Heavy Lifting defined--MUST READ

toque88

I like Stronglifts - 5 simple lifts to learn and you're done. I tried the Warrior Dash workout and was in the gym for hours trying to get the workout done and figuring out how to do each lift. Now, I'm in and out of there in 30 - 45 mins (depending on how focused I am). Looking forward to my bodyfat going down from 25% to somewhere around 18%.

llpaq

Awesome Awesome Informative Post! Thank you! I:flowerforyou:

NikoM5

I agree with those who've stated that lifting heavy does NOT require a full body routine. It can and often is used in a split. I didn't read through all five pages here but one big reason for using a split is for recovery. Not everyone's joints can handle full body training 3x/week, mine included. I lift heavy, use a split and I do zero accessory work except for one day that I reserve specifically for that purpose.

Lifting heavy simply means pushing yourself maximally. The key to this is progressive load, ie; lifting more weight, in small increments, over time.

scottdeeby

I haven't read through all of this but I want to provide my opinion - I was always under the impression that "heavy lifting" isn't only for strength gains and to build muscle, but also to maximize a workout by raising the heartrate to levels not reached by just lifting light weights for a bunch of reps.

I don't eat enough (by choice) to support muscle gain, it so happens I'm happy where I am, but I am always challenging myself by lifting weights that make me uncomfortable enough to raise my heartrate. I do change up my routine every 6-8 weeks as well. So far I've kept my weight the same and lowered my body fat to a good 'athletic range' of 17-18%. I also hope to maintain muscle and keep my bones and body strong to avoid some of the onset advanced age issues that can arise in the future. To be exact, I'm lifting heavy to keep in nice shape and in good health.

So I'm not sure why the only reason to lift heavy would be to promote strength gains. I can't imagine that's the case, even if that's what some study shows.

I'm in the same boat at the moment...eating at a calorie deficit to lose weight. But I do a little bit of heavy lifting to signal my body that I still need the muscle so don't shed it. I feel weak as a kitten from the lack of calories, so each day I do a few reps as heavy as I dare, and no more.

contingencyplan

I haven't read through all of this but I want to provide my opinion - I was always under the impression that "heavy lifting" isn't only for strength gains and to build muscle, but also to maximize a workout by raising the heartrate to levels not reached by just lifting light weights for a bunch of reps.

I don't eat enough (by choice) to support muscle gain, it so happens I'm happy where I am, but I am always challenging myself by lifting weights that make me uncomfortable enough to raise my heartrate. I do change up my routine every 6-8 weeks as well. So far I've kept my weight the same and lowered my body fat to a good 'athletic range' of 17-18%. I also hope to maintain muscle and keep my bones and body strong to avoid some of the onset advanced age issues that can arise in the future. To be exact, I'm lifting heavy to keep in nice shape and in good health.

So I'm not sure why the only reason to lift heavy would be to promote strength gains. I can't imagine that's the case, even if that's what some study shows.

I'm in the same boat at the moment...eating at a calorie deficit to lose weight. But I do a little bit of heavy lifting to signal my body that I still need the muscle so don't shed it. I feel weak as a kitten from the lack of calories, so each day I do a few reps as heavy as I dare, and no more.

Shedding bodyfat following a lifting regimen is particularly easy. Won't see the same kind of strength gains you would though if you were eating at a surplus. But you know that

waldo56

This makes me sad because I live in the middle of nowhere without access to a gym or a barbell and plates. I'm limited to what I can do with powerblocks that adjust to 70 pounds each, a bench, and my own body weight. Hopefully, this will be enough to make some progress (and strength gains).

I do bodyweight exercises pretty exclusively. And I don't call it "heavy lifting," thank you very much.

Try to do a pistol squat holding a little pink dumbbell behind your back with both hands.

That little pink DB will become very, very heavy.

It is harder than doing a pistol with 0.5x BW on your shoulders, which is very bit as hard as a back squat with 2x BW.

gxm17

To the OP:

I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

It depends on what constitutes looking good in a swimsuit. The truth is, if your goal revolves primarily around the way you look, most DVD-based "body transformation" programs will get you there just as well provided you observe a healthy diet and watch calorie intake during the program. What makes these heavy lifting based programs generally more preferable is the functional strength gains you see from them, which are unequaled by the DVD-based programs, as well as the fact that you don't have to work out 5-6 days a week for an hour or more a day. Why do I stress an importance on functional gains? Well, I've always been a car guy. And one thing that bugged me a lot about the car scene after the movie The Fast & The Furious came out was the way people would modify their cars to LOOK like race cars but do minimal engine upgrades. What they ended up with was a car that talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk, so to speak. People who go through these DVD based body transformation programs sort of experience the same thing. Upon completion, they LOOK every bit the part of an athlete. But when asked to perform like their body indicates they could, they come up short. Doing programs such as Stronglifts equate to upgrading the engine along with the outside, so that the body is every bit as capable as it looks it is. Make sense?

Your analogy is way off. When asked to *perform* what? Lift something heavy? Run a marathon? Hold firefly pose? Since when is the definition of an athlete restricted to "lifting heavy"? YMMV, but IMO, cardio is essential to helping the body become "every bit as capable as it looks."

Z_I_L_L_A

So can a guy that weighs 250 lbs 6'3" be great at cardio and power lifting. I would love to run a 6 min. mile at my weight.

gxm17

CP, I know you meant well with this post but it's so off base that it's almost unusable. Essentially, only a basic powerlifting program is defined as lifting heavy. Bodypart splits and 8 rep sets aren't heavy? Come on man. I won't pick on you too hard because I know the main point of this post is to tell women doing dvds like Chalean or taking Body Pump classes that 10 lb weights for 20 reps isn't heavy lifting and I completely agree. But that definition is so narrow that almost nothing is.

But it's mfp, where you're doing SS/SL 5x5 or YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

I'm not familiar with Body Pump, but I've done CLX. Perhaps you're just using hyperbole but at no point does the main program use 10 lb. weights for 20 reps. The three strength phases use 6 to 12 reps. And, yes, the program includes exercisers with lighter weights and bands for people who are just beginning or don't have access to heavy equipment. But IIRC, the "advanced" exercisers are using adjustable dumbbells upwards of 50 lbs. with constant encouragement to increase the weight. I think DVD programs can be a great resource for people who don't want to "lift heavy" but want to add a strength training facet to their workout regimen that is challenging without being all consuming.

gxm17

So can a guy that weighs 250 lbs 6'3" be great at cardio and power lifting. I would love to run a 6 min. mile at my weight.

And I'd love to be able to do Firefly Pose.

DavPul

CP, I know you meant well with this post but it's so off base that it's almost unusable. Essentially, only a basic powerlifting program is defined as lifting heavy. Bodypart splits and 8 rep sets aren't heavy? Come on man. I won't pick on you too hard because I know the main point of this post is to tell women doing dvds like Chalean or taking Body Pump classes that 10 lb weights for 20 reps isn't heavy lifting and I completely agree. But that definition is so narrow that almost nothing is.

But it's mfp, where you're doing SS/SL 5x5 or YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

I'm not familiar with Body Pump, but I've done CLX. Perhaps you're just using hyperbole but at no point does the main program use 10 lb. weights for 20 reps. The three strength phases use 6 to 12 reps. And, yes, the program includes exercisers with lighter weights and bands for people who are just beginning or don't have access to heavy equipment. But IIRC, the "advanced" exercisers are using adjustable dumbbells upwards of 50 lbs. with constant encouragement to increase the weight. I think DVD programs can be a great resource for people who don't want to "lift heavy" but want to add a strength training facet to their workout regimen that is challenging without being all consuming.

Two things. One, you may be right in theory about Chalean being adaptable to 50 lb dbs, but do you think that happens in the real world very often? I doubt it. I suspect that most women buy way too light dbs and after a certain length of time graduate to too light dbs.

Second, you say that Chalean is a great program for people that don't wish to lift heavy. Fine. Who's debating this. The OP created this post for people who want to lift heavy but aren't clear on what that actually means. No one is telling them to throw away their dvds, especially if light weights is what they are choosing to do.

obsidianwings

Great post. I was doing New rules of lifting for women, which I guess is heavy lifting, as its compound. I have now moved onto Layne Nortons PHAT program, which is not defined as heavy lifting by those standards, just wondering what this kind of program is classed as then? Is it just lifting?

nokanjaijo

This makes me sad because I live in the middle of nowhere without access to a gym or a barbell and plates. I'm limited to what I can do with powerblocks that adjust to 70 pounds each, a bench, and my own body weight. Hopefully, this will be enough to make some progress (and strength gains).

I do bodyweight exercises pretty exclusively. And I don't call it "heavy lifting," thank you very much.

Try to do a pistol squat holding a little pink dumbbell behind your back with both hands.

That little pink DB will become very, very heavy.

It is harder than doing a pistol with 0.5x BW on your shoulders, which is very bit as hard as a back squat with 2x BW.

I can not do a pistol unassisted. Maybe on a half squat but I am not a fan of those. I like to go all the way down. So, I am still in the doorway, holding the frame when I do my pistols.

Sabine_Stroehm

That's ONE definition. Other definitions do exist

^^THIS^^

I've been doing strength training since about 1996. I've worked with trainers off an on over the years. Whenever possible I lift with my favorite training partner. I always lift heavier and push myself more when he's there to spot me.

Sometimes I've done splits, sometimes I've done full body. It depended on my goal.

BOTH are heavy lifting.

Otherwise, the OPs post is good. It's funny, while doing a bench press today at noon I was actually thinking about "heavy lifting" and how ambiguous it is. It's about as opaque as "eat more to weigh less" (more than...what? 1200?). And why IPOaRM is more helpful. It occurred to me as I glanced around and saw a young woman benching much more than me (inspiring!) and a young very very skinny girl doing squats with those cute little hand weights that couldn't be more than 5LBS.

Defining what is meant by heavy lifting in specific, NON SUBJECTIVE terms is very helpful.

Gwyn1969

Also, linear progression is great for healthy, uninjured young people but not necessarily amazing for those who have NO training history, are older, and/or have taken a few lumps, which is really A LOT more people than you'd think. My view is people should start with very conservative programs, get form DOWN, and get to know their own bodies before testing them too aggressively. Especially if they're coming from a place of sedentariness/ill health.

Disagree. As a strength training novice, linear progression is achievable by anyone who can perform the basic barbell movements (squat, press, bench, deadlift) correctly. Linear progression simply means you add weight every training session. If you are older, or have other training commitments, or are otherwise fragile, you won't add 5-10 pounds per training session. You can add as little as half a pound each session, after starting with the empty bar - or starting with a lighter bar to begin with - and your body will adapt to that weight - and then you add another half a pound.

Eventually a novice will no longer be a novice and move to a progression that only adds weight two times a week instead of three, or adds weight once a week. Different individuals will need more complex programming sooner than others. Linear progression can be done extremely conservatively. All it means is that you are temporarily taking advantage of the novice period, a short lived period where the body can adapt extremely quickly because the weights that are being moved are light.

Sabine_Stroehm

dupe

Gwyn1969

[/quote]For something that complements martial arts training, these types of lifting programs definitely don't work. Look into dumbbell-specific training programs. Kettlebells, sandbags, and bodyweight training are also your friend, ESPECIALLY bodyweight training.[/quote

I've been doing barbell training since 2008 and three different martial arts since 2001 and I heartily disagree. Barbell training has kept me strong, flexible and protected my already difficult knees and back. It's what allows me to keep training the martial arts.

Gwyn1969

For something that complements martial arts training, these types of lifting programs definitely don't work. Look into dumbbell-specific training programs. Kettlebells, sandbags, and bodyweight training are also your friend, ESPECIALLY bodyweight training.

I've been doing barbell training since 2008 and three different martial arts since 2001 and I heartily disagree. Barbell training has kept me strong, flexible and protected my already difficult knees and back. It's what allows me to keep training the martial arts.

helloman42

I completely agree!!
Never have seen so much about training
in one place!

jd7887

bump.