"Natural Flavor" ingredient exposed?

CarmenSRT

A fact is truth....undeniable. Like "water is wet". That is a fact. If you choose to believe that water is dry, that may be your "belief" but it does not make it "fact".

I am a man of a very small vocabulary. I speak in hopes that people will understand what I'm trying to say instead of pedantically tell me I spoke wrong. Thank you for letting me know, the point I was trying to make with the word "belief" in the place of fact is still valid.

Sir, you ARE entitled to your own OPINIONS and BELIEFS. You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. That is the issue people have with your position.

I gave up a while ago trying to argue with folks who base an argument on beliefs. Beliefs are not arrived at using facts and logic. Facts and logic won't dislodge them. It's an exercise in futility.

bunchesonothing

:laugh:

That is awesome!

rml_16

It's sad that the naysayers think you must be depriving yourself or eating nothing but gruel if you don't eat processed food. There is so much delicious food out there that doesn't require weird-tasting manufactured flavors to make it good.

Clearly, you missed the thread yesterday where he said any women who want to be skinny and eat a low-cal diet MUST give up flavorful food.

EccentricDad

It's fact for me. If it's not fact for you, then that's where you share your facts. But don't you dare push your facts on me as my facts are not the same.

Stop using the word fact if you don't know what it means.

Seriously! You need a dictionary!

Agreed. Or I need other people to stop being pedantic. You knew what I meant, why can't you just accept me for who I am? I have.

No I really didn't, you say fact like it's an opinion...It's a fact you have no clue what you are talking about!

And it's my belief that you are obsessed with making people feel bad for making decisions without getting all the scientific research first. But no matter how much you criticize me, I will not change. You can't change anyone but yourself. And since you are secure in your opinions/beliefs and so am I, where does that put us? A stalemate. Now are you going to weigh in on the article? Or are you going to leave because I'm done arguing with you?

firstsip

Science does not contradict itself. Studies sometimes do. And then the scientists find the confounding factors, peer review and come to a consensus.

So is coffee good for you or bad for you then? Science (or rather scientific studies for you pedants out there) has had proven both that it is good and bad for you. Considering you are a only interested in scientific discussion and not theoretical, what is your argument on the matter and which scientific study do you align with?

Typical "burden of proof" argument.

You posited something with one source... that leaves it up to you to prove it.

You bring up coffee: NAME your sources that you say contradict. People famously use the "coffee" and "egg" debates to try and discredit science... not realizing that the studies aren't published at the same time. More research is done, and science puts out those new findings. Science is not stable; it is constantly progressing.

I think a more apt response to show how being UNSCIENTIFIC is harmful are in the "singular" studies: your flavor article, for example. Or the famous "autism" linked to vaccines study, which was done by ONE scientist and has been disproven over and over. Now we have an increase in diseases that had long been dormant, because a 15+ year old study was put out, people believe it without ever looking to see the follow up, to check the sources, etc.

Legitimate science is based in being "valid" and "verifiable." Claims that are posited are only done so if there is valid evidence. Valid and verifiable evidence is that which can be repeated and repeat the same or similar results.

EccentricDad

It's sad that the naysayers think you must be depriving yourself or eating nothing but gruel if you don't eat processed food. There is so much delicious food out there that doesn't require weird-tasting manufactured flavors to make it good.

Clearly, you missed the thread yesterday where he said any women who want to be skinny and eat a low-cal diet MUST give up flavorful food.

Did anyone ask me what I meant by that? No. Did anyone just take it literally and interpret it any way they wanted to? Yes. And here in this thread I am being criticized for doing the same exact thing when I hyper-vigilantly perceive attacks.

EccentricDad

A fact is truth....undeniable. Like "water is wet". That is a fact. If you choose to believe that water is dry, that may be your "belief" but it does not make it "fact".

I am a man of a very small vocabulary. I speak in hopes that people will understand what I'm trying to say instead of pedantically tell me I spoke wrong. Thank you for letting me know, the point I was trying to make with the word "belief" in the place of fact is still valid.

Sir, you ARE entitled to your own OPINIONS and BELIEFS. You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. That is the issue people have with your position.

I gave up a while ago trying to argue with folks who base an argument on beliefs. Beliefs are not arrived at using facts and logic. Facts and logic won't dislodge them. It's an exercise in futility.

But the point is, we are entitled in this world to believe what we want. I don't give churchgoers a hard time for their belief despite knowing that scientifically they are wasting their time because "he" doesn't exist. But the point is, we are allowed to believe what we want as facts, aren't we?

ilovedeadlifts

ED, you've post a lot of threads lately. Most of which lead to people saying you're full of it.........
It's not always the same people in each thread.


so please see if you can come up with what the common factor is in all of your threads.

Krizzle4Rizzle

Mr. ED I can see you are clearly upset...

EccentricDad

Typical "burden of proof" argument.

You posited something with one source... that leaves it up to you to prove it.

You bring up coffee: NAME your sources that you say contradict. People famously use the "coffee" and "egg" debates to try and discredit science... not realizing that the studies aren't published at the same time. More research is done, and science puts out those new findings. Science is not stable; it is constantly progressing.

I think a more apt response to show how being UNSCIENTIFIC is harmful are in the "singular" studies: your flavor article, for example. Or the famous "autism" linked to vaccines study, which was done by ONE scientist and has been disproven over and over. Now we have an increase in diseases that had long been dormant, because a 15+ year old study was put out, people believe it without ever looking to see the follow up, to check the sources, etc.

Legitimate science is based in being "valid" and "verifiable." Claims that are posited are only done so if there is valid evidence. Valid and verifiable evidence is that which can be repeated and repeat the same or similar results.

So what you mean to say is, you haven't made an opinion on the matter because the science gods haven't made up their opinion on the matter yet. What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Is coffee good or bad for you? All I'm asking is for you to have your own opinion, even if it isn't scientifically or politically correct.

BrettPGH

ED, you've post a lot of threads lately. Most of which lead to people saying you're full of it.........
It's not always the same people in each thread.


so please see if you can come up with what the common factor is in all of your threads.

This is the same advice I would give you. If everyone routinely thinks your wrong for what you say and criticizes you...

Well maybe it's not everyone else who is in the wrong here.

CarmenSRT

A fact is truth....undeniable. Like "water is wet". That is a fact. If you choose to believe that water is dry, that may be your "belief" but it does not make it "fact".

I am a man of a very small vocabulary. I speak in hopes that people will understand what I'm trying to say instead of pedantically tell me I spoke wrong. Thank you for letting me know, the point I was trying to make with the word "belief" in the place of fact is still valid.

Sir, you ARE entitled to your own OPINIONS and BELIEFS. You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. That is the issue people have with your position.

I gave up a while ago trying to argue with folks who base an argument on beliefs. Beliefs are not arrived at using facts and logic. Facts and logic won't dislodge them. It's an exercise in futility.

But the point is, we are entitled in this world to believe what we want. I don't give churchgoers a hard time for their belief despite knowing that scientifically they are wasting their time because "he" doesn't exist. But the point is, we are allowed to believe what we want as facts, aren't we?

No, we are not entitled to rename a "belief " a "fact". We are, however, entitled to state a belief as a belief. Beliefs and facts are as different as cats and dogs. Would you call a cat a dog and expect no pushback?

EccentricDad

ED, you've post a lot of threads lately. Most of which lead to people saying you're full of it.........
It's not always the same people in each thread.


so please see if you can come up with what the common factor is in all of your threads.

I'm just struggling with finding people who are like-minded that's all. It's a really lonely world when you think you are doing the right thing by thinking/judging for yourself instead of following what everyone else is thinking/judging. Sure I make my decisions through intuition and my personal experiences/feelings, but some of the best people in life have done the same and they moved mountains. I just want to find more people who think like me, that's all...

ilovedeadlifts

ED, you've post a lot of threads lately. Most of which lead to people saying you're full of it.........
It's not always the same people in each thread.


so please see if you can come up with what the common factor is in all of your threads.

This is the same advice I would give you. If everyone routinely thinks your wrong for what you say and criticizes you...

Well maybe it's not everyone else who is in the wrong here.

Pretty simple logic.

EccentricDad

A fact is truth....undeniable. Like "water is wet". That is a fact. If you choose to believe that water is dry, that may be your "belief" but it does not make it "fact".

I am a man of a very small vocabulary. I speak in hopes that people will understand what I'm trying to say instead of pedantically tell me I spoke wrong. Thank you for letting me know, the point I was trying to make with the word "belief" in the place of fact is still valid.

Sir, you ARE entitled to your own OPINIONS and BELIEFS. You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. That is the issue people have with your position.

I gave up a while ago trying to argue with folks who base an argument on beliefs. Beliefs are not arrived at using facts and logic. Facts and logic won't dislodge them. It's an exercise in futility.

But the point is, we are entitled in this world to believe what we want. I don't give churchgoers a hard time for their belief despite knowing that scientifically they are wasting their time because "he" doesn't exist. But the point is, we are allowed to believe what we want as facts, aren't we?

No, we are not entitled to rename a "belief " a "fact". We are, however, entitled to state a belief as a belief. Beliefs and facts are as different as cats and dogs. Would you call a cat a dog and expect no pushback?

If people knew what I meant, yes. Yes I would. Not everyone speaks with accuracy.

ilovedeadlifts

I'm just struggling with finding people who are like-minded that's all. It's a really lonely world when you think you are doing the right thing by thinking/judging for yourself instead of following what everyone else is thinking/judging. Sure I make my decisions through intuition and my personal experiences/feelings, but some of the best people in life have done the same and they moved mountains. I just want to find more people who think like me, that's all...

But if people don't think like you, it's possible that you're just wrong bro.

The other day I saw you ripping on a bodybuilding site that was posted for a study.
Today you're asking about why you're skinnyfat and can't improve the way your stomach looks..........so you're basically needing information from the people you took a piss on two days ago....

firstsip

It's fact for me. If it's not fact for you, then that's where you share your facts. But don't you dare push your facts on me as my facts are not the same.

Stop using the word fact if you don't know what it means.

Seriously! You need a dictionary!

Agreed. Or I need other people to stop being pedantic. You knew what I meant, why can't you just accept me for who I am? I have.

No I really didn't, you say fact like it's an opinion...It's a fact you have no clue what you are talking about!

And it's my belief that you are obsessed with making people feel bad for making decisions without getting all the scientific research first. But no matter how much you criticize me, I will not change. You can't change anyone but yourself. And since you are secure in your opinions/beliefs and so am I, where does that put us? A stalemate. Now are you going to weigh in on the article? Or are you going to leave because I'm done arguing with you?

You are responsible for your own feelings. If you feel bad, perhaps you should examine that. It is NOT something to be lauded if you make decisions without getting all the information first. Let me show you using non-personal examples of what happens when people make decisions off of one source:

1. A police officer shoots an African-American teenager arriving at a call for robbery because he is "unsure" of what he's holding. He believed in something without getting all the facts. The teenager was not involved, was not holding a gun, and is now in the hospital (you live outside of Detroit, so I know you know this isn't a ridiculous example).

2. The majority of the world believed that the Earth was the center of the Solar System (really, I should say Universe).

3. People believed the world was flat. Others disproved this. There still exists a "flat earth society."

In these three cases, one historical, another more anecdotal, only ONE source was used. People believed the Church. People believed what they wanted in a shadowy scenario with preconceived stereotypes. People believed what their eyes saw looking straight at a horizon.

Ultimately, I almost question your lifestyle and how you were raised to so unthinkingly find yourself unable to change, progress, or be wrong. You just sit back and say, 'I'm emotional. That's ok.' It's okay to be who you are, but it's not okay to be who you are if is negative (In this case, you spread misinformation as fact. That is not okay). You can be an emotional person and still question things, read things, etc. It's not okay to willfully choose ignorance. It brings the whole species down.

CarmenSRT

A fact is truth....undeniable. Like "water is wet". That is a fact. If you choose to believe that water is dry, that may be your "belief" but it does not make it "fact".

I am a man of a very small vocabulary. I speak in hopes that people will understand what I'm trying to say instead of pedantically tell me I spoke wrong. Thank you for letting me know, the point I was trying to make with the word "belief" in the place of fact is still valid.

Sir, you ARE entitled to your own OPINIONS and BELIEFS. You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. That is the issue people have with your position.

I gave up a while ago trying to argue with folks who base an argument on beliefs. Beliefs are not arrived at using facts and logic. Facts and logic won't dislodge them. It's an exercise in futility.

But the point is, we are entitled in this world to believe what we want. I don't give churchgoers a hard time for their belief despite knowing that scientifically they are wasting their time because "he" doesn't exist. But the point is, we are allowed to believe what we want as facts, aren't we?

No, we are not entitled to rename a "belief " a "fact". We are, however, entitled to state a belief as a belief. Beliefs and facts are as different as cats and dogs. Would you call a cat a dog and expect no pushback?

If people knew what I meant, yes. Yes I would. Not everyone speaks with accuracy.

Wow. I'm out.

bunchesonothing

So what you mean to say is, you haven't made an opinion on the matter because the science gods haven't made up their opinion on the matter yet. What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Is coffee good or bad for you? All I'm asking is for you to have your own opinion, even if it isn't scientifically or politically correct.

I just recently read it was on man's opinion that it was a problem that airplanes didn't have windows that opened to let oxygen in, in the event of an emergency. Those damn science gods brought up things like air pressure and temperatures at high altitudes. They were total jerks. Why didn't they just let him have his opinion?

Seriously, this should sound ridiculously silly. And we know this, because due to science, we know the guy had no idea what he was talking about and if he had his way, it was not only wrong, but dangerous. This is what you're asking us to be okay with.

EccentricDad

I'm just struggling with finding people who are like-minded that's all. It's a really lonely world when you think you are doing the right thing by thinking/judging for yourself instead of following what everyone else is thinking/judging. Sure I make my decisions through intuition and my personal experiences/feelings, but some of the best people in life have done the same and they moved mountains. I just want to find more people who think like me, that's all...

But if people don't think like you, it's possible that you're just wrong bro.

The other day I saw you ripping on a bodybuilding site that was posted for a study.
Today you're asking about why you're skinnyfat and can't improve the way your stomach looks..........so you're basically needing information from the people you took a piss on two days ago....

Have you ever considered that it's not about being "right" or about being "wrong"? I just want to be in control of what I believe. I digest things when I am ready to, not when people are ready to shove it down my throat. Two days ago, I wasn't ready for that info; but today I am.

rml_16

It's sad that the naysayers think you must be depriving yourself or eating nothing but gruel if you don't eat processed food. There is so much delicious food out there that doesn't require weird-tasting manufactured flavors to make it good.

Clearly, you missed the thread yesterday where he said any women who want to be skinny and eat a low-cal diet MUST give up flavorful food.

Did anyone ask me what I meant by that? No. Did anyone just take it literally and interpret it any way they wanted to? Yes. And here in this thread I am being criticized for doing the same exact thing when I hyper-vigilantly perceive attacks.

OK. This? Right here? This is funny.

"I said it, but that's not what I meant and how dare you think that I meant what I said!!!!"

EccentricDad

So what you mean to say is, you haven't made an opinion on the matter because the science gods haven't made up their opinion on the matter yet. What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Is coffee good or bad for you? All I'm asking is for you to have your own opinion, even if it isn't scientifically or politically correct.

I just recently read it was on man's opinion that it was a problem that airplanes didn't have windows that opened to let oxygen in, in the event of an emergency. Those damn science gods brought up things like air pressure and temperatures at high altitudes. They were total jerks. Why didn't they just let him have his opinion?

Seriously, this should sound ridiculously silly. And we know this, because we know the guy had no idea what he was talking about and if he had his way, it was not only wrong, but dangerous. This is what you're asking us to be okay with.

I just recently read that a woman's opinion was that a child who had bruises on his face was claiming they were from falling down the stairs. When the woman went to the authorities they found out that the child was not only abused but also was being molested. You can't always believe what you hear/read. You must make your own opinion, even if the known facts say otherwise. All I am asking is open your mind. If you can't do it, then that's fine, but don't judge those who do because we are happy the way we are.

firstsip

Typical "burden of proof" argument.

You posited something with one source... that leaves it up to you to prove it.

You bring up coffee: NAME your sources that you say contradict. People famously use the "coffee" and "egg" debates to try and discredit science... not realizing that the studies aren't published at the same time. More research is done, and science puts out those new findings. Science is not stable; it is constantly progressing.

I think a more apt response to show how being UNSCIENTIFIC is harmful are in the "singular" studies: your flavor article, for example. Or the famous "autism" linked to vaccines study, which was done by ONE scientist and has been disproven over and over. Now we have an increase in diseases that had long been dormant, because a 15+ year old study was put out, people believe it without ever looking to see the follow up, to check the sources, etc.

Legitimate science is based in being "valid" and "verifiable." Claims that are posited are only done so if there is valid evidence. Valid and verifiable evidence is that which can be repeated and repeat the same or similar results.

So what you mean to say is, you haven't made an opinion on the matter because the science gods haven't made up their opinion on the matter yet. What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Is coffee good or bad for you? All I'm asking is for you to have your own opinion, even if it isn't scientifically or politically correct.

Lol, my opinions are rooted in objectivity and science. I look at facts, I check my research, and I come to conclusions.

If you really want to harp about coffee, I know coffee is not evil. Coffee affects people differently, there are pros and cons, but ultimately is as good as en egg or an apple. Too much of anything can be bad. Multiple pieces of research have stated the benefits to cholesterol and vascular health of coffee. Too much can cause unfavorable side-effects such as jitteryness, withdrawal headaches (as it has caffeine, a drug), and even heart palpitations.

My opinion, as based on scientific study? Coffee's okay.

But the topic for debate isn't really coffee, is it?

UsedToBeHusky

I'm just struggling with finding people who are like-minded that's all. It's a really lonely world when you think you are doing the right thing by thinking/judging for yourself instead of following what everyone else is thinking/judging. Sure I make my decisions through intuition and my personal experiences/feelings, but some of the best people in life have done the same and they moved mountains. I just want to find more people who think like me, that's all...

But if people don't think like you, it's possible that you're just wrong bro.

The other day I saw you ripping on a bodybuilding site that was posted for a study.
Today you're asking about why you're skinnyfat and can't improve the way your stomach looks..........so you're basically needing information from the people you took a piss on two days ago....

Have you ever considered that it's not about being "right" or about being "wrong"? I just want to be in control of what I believe. I digest things when I am ready to, not when people are ready to shove it down my throat. Two days ago, I wasn't ready for that info; but today I am.

Wow! You just clearly defined ignorance. You don't care whether it is right or wrong. You just want to accept it in your own time.

So... you post a thread and we are supposed to look at you inside your pretty contented bubble.

You are a powerful troll! You sucked me back in even after I said I was walking away from this thread. LOL!

firstsip

So what you mean to say is, you haven't made an opinion on the matter because the science gods haven't made up their opinion on the matter yet. What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Is coffee good or bad for you? All I'm asking is for you to have your own opinion, even if it isn't scientifically or politically correct.

I just recently read it was on man's opinion that it was a problem that airplanes didn't have windows that opened to let oxygen in, in the event of an emergency. Those damn science gods brought up things like air pressure and temperatures at high altitudes. They were total jerks. Why didn't they just let him have his opinion?

Seriously, this should sound ridiculously silly. And we know this, because we know the guy had no idea what he was talking about and if he had his way, it was not only wrong, but dangerous. This is what you're asking us to be okay with.

I just recently read that a woman's opinion was that a child who had bruises on his face was claiming they were from falling down the stairs. When the woman went to the authorities they found out that the child was not only abused but also was being molested. You can't always believe what you hear/read. You must make your own opinion, even if the known facts say otherwise. All I am asking is open your mind. If you can't do it, then that's fine, but don't judge those who do because we are happy the way we are.

WHAT?

Why do you think we have a 7 page long thread?!

We're all saying you can't believe everything you see, hear, or read and that you have to have an open mind. Are you seriously so obtuse to what everyone's been saying? Are you really not seeing what YOU are doing?

Edit: You're misusing the word facts again o_O

BrettPGH

Have you ever considered that it's not about being "right" or about being "wrong"? I just want to be in control of what I believe. I digest things when I am ready to, not when people are ready to shove it down my throat. Two days ago, I wasn't ready for that info; but today I am.

So until you are ready to accept the truth that others are kind enough to try to show you it's ok for you to take a crap all over them?

Too much talking. Not enough listening.

I didn't use to lift either, never thought I'd be that guy. Thankfully people here helped me and I achieved the success I was after. And I made sure to never attack them when they really were only trying to help.

Talk less, listen more. Other people are more knowledgeable and it's better to learn from them as opposed to fighting them. They are right.

EccentricDad

It's sad that the naysayers think you must be depriving yourself or eating nothing but gruel if you don't eat processed food. There is so much delicious food out there that doesn't require weird-tasting manufactured flavors to make it good.

Clearly, you missed the thread yesterday where he said any women who want to be skinny and eat a low-cal diet MUST give up flavorful food.

Did anyone ask me what I meant by that? No. Did anyone just take it literally and interpret it any way they wanted to? Yes. And here in this thread I am being criticized for doing the same exact thing when I hyper-vigilantly perceive attacks.

OK. This? Right here? This is funny.

"I said it, but that's not what I meant and how dare you think that I meant what I said!!!!"

Again, I have a limited vocabulary. Because I have a learning disability does that make me someone less than worthy to open my mouth in a public space? I am sorry but you are being rude at this point. Not everyone gets the same education and not everyone is capable of learning everything taught. This is just as bad as teasing my son who has a stuttering problem. Do I need to come with a warning label before I speak?

PittShkr

If people knew what I meant, yes. Yes I would. Not everyone speaks with accuracy.

escloflowneCHANGED

Agreed. Or I need other people to stop being pedantic. You knew what I meant, why can't you just accept me for who I am? I have.

No I really didn't, you say fact like it's an opinion...It's a fact you have no clue what you are talking about!

And it's my belief that you are obsessed with making people feel bad for making decisions without getting all the scientific research first. But no matter how much you criticize me, I will not change. You can't change anyone but yourself. And since you are secure in your opinions/beliefs and so am I, where does that put us? A stalemate. Now are you going to weigh in on the article? Or are you going to leave because I'm done arguing with you?

You should feel bad for not educating yourself and spreading crap all over forums where people are looking for FACTS!

bunchesonothing

[I just recently read that a woman's opinion was that a child who had bruises on his face was claiming they were from falling down the stairs. When the woman went to the authorities they found out that the child was not only abused but also was being molested. You can't always believe what you hear/read. You must make your own opinion, even if the known facts say otherwise. All I am asking is open your mind. If you can't do it, then that's fine, but don't judge those who do because we are happy the way we are.

I'm sorry, ed, but facts and not opinions are what the authorities used to determine that the child was sexually and physically abused. Not opinion.