Wheat - Unhealthy or just evil?

CrazyCatLadylovescats

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

You claim to be a crazy cat lady. I need to know if you are an imposter. Prove it.

Although, I feel like I am closer to the crazy duck of goose lady as I have 15 African Geese and 20 Indian Runner Ducks. And my kids cry when we sell the goslings....(sold 20 this year....)

KBGirts

I love these posts....

darleyschroeder

I think 100% whole wheat is great. It has plenty of protein and fiber. It keeps your tummy full and is nutritious. I don't have any allergies so I will def. keep eating it!

slkehl

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

I was talking about the various hypothetical books someone mentioned that convinced them that wheat is bad for everyone. I realize that people can't read every study; I was just trying to make the point that just because a book cites clinical trials does not mean it does so accurately. I have seen studies distorted many MANY times in news articles and whatnot.

Anyhow, I haven't read studies that conclude that wheat has negative effects on healthy individuals. However, I have read meta-analyses on the benefits of whole wheat (in case you are unfamiliar with the term, a meta-analysis examines the results of many studies). You can find one by googling Cambridge Journals Whole Grains and Human Health (link wasn't working)

As you can see, there's a great body of research that supports the role of whole grains as protective against the top killers today (cancer, diabetes, CVD, ect.) which makes me skeptical of anyone who calls wheat evil.

richardheath

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

You claim to be a crazy cat lady. I need to know if you are an imposter. Prove it.

So, no studies from big research organizations then?

knittybitties

Burpees are totally evil.

maqsmj

plain simple, food is food, there is no dirty food and there is no clean food, food is food, do you want a prove? search for nutrient prof. who ate oreos and some other stuff like that for 2 months and lost hella weight food is food man just enjoy all of it and make it in ur calories

neanderthin

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

You claim to be a crazy cat lady. I need to know if you are an imposter. Prove it.

So, no studies from big research organizations then?

We're not going to find studies, they don't exist, because they've never been done. One way to look at the possibility that grain might have an effect on our physiology and overall health is to look at a population that consume high amounts, then compare diets that are in direct conflict with it. The SAD diet would be considered pretty high in grains and grain byproducts that would qualify, and lets face it that is the diet that is used for comparison purposes for most nutritional studies that are carried out in this country. Obviously the Mediterranean type diet would work, a higher protein diet would also compare and of course a low carb diet. The comparison would need to have tight controls and in the absence of weight loss, which is vital, considering weight loss regardless of what diet someone is on generally improves health markers. Just a thought.

slkehl

^Seems incredibly difficult to adjust for confounders. Kind of like that "red meat is correlated with cancer" deal. Sure, nations that consume greater amounts red meat have higher rates of cancer, but they also have vastly different lifestyles that those in other nations, and plenty of those differences could account for the rates of cancer. It would nonetheless be an interesting comparison.

craigineson

I read several major reports by big research organizations and I am thuroughly convinced that consuming wheat is unhealthy in every way. So I ask you, is wheat unhealthy or just plain evil? Thoughts?

I don't eat grains.
But you won't make any friends not eating grains here. Grains are the crack cocaine of the general MFP forum user. To each their own, but I'm free from that addiction.

It's cute that you think grains = crack. Maybe you've never actually seen a crack addict?

Yeah ... while I enjoy my grains, I could live without them just fine if I had to. I'm not sure why one assumes people are addicted to something just because they enjoy eating it.

I have never been made ill by it and I have never had trouble losing weight because of it.

And I'll repeat for the millionth time that people have been eating grains for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Sure, but they didn't really become a major constituent of the human diet until about 10,000 years ago, or as late as 5000 years in some areas of the world. There's a lot of inertia to evolve in higher species like humans, and 5000-10,000 years simply isn't enough time.

neanderthin

^Seems incredibly difficult to adjust for confounders. Kind of like that "red meat is correlated with cancer" deal. Sure, nations that consume greater amounts red meat have higher rates of cancer, but they also have vastly different lifestyles that those in other nations, and plenty of those differences could account for the rates of cancer. It would nonetheless be an interesting comparison.

I know. The study would have to be clinically controlled which generally means small participation with a limited time frame, nevertheless interesting. The study that would probably work the best imo would be the higher protein diet where just some of the carb calories are reduced, and of course some of those calories would be grains.

What gets me thinking about this comparison is, a few years ago after reading Denise Mingers critique of the China Study, where Dr Campbell basically ripped the non vegan world a new Ahole, saying casein protein, all dairy and meat was the scourge of civilization. His peers obviously never took his data seriously because he was never referenced in any scientific studies, but it made the general population take notice. Anyway Denise Minger who took a closer look at the data and has some compelling things to say.....and it turns out wheat had some red flags attached and later she p\erformed a follow up statistical analysis that paints an interesting picture.

Here's a link. I'm not only a nutrition nerd, lol, I'm also a skeptic big time, believe in context and dosage and also believe there are no bad foods, only bad diets. Well, maybe the country is on a bad diet.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Shock_Wave

This strange duck covered in wheat would be way yumm! Me loves to eat some breaded strange duck!

..........................................................

slkehl

What gets me thinking about this comparison is, a few years ago after reading Denise Mingers critique of the China Study, where Dr Campbell basically ripped the non vegan world a new Ahole, saying casein protein, all dairy and meat was the scourge of civilization. His peers obviously never took his data seriously because he was never referenced in any scientific studies, but it made the general population take notice. Anyway Denise Minger who took a closer look at the data and has some compelling things to say.....and it turns out wheat had some red flags attached and later she p\erformed a follow up statistical analysis that paints an interesting picture.

Here's a link. I'm not only a nutrition nerd, lol, I'm also a skeptic big time, believe in context and dosage and also believe there are no bad foods, only bad diets. Well, maybe the country is on a bad diet.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Thanks for passing this on. I remember seeing this article at one point but didn't remember her comments on wheat. If I'm reading this correctly, it seems that Campbell didn't distinguish between refined and whole grains. As I'm sure you know, refined grains don't have much nutritional value, and with their high GI, it's clear how they contribute to obesity, CVD, ect. But whole grains, on the other hand, are much more packed nutritionally and have a lower GI, and their fiber is actually protective against CVD and whatnot. The type of wheat product is a very important and rudimentary distinction, imo.

Chadomaniac

how does one know if they are gluten intolerant?? i get bloated and feel sick if i eat too much gluten

AntWrig

This is why people can't reach their goals. They read these so-called "studies" and start blaming their lack of progress on a particular food or groups of food.

neanderthin

What gets me thinking about this comparison is, a few years ago after reading Denise Mingers critique of the China Study, where Dr Campbell basically ripped the non vegan world a new Ahole, saying casein protein, all dairy and meat was the scourge of civilization. His peers obviously never took his data seriously because he was never referenced in any scientific studies, but it made the general population take notice. Anyway Denise Minger who took a closer look at the data and has some compelling things to say.....and it turns out wheat had some red flags attached and later she p\erformed a follow up statistical analysis that paints an interesting picture.

Here's a link. I'm not only a nutrition nerd, lol, I'm also a skeptic big time, believe in context and dosage and also believe there are no bad foods, only bad diets. Well, maybe the country is on a bad diet.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Thanks for passing this on. I remember seeing this article at one point but didn't remember her comments on wheat. If I'm reading this correctly, it seems that Campbell didn't distinguish between refined and whole grains. As I'm sure you know, refined grains don't have much nutritional value, and with their high GI, it's clear how they contribute to obesity, CVD, ect. But whole grains, on the other hand, are much more packed nutritionally and have a lower GI, and their fiber is actually protective against CVD and whatnot. The type of wheat product is a very important and rudimentary distinction, imo.

This is mostly rural China, but I'm sure there was still enough refined wheat around, and Campbell had crews that measured, weight and observed during this time period, and foods were for the most part well known, but the interesting comparison that Denise found was when comparing wheat to rice consumption, rice had little association with heart attacks and coronary heart disease compared to wheat. Funny thing is animal protein had a correlation of +1, fish -11, wheat +67 with heart disease. Cancer correlations were another interesting topic, not what I would have ever imagined.

Anyway I did find this:

Flaxseed and Cardiovascular Risk Factors: Results from a Double Blind, Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial
http://www.jacn.org/content/27/1/65.full

Basically it says that flax is protective, no surprise there, but the control was wheat bran.They made a bread with it. If you look at table 4 what's interesting is that the group that consumed the wheat bran also has an increase of 14.9% in insulin resistance using HOMA-IR and a 9.3% in C-reactive protein which is inflammation, both risk factors for heart disease. Just throwing it out there.

FlaxMilk

Or we could GMO some bacteria to take in pill form and eat the gluten right from our bellies. That way bread will still have a delicious chewy texture.

This. Yesterday.

FlGuy, thanks for the giggles tonight.

MeeshyBW

how does one know if they are gluten intolerant?? i get bloated and feel sick if i eat too much gluten

Well I used to get similar reactions. I suffer from IBS and GERD and decided to try an elimination style diet to see what triggers my disorder.

After trying most food groups I know for a fact that gluten makes me bloated, gives me terrible heartburn, sometimes makes me vomit, and always, always, always makes me tired.

If you have a sneaking suspicion then I would try cutting it out, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It has literally changed my life!

Fozzi43

Big thick doorstep toast with lashings of real butter ...yum yum

PamelaKuz

I grew up on a wheat farm. I didn't realise there was so much hate on for wheat! I remember when I was too young to go to school, my dad would take me in the combine with him. I would lay on a little bench behind him and look out the window, it was so pretty.. Wheat fields as far as you could see. We used to chew the raw wheat and turn it into gum. Good memories!

NormalSaneFLGuy

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

You claim to be a crazy cat lady. I need to know if you are an imposter. Prove it.

Although, I feel like I am closer to the crazy duck of goose lady as I have 15 African Geese and 20 Indian Runner Ducks. And my kids cry when we sell the goslings....(sold 20 this year....)

Ryan Gosling is named after a goose?


Hmm. Well nevertheless, you are a cat lady... but I don't know if you have enough live oens to be a crazy cat lady.

NormalSaneFLGuy

Neither! Demonizing food and using scare tactics mean nothing to me. I don't have any sensitivity to grains so I will continue to eat them in moderation just like everything else.



ETA: I have an intolerance to an enzyme in red meat and my stomach won't digest it. I guess I should google a bunch of odd ball studies to back up why beef is evil and no one should eat it... yeah that makes perfect sense.

some people are more tolerant of mercury poisoning, are you saying we should go out of our way to eat mercury since some people are less affected by it?

NormalSaneFLGuy

About the reading the actual studies...have you read them? If not, then you know no more than I. And yes, I have read some, but not all of them.

You claim to be a crazy cat lady. I need to know if you are an imposter. Prove it.

So, no studies from big research organizations then?

I already posted a list of sites with very good studies by a variety of different organizations that are all reputable. Please go read the list instead of trying to flame-bait the forums. Your rudeness is unnecessary.

christabel6

Gluten
1.Gluten causes gut inflammation in at least 80% of the population and another 30% of the population develops antibodies against gluten proteins in the gut.

You noticed that adds up to more than 100%, right? If the statistics are bogus, perhaps the research is too?

Don't let people scaremonger you into believing something is evil without taking a good hard look at what they want you to do instead, and how it might benefit them - especially if they're selling something.

Life is too short to be this stressed about bread.

rml_16

I read several major reports by big research organizations and I am thuroughly convinced that consuming wheat is unhealthy in every way. So I ask you, is wheat unhealthy or just plain evil? Thoughts?

I don't eat grains.
But you won't make any friends not eating grains here. Grains are the crack cocaine of the general MFP forum user. To each their own, but I'm free from that addiction.

It's cute that you think grains = crack. Maybe you've never actually seen a crack addict?

Yeah ... while I enjoy my grains, I could live without them just fine if I had to. I'm not sure why one assumes people are addicted to something just because they enjoy eating it.

I have never been made ill by it and I have never had trouble losing weight because of it.

And I'll repeat for the millionth time that people have been eating grains for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Sure, but they didn't really become a major constituent of the human diet until about 10,000 years ago, or as late as 5000 years in some areas of the world. There's a lot of inertia to evolve in higher species like humans, and 5000-10,000 years simply isn't enough time.

I'm going to continue eating grains. You do whatever you want.

FitBeto

Every. Villain. Is. Lemons.

Easywider

Yeah,...well that's just like, your opinion, man.

rml_16

I'm eating wheat AND dairy right this moment.

I expect to be dead by noon.

bathsheba_c

A ton of the food we eat wasn't part of the human diet 5,000-10,000 years ago because it simply didn't exist then. We've bred these things into existence. Thus, my post way back about why the hate-on for wheat, but not chicken, eggs, carrots, or broccoli?

Pandasarecool

[/quote]
And I would hate on Brussels sprouts if someone tried to make me eat them.
[/quote]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Brussels sprouts!!! :smooched: