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    Protein?? How do I eat less of it

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    Replies

    • Posts: 3,343 Member
      MFP defaults protein levels really low IMO. I wouldn't actively try and go lower, maybe adjust your settings to a different % (up protein, lower fats or carbs)
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
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      Or we can check the thread when i proved both of them wrong, I don't remember the title of it though. We had a debate about this again. If you want to take the alan aragon approach, he recommends things by a dexa scan which is flawed. So that blows that out of the water.

      What makes one person study more credible than another? You can't pick favorites in science.

      I also offer this question to anyone who is talking about higher protein intake. Are they talking from education or experience? I am speaking from both.

      I wouldn't call them scientifically minded. I would call it pick a favorite guru and parrot him.

      Legit request - could you see if you can find that post where you apparently proved everyone wrong. I would love to read it.
    • Posts: 21
      If you are avoiding sugar don't eat too much protein as it does turn to glucose in your blood. I know not many folks here are doing "low carb" but if you are, you shouldn't avoid good fats. You can get energy from fat vs carbs. Not sure that makes any sense...I have to watch and not go over on my protein.
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      You and sidesteel where in it, our last debate, i don't remember the topic, if you do please go get it.

      You have never proved yourself right in any protein debate with me and/or SideSteel so I have no idea what you are talking about - a link would be good.
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      @Sara, just one question. I'll just listen to your answer that's all.

      Why do you think your resources are better than mine? that's all.

      I am not questioning your resources - I am questioning the interpretation and application of them
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
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      Just ignore him, he's MFP's anti-protein troll. The worst part is, even if he was right, he's got no point. If we pretend he's right, and you don't REQUIRE lots of protein to build or maintain muscle, having MORE than the recommended amount is not detrimental. All of the studies that show that a high protein diet will build more muscle, make better gains in the gym, maintain LBM better, etc will even concede that if you eat more than their recommended amount, there are diminishing returns but THERE ARE STILL RETURNS WITH NO NEGATIVES. Read carefully: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129150/ (most recommendations were in the 1.2g-2.2g per kg of body mass, I believe averaging out to 1.8g/kg)

      Long story short, there is no downside to eating lots of protein, barring a rare medical condition. I repeat, there is no reason NOT to consume lots of protein. I recommend at least 1g per lb of lean body mass, personally. Even if you never go in the gym a day in your life, at the bare minimum it will help with satiety which can be PARAMOUNT to most people adhering to their diet.
      The only reason I don't ignore people like him is because I've seen so many sweet not so analytical people end up severely depressed on advice of the close minded.

      Also, from the following link http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/823505-research-on-protien-intake
      1.4-2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is beneficial for individuals engaged in intense exercise:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048505
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19278045
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908291
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500966

      2-3g/kg is beneficial for athletes:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434

      Older subjects lost lean mass getting the RDA protein recommendations (.8g/kg):
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798

      Double the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495538
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16046715

      Triple the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

      Subjects with a 1.5g/kg protein intake lost fat and gained lean mass:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

      Of people that don't exercise, high protien intake causes less lean-mass loss:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299116
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      With you I asked you if you are speaking from experience or education. You said something like you'd never lower your protein intake. Implying you're only speaking from education.

      There is 2 parts to knowledge education and experience. Remember the eat 6x a day thing. People would do it all the time. They did it out of "education" someone told them to do so. Then probably a few guys stopped and said "wow that was a big load of crap."

      I have lowered protein without any issues at all.

      Please stop changing the subject - what thread were you referring to and what does my comment that I probably did make have to do with the topic at hand...you 'proving' you were right?.

      And you should know as well as anyone your assertions in a non -controlled study are meaningless.
    • Posts: 10,161 Member
      http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7

      This should be enough for everyone.

      If you're losing weight, you need more protein. If you exercise vigorously, you need more protein.

      If you're losing weight and exercising vigorously, you need a lot more protein.

      Bottom line is you should be getting at least 1.5 g per kg of bodyweight.
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      Oh here is some really really basic physiology for you guys.

      When we lift the energy comes from glucose, this is what produces the ATP for our lifting. Once we're done, we recover wit glucose. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHERE IS THE PROTEIN???!?!?!?! (cough cough)

      Oh rly?
    • Posts: 27,167 Member
      Oh here is some really really basic physiology for you guys.

      When we lift the energy comes from glucose, this is what produces the ATP for our lifting. Once we're done, we recover wit glucose. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHERE IS THE PROTEIN???!?!?!?! (cough cough)
      If you are avoiding sugar don't eat too much protein as it does turn to glucose in your blood. I know not many folks here are doing "low carb" but if you are, you shouldn't avoid good fats. You can get energy from fat vs carbs. Not sure that makes any sense...I have to watch and not go over on my protein.

      :happy:
    • Posts: 10,161 Member
      Oh here is some really really basic physiology for you guys.

      When we lift the energy comes from glucose, this is what produces the ATP for our lifting. Once we're done, we recover wit glucose. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHERE IS THE PROTEIN???!?!?!?! (cough cough)

      ..... You're kidding, right?

      You know literally nothing whatsoever about human metabolism or metabolic pathways. Seriously. You have no idea.

      I'll give you something to ponder: where does the "glucose" come from in people who following a ketogenic diet?
    • Posts: 2,560 Member
      Actually you can have too much, as with any nutrient, the body gets rid of what it doesn't use. See if you lacking in another nutrient and try and up it.
    • Posts: 432 Member
      If you are avoiding sugar don't eat too much protein as it does turn to glucose in your blood. I know not many folks here are doing "low carb" but if you are, you shouldn't avoid good fats. You can get energy from fat vs carbs. Not sure that makes any sense...I have to watch and not go over on my protein.

      Protein never turns to glucose, carbs become glucose. That is a medical fact!
    • Posts: 8,701 Member
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      Protein never turns to glucose, carbs become glucose. That is a medical fact!

      It's called gluconeogenesis.
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
      Or we can check the thread when i proved both of them wrong, I don't remember the title of it though. We had a debate about this again. If you want to take the alan aragon approach, he recommends things by a dexa scan which is flawed. So that blows that out of the water.

      What makes one person study more credible than another? You can't pick favorites in science.

      I also offer this question to anyone who is talking about higher protein intake. Are they talking from education or experience? I am speaking from both.

      I wouldn't call them scientifically minded. I would call it pick a favorite guru and parrot him.
      I have never seen such a thread. Not that it matters but I do find Sara and Sidesteel more credible then you. They don't tend to botch things up constantly like I see you do (see example of that thread I posted where you constantly made mistakes). That aside, I don't listen to them unless it makes sense. I've questioned Sara many a times and went out and read my own info...and so far...Sara's usually if not always right lol. I always question things though. And I've questioned Sara many times. And the longer period of time that goes by, the more likely I am to look at her response over someone like you. And after reading sidesteels arms...and then looking at his posts lol...everything he said just made sense to me.

      And terrible to admit it but after doing something for an extended period of time people will trust you more if you look the part. Many people will choose the fit personal trainer over the obese one even if the larger one is a whole lot more knowledgeable and sensible. Perhaps why I've met many dumb ones that are doing so well. Sara and Sidesteel are both in incredible shape. They are both in inspirable shape and practice what they preach and can back it up. Not saying looks should have all baring at all...A friend of mine is incredibly intelligent but never practices what he preaches.

      I'm a terrible parrot. How many times did I ignore and question weights and more protein and increasing calories etc etc etc before I actually did it because I didn't have a doubt left. If I took your side my finger nails would probably still be constantly cracking off.

      If someone says something I can find something on google scholar that agrees with them and it makes sense, I'll believe them. Why wouldn't I?
    • Posts: 10,161 Member
      read more carefully we're not talking about gluconeogenesis, read more carefully next time. (Even the gluconeogenesis theory is being challenged just so you're update on research)

      Why people with low glycogen levels suffer wit performance, you thik they can build muscle with crappy performance. think about that one.

      This doesn't even make any sense. You don't know anything about human metabolism, biochemistry, metabolic pathways, or nitrogen balance.
    • Posts: 2,783 Member
      I went to post and saw the list of studies done about protein. When you decrease one macro you increase another macro. That confounds the results. Whose to say that the increase/decrease in other macronutrients didn't affect the results in some way.
      Did they all eat the exact same foods?

      The ADA guidelines have protein set too low. Protein is important for more than just LBM. Amino acids are a critical part of our cellular structure - repair and maintenance. It's used for more than just muscle cells. (And using that info, how the heck can we apply this protein towards energy intake? It's not being used as energy. It's being used as cellular repair and maintenance.

      And if you are avoiding sugar, don't worry about avoiding protein. Your body will make protein from glucose ONLY IF IT NEEDS GLUCOSE at the time it is processing it. We only carry a teaspoon's worth of glucose in the entire blood volume so that isn't much. The brain needs glucose but not 130g a day (it actually runs better on a combo of glucose/ketones). How many times have you heard that if you eat so much protein in one sitting your body will use so much of it and then pee it out (this is why high protein isn't good for "dead" kidneys). What about those calories? We're peeing them out apparently.

      I'm pre-diabetic. I have an impaired glucose tolerance (I've had my DNA analyzed and it's in the genes for me. Unfortunately the healthiest version of the SAD was making me diabetic.

      Since about a third of this nation is overweight and a third is obese then my guess is about a third of this nation won't get fat following the Standard American Diet.

      Eat real food. Eat whole food. When I stopped following the guidelines and started following Primal Blueprint I learned so many things about myself. N=1!!!
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      Here is food for thought, nothing in science is controlled. I told you I don't remember the name of the topic, i asked you what was the last topic we debated on???

      You made the assertion - you provide the link.

      Why on earth would I recall the title if you cannot?
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
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      close minded is not looking it from both angles, i already did the high protein thing, now i am lower. Which angle are you looking at things from? just 1.

      Way to lie on a public form by making made up assumptions. This is why I do not listen to you. I'm doing the higher intake because 1. when I had low protein my hair was falling out and my nails were cracking off. 2. When I upped my protein that stopped. 3. every controlled study I read on it sides with what happened, and not what you extrapolated very poorly from a drug (not protien) study that you seemed to repeatedly manipulate in that thread.
    • Posts: 10,161 Member
      show previous quotes

      Talk is cheap, all you say "that dosn't make sense" anyone can say that... Prove it..

      The studies prove it. Negative nitrogen balance with lower protein levels for people who exercise or are losing weight. End of story.
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      They are more credible than a biochemistry major, NASM CPT(National Academy Of Sports Medicine) who has lost 163lbs? okay.
      You never even questioned me, you don't know what I know.

      Big muscles limit performance in a survival situation, as humans we're designed to survive, so bigger muscles are pointless for humans.

      I train some people who look better than both of them combined, just so you know. Advice listen to both sides and make your conclusion, don't be narrow minded.

      To quote you....
      Talk is cheap,
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
      show previous quotes

      They are more credible than a biochemistry major, NASM CPT(National Academy Of Sports Medicine) who has lost 163lbs? okay.
      You never even questioned me, you don't know what I know.

      Big muscles limit performance in a survival situation, as humans we're designed to survive, so bigger muscles are pointless for humans.

      I train some people who look better than both of them combined, just so you know. Advice listen to both sides and make your conclusion, don't be narrow minded.
      I really doubt that biochem major is you, or is here to argue what you pulled out of your bum. No, I didn't question you, because I don't want to know what you know, because constantly spit out things that make no sense that you are constantly correcting isn't useful to me. And when you're lying and pulling things out of thin air and making assumptions, I don't see the point of questioning you, or trying to know what you know.

      Who said I had big muscles, I have no idea what you are going on with or why you are going on with it lol.

      And I don't doubt that you train people who look better then both of them combined. I feel sorry for those people though.

      I've listened to the advice on both sides, looked up some biology and chemistry, was on the other side of the low protein fence, made a conclusion, benefited from it and showed results and increased my health. I wouldn't call that being narrow minded.
    • Posts: 205 Member
      My RD tells me that we need about 0.8g of protein per 2.2lb of body weight. I get my blood tests at the doctor every 6 months, and so long as my kidney and liver tests come back fine, then having a little over the RDA of protein would not hurt me, as my kidneys will flush it out of my body.

      So, right now I don't worry too much about going over my protein every day. It's hard not too when protein comes in so many forms other than meat. I get so much from my egg whites, milk, beans, not to mention the chicken and fish I eat regularly...
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
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      Talk is cheap, all you say "that dosn't make sense" anyone can say that... Prove it..
      Most people don't waist energy trying to make sense of someone who never makes sense and is constantly messing up and changing his mind on what he said (see link where you changed the study several time). If someone sensible and logical stepped into the form, I'd be happy to listen and argue. Perhaps they could conjure up something that makes sense. Unfortunately, you're not that person.
    • Posts: 1,225 Member
      Here is food for thought, nothing in science is controlled....

      So, the fact that most studies are (clue: Its called 'the control' in the study) has evaded you?
    • Posts: 8,934 Member
      So, is this one of those threads where PU gets has been drinking and argues with everyone or just one of the threads where he just argues with everyone without the drinking part? It's hard to tell the difference.
    • Posts: 6,800 Member
      show previous quotes

      It could have easily be a specific amino acid, which can also be found in non animal sources. Just because you ate protein and your nails got better, doesn't mean it was the protein. Could have been something else within the protein source.
      There you go, see that's an argument that makes sense. Good for you. Except that my protein was from the same sources. Complete protein, mostly chicken.
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      That's why we show with results :-)

      lolwut??
    • Posts: 1,225 Member
      class time, have fun!

      I do hope you are taking a rudimentary science class....
    • Posts: 28,072 Member
      show previous quotes

      I got my results and getting them, are you?

      Ummm...lolz
    This discussion has been closed.

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