General Comment About People Who Don't Lift

jonnythan

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

EvgeniZyntx

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights.

Without "iron-in-the-gym", yes. Without some sort of strength training? It's very difficult.
Weight training is an efficient tool. Among others.

bcattoes

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

mmapags

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

And how would a person get a firm, fit body without some kind of resistance training, whether it's weights, body weight or yoga? I'm married to a woman who was 5'5" and 115 lbs before she started training and I can assure you that, while she may have been thin, she was anything but fit and firm. How would this undeveloped muscle tissue suddenly get firm?

jonnythan

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

I'll echo the above poster: how do you get a "firm" toned body without heavy resistance work?

mmapags

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

Did you see the part where he also said "or serious bodyweight exercises" ?? Or do you just select out the part you want to argue with and ignore the rest?

bcattoes

And how would a person get a firm, fit body without some kind of resistance training, whether it's weights, body weight or yoga? I'm married to a woman who was 5'5" and 115 lbs before she started training and I can assure you that, while she may have been thin, she was anything but fit and firm. How would this undeveloped muscle tissue suddenly get firm?

With the exception of young adults who have never been overweight and are naturally firm, I wouldn't think it possible. Strenghth training is necessary. I've never suggested otherwise.

bcattoes

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

Did you see the part where he also said "or serious bodyweight exercises" ?? Or do you just select out the part you want to argue with and ignore the rest?

Well again, "serious" is a subjective term. But resistance bands could also do it.

mmapags

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

Did you see the part where he also said "or serious bodyweight exercises" ?? Or do you just select out the part you want to argue with and ignore the rest?

Well again, "serious" is a subjective term. But resistance bands could also do it.

Either you don't pay attention to the details of the posts you disagree with or you like to parse nonsense and argue for it's own sake.

ArroganceInStep

I'll echo the above poster: how do you get a "firm" toned body without heavy resistance work?

Do you consider hiking, rock climbing, swimming, surfing, rowing, running, orienteering, and such to be heavy resistance work?

Depending on goals, people can achieve physiques they desire doing those things and not weight lifting or doing gymnastics. I personally could not (though I enjoy doing those things) but my goals aren't the same as everyone else's.

jonnythan

I'll echo the above poster: how do you get a "firm" toned body without heavy resistance work?

Do you consider hiking, rock climbing, swimming, surfing, rowing, running, orienteering, and such to be heavy resistance work?

Depending on goals, people can achieve physiques they desire doing those things and not weight lifting or doing gymnastics. I personally could not (though I enjoy doing those things) but my goals aren't the same as everyone else's.

They're moderate resistance work.

I have agreed from the beginning that people can achieve physiques they desire by doing things other than lifting. That is a simple fact.

If your goal is to "lose weight and get in shape" then chances that the best way to do that isn't to start orienteering. If you love orienteering then that's great.

The point I've been making since the beginning is that orienteering, treadmills, ellipticals, and surfing will not produce the results lifting will. Going to the gym hours a day and doing random non-lifting stuff won't produce the results most people want in the time that lifting will, if it ever will.

That's the point. Lifting is more effective at producing the results the vast majority of people want than the stuff they currently do (assuming they're not lifting already). If you understand that and still don't want to do it, fine. But don't pretend that your hours on the elliptical with pink dumbbells or doing yoga is going to produce the same kinds of results.

The problem is most people don't understand that, and refuse to accept it. But it's true.

bcattoes

This statement Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises is just simply not true. You are wrong on that point.

I don't think I am.

Looking "toned" requires two things:

1) Low body fat.
2) Enough muscle mass for them to be visible

This is virtually impossible if you don't commit to a serious strength training regimen. Unless you work the muscles hard through lifting heavy, whether that lifting involves bodyweight or iron, it's just not going to happen unless you use steroids or are incredibly gifted genetically.

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights. And you can lift heavy and have too much fat.

I don't know what "firm" really means, so I can't say anything about that. I think "firm" has a lot more to do with skin appearance than anything else and is therefore mostly genetic or a result of tanning, etc. A person only has fatty tissue and muscle to show through the skin.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. I never said you can't have this or that. You keep wanting to read my posts as "you can't look good or toned without lifting barbells" and that's not even remotely what I've been saying. You need to pay attention to what I am actually writing, not what you think I'm writing.

You said Most people don't have "skinnyfat" as a goal, and want to lose weight and end up looking "toned." Very tough to do without lifting or serious bodyweight exercises.

I'm saying (said): That's not true.

It's not tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" without weights. Though, again, I suppose "tough" is subjective. Many would say lifting heavy is "tough", which would make it tough to be fit and not "skinnyfat" with weights.

Did you see the part where he also said "or serious bodyweight exercises" ?? Or do you just select out the part you want to argue with and ignore the rest?

Well again, "serious" is a subjective term. But resistance bands could also do it.

Either you don't pay attention to the details of the posts you disagree with or you like to parse nonsense and argue for it's own sake.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

jonnythan

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

No one has suggested otherwise. Literally no one. Not one single person in this thread said it's impossible to achieve those things without weights. So I guess you're done.

KatLifter

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

Note: No real pictures of them on their profile. Interesting. I'd like to see what toned with no strength training looks like.

mmapags

Either you don't pay attention to the details of the posts you disagree with or you like to parse nonsense and argue for it's own sake.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

I believe that part was conceeded and established some time ago. Do try to keep up. Argueing with points that no one is making appears kind of foolish.

penrbrown

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

No one has suggested otherwise. Literally no one. Not one single person in this thread said it's impossible to achieve those things without weights. So I guess you're done.

Actually... you might want to re-read the thread. I'm pretty sure at least ONE person said something to the effect that lifters just plain look better then non-lifters and I'm pretty sure I saw a hint of; skinny fat is unattractive... but it's been awhile since I read all the posts so I may have misread and/or could be confusing this thread with many others on MFP.

bcattoes

Either you don't pay attention to the details of the posts you disagree with or you like to parse nonsense and argue for it's own sake.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

I believe that part was conceeded and established some time ago. Do try to keep up. Argueing with points that no one is making appears kind of foolish.

Nope, it certainly was not conceeded by everyone in the thread. Throw all the insults you want. All one has to do is read through the replies to see what was suggested.

bcattoes

I'm not sure what you mean, but I argue because strength, health, bone density and a good looking body (naked and in clothes) can be achieved without ever picking up a weight. That has always been my argument, and it always will be. When someone suggests otherwise, I'll argue the point.

Note: No real pictures of them on their profile. Interesting. I'd like to see what toned with no strength training looks like.

If "them" is me, I do strength training. I've said so multiple times.

DonnaNCgirl

Individual results may vary.

We read that all the time. Why? Because it's TRUE. There are so many facets to a fitness program. If you concentrate on one and neglect others, you affect your results. Everything you do affects your results. Just because you copy someone else's program doesn't mean that you will get the same results, no matter whether the person you're copying is an expert in his field or a fellow MFPer.

Nobody is writing a medical journal here. Scattered throughout each and every comment are truths and untruths (isn't some truth relative?). Anyway, once you've made a point 2 or 3 times, it may be time to put up your sign and hope that somebody gets it.

Of course, you're welcome to continue arguing. By the way, the room I'm in has concrete walls and you're welcome to come over and bang your head against any one of them repeatedly. (I say this in jest...mostly).

:drinker:

mmapags

Of course, you're welcome to continue arguing. By the way, the room I'm in has concrete walls and you're welcome to come over and bang your head against any one of them repeatedly. (I say this in jest...mostly).

:drinker:

Most excellent! :drinker:

ChancyW

Don't want to, then don't do it. But, there are lots of great reasons why.

^^ This!

jackieatx

I now love lifting heavy.. but I didn't before, and I would have argued against it simply because I wasn't ready. I don't think there's any reason to hate on women who choose not to or are wary of lifting heavy- if they take fitness seriously enough, they will get there eventually. To each his own in his own time (or hers rather)

ki2myheart

I've been researching strength training and it's benefits for women. I purchased a resisitance band. Is it ok to start there to build up strength and then move on to weights? Is it the same?

DonnaNCgirl

You can try whatever you like. Even at my weakest (and I'm pretty weak), I didn't feel like I was getting what I wanted from the bands. Everyone will have a different opinion. Your results may be different whatever you decide, so although I encourage you to read advice from anyone and everyone, I'd say, "Try it." If you feel like your muscles are being worked sufficiently, keep it up. If you're not getting the results you want, change it up.

Good luck.

bcattoes

I've been researching strength training and it's benefits for women. I purchased a resisitance band. Is it ok to start there to build up strength and then move on to weights? Is it the same?

Yes. You can't do all the same exercises with a band that you can with free weights, but you can build strength. And the extra strength will help when you switch to weights. You can also just start with light weights and go to heavier as you increase strength. If you are doing this at home, resistance bands would probably be less expensive to start, since it's easy to increase weight without buying new bands. If you're going to a gym where a variety of weights are available, then it wouldn't be an issue.

bcattoes

"Toned" is a subjective term, but I see it most often used to mean firm. You can have a fit, firm body without weights.

Without "iron-in-the-gym", yes. Without some sort of strength training? It's very difficult.
Weight training is an efficient tool. Among others.

Agree. 100%

Sweet_Potato

I don't lift -- sorry don't want to, don't enjoy it. I do circuit training and the elliptical. I'm not as lean or as solid as I could be - that's totally cool with me.

The doctor says my bone density is just fine (cause lifting isn't the ONLY way to build strong bones) --- so I see no reason to do something I hate for a figure I don't really want. I am happy being a bit fleshier or what is frequently called skinny fat on the forums.

I don't think lean women are gross -- and women who do lift certainly aren't "bulky" as seems to be the common misconception. It's just not how I see myself.

Same here.

jonnythan

I've been researching strength training and it's benefits for women. I purchased a resisitance band. Is it ok to start there to build up strength and then move on to weights? Is it the same?

Yes.

No, it's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Can you gain some strength using them? Sure. But realize the results from those bands won't be close to what you could get using freeweights.

bcattoes

I've been researching strength training and it's benefits for women. I purchased a resisitance band. Is it ok to start there to build up strength and then move on to weights? Is it the same?

Yes.

No, it's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Can you gain some strength using them? Sure. But realize the results from those bands won't be close to what you could get using freeweights.

Re-read her message. She asked about doing them before switching to weights, not in place of.

jonnythan

Re-read her message. She asked about doing them before switching to weights, not in place of.

I read her message. She asked if it was the same. You said "yes." That is wrong, and I corrected your incorrect information. I gave her the truth - that she could use them, but it's not the same and won't produce a fraction of the results.