Social Policing of "did you get your flu shot?" Yay or nay?
Replies
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Herd immunity was a theory they disproved.
It makes me smh when I hear people say things they have no idea about.
Immunizations are a multi-billion dollar industry.
Do you really think that everyone is going to just stop using them if they've been proven harmful?
How many of you don't realize that there are a lot of drs that don't immunize their children, or themselves.
Who is 'they', and please post links to this study. Without these, this post contains a great deal of irony, and little information.
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-03-12/the-science-behind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/
http://journal.livingfood.us/2012/02/24/vaccines-the-fallacy-and-truth-about-herd-immunity/
There's lots more, and I know directly on the CDC website they state it's
a THEORY.
I'll try to find it later.0 -
I didn't get mine. And I don't plan on every getting one. If I'm gonna get sick, I'll take care of things myself. But in general, I do try to keep to more natural way of living, keeping it simple. I don't like going to the doctor unless I absolute need to health wise. And the only shot I'll stick to getting are only my Tetanus shots. Reason for that shot...I work on a farm and I come across a few rusted objects here and there.0
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Herd immunity was a theory they disproved.
It makes me smh when I hear people say things they have no idea about.
Immunizations are a multi-billion dollar industry.
Do you really think that everyone is going to just stop using them if they've been proven harmful?
How many of you don't realize that there are a lot of drs that don't immunize their children, or themselves.
Who is 'they', and please post links to this study. Without these, this post contains a great deal of irony, and little information.
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-03-12/the-science-behind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/
http://journal.livingfood.us/2012/02/24/vaccines-the-fallacy-and-truth-about-herd-immunity/
There's lots more, and I know directly on the CDC website they state it's
a THEORY.
I'll try to find it later.
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.0 -
Herd immunity was a theory they disproved.
It makes me smh when I hear people say things they have no idea about.
Immunizations are a multi-billion dollar industry.
Do you really think that everyone is going to just stop using them if they've been proven harmful?
How many of you don't realize that there are a lot of drs that don't immunize their children, or themselves.
You shake your head when you hear people say things they have no idea about, yet you are in here doing the same?0 -
Herd immunity was a theory they disproved.
It makes me smh when I hear people say things they have no idea about.
Immunizations are a multi-billion dollar industry.
Do you really think that everyone is going to just stop using them if they've been proven harmful?
How many of you don't realize that there are a lot of drs that don't immunize their children, or themselves.
Who is 'they', and please post links to this study. Without these, this post contains a great deal of irony, and little information.
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-03-12/the-science-behind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/
http://journal.livingfood.us/2012/02/24/vaccines-the-fallacy-and-truth-about-herd-immunity/
There's lots more, and I know directly on the CDC website they state it's
a THEORY.
I'll try to find it later.
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
Oh hi, do I smell rationality?0 -
Nobody has ever asked me but I can't get them because of an allergy.0
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While it is a personal choice, I feel that it is socially irresponsible to not get one. Roughly 90% of the population in a given area need to be immune in order for "herd immunity" to take place. The remaining 10% should be made up of those who have allergic reactions or sensitivities to such immunizations. A normal healthy adult who does not get one puts others at risk.
I'm one of those people who have severe allergic reactions to certain vaccinations - so I say GO GET YOUR FLU SHOTS PEOPLE SINCE I CAN'T GET ONE!! Haha
I don't know though, I'm a molecular biology PhD student and a lot of people in my department hem and haw over whether they're all that effective or not.0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
Ya' know, even though I am on the other side of the fence in this debate, I can't help but applaud every time I see an "it's just a theory" attempt slapped to the ground.0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
Ya' know, even though I am on the other side of the fence in this debate, I can't help but applaud every time I see an "it's just a theory" attempt slapped to the ground.
Agreed. I'm not so entrenched in my own opinions that I wouldn't switch to the other side if given proper evidence. Anecdotal evidence, "just a theory" arguments, and opinion pieces aren't very compelling.0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
I long for a "like" function on MFP0 -
Agreed. I'm not so entrenched in my own opinions that I wouldn't switch to the other side if given proper evidence. Anecdotal evidence, "just a theory" arguments, and opinion pieces aren't very compelling.
Quite honestly, it comes down to the fact that I am one of those people who won't even take Tylenol for a headache, so letting someone inject me with ANYTHING is out of the question. It's honestly the only thing that keeps me from using steroids to help speed up my lifting progress, but that's of course a different topic for a different time.0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
Ya' know, even though I am on the other side of the fence in this debate, I can't help but applaud every time I see an "it's just a theory" attempt slapped to the ground.
Agreed. I'm not so entrenched in my own opinions that I wouldn't switch to the other side if given proper evidence. Anecdotal evidence, "just a theory" arguments, and opinion pieces aren't very compelling.
Yeah, even when I am fairly sure these supporting documents being offerred are biased, I will always do the poster the courtesy of checking the links myself. The first one links to a perosnal website of a purported doctor called 'end-o-times watch!' (or something), with various anti-vac, anti-gov and anti-obama posts.... at that point I made up my mind. Heirarchy of evidence quality is sorely lacking in this debate.0 -
Agreed. I'm not so entrenched in my own opinions that I wouldn't switch to the other side if given proper evidence. Anecdotal evidence, "just a theory" arguments, and opinion pieces aren't very compelling.
Quite honestly, it comes down to the fact that I am one of those people who won't even take Tylenol for a headache, so letting someone inject me with ANYTHING is out of the question. It's honestly the only thing that keeps me from using steroids to help speed up my lifting progress, but that's of course a different topic for a different time.
I know what you mean. I do vaccines grudgingly and hate taking medicine for anything if I don't have to.0 -
I never get the flu shot, and I haven't gotten the flu since I was 6. Hand-washing, plenty of rest, and a healthy diet are still, in my opinion, the best ways to fight illness. I've often wondered just what kind of crap solution those shots are in.0
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I've had friends ask me...but just out of curiosity since I have little ones.
We do not get the flu shot.
I prefer to wash hands, cover our mouths, use kleenex's...etc.0 -
I've already given my more-than-necessary opinion.
But, when RobynC79 posts about science and stuff, I listen...She knows her stuffage.0 -
No flu shot. I don't care about it 1 bit. I get it that law enforcement/teachers etc are required to have them, because they are dealing with a fuarkload of groce snotty kids/people daily.0
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No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
I might have my first girl crush.0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
I might have my first girl crush.
My sentiments exactly!0 -
No, actual studies, not opinion pieces from anti-vac blogs.
Also, you evidently are unfamiliar with the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity - also a theory. Evolution by natural selection - also a theory.
A theory in science is a broad statement that explains the way things are currently, makes defined predictions about future outcomes that can be tested, and efforts made on that front (testing these predictions) to date have supported the theory.
'Theory' is used colloquially quite differently, as an untested conjecture. Very, very different to a scientific theory.
I might have my first girl crush.
My sentiments exactly!
Dibs.0 -
I got the flu shot in late October and I just got over the flu. My daughter got her flu shot around the same time and she just got over the flu.
As for social policing, it has now become so everyday to accuse people that don't appear to hold the interest of all the people in mind of being selfish or irresponsible. I don't usually get a flu shot. I got it this year because I was having surgery and traveling times two. Otherwise, I don't get it.
Why don't I get it?
How many of you know that HIV was started with Hepatitis vaccinations?
How many of you know that some cancers where spread with polio vaccinations?
This is true information. Research it yourself.
Vaccinations are risky. Each vaccination should be considered as being a drug because it is illiciting a particular response from your body. It is a foreign substance being put into your body. Because it is a foreign substance, you could experience an adverse event from something as simple as a flu vaccination.
People have experienced a variety of things from flu vaccinations, including:
Twitches
Neurological damage
Guillian Barre syndrome
Seizures
Severe fevers
Coma
Death
Because of what vaccinations are made of, there is always the possibility of the inherent components crossing the blood-brain barrier and causing encephalitis or meningitis. Additionally, the person could experience the disease for which they are being vaccinated.
Vaccinations are not a free ride.
One other thing to consider is the fact that when children had childhood diseases, they were essentially giving adults a booster shot for that disease. This is most noticeable with Chickenpox. Since the introduction of the chickenpox vaccination, shingles has been affecting younger and younger people. This is because adults are no longer being exposed to chickenpox and, therefore, are not getting that 'booster shot' from being exposed to the disease.
And don't believe them when they say that you are protected from shingles if you get the chickenpox vaccination. At 40 years of age, I received that vaccination and I now get shingles about every other year.
One other thing to consider: Currently, the recommendation is that people who will be around newborn get a booster pertussis vaccination. I had pertussis, also known as whooping cough, as a child. When they ran titers on me for nursing school, the one thing the doctor said was that he had never seen a person with a titer like mine in regards to pertussis. Having pertussis as a child means that I am forever immune from the disease. Unfortunately, I cannot receive a tetanus vaccination that also has pertussis because I have severe reactions to the pertussis part of the vaccination. This is because of my heightened reaction to pertussis invading my body.
I am a firm believer that people should have the right to choose whether they want to have any vaccination. Parents have the right to choose what vaccinations their children should have. As a nurse, I know that medical information is private information and it is a breach of HIPAA to release said information. So what right do people have to know whether I received the flu vaccination, or any vaccination for that matter? That is my own business and that is what I tell people when they ask me about such things.0 -
so what's a good answer when people are getting nosy? I asked on another post and someone said stfu, but I can't go around saying that to p.t.a. moms?
Either just say yes to appease them or say "I am sorry, but I don't feel comfortable sharing my health care choices." Personally I find it incredibly rude of them to even ask.
But if you don't get them, I urge you to reconsider. Your choice to NOT get one could cost another, a baby or an elderly person most likely, their lives.
Babies, children and elderly people usually are the ONLY people that need flu shots unless you have an immunity disorder or you work around the elderly, children, or immunity deficiant which includes sick or wounded people. Most places only order a specific amount of flu shots, and then when they run out, that's it, they wont order more. So if a healthy adult is getting a flu shot, there is a higher chance that they are taking it away from someone who actually needs it.0 -
If you are at increased risk from something, isn't it your responsibility to protect yourself from that, instead of it being the job of the other 7 billion people on the planet? If I thought getting the flu would kill me, I'd wear a freakin hazmat suit if that's what it took to protect me from it.0
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How many of you know that HIV was started with Hepatitis vaccinations?
How many of you know that some cancers where spread with polio vaccinations?
The material in your post about known side effects is very good info thanks for posting it.
But I have to call out both of these quoted assertions as being unsubstantiated.
The first is widely accepted to be false as newer information shows a clear progression using sequence data from SIV that infected humans and ended up as HIV. Just because typical SIV is not zoonotic (humans cannot catch by normal means of transmission), does not preclude a natural mutation event that made the virus virulent in humans. The original basis for the hepatitis/HIV link suggested an advent of HIV in the '50s. The disease is now dated some 20-30 years before that, suggesting it was present in humans as HIV prior to the purported causative event.
The second is interesting - when the Sabin vaccine was made in macaques, markers of a simian virus called SV-40 was found in some purified vaccine. No new vaccines have this possibility. Several studies since, and particularly, one very large study (~700,000 people) showed no association between receiving the vaccine that may have contained SV-40 and increased cancer incidence.
However, I think this one is not as clear cut as the first - there is conflicting molecular evidence about the presence of SV-40 sequences in tumor tissue, but it is far from conclusive. Again, modern polio vaccines contain zero risk of SV-40 presence.0 -
The flut shot is a shot in the dark. It doesn't protect against all strains. It's an educated guess as to what strains might be dominant that flu season.
The flu shot is only 59% effective. I didn't make that up. It comes from a study published in The Lancet. The meta analysis of flu vaccine studies found that evidence is lacking that flu shot offers protection in adults aged 65 years or older.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/abstract0 -
I got it and so did my son.0
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How many of you know that HIV was started with Hepatitis vaccinations?
How many of you know that some cancers where spread with polio vaccinations?
The material in your post about known side effects is very good info thanks for posting it.
But I have to call out both of these quoted assertions as being unsubstantiated.
The first is widely accepted to be false as newer information shows a clear progression using sequence data from SIV that infected humans and ended up as HIV. Just because typical SIV is not zoonotic (humans cannot catch by normal means of transmission), does not preclude a natural mutation event that made the virus virulent in humans. The original basis for the hepatitis/HIV link suggested an advent of HIV in the '50s. The disease is now dated some 20-30 years before that, suggesting it was present in humans as HIV prior to the purported causative event.
The second is interesting - when the Sabin vaccine was made in macaques, markers of a simian virus called SV-40 was found in some purified vaccine. No new vaccines have this possibility. Several studies since, and particularly, one very large study (~700,000 people) showed no association between receiving the vaccine that may have contained SV-40 and increased cancer incidence.
However, I think this one is not as clear cut as the first - there is conflicting molecular evidence about the presence of SV-40 sequences in tumor tissue, but it is far from conclusive. Again, modern polio vaccines contain zero risk of SV-40 presence.
Well, since I previously stated that I trust your posts, define "new" and "modern".....0 -
I don't know about that...I might have a problem allowing my son to play with other children whose parents refuse to immunize them. Then it becomes my problem in a roundabout way. People are free to make their own medical choices, but I think everyone who could be negatively affected by those choices should have a right to know about it, don't you think?0
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The flut shot is a shot in the dark. It doesn't protect against all strains. It's an educated guess as to what strains might be dominant that flu season.
The flu shot is only 59% effective. I didn't make that up. It comes from a study published in The Lancet. The meta analysis of flu vaccine studies found that evidence is lacking that flu shot offers protection in adults aged 65 years or older.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/abstract
This is a really interesting and very rigorous analysis (I have the full study if you'd like to read it, PM me). The % efficacy is interesting because it ranges widely from year to year and is very different in different age groups. In general, the Live Attenuated vaccine (nasal spray) is generally very effective in children, whereas the dead vaccine is more effective in older age groups.
The lack of evidence for efficacy in older persons is due to no studies (among many screened) that met the study criteria of daignosis for inclusion. But as always, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. A quick PubMed search turns up this one:
"Effectiveness and harms of seasonal and pandemic influenza vaccines in children, adults and elderly: A critical review and re-analysis of 15 meta-analyses" Lamberto Manzoli, John P.A. Ioannidis, Maria Elena Flacco, Corrado De Vito and Paolo Villari
Which does consider efficacy in the elderly, and finds the vaccine to be significantly more effective than a placebo (58% effective), i.e., a 58% reduction in the risk of getting the flu compared with unvaccinated people. So yes, the flu vaccine is always les than 100% effective because there are many strains of flu with low incidence that are not included. But for high risk groups (groups prone to infection and/or likely to suffer severe illness), a 60% reduction in risk is very substantial.0 -
How many of you know that HIV was started with Hepatitis vaccinations?
How many of you know that some cancers where spread with polio vaccinations?
The material in your post about known side effects is very good info thanks for posting it.
But I have to call out both of these quoted assertions as being unsubstantiated.
The first is widely accepted to be false as newer information shows a clear progression using sequence data from SIV that infected humans and ended up as HIV. Just because typical SIV is not zoonotic (humans cannot catch by normal means of transmission), does not preclude a natural mutation event that made the virus virulent in humans. The original basis for the hepatitis/HIV link suggested an advent of HIV in the '50s. The disease is now dated some 20-30 years before that, suggesting it was present in humans as HIV prior to the purported causative event.
The second is interesting - when the Sabin vaccine was made in macaques, markers of a simian virus called SV-40 was found in some purified vaccine. No new vaccines have this possibility. Several studies since, and particularly, one very large study (~700,000 people) showed no association between receiving the vaccine that may have contained SV-40 and increased cancer incidence.
However, I think this one is not as clear cut as the first - there is conflicting molecular evidence about the presence of SV-40 sequences in tumor tissue, but it is far from conclusive. Again, modern polio vaccines contain zero risk of SV-40 presence.
Well, since I previously stated that I trust your posts, define "new" and "modern".....
It is my understanding that no samples of vaccine since the early 1960s in the US have tested positive for SV-40 gene products. This suggests that the cell lines used to produce the vaccine are completely free of SV-40, unlike the early cell lines dervied from simian kidney cells. Since SV-40 can be detected and is known to be of concern, it is almost certainly ('almost' because I am not familiar with the testing process for the vaccine) a routine test down on the cell line regularly as part of their quality control.
In other countries I see that SV-40 has been found in vaccine up to the early 80s, but not since. So anyone in the US vaccinated after 1963 and in other non US countries after 1980 should have zero risk of SV-40 material being present in the vaccine they received.
This is from the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/archive/polio_and_cancer_factsheet.htm0
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