Heavy Lifting defined--MUST READ

contingencyplan

The boards here are full of misinformation concerning "heavy lifting." People see the results that users such as LorinaLynn have had with "heavy lifting" programs and, without any knowledge of what actually constitutes heavy lifting, buy X DVD set that incorporates weights (ChaLEAN Extreme, P90X, Body Beast, Jillian Michaels, Les Mills Pump), thinking that because the weights feel "heavy" to them after enough reps, they are doing the same thing and will get the same results.

Wrong.

For the benefit of those out there who are misinformed, I am here to clear up what exactly constitutes "heavy lifting" programs.

Heavy lifting is a term used to describe linear progression based weightlifting regimens that are loosely based on how powerlifters train. The idea behind them is that if you train first and foremost to for maximum strength gains, the body changes you seek will happen on their own, provided you observe a fairly healthy diet with a caloric deficit. The structure of these programs typically involves working out three days a week (M-W-F for instance) doing full body routines each day. These routines are based around usually only 3 compound exercises per day for 3-5 sets of 5 reps. What that means is that the weight you're using should be so heavy that you can't manage a 6th without "cheating" and compromising form.

The exercises that form these programs are compound exercises, which mean they incorporate many muscle groups, including the core. The "core" exercises for these programs are the squat, the deadlift, the bench press, and the overhead press. The fifth exercise can vary depending on the specific plan you are following (Stronglifts, Starting Strength, etc). You will notice there is no isolation training, which means you don't worry about exercises that focus on a single muscle, such as bicep curls. You will also notice that there are no "splits," meaning you don't work different muscles on different days.

The programs are based on linear progression, which means you push yourself to increase the weight you're using EVERY TIME YOU REPEAT A WORKOUT. For an example, let's use the Stronglifts structure:

Workout A - Squat, Bench Press, Bent-Over Row

Workout B - Squat, Overhead Press, Deadlift.

Mon - Workout A

Wed - Workout B

Fri - Workout A + 5 lbs to every exercise

Mon - Workout B + 5 lbs to every exercise

Wed - Workout A + 5 MORE lbs to every exercise

Fri - Workout B + 5 MORE lbs to every exercise

Get the point? The idea behind "heavy lifting" programs is primarily to see strength gains. As mentioned above, the body recomposition process that will show you the aesthetic results you want happens primarily as a result of the nutrition habits you're observing while undergoing this exercise regimen.

What is NOT a heavy lifting program?

-Anything that has you working in splits (different muscles on different days) (a few notable exceptions here, such as 5/3/1).
-Anything that has you working in rep ranges that exceed 5 reps for most sets
-Anything that has you doing primarily isolation exercises
-Anything that has you doing workouts off of a DVD

Can you do heavy lifting programs at home?

Yes, but it takes converting a whole room into a gym. You WILL need an olympic-style barbell with hundreds of pounds of weight, as your deadlift and squat will exceed 150 lbs fairly quickly. You will need a squat rack or some other apparatus to assist with getting into position for squats (LorinaLynn substituted hack squats instead, which is a great band-aid for those on a budget, but is not AS effective). You will need a bench for bench presses. Dumbbells can be substituted early on for some exercises, but you will eventually progress to a point where you will be struggling to safely grip the dumbbells. This is the reason barbells are preferred, mainly for grip.

Are there any DVDs I can follow for heavy lifting?

You will find that there are instructional DVDs out there, such as the DVD complement to Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength. However, you won't find any that feature follow-along workouts because 95% of the people doing these programs will be doing them out of a gym since they cannot convert a whole room of their house/apartment into a fully featured gym. Also, a follow-along DVD would be a bad idea in general because you would probably be trying to keep your eyes glued to the screen for visual cues which would lead to compromising form. Also, there's simply no point to a DVD that guides you through three exercises per workout. The only resource materials you will find for complete workouts come in the form of books and eBook guides (yes, we still have to read in the 21st century!)

Hopefully this post will stay active so that people can reference it to alleviate the confusion surrounding "heavy lifting" programs that infects these boards.

wellbert

There is much truthiness in this post.

waldo56

Disagree with you totally that working in splits makes it not heavy.

Spending 45 minutes doing singles, doubles, and triples squatting on leg day is most certainly "lifting heavy", and is a good bit heavier than the 5 rep plans that everyone calls heavy.

Upper/lower, push/pull, and lower/upper push/upper pull splits all can very much be heavy, you don't have to be doing full body workouts to count as heavy. Unless you are only focusing on the powerlifts, once past the beginner stage it makes sense to swtich to a split of some kind, as with getting stronger comes longer peak set to peak set and workout to workout recovery times.

contingencyplan

Disagree with you totally that working in splits makes it not heavy.

Spending 45 minutes doing singles, doubles, and triples squatting on leg day is most certainly "lifting heavy", and is a good bit heavier than the 5 rep plans that everyone calls heavy.

Upper/lower, push/pull, and lower/upper push/upper pull splits all can very much be heavy, you don't have to be doing full body workouts to count as heavy. Unless you are only focusing on the powerlifts, once past the beginner stage it makes sense to swtich to a split of some kind, as with getting stronger comes longer peak set to peak set and workout to workout recovery times.

This depends on your goals. People doing it for reasons revolving around functional strength gains or body recomposition should stick with full body even past the beginner stage. The reason people start working in splits is because it is more conducive to mass gains. But that's an entirely different matter altogether as at that point you're no longer training for functional strength gains and you're no longer training for body recomp. It is simply a different type of training entirely with an entirely different set of goals.

JenMc14

I'm with Waldo. I agree with everything in the OP except spllits not being heavy lifting. You can still do the progression mentioned in the OP as well as adding weight every week in a split.

contingencyplan

I'm with Waldo. I agree with everything in the OP except spllits not being heavy lifting. You can still do the progression mentioned in the OP as well as adding weight every week in a split.

Tell me, when working in a split, just how much of that is isolation work? No offense, it's just that heavy, as in orthodox heavy lifting/powerlifting based training is 100% compound. When you work in splits, you DO place a focus on isolation training which is a completely different category of training with a different goal.

chunkmunk

To the OP:

I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

contingencyplan

To the OP:

I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

It depends on what constitutes looking good in a swimsuit. The truth is, if your goal revolves primarily around the way you look, most DVD-based "body transformation" programs will get you there just as well provided you observe a healthy diet and watch calorie intake during the program. What makes these heavy lifting based programs generally more preferable is the functional strength gains you see from them, which are unequaled by the DVD-based programs, as well as the fact that you don't have to work out 5-6 days a week for an hour or more a day. Why do I stress an importance on functional gains? Well, I've always been a car guy. And one thing that bugged me a lot about the car scene after the movie The Fast & The Furious came out was the way people would modify their cars to LOOK like race cars but do minimal engine upgrades. What they ended up with was a car that talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk, so to speak. People who go through these DVD based body transformation programs sort of experience the same thing. Upon completion, they LOOK every bit the part of an athlete. But when asked to perform like their body indicates they could, they come up short. Doing programs such as Stronglifts equate to upgrading the engine along with the outside, so that the body is every bit as capable as it looks it is. Make sense?

bmqbonnie

Meh, I'd also disagree that essentially power lifting is the only lifting heavy there is. I do splits of 8-10 reps with a lot of isolation exercises but do them to failure and increase the weight almost every time I work out. Id' count that as lifting heavy. But to each their own. I'll probably segue my way into stronglifts or whatever sooner than later, but I get a little tired of the "YEAH BRAH IF YOU DO IT ANY OTHER WAY UR DUMB LOL" sentiment that's getting rather common around here.

contingencyplan

Meh, I'd also disagree that essentially power lifting is the only lifting heavy there is. I do splits of 8-10 reps with a lot of isolation exercises but do them to failure and increase the weight almost every time I work out. Id' count that as lifting heavy. But to each their own. I'll probably segue my way into stronglifts or whatever sooner than later, but I get a little tired of the "YEAH BRAH IF YOU DO IT ANY OTHER WAY UR DUMB LOL" sentiment that's getting rather common around here.

The problem is that so many people interpret it differently. The whole reason this post was put up was to inform people that heavy lifting as a workout doesn't mean just working out with a weight that feels heavy to you. It's a very specific type of workout. It means working within specific rep ranges and entirely compounds.

jacksonpt

I generally agree with everything, both the what the OP said and what others have said about splits. IMO, it's very hard to make blanket statements about splits.

I do splits because I need more rest time. I still do them heavy and they are generally compound-ish, so I do consider them heavy lifting and not iso work or high rep. Splits can be done with certain set/reps ranges focused on compound lifts and still fall within what most would consider heavy lifting. Splits don't always have to be 100 bicep curls followed by 100 tricep extensions.

I think to some extent it falls into the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law. Letter of the law may well be full body, compound lifts, 3-4x week. Spirit of the law is heavy *kitten* weight, big movements, do the work and kick some *kitten*.

opalescence

It depends on what constitutes looking good in a swimsuit. The truth is, if your goal revolves primarily around the way you look, most DVD-based "body transformation" programs will get you there just as well provided you observe a healthy diet and watch calorie intake during the program. What makes these heavy lifting based programs generally more preferable is the functional strength gains you see from them, which are unequaled by the DVD-based programs, as well as the fact that you don't have to work out 5-6 days a week for an hour or more a day. Why do I stress an importance on functional gains? Well, I've always been a car guy. And one thing that bugged me a lot about the car scene after the movie The Fast & The Furious came out was the way people would modify their cars to LOOK like race cars but do minimal engine upgrades. What they ended up with was a car that talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk, so to speak. People who go through these DVD based body transformation programs sort of experience the same thing. Upon completion, they LOOK every bit the part of an athlete. But when asked to perform like their body indicates they could, they come up short. Doing programs such as Stronglifts equate to upgrading the engine along with the outside, so that the body is every bit as capable as it looks it is. Make sense?

I really like this analogy bumpity bump bump

skydiveD30571

The problem is that so many people interpret it differently. The whole reason this post was put up was to inform people that heavy lifting as a workout doesn't mean just working out with a weight that feels heavy to you. It's a very specific type of workout. It means working within specific rep ranges and entirely compounds.

You're right, it's up to interpretation. Just because you interpret "heavy lifting" as a specific structured type of compound workout doesn't mean it's correct. I interpret "heavy lifting" as "lifting something that is heavy". The dictionary defines "heavy lifting" as slang for difficult activities at work. Wikipedia defines "heavy lifting" in regards to container transportation. So what makes your interpretation the correct one? Now, if you capitalize it as "Heavy Lifting" then I could see the arguement that it is a structured compound exercise routine.

For the most part on MFP, when someone says people should be "heavy lifting" they are simply refering to high resistance/low reps vs. the mainstream idea of low resistance/high reps. They aren't talking about compound vs. isolation or splits.

bmqbonnie

The problem is that so many people interpret it differently. The whole reason this post was put up was to inform people that heavy lifting as a workout doesn't mean just working out with a weight that feels heavy to you. It's a very specific type of workout. It means working within specific rep ranges and entirely compounds.

You're right, it's up to interpretation. Just because you interpret "heavy lifting" as a specific structured type of compound workout doesn't mean it's correct. I interpret "heavy lifting" as "lifting something that is heavy". The dictionary defines "heavy lifting" as slang for difficult activities at work. Wikipedia defines "heavy lifting" in regards to container transportation. So what makes your interpretation the correct one? Now, if you capitalize it as "Heavy Lifting" then I could see the arguement that it is a structured compound exercise routine.

For the most part on MFP, when someone says people should be "heavy lifting" they are simply refering to high resistance/low reps vs. the mainstream idea of low resistance/high reps. They aren't talking about compound vs. isolation or splits.

yeah, kind of what I'm getting at. I think people are thinking of "heavy lifting" and "power lifting" as synonyms, which IMHO they aren't. You have to lift heavy to power lift, but you don't necessarily have to be power lifting to be lifting heavy.

DavPul

CP, I know you meant well with this post but it's so off base that it's almost unusable. Essentially, only a basic powerlifting program is defined as lifting heavy. Bodypart splits and 8 rep sets aren't heavy? Come on man. I won't pick on you too hard because I know the main point of this post is to tell women doing dvds like Chalean or taking Body Pump classes that 10 lb weights for 20 reps isn't heavy lifting and I completely agree. But that definition is so narrow that almost nothing is.

But it's mfp, where you're doing SS/SL 5x5 or YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

rybo

That's ONE definition. Other definitions do exist

contingencyplan

CP, I know you meant well with this post but it's so off base that it's almost unusable. Essentially, only a basic powerlifting program is defined as lifting heavy. Bodypart splits and 8 rep sets aren't heavy? Come on man. I won't pick on you too hard because I know the main point of this post is to tell women doing dvds like Chalean or taking Body Pump classes that 10 lb weights for 20 reps isn't heavy lifting and I completely agree. But that definition is so narrow that almost nothing is.

But it's mfp, where you're doing SS/SL 5x5 or YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

Nah, I know there's a bunch more programs out there. Most all these programs involve working full body on days. They place bigger emphasis on some body parts than others certain days (like with 5/3/1) but if you look at the actual muscles being hit you'll see that almost every workout is essentially a full body workout, as is the nature with compounds. Regarding the 5-8 rep range, that I can see your point on and will concede. Generally when I used to say 5 reps I meant 5-8. That was how I did it myself (6-8 to be exact). If you reference my posts in the pasts on this matter you'll see I usually just say "single digit rep amounts." For this one I just wanted to use specific numbers because I felt it would help with the nature of the post.

DavPul

To the OP:

I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

IMO if you just want a swimsuit body you still get there quicker with a focused heavy lifting program.

It's like comparing a jet to a greyhound bus. We both start in Los Angeles. I want to go all the way to NYC (bulkytown) and you just want to go to Vegas (swimsuitville). Sure, you're not going the same distance I am, but wouldn't you want to catch the 45 min plane ride instead of a 10 hour bus trip? The weights will get you to where you want to be, wherever that is, much faster.

cHaRlIe0411

Interesting post Thanks for sharing!

Sarauk2sf

Tagging to respond to later

scottdeeby

I agree with most points made. Some suggestions around refining the definition:

Linear: certainly novice lifters will progress linearly. The more trained you are though the longer your training cycles become (i.e. less linear).

Splits: remove this. More advanced lifters require more volume and so doing splits can be a logistical requirement.

Weight: Perhaps simply stating that doing reps of > 80% 1RM is lifting heavy. This implies <= 5 reps.