Women and Body Shaming

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Do you honestly think they're "hot" or "pretty?" I personally don't, not most of them anyways.

Well, I couldn't tell you. It's not about what I think is pretty. A lot of women form their self image from a weird amalgamation of past comments, present media culture and how they perceive their own level of appeal to the opposite sex. Whether that's a good way to derive your self worth is very debatable. I'm just saying that I never see my body type held up as an ideal and often find that my specific flaws are things that guys will openly make fun of or criticize in other women who dare to show them to the world. So the end result is that I feel bad about my pale skin, my thick legs or my weird boobs (or whatever the men happen to be nitpicking at the time.)

I have never had women make me feel bad about my body. Maybe my experience is unique, but any perception of my body or body parts being "wrong" has been derived from my experiences with men.

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Yes, cosmopolitan etc are totally mens magazines...

PS. Men aren't looking your way because you are blaming them just because you don't feel confident about your own figure. Men can tell when we see somebody hating them for their own faults ya know

PPS. Men look at somebody, they're called perverts. We DON'T look at someone, we're called body shaming

First, I don't know an actual *woman* who reads Cosmopolitan. As far as I knew, only teenage girls cracked the cover on that.

I don't let men hear me say anything like this in real life, so they really have no idea I'm "blaming" them, do they?

And you would lack confidence in your body if you constantly heard it picked apart, not even by the media, but by people you know.

You think I'm placing too much blame on men, I think you're completely ignoring the big impact they can have. I wouldn't care what I looked like if men didn't place an absolute premium on how their partner looks. Even moreso than how intelligent or ethical she is. Men say it openly on this site every single day. How can you possibly be missing that?

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Yes, cosmopolitan etc are totally mens magazines...

PS. Men aren't looking your way because you are blaming them just because you don't feel confident about your own figure. Men can tell when we see somebody hating them for their own faults ya know

PPS. Men look at somebody, they're called perverts. We DON'T look at someone, we're called body shaming

I partially agree, the person we're quoting is pretty. I think she's just not seeing when men actually check her out. It's not like we stand there for 10mins staring.

Its an instinct thing for me. You have to look like Alessandra Ambrosio for me to like you even after you hate and blame men for your insecurities

I don't "hate" men. That's quite a jump in logic there. But you cannot write off the effect of comments and criticism can have on self perception in women. I've never had another woman comment about my body and even if they did I wouldn't care, because society isn't telling me that I need to look good for WOMEN. There's a very strong message that we need to look good for men. You could only not see it if you are in a state of extreme denial...which, well, clearly.

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Do you honestly think they're "hot" or "pretty?" I personally don't, not most of them anyways.

Well, I couldn't tell you. It's not about what I think is pretty. A lot of women form their self image from a weird amalgamation of past comments, present media culture and how they perceive their own level of appeal to the opposite sex. Whether that's a good way to derive your self worth is very debatable. I'm just saying that I never see my body type held up as an ideal and often find that my specific flaws are things that guys will openly make fun of or criticize in other women who dare to show them to the world. So the end result is that I feel bad about my pale skin, my thick legs or my weird boobs (or whatever the men happen to be nitpicking at the time.)

I have never had women make me feel bad about my body. Maybe my experience is unique, but any perception of my body or body parts being "wrong" has been derived from my experiences with men.

It sounds like in summary you're saying.
1. It doesn't matter if the women on magazines are hot or pretty.
2. Women form the idea of how they're supposed to look from media sources.

If this is correct, it doesn't make sense. If women where portrayed through media as someone who is very unattractive that's the look women would strive for just because that's what is being presented to them? It doesn't matter if a woman is portrayed attractive or not, it just matters how social media presents them to the opposite sex?

As I said in another post, you're an attractive woman. I don't see pale skin, even if I did... it's not a bad thing, some women actually are attractive with light skin. I can't see your thighs or your boobs. It doesn't matter, I don't think anyone really cares.
It's not like men go around saying, "oh i don't like her, she has weird boobs" or "you see her thighs, those things are thick"
no one cares... it's just your own perception.

I have a friend who's always about a womans body, makes comments to me all the time about womens bodies. All he wants is sex, he doesn't care about anything else. If a guy is so focused on those qualities, he probably just wants sex, and why would you want someone who just wants that from you? you know.

You just completely contradicted yourself here and kind of supported what I was saying.

You claim that men don't go around making negative comments, and then in the very next paragraph give a real life example of that exact thing! So yeah, maybe your friend just wants sex. I'm not talking about choosing who I want to date here, I'm talking about how comments and criticism affect self-image. And you obviously know at least one man who does exactly what I was talking about. So obviously I'm not making this up out of the clear blue sky.

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Do you honestly think they're "hot" or "pretty?" I personally don't, not most of them anyways.

Well, I couldn't tell you. It's not about what I think is pretty. A lot of women form their self image from a weird amalgamation of past comments, present media culture and how they perceive their own level of appeal to the opposite sex. Whether that's a good way to derive your self worth is very debatable. I'm just saying that I never see my body type held up as an ideal and often find that my specific flaws are things that guys will openly make fun of or criticize in other women who dare to show them to the world. So the end result is that I feel bad about my pale skin, my thick legs or my weird boobs (or whatever the men happen to be nitpicking at the time.)

I have never had women make me feel bad about my body. Maybe my experience is unique, but any perception of my body or body parts being "wrong" has been derived from my experiences with men.

It sounds like in summary you're saying.
1. It doesn't matter if the women on magazines are hot or pretty.
2. Women form the idea of how they're supposed to look from media sources.

If this is correct, it doesn't make sense. If women where portrayed through media as someone who is very unattractive that's the look women would strive for just because that's what is being presented to them? It doesn't matter if a woman is portrayed attractive or not, it just matters how social media presents them to the opposite sex?

As I said in another post, you're an attractive woman. I don't see pale skin, even if I did... it's not a bad thing, some women actually are attractive with light skin. I can't see your thighs or your boobs. It doesn't matter, I don't think anyone really cares.
It's not like men go around saying, "oh i don't like her, she has weird boobs" or "you see her thighs, those things are thick"
no one cares... it's just your own perception.

I have a friend who's always about a womans body, makes comments to me all the time about womens bodies. All he wants is sex, he doesn't care about anything else. If a guy is so focused on those qualities, he probably just wants sex, and why would you want someone who just wants that from you? you know.

You just completely contradicted yourself here and kind of supported what I was saying.

You claim that men don't go around making negative comments, and then in the very next paragraph give a real life example of that exact thing! So yeah, maybe your friend just wants sex. I'm not talking about choosing who I want to date here, I'm talking about how comments and criticism affect self-image. And you obviously know at least one man who does exactly what I was talking about. So obviously I'm not making this up out of the clear blue sky.

yes i know it's kind of contradictory, I know 1 man, out of how many who does it? those conversations don't come up with most men I have talked to. I can't picture a man saying things along the lines of what you said out of the blue. How does something like that even come up in conversation?

I made a topic about body types these are the pics i used



The question was if you had to build a girlfriend in this cyber world, what body type would she have? Most men picked the 25%.

I don't see that girl ever being on a cover on a magazine. Of course we have preferences, what I think is an ideal body you may not like it, or many women for that matter. You can't please everyone.

Here's the link if anyone wants to see the topic...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/601281-men-how-much-fat-you-like-on-your-woman

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Yes, cosmopolitan etc are totally mens magazines...

PS. Men aren't looking your way because you are blaming them just because you don't feel confident about your own figure. Men can tell when we see somebody hating them for their own faults ya know

PPS. Men look at somebody, they're called perverts. We DON'T look at someone, we're called body shaming

I partially agree, the person we're quoting is pretty. I think she's just not seeing when men actually check her out. It's not like we stand there for 10mins staring.

Its an instinct thing for me. You have to look like Alessandra Ambrosio for me to like you even after you hate and blame men for your insecurities

I don't "hate" men. That's quite a jump in logic there. But you cannot write off the effect of comments and criticism can have on self perception in women. I've never had another woman comment about my body and even if they did I wouldn't care, because society isn't telling me that I need to look good for WOMEN. There's a very strong message that we need to look good for men. You could only not see it if you are in a state of extreme denial...which, well, clearly.

First, your comments make you sound like you at least resent men

Second, maybe you should raise your own self-esteem if you're letting other men dictate if you're pretty or not

Third, other women don't comment about your body? Are you like brand new to MFP? Because pretty much every women bashing on this site is done by ladies. Just saying.

Fourth, that strong message you're talking about that women need to look good for men, is also the other way around. In case you didn't noticed, women don't just go out with hobos who haven't showered and washed clothes in months ya know.

Its a matter of perspective. You say I'm in denial. I say you're blaming men for your failures to achieve some ridiculous goals that you THINK men want you to be when in reality, it is other women who're bringing you down

So your whole point is that other women are bringing me down and it's ok to blame THEM for any insecurities I may have. Because according to you it is obvious that women attack each other like rabid succubi. But if I even for one second try to shift some responsibility to men, then I'm a resentful man-hater. Makes perfect sense, bro.

And washing your clothes and taking a shower can never be compared with being expected to look like a Playboy model. I mean, wow. Wowee wow.

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

Do you honestly think they're "hot" or "pretty?" I personally don't, not most of them anyways.

Well, I couldn't tell you. It's not about what I think is pretty. A lot of women form their self image from a weird amalgamation of past comments, present media culture and how they perceive their own level of appeal to the opposite sex. Whether that's a good way to derive your self worth is very debatable. I'm just saying that I never see my body type held up as an ideal and often find that my specific flaws are things that guys will openly make fun of or criticize in other women who dare to show them to the world. So the end result is that I feel bad about my pale skin, my thick legs or my weird boobs (or whatever the men happen to be nitpicking at the time.)

I have never had women make me feel bad about my body. Maybe my experience is unique, but any perception of my body or body parts being "wrong" has been derived from my experiences with men.

It sounds like in summary you're saying.
1. It doesn't matter if the women on magazines are hot or pretty.
2. Women form the idea of how they're supposed to look from media sources.

If this is correct, it doesn't make sense. If women where portrayed through media as someone who is very unattractive that's the look women would strive for just because that's what is being presented to them? It doesn't matter if a woman is portrayed attractive or not, it just matters how social media presents them to the opposite sex?

As I said in another post, you're an attractive woman. I don't see pale skin, even if I did... it's not a bad thing, some women actually are attractive with light skin. I can't see your thighs or your boobs. It doesn't matter, I don't think anyone really cares.
It's not like men go around saying, "oh i don't like her, she has weird boobs" or "you see her thighs, those things are thick"
no one cares... it's just your own perception.

I have a friend who's always about a womans body, makes comments to me all the time about womens bodies. All he wants is sex, he doesn't care about anything else. If a guy is so focused on those qualities, he probably just wants sex, and why would you want someone who just wants that from you? you know.

You just completely contradicted yourself here and kind of supported what I was saying.

You claim that men don't go around making negative comments, and then in the very next paragraph give a real life example of that exact thing! So yeah, maybe your friend just wants sex. I'm not talking about choosing who I want to date here, I'm talking about how comments and criticism affect self-image. And you obviously know at least one man who does exactly what I was talking about. So obviously I'm not making this up out of the clear blue sky.

yes i know it's kind of contradictory, I know 1 man, out of how many who does it? those conversations don't come up with most men I have talked to. I can't picture a man saying things along the lines of what you said out of the blue. How does something like that even come up in conversation?

I made a topic about body types these are the pics i used



The question was if you had to build a girlfriend in this cyber world, what body type would she have? Most men picked the 25%.

I don't see that girl ever being on a cover on a magazine. Of course we have preferences, what I think is an ideal body you may not like it, or many women for that matter. You can't please everyone.

Here's the link if anyone wants to see the topic...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/601281-men-how-much-fat-you-like-on-your-woman

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

Today I learned that having an opinion is passing judgement!

btw, nice work trolling. You are proving to be a total pro so far. I kinda enjoy it! (at least I hope you're trolling because I have too much respect for the female gender and refuse to think they use men as their scapegoat)

You were ok with me scapegoating other women, though...interesting how that works.

And today I learned that anyone who disagrees with your worldview in any way is "trolling."

Sarauk2sf

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

I honestly do not get your logic here. Everyone has a preference as to what pleases them aesthetically, but you are saying they cannot have that opinion without telling a woman how they 'should' look. And both men and women give their input on those types of threads asking for preferences for both men and women. Can no-one have a preference?

The point of the OP was that on here, most of the body shaming is by women. Now, some of that may well be due to the fact that there are more women on this site than men, but I have seen very little body shaming by men, at least to the extent that I have seen it done by women. I find it disheartening the amount of times 'ewww' and 'gross' are uttered here by women.

pudadough

Today I learned that having an opinion is passing judgement!

btw, nice work trolling. You are proving to be a total pro so far. I kinda enjoy it! (at least I hope you're trolling because I have too much respect for the female gender and refuse to think they use men as their scapegoat)

You were ok with me scapegoating other women, though...interesting how that works.

And today I learned that anyone who disagrees with your worldview in any way is "trolling."

Actually I have so far told you to increase your own confidence and self-esteem.

I think what you learned today is wrong. You should be learning that it is wrong to be hateful.

Please stop the hate and blaming others for your failures

Hyperbole is your strong suit. Stop accusing me of "hate" and being "hateful." I merely delivered an honest observation that you didn't like. I don't hate anyone, and I'm not blaming others for my "failures" (which by the way, is a label YOU imposed on the whole thing.) You're pretty arrogant to start doling out psychoanalysis for someone you don't know because they dared to make an honest statement. Trolling indeed.

pudadough

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

I honestly do not get your logic here. Everyone has a preference as to what pleases them aesthetically, but you are saying they cannot have that opinion without telling a woman how they 'should' look. And both men and women give their input on those types of threads asking for preferences for both men and women. Can no-one have a preference?

The point of the OP was that on here, most of the body shaming is by women. Now, some of that may well be due to the fact that there are more women on this site than men, but I have seen very little body shaming by men, at least to the extent that I have seen it done by women. I find it disheartening the amount of times 'ewww' and 'gross' are uttered here by women.

Right, and all I said was that in the real world, I get far more of it from men. People can have a preference, but men are more encouraged to dole out their opinions on our bodies here. How many threads do I see every week asking men what they like in a woman? A lot. A whole lot. Because women are trained from pretty early on to be really really concerned with how men like them to look.

pudadough

Today I learned that having an opinion is passing judgement!

btw, nice work trolling. You are proving to be a total pro so far. I kinda enjoy it! (at least I hope you're trolling because I have too much respect for the female gender and refuse to think they use men as their scapegoat)

You were ok with me scapegoating other women, though...interesting how that works.

And today I learned that anyone who disagrees with your worldview in any way is "trolling."

Actually I have so far told you to increase your own confidence and self-esteem.

I think what you learned today is wrong. You should be learning that it is wrong to be hateful.

Please stop the hate and blaming others for your failures

Hyperbole is your strong suit. Stop accusing me of "hate" and being "hateful." I merely delivered an honest observation that you didn't like. I don't hate anyone, and I'm not blaming others for my "failures" (which by the way, is a label YOU imposed on the whole thing.) You're pretty arrogant to start doling out psychoanalysis for someone you don't know because they dared to make an honest statement. Trolling indeed.

You started this conversation by saying that men are the reason women bash on each other...

Seriously, please stop trolling and spreading hate. This website doesn't need anymore hate

I never said any such thing. Period. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

pudadough

I feel far more body shame from mens' comments and actions than I ever have from women. Because I'm not stupid and can read between the lines. You can say "Oh you're beautiful just the way you are" all day but I still see the women that make the covers of men's magazines and the ones that turn heads the most and I know I'll never ever look even remotely close to that while still eating solid food. Men's reactions to me have shaped my body image, not women. And that's the damn truth.

You are so cute when you try so hard to troll!

Yeah, I still don't see where I'm blaming men for women supposedly tearing each other down. All I said was that I experienced more body shaming from men in real life. Which was not what you said that I said.

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****STAFF NOTE: Post has been edited due to violations of guideline #01****
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

halobender

Well, if it makes either of you feel any better you're both kind of right.

Of course men place a premium on how their partner looks. All men do even if they'll "still love you no matter what you look like."

But there's a phrase out there, something along the lines that "women don't dress for men, they dress for other women"—it's a phrase which has been around for some time, so there must be some truth to it (and we all know there's some to it because we've all seen it played out at least once where girls try to "out-cute" each other).

And I can't believe I'm about to use this term, but, sigh, we aught to avoid this "Nice Guy Syndrome," where you come to expect something just because you're nice. Girls don't just like *kitten*, but being nice to a girl doesn't mean she owes you. (This has been kind of superficially touched on.)

Anyway, all told, most of us are judgmental a-holes. I know I've made comments about other people. Hopefully out of their earshot. But I don't really care how they choose to live their lives at all, and if they want to not workout that's OK.

And, finally: Taunto ... your last post clearly shows how little you comprehended there. Or maybe you didn't understand what you were asserting. The line you quoted in bold in no way says that it's because of men that women bash each other. It says that they've felt more shame from MEN'S COMMENTS than FROM WOMEN. I don't know how you could possibly interpret that to mean that she thinks it's because of men that women bash each other.

pudadough

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

I honestly do not get your logic here. Everyone has a preference as to what pleases them aesthetically, but you are saying they cannot have that opinion without telling a woman how they 'should' look. And both men and women give their input on those types of threads asking for preferences for both men and women. Can no-one have a preference?

The point of the OP was that on here, most of the body shaming is by women. Now, some of that may well be due to the fact that there are more women on this site than men, but I have seen very little body shaming by men, at least to the extent that I have seen it done by women. I find it disheartening the amount of times 'ewww' and 'gross' are uttered here by women.

Right, and all I said was that in the real world, I get far more of it from men. People can have a preference, but men are more encouraged to dole out their opinions on our bodies here. How many threads do I see every week asking men what they like in a woman? A lot. A whole lot. Because women are trained from pretty early on to be really really concerned with how men like them to look.

A question to you, do you think men don't treat you right?

Not particularly. My previous boyfriends have been nice guys. My dad is a nice guy. I hear these comment mostly from guys I know but am not involved with romantically. I think because they are comfortable around me and let their guard down. Maybe a little too much.

Sarauk2sf

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

I honestly do not get your logic here. Everyone has a preference as to what pleases them aesthetically, but you are saying they cannot have that opinion without telling a woman how they 'should' look. And both men and women give their input on those types of threads asking for preferences for both men and women. Can no-one have a preference?

The point of the OP was that on here, most of the body shaming is by women. Now, some of that may well be due to the fact that there are more women on this site than men, but I have seen very little body shaming by men, at least to the extent that I have seen it done by women. I find it disheartening the amount of times 'ewww' and 'gross' are uttered here by women.

Right, and all I said was that in the real world, I get far more of it from men. People can have a preference, but men are more encouraged to dole out their opinions on our bodies here. How many threads do I see every week asking men what they like in a woman? A lot. A whole lot. Because women are trained from pretty early on to be really really concerned with how men like them to look.

I agree that there are a lot, and that there is probably an underlying need, for whatever reason, by some women to understand or want to know a man's preference. However, I am not sure how you can put the blame at the feet of men (which you may not be, that is just the way I am interpreting your statements, rightly or wrongly). There are also a lot of threads started by both men and women asking about their preference regarding a guy's physique. I just do not see it as black and white as you seem to. Also, it still does not detract from the point of the OP as I noted in my first response to your comment.

ETA: on re-reading some of the comments, I am a little confused so I just want to clarify. Are you suggesting that women are more likely to body shame on here due to the actions and/or comments of men IRL? Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just getting a little confused with all the back and forth.

halobender

I don't mean to pry but is everthing ok at home, love? You seem to really want to hate everything about men and any man that disagrees with your hateful thinking

Wow. This ... I just ... what.

Not only is it rude but it's like you're not even reading what others are saying.

halobender

I don't feel like you're being magnanimous—which I've felt like you have been at other points in this thread.

She's not saying that all men do, but that she has felt body shaming more from men than from women. I don't necessarily agree with her points, but she's not making a general statement that it's all men all the time always making her feel badly about her body, but that it does happen, and not from women.

Or, at least, that's a paraphrasing of what I've gathered.

pudadough

Ok, so the men picked the 25%. The point is the men are still passing a judgement on how a woman "should" look. And you don't understand the problem here?

I honestly do not get your logic here. Everyone has a preference as to what pleases them aesthetically, but you are saying they cannot have that opinion without telling a woman how they 'should' look. And both men and women give their input on those types of threads asking for preferences for both men and women. Can no-one have a preference?

The point of the OP was that on here, most of the body shaming is by women. Now, some of that may well be due to the fact that there are more women on this site than men, but I have seen very little body shaming by men, at least to the extent that I have seen it done by women. I find it disheartening the amount of times 'ewww' and 'gross' are uttered here by women.

Right, and all I said was that in the real world, I get far more of it from men. People can have a preference, but men are more encouraged to dole out their opinions on our bodies here. How many threads do I see every week asking men what they like in a woman? A lot. A whole lot. Because women are trained from pretty early on to be really really concerned with how men like them to look.

A question to you, do you think men don't treat you right?

Not particularly. My previous boyfriends have been nice guys. My dad is a nice guy. I hear these comment mostly from guys I know but am not involved with romantically. I think because they are comfortable around me and let their guard down. Maybe a little too much.

Those things they say, for example "that girl has big thighs" is it followed by, "she's unattractive" or "i would never be with a girl like that" or anything that can be considered that it's unattractive?

Fat chick jokes are popular. It's in no way unclear that they find these women unattractive. And the "chicks" in question look more like your 25% lady than anyone really obese. That sends a strong message. But like I said to begin with, it's not just specific comments from certain people, but the whole combination of social messages from lots of different sources.

I also teach middle school and see it there. Boys talking about how "fat" the girls' butts are. I just think a lot of men show a great deal of entitlement in how they talk about female appearance and they don't even see it. I don't think either gender is 100% innocent, I was just saying that *my* experience has been to have men be more critical and entitled about my appearance. But, YMMV as they say.

pudadough

I don't feel like you're being magnanimous—which I've felt like you have been at other points in this thread.

She's not saying that all men do, but that she has felt body shaming more from men than from women. I don't necessarily agree with her points, but she's not making a general statement that it's all men all the time always making her feel badly about her body, but that it does happen, and not from women.

Or, at least, that's a paraphrasing of what I've gathered.

You're correct.

pudadough

I don't feel like you're being magnanimous—which I've felt like you have been at other points in this thread.

She's not saying that all men do, but that she has felt body shaming more from men than from women. I don't necessarily agree with her points, but she's not making a general statement that it's all men all the time always making her feel badly about her body, but that it does happen, and not from women.

Or, at least, that's a paraphrasing of what I've gathered.

Fat chick jokes are popular. It's in no way unclear that they find these women unattractive. And the "chicks" in question look more like your 25% lady than anyone really obese. That sends a strong message. But like I said to begin with, it's not just specific comments from certain people, but the whole combination of social messages from lots of different sources.

I also teach middle school and see it there. Boys talking about how "fat" the girls' butts are. I just think men, in general, show a great deal of entitlement in how they talk about female appearance and they don't even see it. I don't think either gender is 100% innocent, I was just saying that *my* experience has been to have men be more critical and entitled about my appearance. But, YMMV as they say

that is generalization right there good sir. I am going back to asking her if everything is ok, purely because this person seem to be having some trouble with the male gender in her life. I mean, even the kids are considered women bashing now?

I'll bite. They're learning it somewhere...