Just watched Forks Over Knives...

greenmeena

People aren't going to stop eating meat. I would rather people support local farms, and grass-fed/ humanely raised animals. I'm speaking as a vet, too!! People love their meat, our bodies love meat- so rather than black and white, all or nothing, educating folk and encouraging people to eat local is really the way to go. I was vegan and/or vegetarian for a long time and had lots of GI issues which pretty much went away when I began to eat meat again. I eat consciously, locally- it's expensive but I vote with my dollars. Support local farms, happy local animals (who you can see and visit!) and decentralize large factory farms- whether you're an omnivore or vegetarian.

queenbelove

I watched that movie too. But MOVIES are just another way media tries to shake us and change our way of thinking and in this case eating. I'd research a bit more before cutting out the deliciousness of dairy (I'm already a vegetarian haha) it has so many benefits and is delicious!

So, I take it you are a Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian? I have done research before, but my issue is that dairy makes me sick. The benefits don't outweigh the problems for me. However, I do agree with you about the deliciousness of it (well, as far as cheese goes, because I haven't been able to drink milk in years).

queenbelove

Happy Herbavores is a great group here on MFP. We share lots of recipes and there are tons of us new(er) vegans to support each other.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/62-happy-herbivores

Thanks!

EvgeniZyntx

Be very careful just watching documentaries like these and taking them on face value.

They are not neutral investigations, they have a conclusion already and then show you want they want to fit that conclusion.

There are a lot of write-ups on the net showing the flaws in this movie (and it is a movie, not a documentary) if you use Google.

Here's one if you cant be bothered:

http://yourdoctorsorders.com/2012/05/forks-over-knives/

And another more well known one:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/



You can pick holes in either side I guess, but Forks Over Knives is giving you one opinion and interpretation of data only. You should always see other interpretations and even research stuff yourself and learn rather than believe anything you see on tv or in the media.

Thanks for the info. I will look into it.

Please do. I'm all for people becoming vegetarians/vegans for ethical reasons but don't let things like forks over knives, or the china study, convince you of things.

I'd actually like any info you have about why the china study is so horribly flawed. genuinely curious.

There is a good summary here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-china-study-revisited/

greenmeena

Also- research showing meat making people sick is skewed. All the meat researched is from factory farmed animals who are fed large amounts of corn (etc) and not eating a natural diet they were evolved to eat. Cows fed corn and silage have an imbalanced fatty acid profile, favoring Omega 6 over Omega 3- increasing inflammatory mediators in the body. Same goes for chickens, and farmed salmon (incredibly inflammatory!!!). Increasing inflammatory mediators in the body is what encourages heart disease, not the meat itself. Vilifying meat this way is short sighted. Grass fed beef is actually quite high in Omega 3s. Just like venison- some of the healthiest meats out there!

And there is a lot to be said for moderation. No one needs a 16 oz steak, really.

Topher1978

Now, why would meat and dairy be bad for an animal that evolved to eat meat and dairy and is designed to eat meat and dairy?

CoachReddy

Also- research showing meat making people sick is skewed. All the meat researched is from factory farmed animals who are fed large amounts of corn (etc) and not eating a natural diet they were evolved to eat. Cows fed corn and silage have an imbalanced fatty acid profile, favoring Omega 6 over Omega 3- increasing inflammatory mediators in the body. Same goes for chickens, and farmed salmon (incredibly inflammatory!!!). Increasing inflammatory mediators in the body is what encourages heart disease, not the meat itself. Vilifying meat this way is short sighted. Grass fed beef is actually quite high in Omega 3s. Just like venison- some of the healthiest meats out there!

And there is a lot to be said for moderation. No one needs a 16 oz steak, really.

right - but the point is that the majority of americans aren't eating grass-fed beef. they're eating the cheapest stuff available, which is also the crappiest.

(i do agree with every bit of your first post)

yourenotmine

My thoughts on the Vegan/Vegetarian thing is this: If it's something that you want to do for yourself, do it. If you feel your health will benefit and you want to do it go for it. Don't do it because some video/person/book/website/etc... told you it was the best way to live your life. The best way to live your life is the way you want to. If what you are doing right now is making you healthy and happy and you don't feel you need to change then don't. Only make the change if it's what you feel is best for you.

That's just my 2 cents.

What if I want to live my life smoking crack. Is that the best for me?

Dude, that's your business. Just don't have babies or kill anyone.

queenbelove

My thoughts on the Vegan/Vegetarian thing is this: If it's something that you want to do for yourself, do it. If you feel your health will benefit and you want to do it go for it. Don't do it because some video/person/book/website/etc... told you it was the best way to live your life. The best way to live your life is the way you want to. If what you are doing right now is making you healthy and happy and you don't feel you need to change then don't. Only make the change if it's what you feel is best for you.

That's just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your 2 cents! I completely agree, and I apparently gave the wrong impression with my post. I am not doing it, or thinking about doing it, because of the movie. The movie made me rethink what I have been eating, what I like to eat, how my body reacts to certain foods, and how I can improve on my previous attempt at vegetarianism. It is not for everyone to do, and I can respect that. I'm glad you do as well.

queenbelove

I was all for it too when I watched it. Then I did some research of my own and found out that there is some seriously flawed data in that movie. Check out this review. It's probably the world's longest movie review but it explains the errors in detail.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

Thanks. I will check it out.

moustache_flavored_lube

Eat whole foods, not to much, mostly plants

Meat and dairy are good for you. Most bioligists / nutritionist agree on this.

My advice would be to work hard to improve your diet to include a greater variety of healthy vegetables. Vegitarian cookbooks are a great place to get ideas.

Fish
eggs
chicken breast
turkey breast
greek yogurt

Have a place in a healthy diet

ashleyking3194

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

CoachReddy

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

:drinker: this!!

moustache_flavored_lube

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

Yes please keep an open mind

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-china-study-revisited/

If a vegan diet works for you, and you feel healthier because of it. Fine. (I think it is far better than the average American's diet)

This movie / book is not scientific proof that meat and dairy are responsible for degenerative disease

EvanKeel

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

And other people have posted links to criticisms of the research in a non-rude and dismissive manner. It looks as if you have a strong desire to research. As proponent of one side of the discussion, I'm curious what your reasoned response is to the criticism.

angelams1019

I watched Forks Over Knives yesterday and took EVERYTHING from it EXCEPT "Stop eating meat and you won't die!!" I'm just not willing to give it up! :drinker:

CoachReddy

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

And other people have posted links to criticisms of the research in a non-rude and dismissive manner. It looks as if you have a strong desire to research. As proponent of one side of the discussion, I'm curious what your reasoned response is to the criticism.

where has this been posted? would love to see it. already asked once.

EvanKeel

Try reading the book, The China Study (the movie was based off some of the research found in this book). My family (in-laws and husband's extended family) follow this way of eating for health reasons as well as many of my friends. It is an amazing lifestyle. I strongly recommend checking it out if you were impressed by this movie. After that, make small changes at a time. Don't do it all at once. And even then, 80/20 is a good rule of thumb... eating this way 80 percent of the time and allowing yourself some dietary freedom 20 percent of the time.

Also, it is a shame so many on here are insulting and rude and are dismissing this lifestyle right off the bat without understanding the mounds of documented research that supports this way of life. Right down to showing links to breast cancer and liver cancer. Anyhow, I applaud your open minded attitude toward pursuing health.

And other people have posted links to criticisms of the research in a non-rude and dismissive manner. It looks as if you have a strong desire to research. As proponent of one side of the discussion, I'm curious what your reasoned response is to the criticism.

where has this been posted? would love to see it. already asked once.

And someone answered you on page 2. I believe someone also posted something on page 3, though perhaps before you asked a second time. But here's the previous response:

Be very careful just watching documentaries like these and taking them on face value.

They are not neutral investigations, they have a conclusion already and then show you want they want to fit that conclusion.

There are a lot of write-ups on the net showing the flaws in this movie (and it is a movie, not a documentary) if you use Google.

Here's one if you cant be bothered:

http://yourdoctorsorders.com/2012/05/forks-over-knives/

And another more well known one:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/



You can pick holes in either side I guess, but Forks Over Knives is giving you one opinion and interpretation of data only. You should always see other interpretations and even research stuff yourself and learn rather than believe anything you see on tv or in the media.

Thanks for the info. I will look into it.

Please do. I'm all for people becoming vegetarians/vegans for ethical reasons but don't let things like forks over knives, or the china study, convince you of things.

I'd actually like any info you have about why the china study is so horribly flawed. genuinely curious.

There is a good summary here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-china-study-revisited/

Vercell

i just watched epic meal time and now im thinking about eating bacon and drinking copious amounts of alcohol

moustache_flavored_lube

where has this been posted? would love to see it. already asked once.