Why do so many people think meat is essential? (NOT DEBATE)
Replies
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Ahh ice cream. I do miss it. :P Looking into replacements like soy ice cream and coconut ice cream.
I tried hemp ice-cream the other day...my advice...just don't. I have not tried it but I would imagine coconut is good. I have also tried a nut blend (genuto) - really nice if you can find it, but pricey.
Sarah, you are going to feel sorry for me, but I don't eat dairy ice cream. I have some issues with lactose and milk, so I only eat dairy free ice cream. And I don't miss dairy ice cream at all. "So delicious" is a soy ice cream that is great. Soy ice creams come in a million flavors (turtle trails and pomengranate chocolate chip are my favorites, not including the five million varieties of chocolate). Coconut milk ice cream is my next favorite- but they all have a coconut taste to them.
Personally I'm no fan of rice, hemp, or almond based ice creams. Soy seems to me to be the closest to the real deal and I have developed a taste for it so much so that when I do taste real ice cream, I find i would much rather prefer a soy ice cream at this point. Oh- and soy ice cream has more protein than coconut milk ice cream.
Oh noes!! (((hugs)))
*weeps in your arms*0 -
Yes, Natalie Portman.0
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Some vegetarians I know know how and have the time to manage balanced, varied diets. Others rely on potatoes a lot. But most of us are past discovery (and proselytizing), and stay out of each others' business.
I personally feel tired, low in energy, and hungry when I don't eat meat (but, am also slightly anemic; and, not a little lazy when it comes to meals, lately). Am delighted when I encounter a filling-enough veggie meal (but that's rare. Ha!).
I'll say that I remember being a child and having to overcome disgust to eat meat, though. It all smelled dead.0 -
Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P0
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PROTEIN and IORN in basic!
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Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
I actually use world strength records for this, and since there isn't a single Vegan that holds one, my point is indisputable...but oh, do they try.0 -
Never understood vegetarianism. I don't care if someone else decides to only eat leaves and berries, but as long as you aren't trying to get me to do it, and you're staying healthy, go for it. Had a girlfriend that tried to get me to change the way i live my life. She didn't last long... it wasn't a dietary thing, but along the same lines.
and, an astigmatism is an ocular condition. were you going for 'stigma'?0 -
Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
A bit of a leap from 'looking sickly and dying'. Oh, and you really cannot know any vegetarians who actually strength train seriously or even semi seriously.0 -
Never understood vegetarianism. I don't care if someone else decides to only eat leaves and berries, but as long as you aren't trying to get me to do it, and you're staying healthy, go for it. Had a girlfriend that tried to get me to change the way i live my life. She didn't last long... it wasn't a dietary thing, but along the same lines.
and, an astigmatism is an ocular condition. were you going for 'stigma'?
*sigh* vegetarians do not only eat leaves and berries.0 -
Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
I actually use world strength records for this, and since there isn't a single Vegan that holds one, my point is indisputable...but oh, do they try.
Note again....vegetarian.
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I find it very difficult to get the amount of iron, and b12 that I need to avoid getting anemic with a vegan diet. I simply could not digest the amount of foods to give me enough non heme iron to make up for the more bioavailable heme iron in meat. Other people might not have that trouble.0
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Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
A bit of a leap from 'looking sickly and dying'. Oh, and you really cannot know any vegetarians who actually strength train seriously or even semi seriously.
Pretty much this. Sara and Corvus are two examples of veggies just in this thread who are doing just fine in the strength department. They are both well beyond 'novice' as well.0 -
Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
I actually use world strength records for this, and since there isn't a single Vegan that holds one, my point is indisputable...but oh, do they try.
Note again....vegetarian.
Yes, I know. LoL. I didn't realize exactly where he was going with his previous post before I responded. I just skimmed over it, which I should know better than to do by now. /facedesk0 -
meat is not essential in the Homo sapiens diet, and a carefully planned vegetarian diet can be really healthy.
I agree with people who said that the bad rap that vegetarian diets get comes from people who just cut out meat (or even all animal products) and don't realise they have to replace it with other foods that will provide adequate protein and other nutrients that come from meat/animal products. That fact does not make vegetarian diets unhealthy. What's unhealthy is cutting foods out of the diet without focusing on other ways to get the same nutrients.
what annoys me is when people try to claim that humans don't naturally eat meat, or that we didn't evolve for it.... we did. And notice in my first sentence I wrote "homo sapiens" not "human" - because homo sapiens is the only species of human to have been able to survive on a vegetarian diet, and that's only possible with the invention of agriculture (something no other species managed to do) - i.e. mass production of plants high in protein. While pre-agricultural humans (Homo sapiens and others) would have eaten those plants (including wild wheat where it grew naturally, btw!!), they would not have been available all year round, or in anything approaching the quantities that agriculture can produce, so they could not get adequate protein from plants.
Indians living off a 100% vegetarian diet, well that's only been possible since the start of agriculture (which in India dates back many thousands of years as the Indus valley was one of the first known areas to start practicing agriculture, so they could have been vegetarians comparatively early on, but probably weren't as you have to be very affluent before you start refusing to eat certain foods....). the human ecological niche is adaptability, and Homo sapiens have taken that further than any other species of human, and the fact is we can if desired survive on a plant only diet. But IMO it's a matter of personal preference, I don't believe there is anything wrong with eating meat, provided the animal's suffering is kept to a minimum, i.e. killed quickly, and farmed animals being treated humanely and fed their natural diet.
And I just want to make the point again about affluence... cutting foods out of your diet that you're not allergic/intolerant to is a luxury that affluent people have. Most people from most periods in history and prehistory simply ate what foods were available to them at the time. Many post-agricultural people in history that ate a vegetarian diet did so out of necessity, because it was easier to grow plant proteins than to acquire animals to eat. People in pre-agricultural societes could not possibly gather enough plant protein to not need hunted meat (or to catch fish) as well. Modern people (on the whole) really don't think about how much of their food is imported, and even what it would be like if they could *only* obtain locally grown food, like it was even just 100 years ago. You'd go for most of the year with many kinds of foods unavailable. When my grandparents were small, many fruits we take for granted nowadays were exotic treats barely seen in the UK.
Even with agriculture, without transporting food, you have the harvest season, and you can't store the food all year round. in most parts of the world, without the ability to transport food, being vegetarian is not a choice. And while this does not apply nowadays in affluent countries when you have enough money and access to supermarkets that have all kinds of food all year round, when it comes to making ethical choices, being vegetarian has to be offset against the environmental cost of "food miles".
And you have to be affluent before you even have the luxury of making choices like that to begin with, because most people for most of the time people have existed, have simply eaten whatever was available. Pre-industrial vegetarians where not vegetarian by choice, but by necessity. All pre-agricultural people ate meat and/or fish out of necessity. Choice is the result of affluence.0 -
Of course there are examples of muscular vegetarians/vegans. An individual may even know "many" such examples in their circles... But I can just as easily throw back at you guys that I don't know even one vegetarian/vegan person at two university gyms I train at who has reached even a novice level of strength, but we'd be going in circles :P
A bit of a leap from 'looking sickly and dying'. Oh, and you really cannot know any vegetarians who actually strength train seriously or even semi seriously.
Pretty much this. Sara and Corvus are two examples of veggies just in this thread who are doing just fine in the strength department. They are both well beyond 'novice' as well.
Thank you - into advanced and not far off Elite level now - on a deficit, after less than a year of lifting and at 45 years old. (sorry to be obnoxious - just trying to make a point).0 -
Yes, I know. LoL. I didn't realize exactly where he was going with his previous post before I responded. I just skimmed over it, which I should know better than to do by now. /facedesk
We're good 0 -
Well keep in mind that I'm in my early 20's and having studied at two large universities (by Australian standards) I have met a lot of vegetarians and vegans. They have clubs. So when I say that they mostly look like a bag of bones, I am referring to this population. And again, the majority of them don't look like what I'd call healthy. They also attend a lot of protests
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meat is not essential in the Homo sapiens diet, and a carefully planned vegetarian diet can be really healthy.
I agree with people who said that the bad rap that vegetarian diets get comes from people who just cut out meat (or even all animal products) and don't realise they have to replace it with other foods that will provide adequate protein and other nutrients that come from meat/animal products. That fact does not make vegetarian diets unhealthy. What's unhealthy is cutting foods out of the diet without focusing on other ways to get the same nutrients.
what annoys me is when people try to claim that humans don't naturally eat meat, or that we didn't evolve for it.... we did. And notice in my first sentence I wrote "homo sapiens" not "human" - because homo sapiens is the only species of human to have been able to survive on a vegetarian diet, and that's only possible with the invention of agriculture (something no other species managed to do) - i.e. mass production of plants high in protein. While pre-agricultural humans (Homo sapiens and others) would have eaten those plants (including wild wheat where it grew naturally, btw!!), they would not have been available all year round, or in anything approaching the quantities that agriculture can produce, so they could not get adequate protein from plants.
Indians living off a 100% vegetarian diet, well that's only been possible since the start of agriculture (which in India dates back many thousands of years as the Indus valley was one of the first known areas to start practicing agriculture, so they could have been vegetarians comparatively early on, but probably weren't as you have to be very affluent before you start refusing to eat certain foods....). the human ecological niche is adaptability, and Homo sapiens have taken that further than any other species of human, and the fact is we can if desired survive on a plant only diet. But IMO it's a matter of personal preference, I don't believe there is anything wrong with eating meat, provided the animal's suffering is kept to a minimum, i.e. killed quickly, and farmed animals being treated humanely and fed their natural diet.
And I just want to make the point again about affluence... cutting foods out of your diet that you're not allergic/intolerant to is a luxury that affluent people have. Most people from most periods in history and prehistory simply ate what foods were available to them at the time. Many post-agricultural people in history that ate a vegetarian diet did so out of necessity, because it was easier to grow plant proteins than to acquire animals to eat. People in pre-agricultural societes could not possibly gather enough plant protein to not need hunted meat (or to catch fish) as well. Modern people (on the whole) really don't think about how much of their food is imported, and even what it would be like if they could *only* obtain locally grown food, like it was even just 100 years ago. You'd go for most of the year with many kinds of foods unavailable. When my grandparents were small, many fruits we take for granted nowadays were exotic treats barely seen in the UK.
Even with agriculture, without transporting food, you have the harvest season, and you can't store the food all year round. in most parts of the world, without the ability to transport food, being vegetarian is not a choice. And while this does not apply nowadays in affluent countries when you have enough money and access to supermarkets that have all kinds of food all year round, when it comes to making ethical choices, being vegetarian has to be offset against the environmental cost of "food miles".
And you have to be affluent before you even have the luxury of making choices like that to begin with, because most people for most of the time people have existed, have simply eaten whatever was available. Pre-industrial vegetarians where not vegetarian by choice, but by necessity. All pre-agricultural people ate meat and/or fish out of necessity. Choice is the result of affluence.
You left out the part where most of the 'aggie' societies got their *kitten* handed to them by conquering tribes who consumed a relatively large amount of meat.
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Vegetarianism caused me to be extremely anemic in my teens. So that's why I eat meat. Everyone's body is different, everyone digests food differently, to some meat really is essential to their diet. /shrug0
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Well keep in mind that I'm in my early 20's and having studied at two large universities (by Australian standards) I have met a lot of vegetarians and vegans. They have clubs. So when I say that they mostly look like a bag of bones, I am referring to this population. And again, the majority of them don't look like what I'd call healthy. They also attend a lot of protests
Obviously your population needs feeding up. Protesting student types are not exactly the best example to use for a stereotype of the broader vegetarian/vegan population.0 -
Obviously your population needs feeding up.
You betcha.0 -
Animal products provide vitamin B12 which plant foods don't have unless they are fortify. Vitamin B12 helps to keep the blood cells healthy and it's needed to make DNA. And it also helps prevent anemia. if you a woman and are not eating meat and not taking the vitamin, then it's bad when you are to become pregnant. However, if you are taking vitamins, meat is not essential.
Bread contains B12
You must have missed the part where he said 'unless they are fortified', which most bread is.
Algae isn't. Yeast isn't.
Can you link me a reliable source saying those come naturally with vitamin B12?0 -
I eat meat because I've NEVER found a plant that tastes like BACON.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I eat meat because I've NEVER found a plant that tastes like BACON.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Now bacon was definitely the hardest thing to give up...my mouth still waters when thinking about it, and smelling it cooking is even worse.0 -
We finally got to the root of things. My answer to the OP was "Because BACON".I eat meat because I've NEVER found a plant that tastes like BACON.0 -
No lie, I've never liked bacon. Greasy foods make me feel sick haha0
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I do eat meat but still end up deficient in vitamins if I do not take supplements as effectively not eating maintenance amount of food.
Whether meat eater or not you need to maintain reasonably balanced diet to ensure getting right levels of protein carb and fat.
For all those who have not reached the same level of awareness of this as a vegetarian you will need to.
When I get to ONEderland in ten pounds time may allow myself bacon but I am on a diet at moment.0 -
I eat meat because I've NEVER found a plant that tastes like BACON
WHAT>>>>>>>>
i thought it came from trees :noway: 0 -
As long as you have a good source of protein.. which can be provided by many other sources of food.. you won't have to to consume meat...0
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That attitude either comes from ignorance or shear annoyance and a knee jerk reaction to being preached at by veg*ns.
Of course you can be healthy as a vegetarian.
This.
Some people honestly do not know how to get 120+ grams of protein in their diet without a slab of meat at every meal...
And then there are others (I am guilty of this at times) that seriously want to knock the lights out of vegans who whine at me for killing animals and then proceed to tell me that because I eat them I will be fat, diseased, cancerous, and die a horrible death.
We all need protein, but this can be obtained by eating meat like I do, or by eating meatless like so many others do.
It would just really be nice if one group or the other would get educated and stop bashing each other...0
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