Meat & non-eat meaters (READ ME)

Wade406

Because I raise my own pastured chickens and I eat them. I raise heritage breed Dominiques. They are naturally breeding, and I'm always going to have excess roosters. Always. I only need one rooster for every five to six hens to have maximum fertility. It's not really possible to rehome boys. Everyone wants girls for the eggs, but no one wants a bunch of roosters around that are going to fight. I kill them myself as humanely as possible. I know what they've had to eat their entire lives, I know where they've lived. I take responsibility for feeding myself and my family, and I feel good knowing that our food is clean. When we eat other meat, I buy from local farmers that I know and I approve of their standards.

I am always baffled by the phrase "humane killing".

I'm always baffled by people that think if they stop eating meat it will stop the inhumane treatment of animals on factory farms instead of actively trying to change it.

I am really confused by this comment.

Is your point that we should just eat meat because it won't put a stop to animal cruelty?

That seems like pretty broken logic...

If your point is that you think no one should be a vegetarian without waging some active war against animal cruelty, you still don't make any sense to me. People do what they can and shouldnt' be expected to give every last ounce they have for what they can do to be considered an effort.

Weirdness.

Thank you. Love this response.

Wade406

Except for the causal link between dietary cholesterol raising serum cholesterol. And elevated serum cholesterol causing atherosclerosis. So yeah, if you are happy with having a little atherosclerosis, eat cholesterol. If you don't want the condition/disease, eliminate it from your diet. Everyone has the choice.

But don't argue that consuming animal products doesn't contribute towards atherosclerosis, because you're deluding yourself.

If eliminating all cholesterol from your diet would ensure not having the condition/disease, that would be one thing. But, alas, it can still come about even if you don't eat cholesterol. You can, perhaps, lower your risk... but new research is suggesting that causal link between consuming dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is not as dire as originally thought. I don't know whether the old research or the new research is more correct, but I'm pretty sure that you don't either. Choosing to eat less or no meat to be on the safe side is cool, and I get that, but your post came across as being well beyond the safe side, on over into the radical area.

You better look at www.heartattackproof.com. Caldwell Esselstyn, who was head of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic (where heart bypass surgery was invented) and a former surgeon, presents "irrefutable evidence that all CHD can be prevented", or words to that effect. I'm not claiming that you can completely avoid heart disease. Caldwell Esselstyn is. I'm just an idiot wasting some time on a pathetic forum. Dr Esselstyn is the expert with the expert opinion.

zillah73

Because I raise my own pastured chickens and I eat them. I raise heritage breed Dominiques. They are naturally breeding, and I'm always going to have excess roosters. Always. I only need one rooster for every five to six hens to have maximum fertility. It's not really possible to rehome boys. Everyone wants girls for the eggs, but no one wants a bunch of roosters around that are going to fight. I kill them myself as humanely as possible. I know what they've had to eat their entire lives, I know where they've lived. I take responsibility for feeding myself and my family, and I feel good knowing that our food is clean. When we eat other meat, I buy from local farmers that I know and I approve of their standards.

I am always baffled by the phrase "humane killing".

I'm always baffled by people that think if they stop eating meat it will stop the inhumane treatment of animals on factory farms instead of actively trying to change it.

I am really confused by this comment.

Is your point that we should just eat meat because it won't put a stop to animal cruelty?

That seems like pretty broken logic...

If your point is that you think no one should be a vegetarian without waging some active war against animal cruelty, you still don't make any sense to me. People do what they can and shouldnt' be expected to give every last ounce they have for what they can do to be considered an effort.

Weirdness.

Thank you. Plus, sometimes the loudest things you can say in our culture are the things you say with your dollars. Not purchasing meat/animal products IS a form of activism.

ashleab37

Why not substitute your veggie burger for meat? It's natural, full of protein, and DELICIOUS!!

Wade406

It should also be noted that the average meat consumption of the entire US population has gone down on a per capita basis. Less demand reduces supply. We are having a cumulative impact.

wikitbikit

You better look at www.heartattackproof.com. Caldwell Esselstyn, who was head of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic (where heart bypass surgery was invented) and a former surgeon, presents "irrefutable evidence that all CHD can be prevented", or words to that effect. I'm not claiming that you can completely avoid heart disease. Caldwell Esselstyn is. I'm just an idiot wasting some time on a pathetic forum. Dr Esselstyn is the expert with the expert opinion.

Ok, I bit and took a look.

It appears to be based on 17 compliant patients.

I didn't dive too far into the sales site to see how many patients there were originally, nor what exactly caused a patient to be deemed non-compliant. I will say that it's certainly good news for those 17 individuals though.

Additionally, I sincerely doubt you're an idiot, but I do think you are something of a true believer. Which, you know, is cool and all, but is sometimes hard for those of us with a little skepticism running through our blood to take.

Maybe cholesterol causes skepticism! Hehe.

FredDoyle

Maybe cholesterol causes skepticism! Hehe.

Snort :laugh:

Sqeekyjojo

Except for the causal link between dietary cholesterol raising serum cholesterol. And elevated serum cholesterol causing atherosclerosis. So yeah, if you are happy with having a little atherosclerosis, eat cholesterol. If you don't want the condition/disease, eliminate it from your diet. Everyone has the choice.

But don't argue that consuming animal products doesn't contribute towards atherosclerosis, because you're deluding yourself.

If eliminating all cholesterol from your diet would ensure not having the condition/disease, that would be one thing. But, alas, it can still come about even if you don't eat cholesterol. You can, perhaps, lower your risk... but new research is suggesting that causal link between consuming dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is not as dire as originally thought. I don't know whether the old research or the new research is more correct, but I'm pretty sure that you don't either. Choosing to eat less or no meat to be on the safe side is cool, and I get that, but your post came across as being well beyond the safe side, on over into the radical area.

You better look at www.heartattackproof.com. Caldwell Esselstyn, who was head of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic (where heart bypass surgery was invented) and a former surgeon, presents "irrefutable evidence that all CHD can be prevented", or words to that effect. I'm not claiming that you can completely avoid heart disease. Caldwell Esselstyn is. I'm just an idiot wasting some time on a pathetic forum. Dr Esselstyn is the expert with the expert opinion.

Can the esteemed experts of this thread explain exactly why my non drinking, non smoking, vegan ex has it then? And how he can improve his diet in order to cure himself when he already consumes zero animal products? Considering there are no inherited high cholesterol genetic markers anywhere in his family or himself?

The logic of the argument is that ALL CHD can be prevented. The existence of one person - my ex - who has got it - disproves the entire argument.

Who'da thunk it? My ratbag ex being such a special snowflake that he alone disproved one fruitbat theory that he would love to be true.

That_Girl

Vegetarianism should be clean, not pumped with chemicals.

apparently I have been failing at vegetarianism for 18 years now! I should just go get a tbone and make sure i eat something clean!

Yea, because that is EXACTLY what I said. Duh.

redraidergirl2009

Except for the causal link between dietary cholesterol raising serum cholesterol. And elevated serum cholesterol causing atherosclerosis. So yeah, if you are happy with having a little atherosclerosis, eat cholesterol. If you don't want the condition/disease, eliminate it from your diet. Everyone has the choice.

But don't argue that consuming animal products doesn't contribute towards atherosclerosis, because you're deluding yourself.

If eliminating all cholesterol from your diet would ensure not having the condition/disease, that would be one thing. But, alas, it can still come about even if you don't eat cholesterol. You can, perhaps, lower your risk... but new research is suggesting that causal link between consuming dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is not as dire as originally thought. I don't know whether the old research or the new research is more correct, but I'm pretty sure that you don't either. Choosing to eat less or no meat to be on the safe side is cool, and I get that, but your post came across as being well beyond the safe side, on over into the radical area.

You better look at www.heartattackproof.com. Caldwell Esselstyn, who was head of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic (where heart bypass surgery was invented) and a former surgeon, presents "irrefutable evidence that all CHD can be prevented", or words to that effect. I'm not claiming that you can completely avoid heart disease. Caldwell Esselstyn is. I'm just an idiot wasting some time on a pathetic forum. Dr Esselstyn is the expert with the expert opinion.

Can the esteemed experts of this thread explain exactly why my non drinking, non smoking, vegan ex has it then? And how he can improve his diet in order to cure himself when he already consumes zero animal products? Considering there are no inherited high cholesterol genetic markers anywhere in his family or himself?

The logic of the argument is that ALL CHD can be prevented. The existence of one person - my ex - who has got it - disproves the entire argument.

Who'da thunk it? My ratbag ex being such a special snowflake that he alone disproved one fruitbat theory that he would love to be true.

Theres this little thing called heredity, I know cholesterol can be affected by it. To what extent I don't know, but diet isn't always a cure all for everything. Vegan, Paleo, whatever type of diet, it will not always cure all illness. Can diets that cut out or reduce certain foods aid in prevention of some diseases, sure.

AlanTuring

Oh no, I can't pronounce a naturally occurring compound, it must be a chemical and bad for you, a bloo bloo bloo.

jenilla1

I eat vegan a few days each week (vegan because I can't eat eggs or dairy for digestive reasons) and the rest of the time I eat fish or birds - no red meat or pork. On the nights I go meatless, why would I replace the meat with a meat substitute? I don't like faux food. There are enough yummy non-meat things to eat without adding a bunch of wierd stuff to my plate. If I wanted to eat meat I would eat it. I don't want fake meat. On meatless days I enjoy whole grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. And I cook those healthy foods from scratch into delicious meals. No need for factory meals here. :drinker:

wikitbikit

Can the esteemed experts of this thread explain exactly why my non drinking, non smoking, vegan ex has it then? And how he can improve his diet in order to cure himself when he already consumes zero animal products? Considering there are no inherited high cholesterol genetic markers anywhere in his family or himself?

The logic of the argument is that ALL CHD can be prevented. The existence of one person - my ex - who has got it - disproves the entire argument.

Who'da thunk it? My ratbag ex being such a special snowflake that he alone disproved one fruitbat theory that he would love to be true.

It would appear that it will all go away if he also cuts out the use of oils entirely. Plus rarely (if ever) eating nuts, avocados, sugar (unless it comes from a whole fruit; juicing or blending will make it lethal.. also, fructose is the devil (although I thought that was the prevalent form in fruit?)), soy, and no coffee with caffeine. According to Dr. Caldwell B. Esselsty, at any rate. He will be CURED!! If he is still consuming any of those items, he is doomed to die just like the rest of us.

Hey... wait a minute...

edit: Information above is gleaned from the Q&A on the heartattackprooof.com site. It is not necessarily an exhaustive list of the things your ratbag ex must do in order to live a long, healthy, ratbag life, as I have not read the actual book.

AlanTuring

I eat vegan a few days each week (vegan because I can't eat eggs or dairy for digestive reasons) and the rest of the time I eat fish or birds - no red meat or pork. On the nights I go meatless, why would I replace the meat with a meat substitute? I don't like faux food. There are enough yummy non-meat things to eat without adding a bunch of wierd stuff to my plate. If I wanted to eat meat I would eat it. I don't want fake meat. On meatless days I enjoy whole grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. And I cook those healthy foods from scratch into delicious meals. No need for factory meals here. :drinker:

I mostly eat chemical-filled factory foods to avoid becoming this smug.

LadyBeryl

Boca vegetarian burgers are also very delicious, and cheap.

I prefer this but I've purchased Morning Star as well.

CoachReddy

I eat vegan a few days each week (vegan because I can't eat eggs or dairy for digestive reasons) and the rest of the time I eat fish or birds - no red meat or pork. On the nights I go meatless, why would I replace the meat with a meat substitute? I don't like faux food. There are enough yummy non-meat things to eat without adding a bunch of wierd stuff to my plate. If I wanted to eat meat I would eat it. I don't want fake meat. On meatless days I enjoy whole grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. And I cook those healthy foods from scratch into delicious meals. No need for factory meals here. :drinker:

I mostly eat chemical-filled factory foods to avoid becoming this smug.

and how's that working out for you?

erika0430

Ground Turkey make your own burger

Mr_Bad_Example

I'm sure most all of you have heard of Morning Star foods.
Why not substitute?
On a night you're going to have burgers, why not have a vege burger? They are so delicious.
Chicken nuggets, why not Morning Stars?
So much less fat, no grease, all entirely healthy & delicious.

Why don't I substitute? Because I like regular burgers and nuggets. Meat is not evil.

AlanTuring

I eat vegan a few days each week (vegan because I can't eat eggs or dairy for digestive reasons) and the rest of the time I eat fish or birds - no red meat or pork. On the nights I go meatless, why would I replace the meat with a meat substitute? I don't like faux food. There are enough yummy non-meat things to eat without adding a bunch of wierd stuff to my plate. If I wanted to eat meat I would eat it. I don't want fake meat. On meatless days I enjoy whole grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. And I cook those healthy foods from scratch into delicious meals. No need for factory meals here. :drinker:

I mostly eat chemical-filled factory foods to avoid becoming this smug.

and how's that working out for you?

Pretty well! My lack of smugness is pretty awesome, and makes me way better than other peop...

Aww, man.

CoachReddy

I'm sure most all of you have heard of Morning Star foods.
Why not substitute?
On a night you're going to have burgers, why not have a vege burger? They are so delicious.
Chicken nuggets, why not Morning Stars?
So much less fat, no grease, all entirely healthy & delicious.

Why don't I substitute? Because I like regular burgers and nuggets. Meat is not evil.

you've got a loose interpretation of meat. :P