Milk...?

minizebu

Do you have any idea how long an 8 year old would need to nurse? It would take up all the mother's time awake to nurse or pump enough milk to feed an 8 year old. Your argument is ridiculous. And no it's not strange for a child to drink breast milk from another mother's breast. If a mother is willing to nurse another child then that is an act of utter selflessness. Salma Hayak breast fed starving children in a third world country, do you find that strange?

Of course I don't find that strange, but is Ms. Hayak doing this for infants or pre-teens? Pre-teen I will say that this would be strange. And my argument I think is not ridiculous for the reason that I know that there are 8, 9, 10 or 11 year olds out there still on their mother's breast simply for the reason and decisions of their mothers. The mother believe that their milk is intended (designed) for their children, so they will not give them an alternative unless it is necessary.

Reading this, I couldn't help but think of Rose of Sharon and the starving man (GOW). I hadn't heard of this anecdote about Ms. Hayek, but I have to say, I have a lot of respect for her.

CoderGal

Someone just asked why I drink milk, so I guess this thread doesn't make it clear. Summary:

Because it contains healthy things that my body needs.

Because I've seen no evidence or studies showing that anything anyone says about not drinking milk is true.

Lucky #3: Because "There are NO healthy or unhealthy foods. This was the first thing that my nutritionist told me. I had been categorizing, like many of you, food into "healthy", "okay occasionally," and "bad for you!". She debunked this rather quickly. Huge amounts of anything can be harmful. But no one food can destroy or restore health, so no one food is healthy or unhealthy. "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787081-all-should-read-eds-calories-and-the-truth

Because and Sara summed it up pretty nicely "I have been drinking over 40oz or milk a day - at my highest I was drinking 120oz a day, for over 25 years and according to my recent DEXA scan I have off the charts good bone density - at 45 years old, that's not bad going. Now, there is no control of my anecdotal sample of n=1 that it was soley due to the milk, but it obviously did not hurt the calcium absorption"

Because "Cows milk does my body good."

Because very few of my friends (and very few people in many places) have intolerances to something, doesn't mean I should cut it from my diet. Very few in Europe for example are lactose intolerent. Just because someone else stops producing lactase, doesn't mean I should stop drinking milk.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/upload/NICHD_MM_Lactose_FS.pdf

Because I want a certain amount of fat in my diet

Because I find it hard to get enough calcium, protein, and fat in my diet. This solves it all in one go...and has a full amino acid profile.

It contains a full amino acid profile.

Because "I would continue to drink human milk but it isnt nearly as convenient as cow's milk."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

ARGUMENT: Animals don't do it so we shouldn't do it.

"Animals absolutely do drink the milk of other mammals - try putting milk in front of a dog, cat, raccoon or plethora of other mammals - they drink it."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/animals/news-10-incredible-stories-interspecies-nursing?image=9

"Gotta argue with grown cows not drinking cow milk. Given the chance, they LOVE it. I've seen adult cows go crazy over it. For those that have concerns about factory farming, hormones, etc...look for a local producer or organic. Animals will eat something that tastes good just for that reason, just like humans. "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"Just thought id point out the only reason why other animals stop is because if they don't they will have their face kicked in."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"Using the argument "animals don't do it, so neither should we," is simply a bad argument. Just as saying if an animal (wild or domesticated, I don't see how it differs) does it, that makes it natural and good, and therefore humans should do it, too."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I have multiple anecdotal examples of adult cats nursing off of lactating mother cats as well. They mother cat didn't mind, and the adult cat doing the nursing looked like he was in absolute bliss. I've seen this many, many times."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

You shouldn't eat milk because I'm vegan:

I'm sorry, but I'm an omnivore.


Oh the horrible conditions of cows sitting in their own **** forced not to move and the hormones and antibiotics pumped into them:

Not in Canada my friend. These things aren't aloud.
http://www.dairynutrition.ca/facts-fallacies/product-quality/cows-and-hormones
http://www.dairynutrition.ca/facts-fallacies/product-quality/antibiotics

Once again, I'm an omnivore.

"I have seen many farms (small and large), and I have yet to see any cows just covered in *kitten*. Most conditions I have seen around here are not nearly as bad as many act like. And yes I have been to a large slaughter house before too, once again not as bad as people make it out to be." "Lol. I grew up with mountain sides of cows as far as you could see. They had hundreds of acres to roam. My friends that I went to high school with woke up before the sun to milk cows and use it at home, no pasterization, just straight from the cow."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"That's how the cows are here! When ever I drive from university to my hometown its all just cows roaming around.

We have quite a few campus cows too. I get to pet them "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk


ARGUMENT: "People who are lactose intolerant are actually normal....So IMO no milk or dairy for me. "

"So what you're saying is, that if they weren't normal.. You'd force it down? "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Also, why is it normal? Because you chose it to be? Because some people do not produce lactose? Statistics in many places beg to differ what that 'normal' is. I'm part of that statistic.

And that's okay if it does your body good; however, I'm looking at the purpose of what milk is intended for: younglings.


ARGUMENT: It's not intended for humans. Why did we stop nursing?

"Do you have any idea how long an 8 year old would need to nurse? It would take up all the mother's time awake to nurse or pump enough milk to feed an 8 year old. Your argument is ridiculous. And no it's not strange for a child to drink breast milk from another mother's breast. If a mother is willing to nurse another child then that is an act of utter selflessness. Salma Hayak breast fed starving children in a third world country, do you find that strange?"
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"So, aside from human breast milk, what foods are intended specifically for humans? Is there some master list?"
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I do not get the 'what it was intended for' argument at all. If it is good for your body, why not drink it? So, I do not see your reasoning."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Logic fail: Plants are 'intended' to grow, eggs are 'intended' to hatch, etc etc.

ARGUMENT:
"You can never go wrong with a plant-based diet. Deer, cows, turkeys, etc., they seem to do pretty well."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"You can go wrong with a plant-based diet - you need to be careful about protein and certain nutrients - specifically B12. I am not saying that a vegan diet is necessarily lacking, but you can go wrong, just as you can a non-vegan diet."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I have no desire to look like a cow. Or a turkey."

ARGUMENT: Milk makes you fat, the whole purpose is to fatten baby cows

Um, wow, no. I think anyone with common sense will see through this one. If not, see my third comment again. Also, it's whole purpose is not to fatten baby cows. I'm pretty sure giving them nutrition has something to do with it...which comes back to why I drink milk

"If you want to lose weight, and aren't lactose intolerant, then drink milk. There have been numerous studies that suggest dairy (and specifically the type of calcium present in dairy, note that calcium from supplements doesn't show the same results) reduces the amount of fat you absorb from your diet. Now, this doesn't mean you can start chugging cream, but it would suggest that keeping milk in your diet is a good idea as far as weight loss is concerned.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2003.52/full
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/3/678.full"

ARGUMENT: non-animal milk is better for you

Um, no. Once again see my third statement. I don't think I have to go farther with this but...

"Totally agree! Almond milk is a highly processed food. Healthier than cow's milk? I don't think so."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Anyway, I would be completely open for discussion if someone could give me a valid reason why I should not drink milk, other then it's their opinion.

CoderGal

As for the other comments thrown at me due to this thread:

"cow's milk (the non-organic, non-raw, mass-produced kind you find in grocery stores) contains artificial growth hormone and remains of dead white blood cells and bacteria that were killed during the pasteurization process" (not in Canada they don't) .

"And the conditions the cows are raised in are completely sickening" people seem to drastically lie about this.

"Without that step (pasteurization), we would literally be drinking live bacteria and feces" last I checked feces doesn't come from boobs.

"Also, studies have shown that drinking cow's milk is not only linked to a huge amount of common allergies & ailments in humans, but it also does not improve calcium absorption like people widely believe"
Examples please? I've only seen example stating the opposite to be true. Also examples in this thread suggesting otherwise. Also my doctor talking about my unusually large bones suggest otherwise.

"Because human bones can't properly absorb that type of calcium" I do not understand. Calcium only has one type. Just check the periodic table.

"it ends up actually depleting the bones of calcium and leading to osteoporosis" that is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Where did you get this?

"Finally, all cow's milk, even raw, is designed for baby cows, not humans" - so what foods are designed for humans? What makes it a food that is designed for humans?

"Even grown cows don't drink cow's milk. From a biological perspective, it makes no sense for us to either. " - incorrect, cows have and well drink cows milk.

AllTehBeers

@ CoderGal

But it's BAD, just ask some people.

Try arguing with that. I win.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Give it a rest---if you don't want to drink it then DON'T. I'm pretty sure we've been drinking it for hundreds of years now and we're still here! Humanity has not ceased to exist due to the introduction of milk. Heck, until the low fat/fat free craze I'd venture to say that many more people used to drink WHOLE MILK and the obesity rates were lower (at least in the U.S.) ...all of this is purely correlational but ya know what....I see no good reason to cut it out.

Oh...and for those of you who subscribe to the "paleo" lifestyle...

"Through analyzing degraded fats on unearthed potshards, scientists have discovered that Neolithic farmers in Britain and Northern Europe may have been among the first to begin milking cattle for human consumption.
The dairying activities of these European farmers may have begun as early as 6,000 years ago. According to scientists, the ability to digest milk was slowly gained some time between 5000-4000 B.C.E. by the spread of a genetic mutation called lactase persistance that allowed post-weaned humans to continue to digest milk.
If that date is correct, it may pre-date the rise of other major dairying civilizations in the Near East, India, and North Africa. "

CoderGal

@ CoderGal

But it's BAD, just ask some people.

Try arguing with that. I win.

watch out! I learned from the poster who argued with me after I stated "can't argue with logic". Turns out, you can! :laugh:

AllTehBeers

@ CoderGal

But it's BAD, just ask some people.

Try arguing with that. I win.

watch out! I learned from the poster who argued with me after I stated "can't argue with logic". Turns out, you can! :laugh:

If you make up stuff, logic doesn't count. Then anyone can win.

Elzecat

Someone just asked why I drink milk, so I guess this thread doesn't make it clear. Summary:

Because it contains healthy things that my body needs.

Because I've seen no evidence or studies showing that anything anyone says about not drinking milk is true.

Lucky #3: Because "There are NO healthy or unhealthy foods. This was the first thing that my nutritionist told me. I had been categorizing, like many of you, food into "healthy", "okay occasionally," and "bad for you!". She debunked this rather quickly. Huge amounts of anything can be harmful. But no one food can destroy or restore health, so no one food is healthy or unhealthy. "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787081-all-should-read-eds-calories-and-the-truth

Because and Sara summed it up pretty nicely "I have been drinking over 40oz or milk a day - at my highest I was drinking 120oz a day, for over 25 years and according to my recent DEXA scan I have off the charts good bone density - at 45 years old, that's not bad going. Now, there is no control of my anecdotal sample of n=1 that it was soley due to the milk, but it obviously did not hurt the calcium absorption"

Because "Cows milk does my body good."

Because very few of my friends (and very few people in many places) have intolerances to something, doesn't mean I should cut it from my diet. Very few in Europe for example are lactose intolerent. Just because someone else stops producing lactase, doesn't mean I should stop drinking milk.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/upload/NICHD_MM_Lactose_FS.pdf

Because I want a certain amount of fat in my diet

Because I find it hard to get enough calcium, protein, and fat in my diet. This solves it all in one go...and has a full amino acid profile.

It contains a full amino acid profile.

Because "I would continue to drink human milk but it isnt nearly as convenient as cow's milk."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

ARGUMENT: Animals don't do it so we shouldn't do it.

"Animals absolutely do drink the milk of other mammals - try putting milk in front of a dog, cat, raccoon or plethora of other mammals - they drink it."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/animals/news-10-incredible-stories-interspecies-nursing?image=9

"Gotta argue with grown cows not drinking cow milk. Given the chance, they LOVE it. I've seen adult cows go crazy over it. For those that have concerns about factory farming, hormones, etc...look for a local producer or organic. Animals will eat something that tastes good just for that reason, just like humans. "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"Just thought id point out the only reason why other animals stop is because if they don't they will have their face kicked in."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"Using the argument "animals don't do it, so neither should we," is simply a bad argument. Just as saying if an animal (wild or domesticated, I don't see how it differs) does it, that makes it natural and good, and therefore humans should do it, too."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I have multiple anecdotal examples of adult cats nursing off of lactating mother cats as well. They mother cat didn't mind, and the adult cat doing the nursing looked like he was in absolute bliss. I've seen this many, many times."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

You shouldn't eat milk because I'm vegan:

I'm sorry, but I'm an omnivore.


Oh the horrible conditions of cows sitting in their own **** forced not to move and the hormones and antibiotics pumped into them:

Not in Canada my friend. These things aren't aloud.
http://www.dairynutrition.ca/facts-fallacies/product-quality/cows-and-hormones
http://www.dairynutrition.ca/facts-fallacies/product-quality/antibiotics

Once again, I'm an omnivore.

"I have seen many farms (small and large), and I have yet to see any cows just covered in *kitten*. Most conditions I have seen around here are not nearly as bad as many act like. And yes I have been to a large slaughter house before too, once again not as bad as people make it out to be." "Lol. I grew up with mountain sides of cows as far as you could see. They had hundreds of acres to roam. My friends that I went to high school with woke up before the sun to milk cows and use it at home, no pasterization, just straight from the cow."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"That's how the cows are here! When ever I drive from university to my hometown its all just cows roaming around.

We have quite a few campus cows too. I get to pet them "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk


ARGUMENT: "People who are lactose intolerant are actually normal....So IMO no milk or dairy for me. "

"So what you're saying is, that if they weren't normal.. You'd force it down? "
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Also, why is it normal? Because you chose it to be? Because some people do not produce lactose? Statistics in many places beg to differ what that 'normal' is. I'm part of that statistic.

And that's okay if it does your body good; however, I'm looking at the purpose of what milk is intended for: younglings.


ARGUMENT: It's not intended for humans. Why did we stop nursing?

"Do you have any idea how long an 8 year old would need to nurse? It would take up all the mother's time awake to nurse or pump enough milk to feed an 8 year old. Your argument is ridiculous. And no it's not strange for a child to drink breast milk from another mother's breast. If a mother is willing to nurse another child then that is an act of utter selflessness. Salma Hayak breast fed starving children in a third world country, do you find that strange?"
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"So, aside from human breast milk, what foods are intended specifically for humans? Is there some master list?"
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I do not get the 'what it was intended for' argument at all. If it is good for your body, why not drink it? So, I do not see your reasoning."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Logic fail: Plants are 'intended' to grow, eggs are 'intended' to hatch, etc etc.

ARGUMENT:
"You can never go wrong with a plant-based diet. Deer, cows, turkeys, etc., they seem to do pretty well."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"You can go wrong with a plant-based diet - you need to be careful about protein and certain nutrients - specifically B12. I am not saying that a vegan diet is necessarily lacking, but you can go wrong, just as you can a non-vegan diet."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

"I have no desire to look like a cow. Or a turkey."

ARGUMENT: Milk makes you fat, the whole purpose is to fatten baby cows

Um, wow, no. I think anyone with common sense will see through this one. If not, see my third comment again. Also, it's whole purpose is not to fatten baby cows. I'm pretty sure giving them nutrition has something to do with it...which comes back to why I drink milk

"If you want to lose weight, and aren't lactose intolerant, then drink milk. There have been numerous studies that suggest dairy (and specifically the type of calcium present in dairy, note that calcium from supplements doesn't show the same results) reduces the amount of fat you absorb from your diet. Now, this doesn't mean you can start chugging cream, but it would suggest that keeping milk in your diet is a good idea as far as weight loss is concerned.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2003.52/full
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/3/678.full"

ARGUMENT: non-animal milk is better for you

Um, no. Once again see my third statement. I don't think I have to go farther with this but...

"Totally agree! Almond milk is a highly processed food. Healthier than cow's milk? I don't think so."
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787970-milk

Anyway, I would be completely open for discussion if someone could give me a valid reason why I should not drink milk, other then it's their opinion.

:drinker:

(that's me drinking either my skim milk because I hate the taste of 1%, 2% and whole milk), or almond milk (because occasionally I like something a little different)

AllTehBeers

:drinker:

(that's me drinking either my skim milk because I hate the taste of 1%, 2% and whole milk), or almond milk (because occasionally I like something a little different)

That's always liquor for me.

CoderGal

:drinker:

(that's me drinking either my skim milk because I hate the taste of 1%, 2% and whole milk), or almond milk (because occasionally I like something a little different)

That's always liquor for me.

I'll drink all of it in small doses (including 4 different kinds of almond milk)...and many different liquors

I'm not a big buyer of whole milk but I'll buy it if I want to make homemade cheese (and I'm not a big fan of cheese either but I enjoy making my own). One thing I hate when it comes to dairy though is cream. I'd much rather guzzle down a container of my plain greek yogurt. Something about it tastes better to me, and something about the cream is bad. I don't get you coffee creamer people

kismicallychal

I've switche to Almond milk purely because of the calories in it compared to even low fat milk - it means I can eat/drink more! I've never been much of a milk drinker so i'm not bothered by the flavour difference. Then again i tend to get phlemmy or feel sick on full cream milk so mabe it's for the best.

Either way, whatever you choose is what's best for you