidural when you delivered your child?
Shame on you--you cheater, you did not do it the natural way---you took a short cut, the easy way out, you didn't really experience the pain of childbirth. You can't brag on that baby because you didn't do it naturally.
How foolish--celebrate your child and that you are healthy and happy and forget the rest!!!!
I don't think anyone walks around saying "yay me for delivering my baby" do you? They're proud of the child--not the fact that they experienced pain. Much different than someone wanting a pat on the back for losing weight via surgery.
no it's not...based on your judgemental earlier posts its exactly the same...so shame on every mom out there for taking an epidural...0 -
Just one other thought---
how many of you ladies had an epidural when you delivered your child?
Shame on you--you cheater, you did not do it the natural way---you took a short cut, the easy way out, you didn't really experience the pain of childbirth. You can't brag on that baby because you didn't do it naturally.
How foolish--celebrate your child and that you are healthy and happy and forget the rest!!!!
I don't think anyone walks around saying "yay me for delivering my baby" do you? They're proud of the child--not the fact that they experienced pain. Much different than someone wanting a pat on the back for losing weight via surgery.
no it's not...based on your judgemental earlier posts its exactly the same...so shame on every mom out there for taking an epidural...
Also, just about every mom I know brags about the pain she endured during labor so yea, they're proud of that pain. :laugh:0 -
im not hating on anyone or anyone's opinion. but most of the people who have commented about the weight loss surgeries are wrong and uneducated about the procedures and qualifications. i was sincere when i said i appreciated your point of view. a sick relationship with food is what, eventually, leads to the path of surgery. it's just not as simple as finding the cause of the one's overeating that will fix the problem. i was not trying to pick at your comment just simply trying to get people who have not had the surgery to understand or at least attempt to be empathetic.....we all have our demons, and sometimes we need a helping hand to cut them loose.0
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you know what...shame on every person that ever accepted an aid out there for moving on with their life.
shame on the person that needed an anti depressant to move on in their life,
shame on the person that needed methadone to successfully kick a drug habit,
shame on the person that had to use inhalers to help get their asthma under control.
shame on the person that accepted the help of a painkiller during a painful healing situation..
shame on the person that accepted rehab after an accident..
just shame....
but yet, IF people accepted those aids and IF people came out of the other side successfully and with full faculty and became fully active contributing members of society we laud them for the troubles, we laud them for their fight and their battle and the ensuing victory over their demon that they had to overcome...
yet we find it within ourselves to judge others WE (who have not truly been in their shoes) feel are not worth any pride, or self satisfaction or good feelings....
personally the judgments I see in this thread about how a person that has had a surgery isn't entitled to EVER feel good about themselves is disgusting...
frankly all of you that did work hard and did it naturally, you are either jealous or sick in the head that you would feel that you have the right to claim that another person isn't entitled to pride and self worth based on YOUR feelings and beliefs...
y'all make me a little disappointed in the world.0 -
You asked that someone "correct you if you are wrong"--you are wrong if the person had a RNY weightloss surgery. The surgery can change your hormonal function and cause your body to respond differently to the food you eat. That is why some people no longer have diabetes immediately after their surgery--- not, after losing the weeight, but before even leaving the hospital.
This surgery doesn't just make your stomach smaller so you cannot eat as much, but also changes your bowel and the way your body absorbs the food you eat--so, it is forcing your body to work differently than before hormonaly as well as functionally.
That is why it is now being considered as a surgery that can possibly cure diabetes Type 2.
So many people on this site have so much to say about something they know nothing about!!!
First of all I asked the question and I guess you "think" you answered it, but you did NOT. There is NO surgery out there that literally removes the weight off a person except liposuction or lopping the fat off your butt! Okay this type of WLS changes your hormonal functioning and makes it so you fill fuller sooner, and your body responds different to food that you eat - I will give you that - I believe you - but it does not remove the weight! That is done when your body responds to the surgery and you can't eat like you did - For WHATEVER reason, hormones, feeling full, eating less, feeling hungry sooner. Any WLS person will have to alter their style of eating, relationship with food and what they put in their mouth in order to lose weight and when if they (or anyone that has lost weight even without surgery) stop doing that - and makes crappy food choices and eats (in whatever manner) more calories than they need - they will gain weight. It's not rock science. And there is NO cure for diabetes - period, even in the cases of WLS it's not proven the sugery cures diabetes. I can assure you if the person remains sedentary, gains weight and eats unhealthy regardless of how much surgery has re-routed and bypassed their innerds, the blood sugar levels will become elevated again.
I am giving those with WLS surgeries a kudo for at least knowing their limits and for those that have lose weight - I am acknowledging their very hard work - I am not giving credit to the surgery! My post was saying it bothers me when I hear people say "I could not lose weight without the surgery" because the surgery only assists them with one aspect of losing weight and getting healthy - and it's a aspect so many of them COULD do themselves and DO after the surgery in order to actually lose the weight!
I think the phrase should be "I was not able to lose weight without the sugery". You know what there are alot of people on this site that has something to say, and it's their right to do so. Just because it's something you don't want to hear, or because you disagree does not mean they know nothing.0 -
I still strongly believe it is an education thing - not school smarts, but knowing and understanding how it works. Most of us that have tried and failed did so from fad dieting, it is true, BUT, if that is all you know about or understand, that is what u do. You see others succeeding (short term-though you don't see THAT) and u think you have the answer. Everyone always said you have to make a lifestyle change to make it work, but it took me many years to understand that this meant you LIVE your diet, or way of eating. This means you take a meal off or day off or week off here and there, and its OKAY. You LIVE. And as long as the on track days outweigh the derailed or chosen days off, you come out ahead. You live like the normal thin person. Once you accept that you can be there and understand how, you just start on the path to get there. Knowing all this - well it took until I was 43 to get here.0
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that generally people who have gastric bypass/lap band are put on a high protein/low carb/low fat diet, therefore they end up burning a lot of their own body fat. If this type of diet was first recommended to the patient and the protocol was strictly followed, then couldn't it save lots of people from thousands of dollars worth of surgery, not to mention the irreversible effects?
Second point: type II diabetes is reversed almost instantly (within a week give or take) after gastric bypass, again, mostly due to reduction of carbohydrate intake and fasting.
Either way I think a diet intervention would be much preferable. I haven't had it and hope to never have it, nor do I judge people who have. I just wish patients were more informed of the diet intervention previous to making the decision.
The reason that they are put on the high protein diet is to reduce the insulin output from the pancreas. It works like this:
In individuals who are morbidly obese, when they eat something that contains sugar or will be broken down into sugar (carbohydrates), the pancreas puts out insulin. In a normal weight person, the amount put out would be fairly close to what the body needs to move the glucose into the cells. For a morbidly obese person, the pancreas has figured out that it better put out more insuline than needed, just in case. So, the morbidly obese person eats the food, the pancreas puts out more insulin than needed, and once the glucose is moved into the cells, there will be insulin running around in the blood. This causes the person to become hungry and so they eat again, repeating the positive feedback cycle.
Now, if a morbidly obese person has bariatric surgery, they will be limited on what they can ingest. The pancreas doesn't compute this immediately. Therefore, when the obese person eats their first meal after surgery, the pancreas will fall back to its old habit of producing more insulin than needed. This will through the person into a state of hypoglycemia and could kill them.
In order to prevent this from happening, the patient is put on a low carb or absent diet. Basically, it is very high protein. This is done so that the pancreas can reset itself back to a normal state where it will only put out enough insulin to move the glucose into the cells.
Problem is that many patients cheat on the diet. They are often not told about the true intent of the high protein diet prior to surgery. Where they think it is just to show that they can follow the diet, they will cheat a little, maybe a donut hear or a crumpet there. In the end, this harms them because they will then have hypoglycemic episodes post-surgery because the pancreas will not have been retrained.
Hope that makes sense.0 -
you know what...shame on every person that ever accepted an aid out there for moving on with their life.
shame on the person that needed an anti depressant to move on in their life,
shame on the person that needed methadone to successfully kick a drug habit,
shame on the person that had to use inhalers to help get their asthma under control.
shame on the person that accepted the help of a painkiller during a painful healing situation..
shame on the person that accepted rehab after an accident..
just shame....
but yet, IF people accepted those aids and IF people came out of the other side successfully and with full faculty and became fully active contributing members of society we laud them for the troubles, we laud them for their fight and their battle and the ensuing victory over their demon that they had to overcome...
yet we find it within ourselves to judge others WE (who have not truly been in their shoes) feel are not worth any pride, or self satisfaction or good feelings....
personally the judgments I see in this thread about how a person that has had a surgery isn't entitled to EVER feel good about themselves is disgusting...
frankly all of you that did work hard and did it naturally, you are either jealous or sick in the head that you would feel that you have the right to claim that another person isn't entitled to pride and self worth based on YOUR feelings and beliefs...
y'all make me a little disappointed in the world.
Amen0
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