Heavy Lifting defined--MUST READ

contingencyplan

I agree with most points made. Some suggestions around refining the definition:

Linear: certainly novice lifters will progress linearly. The more trained you are though the longer your training cycles become (i.e. less linear).

Splits: remove this. More advanced lifters require more volume and so doing splits can be a logistical requirement.

Weight: Perhaps simply stating that doing reps of > 80% 1RM is lifting heavy. This implies <= 5 reps.

At the advanced level many people do progress to programs using splits, yes. But people at the advanced level don't really need clarification on what does and what doesn't constitute heavy lifting. Anyone who actually NEEDS to read this and would learn anything from it is nowhere near at the level where they start advancing onto programs that are "exceptions" to the rules. This is more of a "this is what it is and where to start" post.

iorahkwano

Glad to feel reassured that what I'm doing is heavy lifting! (Strong Lifts)

sdereski

Thank you for posting this OP. It does make a lot of sense to me, but I also understand what the others are saying.
However, the way you explained it, is the best, clearest explanation I have heard.

BTW - i love your car analogy. :happy: this from the gal doing P90X and cannot do a pull up to save her life!

scottdeeby

I agree with most points made. Some suggestions around refining the definition:

Linear: certainly novice lifters will progress linearly. The more trained you are though the longer your training cycles become (i.e. less linear).

Splits: remove this. More advanced lifters require more volume and so doing splits can be a logistical requirement.

Weight: Perhaps simply stating that doing reps of > 80% 1RM is lifting heavy. This implies <= 5 reps.

At the advanced level many people do progress to programs using splits, yes. But people at the advanced level don't really need clarification on what does and what doesn't constitute heavy lifting. Anyone who actually NEEDS to read this and would learn anything from it is nowhere near at the level where they start advancing onto programs that are "exceptions" to the rules. This is more of a "this is what it is and where to start" post.

I had thought of that....perhaps you could include that in the description so that people like me (not a novice) don't try to look smart by refining the definition 8 )

contingencyplan

I agree with most points made. Some suggestions around refining the definition:

Linear: certainly novice lifters will progress linearly. The more trained you are though the longer your training cycles become (i.e. less linear).

Splits: remove this. More advanced lifters require more volume and so doing splits can be a logistical requirement.

Weight: Perhaps simply stating that doing reps of > 80% 1RM is lifting heavy. This implies <= 5 reps.

At the advanced level many people do progress to programs using splits, yes. But people at the advanced level don't really need clarification on what does and what doesn't constitute heavy lifting. Anyone who actually NEEDS to read this and would learn anything from it is nowhere near at the level where they start advancing onto programs that are "exceptions" to the rules. This is more of a "this is what it is and where to start" post.

I had thought of that....perhaps you could include that in the description so that people like me (not a novice) don't try to look smart by refining the definition 8 )

It won't let me edit the main post anymore as too much time has lapsed. I can only hope people will read a few posts down and see that.

SideSteel

I don't agree with this but DavePul pretty much summed up the reasons why.

I do think it's "mostly" correct, I would just widen the definition. I also think that if your post gets people under a barbell and away from a DVD it's going to do a lot more good than harm for most people, so for that I agree -- I just think this is a bit narrow.

yankeedownsouth

Tagging to follow

tross0924

Nah, I know there's a bunch more programs out there. Most all these programs involve working full body on days. They place bigger emphasis on some body parts than others certain days (like with 5/3/1) but if you look at the actual muscles being hit you'll see that almost every workout is essentially a full body workout, as is the nature with compounds. Regarding the 5-8 rep range, that I can see your point on and will concede. Generally when I used to say 5 reps I meant 5-8. That was how I did it myself (6-8 to be exact). If you reference my posts in the pasts on this matter you'll see I usually just say "single digit rep amounts." For this one I just wanted to use specific numbers because I felt it would help with the nature of the post.

Point of order - 5/3/1 Big But Boring routine is 11 sets of over head press one day, 11 sets of deadlifts another, 11 sets of bench the next, and 11 sets of squats the final workout of the week. Sorry, but that sounds like a split program to me. It's also an advanced program and as you said advanced people don't really need to define heavy lifting.

LolBroScience

Nah, I know there's a bunch more programs out there. Most all these programs involve working full body on days. They place bigger emphasis on some body parts than others certain days (like with 5/3/1) but if you look at the actual muscles being hit you'll see that almost every workout is essentially a full body workout, as is the nature with compounds. Regarding the 5-8 rep range, that I can see your point on and will concede. Generally when I used to say 5 reps I meant 5-8. That was how I did it myself (6-8 to be exact). If you reference my posts in the pasts on this matter you'll see I usually just say "single digit rep amounts." For this one I just wanted to use specific numbers because I felt it would help with the nature of the post.

Point of order - 5/3/1 Big But Boring routine is 11 sets of over head press one day, 11 sets of deadlifts another, 11 sets of bench the next, and 11 sets of squats the final workout of the week. Sorry, but that sounds like a split program to me. It's also an advanced program and as you said advanced people don't really need to define heavy lifting.

I approve of this statement

AlongCame_Molly

bump for later

cwolfman13

Meh, I'd also disagree that essentially power lifting is the only lifting heavy there is. I do splits of 8-10 reps with a lot of isolation exercises but do them to failure and increase the weight almost every time I work out. Id' count that as lifting heavy. But to each their own. I'll probably segue my way into stronglifts or whatever sooner than later, but I get a little tired of the "YEAH BRAH IF YOU DO IT ANY OTHER WAY UR DUMB LOL" sentiment that's getting rather common around here.

I don't think he was saying it was the only kind of lifting. Different kinds of lifting and routines produce different results. "Lifting heavy" is generally synonymous with progressive, functional strength training programs like SS and SL...where the emphasis is on functional strength gains, not necessarily hypertrophy or physique (though those things are greatly improved with functional strength training programs).

Conversely, a body builder may use a basic heavy lifting routine as the core of their workout, but they're going to spend a lot of time working specific muscles in isolation with lower weight and higher reps (8-12) for hypertrophy...but they're not going to make the same strength gains.

Yet another example would be circuit type training like P90X or similar which doesn't involve a lot of heavy lifting and pulling, but working muscles to exhaustion with body weight or lighter weights, increasing muscular endurance with some, but minimal strength gains and minimal hypertrophy.

All means to different ends...all involve some sort of lifting, with heavy being a relative term. I would imagine as one becomes more advanced, it would be necessary to incorporate different types of lifting to continue progression. Though I would generally agree that body building and circuit style training do not constitute "lifting heavy" as it is generally used in reference to a full body, compound, functional strength routine. I've known this to be "lifting heavy" long before MFP and as far back as high school and training for football.

Ge0rgiana

Bravo, sir.

xMonroeMisfit

bump

CallMeCupcakeDammit

To the OP:

I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

IMO if you just want a swimsuit body you still get there quicker with a focused heavy lifting program.

It's like comparing a jet to a greyhound bus. We both start in Los Angeles. I want to go all the way to NYC (bulkytown) and you just want to go to Vegas (swimsuitville). Sure, you're not going the same distance I am, but wouldn't you want to catch the 45 min plane ride instead of a 10 hour bus trip? The weights will get you to where you want to be, wherever that is, much faster.

I love this analogy!

eric_sg61

The strongest powerlifters started their cycles at 8-10 reps, didn't do full body routines, did high rep isolation work and rarely trained to failure or missed reps.

LorinaLynn

:blushing: I'm feeling a little verklempt at being the poster child for women heavy lifting.

And I'm obviously watching too much Fran Drescher on TV Land if I'm using words like verklempt. :bigsmile:

Cr01502

bump

FireballStrike

Tagging for later review with He Who Coaches.

taylorwaylor

bump

JenMc14

I'm with Waldo. I agree with everything in the OP except spllits not being heavy lifting. You can still do the progression mentioned in the OP as well as adding weight every week in a split.

Tell me, when working in a split, just how much of that is isolation work? No offense, it's just that heavy, as in orthodox heavy lifting/powerlifting based training is 100% compound. When you work in splits, you DO place a focus on isolation training which is a completely different category of training with a different goal.

My last split (I just started Madcow's 5x5) was pretty much all compound lifts. 2 days a week bench, overhead press and bent over rows, two days of squats and deadlifts. If I felt like it, I might've thrown in shrugs or flys or calf raises, but I wasn't doing bicep curls or anything. My husband's sole focus is to gain strength, and his lifts go up quite often, and he does a 5 day split. I consider him a heavy lifter since he's using weights upwards of 400 (I think he can deadlift over 500) pounds on his big lifts. Yeah, he does isolation work, but he also does big, compound lifts. I guess we're just calling different things "heavy" because, at least in the case of my husband, looking at the ginormous amounts of weights he's lifting, and for me, I'm looking at the fact that, while the number is relatively small, I am working really, really hard, and pushing to failure in a low number of reps.