No Homo?

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  • bmiller211
    bmiller211 Posts: 222 Member
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    why is everyone so obsessed with the gay thing? I always hear they just want to be accepted as equals yet they are constantly throwing s**t like this in everyones faces...everyone gets offended sometimes but most don't constantly have to complain about it...grow up and get some balls and let it run off you!! I am fat have been have been ridiculed for it!!! should I get on here and start a thread about it!!??:explode: :grumble:
  • Gjallarhorn
    Gjallarhorn Posts: 87
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    I'm not insecure in my sexuality at all, but traditionally you don't compliment another guy. It's just a hangover from a still evolving primarily stereotypically masculine world. This isn't going to change any time soon, so get used to it :)
    Well, if we get used to it, it certainly isn't going to change any time soon. That seems pretty counter-productive.
    The idea that people will not stop using a term is not news. By even caring about it you give it power. No Homo, Bro.
  • Food4Fuel
    Food4Fuel Posts: 37 Member
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    In summary can someone state they aren't homosexual without implying its bad to be homosexual?
  • zoose
    zoose Posts: 10
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    Ok fair, and I see your point. I just think its a bit of an assumption that simpling saying "no homo" is rooted in insecurities about sexual identity

    Not insecurity about ones own identity necessarily. Rather, insecurity about being perceived that way. Perhaps based on the same fear of retribution that homos might have. To the point I made about not making the clarification to women on here, you wouldnt feel too worried about a woman on here mistaking your intentions, because there isnt any stigma attached to it. So its just not a clarification you see guys making when complimenting women they arent attracted to. The insecurity is specific to being perceived as a homo. This cultural norm is based on prejudice. All it does is lead to shame, guilt, denial, and being made to feel inferior for those of us who actually are homos.
    In summary can someone state they aren't homosexual without implying its bad to be homosexual?

    Depends on why you are making the statement in the first place. If you are saying it because you dont want someone to perceive you as being a homosexual as if it was some personal flaw, as with the 'no homo' meme, then there is the inherent suggestion that there is something wrong with being a homo. On the other hand, if you are saying you arent a homo to a homo that hit on you (rather than gathering up your bros for a fagbashing session), then, well, that should be encouraged.
  • wikitbikit
    wikitbikit Posts: 518 Member
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    The idea that people will not stop using a term is not news. By even caring about it you give it power. No Homo, Bro.
    That is so far from the point that it makes my head hurt.

    And please, don't ask me what the point is because you have participated in this thread long enough that if you're going to get it, you would have already.
  • MM_1982
    MM_1982 Posts: 374
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    Are the majority of guys on this site so insecure with their sexuality that if they compliment another guy, they have to end the comment with "no homo"? As a gay guy, I find this kind of insulting. As if being gay is something I should be ashamed of and requires a disclaimer. Yes homo.

    Mirin' your red jacket OP. Looks very comfy.

    no homo.
  • chrishgt4
    chrishgt4 Posts: 1,222 Member
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    Irony.
    Says he's not racist. Posts racist joke.

    irony,
    says joke is racist, doesnt understand what the word racist means.

    I'd say jingoist or xenophobic or even anti-semitic but I want to make sure you get it.

    In the common-day parlance, "racist" has become the cognitive synonym of those terms for this type of attempted humor at the cost of a social/ethnic group. Your example is racist in that sense. To try to worm your way out of it is at best a "no true dutchman" fallacy - no joke is truly racist by the tightest definition of racism if it doesn't specifically speak about races, it's still an attempt to get a chuckle (a poor one) by the denigration of an cultural minority or ethnic group.

    In case you can't get that and need simple definitions, here you go: your joke is offensive.

    Clearly missing the point of the joke...

    Just so you are clear let me spell it out - the joke sets up as if it is a racist joke with the expected outcome being one of making light of some dead Arab people. It then flips it, drawing attention to one's original assumption and making us question our own ideas and prejudices.

    The only person who should be offended by that joke is the hardcore racist.

    That joke has its source from the old well known and often repeated "What do you call 10 xxx (lawyers, etc) at the bottom of the ocean. A good start."

    But sure, an attempt to create a "gotcha" moment using the contiguity of racist elements to poke fun at what might be internalized racist prejudices or just simply the way language works - rote and formula are part of speech patterns.

    It does draw attention to those - but I'm doubting it questions anything.

    If the joke was never finished and and just left to hang with the question, I'd still call it racist. It doesn't get a free pass from the de-escalated punchline - given that the visual image one creates with the set-up is contextual.

    Acknowledging that racist stereotypes exist is not racist.

    The people who are the butt (no homo) of this joke are racists.
  • ItsCasey
    ItsCasey Posts: 4,022 Member
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    Just what we needed ... something else for someone to be offended by.

    Lighten up. I don't get my panties in a twist when someone makes a joke about a guy being a p***y. This is the real world. There are people who view things differently than you do, and no matter what you may think, nobody has some pre-ordained right to get through their day without seeing or hearing anything that offends them.
  • chrishgt4
    chrishgt4 Posts: 1,222 Member
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    'Then why use it' - as I said - to acknowledge the comedy of a statement that can be taken in another way like a double entendre. Much like "that's what she said" or "said the actress to the bishop".

    Also - if we assume the comment is made seriously, and not as a joke (at no one's expense). Just because my view on homosexuality is neutral, that doesn't mean that I would necessarily want people to think that I was homosexual. Especially if I had paid a complement to a person and thought they may take it in the sense that it was a sexual advance. That would be embarrassing. Similarly; I don't hate women, but I would be upset if a person thought I was a woman.

    Similarly, I would expect that a homosexual person would, whilst probably not bothered much either way in most circumstances, not want to be thought of as heterosexual - particularly in circumstances where it could change people's perceptions of the comments they are making. i.e. sexual advance vs genuine compliment.

    Those are all fair points but it does not detract from the fact that a person could simply use other language to convey their embarrassment that the man in question may think you are making a sexual advance. Why do this? Tying the making of a sexual advance to the words "no homo" when you are intending to make a compliment instead of saying "I'm not hitting on you dude so keep your pants on" for example is problematic.

    It is a (much) more diluted form of the idea that somehow gay people are "different" (other than sexual orientation of course ;) and unable to control their urges. The more extreme versions of course are the way conversations can turn to bestiality when discussing if homosexuality is natural or paedophilia when discussing gay people adopting.

    Our minds work by association, on many levels unconscious, and sometimes ideas are insidious - they creep in and take root. Perpetuating a negative association, while it may not be intended at all, will impact more on a group who are traditionally more oppressed than the group which is in a dominant position or one of power.

    Simply because a person does not intend to cause harm by making a "joke" does not mean it will not happen (even though it may not be direct of course)

    All of your second paragraph is you putting some huge weight of social commentary onto a tiny little statement.

    Context and intention are everything. If I were to complement a guy and say "I don't mean that in a gay way - I am not gay and I am not hitting on you", you could interpret that as me meaning "...ugh, gay...that's dirty...bleh.." or you could interpret it as me saying "I don't mean that in a gay way - I am not gay and I am not hitting on you".

    If you choose to take it the former way, that is your issue. I believe there is a right to not be offended, but when people get offended by nothing jokes like this, they are abusing that right and ultimately diminishing that right for those who genuinely should be using it.
  • apg2302
    apg2302 Posts: 667
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    It is a sad fact that negative opinions that are affectatious towards anyone who goes against the grain of what has traditionally been percieved as the norm are prevalent among vast swathes of even the most liberal of civilised society. Whether it is the quite frankly ridiculous and outdated racism that still plagues pockets of society or indeed even the term discussed here, the fact of the matter is that it will take generations and a good deal more common sense and liberal thinking than I believe is possible to eradicate such thinking. Not that I'm an advocate of pandering towards requests that often border on absurd or indeed repressing free opinion.
    The simplest thing to do is merely accept that people are all unique and have different thoughts. Life is too short to take offence at a term with an obvious and explainable reason behind, hence my stating 'Get used to it' :)
  • zoose
    zoose Posts: 10
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    why is everyone so obsessed with the gay thing? I always hear they just want to be accepted as equals yet they are constantly throwing s**t like this in everyones faces...everyone gets offended sometimes but most don't constantly have to complain about it...grow up and get some balls and let it run off you!! I am fat have been have been ridiculed for it!!! should I get on here and start a thread about it!!??:explode: :grumble:

    There are a few differences. You can't change gay, nor is it a diseased state of the body. One does usually choose to be fat, however, as a result of their chosen activity level and food intake (disease and disability not withstanding.) Obesity has objective negative impacts on society, personal health, and family health. Not that that justifies bullying. There is just a bit of truth to the criticisms of obesity. Trust me, we have plenty of balls. We deal with crap on a daily basis that you couldnt even imagine. Some of us find strength in adversity, and sadly many others never find that strength, as evidenced by the extremely high rate of suicide among LGBT peoples, 2nd only to suicide rates among the elderly in the West. Its a completely different thing.

    Im sure there are plenty of other discussions on here that you don't find relevant to yourself. Do you join those discussions and criticize those people for engaging in a discussion you are not interested in? If you want to know why everyone is 'obsessed with the gay thing' you might consider reading what we are saying.
  • Food4Fuel
    Food4Fuel Posts: 37 Member
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    Ok fair, and I see your point. I just think its a bit of an assumption that simpling saying "no homo" is rooted in insecurities about sexual identity

    Not insecurity about ones own identity necessarily. Rather, insecurity about being perceived that way. Perhaps based on the same fear of retribution that homos might have. To the point I made about not making the clarification to women on here, you wouldnt feel too worried about a woman on here mistaking your intentions, because there isnt any stigma attached to it. So its just not a clarification you see guys making when complimenting women they arent attracted to. The insecurity is specific to being perceived as a homo. This cultural norm is based on prejudice. All it does is lead to shame, guilt, denial, and being made to feel inferior for those of us who actually are homos.
    I agree to an extent. I get the distinction between implying one is straight and not gay as one group is not historically persecuted for their orientation. I'm more arguing for arguments sake as I can really see both sides. However, I am also inclined to think that the cultural norm doesn't have to be solely based in prejudice. Like any argument the reality probably lands somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. I do believe that I can state I'm not gay, even emphatically so without intentionally implying their is something wrong with being gay. I'm also not a dog despite my profile picture implying I most definitely am, however I do not feel it is wrong to be a dog.
  • Gjallarhorn
    Gjallarhorn Posts: 87
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    The idea that people will not stop using a term is not news. By even caring about it you give it power. No Homo, Bro.
    That is so far from the point that it makes my head hurt.

    And please, don't ask me what the point is because you have participated in this thread long enough that if you're going to get it, you would have already.

    Not sure I really care about the actual point. If your head hurts I would suggest Tylenol, though. Really, I'm here for the drama. I'm a very bored and sad human being, and I need to get my excitement here for fear that I will wake up having blacked out, naked and lying next to a dead deer.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    All of your second paragraph is you putting some huge weight of social commentary onto a tiny little statement.

    I didn't intend it that way so perhaps I could have worded it differently. It is a contributes, in a small part to prejudice. Is it the worst thing in the world? No, of course not. That does not negate the fact that it still plays a role.
    Context and intention are everything. If I were to complement a guy and say "I don't mean that in a gay way - I am not gay and I am not hitting on you", you could interpret that as me meaning "...ugh, gay...that's dirty...bleh.." or you could interpret it as me saying "I don't mean that in a gay way - I am not gay and I am not hitting on you".

    Agreed but sometimes, even with the best intentions, our actions generate outcomes we would prefer they didn't. Therefore having a rational conversation about issues such as these will be of benefit to everyone. Most people are good and well intentioned. Sometimes it is good to be reminded of that
    If you choose to take it the former way, that is your issue. I believe there is a right to not be offended, but when people get offended by nothing jokes like this, they are abusing that right and ultimately diminishing that right for those who genuinely should be using it.

    This where we differ. It is not simply an individual issue. It is an issue for society in general and how we as individuals make up and contribute to that whole. We all have a social responsibility in my view. Sometimes that means putting our individual preferences to one side to make society better overall
  • Fat_Bottomed_Girl
    Fat_Bottomed_Girl Posts: 354 Member
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    Is it weird that when I read "No Homo?" I opened this thread fully expecting the opening line to include "sapiens"? Not for a second did "gay" cross my mind. I've never heard or read this (yet) and do not understand the need for clarification, unless I ask you on a date, or into my basement.

    -And I thought it was going to be about milk. Lol
  • lloydrt
    lloydrt Posts: 1,121 Member
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    its insecurity..........if a true man is secure with his sexuality, then he doesn't make excuses......he knows

    youre a handsome man and you seem to be in great shape OP......... I m not attracted to you, but that doesn't take from the fact that you look great and seem to be concerned about your physical health.........all pluses for sure..........

    when you get to be my age, you eventually let the small stuff just ride.......... Don't let a few ruin it for you............Lloyd
  • m60kaf
    m60kaf Posts: 421 Member
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    Are the majority of guys on this site so insecure with their sexuality that if they compliment another guy, they have to end the comment with "no homo"? As a gay guy, I find this kind of insulting. As if being gay is something I should be ashamed of and requires a disclaimer. Yes homo.

    Doesn't no homo kinda make it homo

    Like instead of "impressively massive pecs (I notice there in isolation) <full stop>"

    it comes across like "impressively massive pecs - (thoughts become sexual)... oooops insecurities cant compliment without...!!! What will people think) .. "No homo"
  • SeaRunner26
    SeaRunner26 Posts: 5,143 Member
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    why is everyone so obsessed with the gay thing? I always hear they just want to be accepted as equals yet they are constantly throwing s**t like this in everyones faces...everyone gets offended sometimes but most don't constantly have to complain about it...grow up and get some balls and let it run off you!! I am fat have been have been ridiculed for it!!! should I get on here and start a thread about it!!??:explode: :grumble:

    I think it's fair to elevate an issue about an inequality where even in present time you can be executed in other countries for even being perceived as gay. Even in the US, some states still had laws on the books making homosexual relations illegal in the past ten years. Can you say the same about anything you're referencing? Can you now understand why it's a different issue and does need to be recognized, not throwing it in your face?
  • bmiller211
    bmiller211 Posts: 222 Member
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    why is everyone so obsessed with the gay thing? I always hear they just want to be accepted as equals yet they are constantly throwing s**t like this in everyones faces...everyone gets offended sometimes but most don't constantly have to complain about it...grow up and get some balls and let it run off you!! I am fat have been have been ridiculed for it!!! should I get on here and start a thread about it!!??:explode: :grumble:

    There are a few differences. You can't change gay, nor is it a diseased state of the body. One does usually choose to be fat, however, as a result of their chosen activity level and food intake (disease and disability not withstanding.) Obesity has objective negative impacts on society, personal health, and family health. Not that that justifies bullying. There is just a bit of truth to the criticisms of obesity. Trust me, we have plenty of balls. We deal with crap on a daily basis that you couldnt even imagine. Some of us find strength in adversity, and sadly many others never find that strength, as evidenced by the extremely high rate of suicide among LGBT peoples, 2nd only to suicide rates among the elderly in the West. Its a completely different thing.

    Im sure there are plenty of other discussions on here that you don't find relevant to yourself. Do you join those discussions and criticize those people for engaging in a discussion you are not interested in? If you want to know why everyone is 'obsessed with the gay thing' you might consider reading what we are saying.
    in fact you don't have a clue who or what I am...I am 50 married and have at least 3 openly gay friends...I don't think them strange or different because they don't act different...that is my point!!! Don't try to push your sexual preference ...I don't go around saying I am straight to lots of people. Who cares if your gay who cares if you aren't!!
  • zoose
    zoose Posts: 10
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    why is everyone so obsessed with the gay thing? I always hear they just want to be accepted as equals yet they are constantly throwing s**t like this in everyones faces...everyone gets offended sometimes but most don't constantly have to complain about it...grow up and get some balls and let it run off you!! I am fat have been have been ridiculed for it!!! should I get on here and start a thread about it!!??:explode: :grumble:

    There are a few differences. You can't change gay, nor is it a diseased state of the body. One does usually choose to be fat, however, as a result of their chosen activity level and food intake (disease and disability not withstanding.) Obesity has objective negative impacts on society, personal health, and family health. Not that that justifies bullying. There is just a bit of truth to the criticisms of obesity. Trust me, we have plenty of balls. We deal with crap on a daily basis that you couldnt even imagine. Some of us find strength in adversity, and sadly many others never find that strength, as evidenced by the extremely high rate of suicide among LGBT peoples, 2nd only to suicide rates among the elderly in the West. Its a completely different thing.

    Im sure there are plenty of other discussions on here that you don't find relevant to yourself. Do you join those discussions and criticize those people for engaging in a discussion you are not interested in? If you want to know why everyone is 'obsessed with the gay thing' you might consider reading what we are saying.
    in fact you don't have a clue who or what I am...I am 50 married and have at least 3 openly gay friends...I don't think them strange or different because they don't act different...that is my point!!!

    I didnt say anything about who you are. I just tried to explain why comparing being picked on for being a fatty is nowhere near comparable to dealing with homophobia(source: semi-former fatty, and current homosexical). This clearly went over your head. Saying you have homo friends reminds me of when people make the hilarious argument that they arent racist because they have a black friend. Not that Im saying you are homophobic, I just always find that amusing. I would suggest asking your homo friends why we are always 'throwing s**t like this in everyones faces.' As I suggested in my first response, reading the comments on this long *kitten* thread might also serve to enlighten you on the matter.

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